This is a place for general discussion about the books. I like to keep my books PG-13 (well maybe R with some of the gore) so if you could keep that the same here I would greatly appreciate it.
This is a place for general discussion about the books. I like to keep my books PG-13 (well maybe R with some of the gore) so if you could keep that the same here I would greatly appreciate it.
162 thoughts on “General Discussion”
Additional inquiry regarding naming conventions; how are Homes named? I remember Arraca, and Nerraca were related, but what would Big Sal’s daughter-ship have been named, had it been able to expand, or when, if a sailing home like her is built again?
That’s a good question and one that may soon be answered, (Taylor cryptically said).
Did the Alliance have a naming convention planned for their airships? I’m thinking that once they invent or receive radar, they’ll use airships as picket ships, AEW airships. Their endurance and range would make it very useful for establishing rescue ops, considering the hostile seas, as well as rescuing new arrivals. I’d wager the Lemurians, considering how empathetic they are, would immediately establish some sort of rescue corps specifically for finding these sorts of people. That’s beside the point; I had an idea for a story in the future of this universe, and the Alliance has craft like N-class airships, with big radars. Would they name these airships, or use letters and numbers as the real US Navy did? They wouldn’t be for cargo, they’d be big but they wouldn’t be Hindenburg or Akron sized
I didn’t know where else to post this, so forgive me if I have not properly followed etiquette: here’s a fanfiction I wrote on Destroyermen
It’s about the development of a space program in the Destroyermen world, or at least the beginnings of one.
Wonderful Owain really liked it
Sorry I am just now getting around to answering this. My old website clearly stated we couldn’t do fan fiction here. I only just realized that admonition isn’t present on this one. Still can’t allow it in future. It’s not that I’m personally against it or trying to be a jerk, it is simply due to our litigious society and my publisher doesn’t want to take any chances. There really are people out there who would sue me (and them) for swiping their idea if I ever wrote something similar–whether I ever actually read it or not. For that reason, as much as I would LIKE to read what you wrote, I cannot.
I could just say “post links to it here” but that would still make it hard for me to say I never read it. Better to be safe. I think people have posted some fan fiction over on the Destroyermen Fan Association facebook page and you might yry that. Thats the only reason I’m not a member over there.
Again, no offense, and I’m actually flattered by the notion of fan fiction, but as long as I may, (very soon), rejoin a few of my D-men characters–hint-hint–I can’t take a chance on even accidentally reading anything that might happen to them that was written by someone else.
Anybody has a visual rendition of a mountain fish?
Ah, understood! I’ve been crossposting the links on the reddit anyway. Is that acceptable?
Been a while since I was here. Survived Covid. now to find the book.
Just started reading the Destroyermen books, having had my attention attracted by the Artillerymen books — enjoying the stories, but my suspension of disbelief is getting seriously battered here. I can’t believe the US Navy of 1942 was that different from the US Navy of 1982, so are these errors by the author or details he’s inserting to emphasise that our heroes aren’t from our world? Petty officers being referred to as noncoms, or being addressed as, eg, “Torpedoman Chapelle” or “Machinist’s Mate Laney”? Worse yet, a petty officer being addressed (by an officer!) as “Mister Silva”? Blueshirts calling chiefs by their first names? The CO addressing a seaman (Reynolds) as “Mister”??
We’re talkin’ a whole different sector of the multiverse here. That includes the perceptual/thinking processes of the protagonists. We are so lucky to be able to look into their perceptual/thinking and subsequent behavior w/out having our subjective reality so distorted that we come to believe that their multiverse melds w/ours. Well, at least for some of us… 😉
Based on period films from the 1940’s and 50’s I’ve seen the use of grade would be, as I understand it, correct. Mister can be used, again as I understIand it, for seaman or PO’s in certain specific conversations. It’s not a sign of respect it’s to put the fear of God into you as you would be called mister if you where in deep trouble.
I know the American navy have different traditions to The Royal Navy etc. but there are certain comminalities as well and changes can come into place, also there would some differences based on the way things worked in the Asiatic Fleet in the inter war years.
We do assume that the Americans who crossed over did come from our world or one very close to ours were Walker and her sister were still active so all standard ways of doing thing would be the same so I always assumed Taylor based everything from actual real world examples.
Any other views or counter points on this as the devil they say is in the details
Being an Airforce man, myself, I can’t address the details of your critique. However, I took some of the lack of formality you mentioned as being part of the Asiatic Fleet culture. This is mentioned by the author numerous times. I don’t personally think it was meant to subtly hint the Walker came from a different universe than “ours”; that’s pretty much a given.
In my Navy life of over 40 years, being born on base and serving myself, Chiefs are called MR often and Rated men are fallen by their rating not pay grade.
I was Corpsman or MR to many even as I took off the crow and pinned anchors.
21+ years active duty, and I never heard an enlisted man called “Mister”. If on watch, they were addressed or referred to by their watchstation (“RMOW”, Chief of the Watch”, “Helm”, &c). Otherwise, it was always “Petty Officer”, “Chief”, or other appropriate term — eg, “Petty Officer Smith” or “Fireman Jones”. Not once did I ever hear anything like “Machinist’s Mate Brown”, “Quartermaster White” or “Storekeeper Davis”. And I was in submarines, where relationships were much more relaxed than in the surface fleet.
Apparently, per the Instapundit, eye-blinks from ‘cats’ really ARE a form of communication —
Scientists Confirm You Can Communicate With Your Cat by Blinking Very Slowly. The link is at Instapundit (8:00 pm today). I’m not sure I can embed a link here without blowing up a server or getting booted.
Just finished the latest book. I’m glad Isidra got rescued, and I hope someone gets those engineers in the bilges something to eat! I wish I could find photos of the gun mounts mentioned in the last few pages on the steamer. Heck, I wish I could find photos of something like the Isidra!
I’m also waiting for the captives sold into slavery to come into play. The way it was mentioned they were hard to get a handle on made me think this’ll happen. And the themes regarding slavery especially might play into this.
I’m guessing there’s going to be something the Impies will do that will upset the Americans especially in regards to slavery. Oh… nightmare? Some of Tiger’s surviving former passengers escape into Imperial hands, think they’re safe, then get turned back over to the Doms. The Americans might start to realize, “Oh, maybe we should get rid of this whole slavery thing”
Something to think about; the rule of who qualified as black and who didn’t was *extremely* elastic in that period. Even if you were white, happened to have curly hair and didn’t have someone to vouch for you in a two-mile radius, even in free states, you could get dragged off as a slave. For a research project I found an entire catalog of escaped slave posters that listed things like “can pass as white”, “fair-haired”, “will pretend to be free”. One I think was “light-skinned n**** with flaxen hair”. That’s blonde, white, and possibly blue eyed. If they found anyone in your family tree who was black, no matter how many generations back, depending on the state, you would be considered black. Under things like the One Drop Rule, and nonsense like that, I could see some of the American soldiers qualified as black by various slave state laws, and claimed Cuban or other ancestry to escape, something that was done historically…
Hey, is that one of Hahessy’s issues? I wonder if he was briefly enslaved. Not for being Cuban or anything, just randomly hauled in because his hair was a bit curly.
As a side note, I wonder if that collier in Blood in the Water might show up in an epilogue of some kind, given its location…or was that just a reference to the USS Cyclops?
” Heck, I wish I could find photos of something like the Isidra!”
Well, she was stated to be a small Mexican paddle wheel steamer, captured & commissioned into USN early in the Mexican-American War. I suppose, she was about 200-300 tons and looks like USS “Iris” (the 1847 one).
“I’m guessing there’s going to be something the Impies will do that will upset the Americans especially in regards to slavery. Oh… nightmare? Some of Tiger’s surviving former passengers escape into Imperial hands, think they’re safe, then get turned back over to the Doms. The Americans might start to realize, “Oh, maybe we should get rid of this whole slavery thing””
I rather doubt that Impies would turn any escapees back to the Dom’s without any kind of Very Compelling Reason. The Company would cleary fight tooth and claw against any such proposal (I remind you, that originally the Honorable New Britain Company was extremely hostile to Dominion).
My pure speculation on this matter: the 1847s Americans may try to persuade Empire to join their fight against the Dominion, but Emperor-Governor decided instead to make a deal with Dom’s, figuring out that Americans is not likely to win at the end, but they would damage Dominion enough, that it wouldn’t be a treat for a long time. After such action, the Americans concluded that Empire is not trustworthy (and since Empire have no clue about NUS, they probably assumed that Americans perished fighting Dom’s).
“Something to think about; the rule of who qualified as black and who didn’t was *extremely* elastic in that period. Even if you were white, happened to have curly hair and didn’t have someone to vouch for you in a two-mile radius, even in free states, you could get dragged off as a slave.”
Well, considering the specific situation and contact with non-human sapient species like Griks and Lemurians, I really doubt that anyone would be bothered much about race…
“As a side note, I wonder if that collier in Blood in the Water might show up in an epilogue of some kind, given its location…or was that just a reference to the USS Cyclops?”
Yep it is)
Doesn’t the British Imperials have an on-going trade relationship with the Dominion prior to the arrival of the Americans? Assuming for the moment that the Impies have any desire to treat with the NUS (other rather recognizing them as new arrivals, and “best of luck you poor sods”), there’s nothing to gain in playing them against the Doms, at least early on, and lots of reasons to avoid ruffling Dom feathers. The trade is apparently signifiant from the clues we had in the previous series, so the Impies and the Company want that to continue. I should think that the Impies would watch as carefully as they can, given the difficulties in getting agents into the area, and otherwise avoid taking any sides.
They did, mostly buying females to help their own demography and workforce supply (and also to save a lot of women from Dom’s sacrifices – one reason, why the Company rise to such power, is because its personnel feel themselves as true saviors, helping to save innocent lives… even if making profit out of here). And no, I think that 1840s Company would be quite eager to see Dominion destroyed. They contacted with Dom’s constantly, recognized their threat and viciousness. Their trade would hardly suffer from Dominion destruction – after all, slavery would still be widespread in the whole region.
I would assume the mounts might be similar to thosed used on CSS Alabama and ships of that types from the 1850’s & 1860’s to allow large guns to traverse and fire either to port or starboard. Limited number but quite a punch as I understand.
And can I just say I have really enjoyed this latest volume as the story expands and develops. I can see that the defence of Vera Cruz maybe the heart of the next book as the allies try to hold it and expand their position while also facing not only the Dom troops on the east coast plus at least a part of the grand army coming back via the pass of fire. Will Captain Holland with Tiger and the rest of the allied fleet sail south to face them or will they stand their ground and try to win on land. Really just can’t wait for the next volume when it comes out. Keep up the good work Taylor your books mean a great deal to all of us
Thanks Michael. Your encouragement means an awful lot to me.
So, I just stumbled across a video on Youtube on the Honda Point Disaster in 1928, and it raises some interesting (points? Comments? Questions?) pertaining to the marginally altered history from which Walker, Amagi, and the rest originate. To recap, the Honda Point Disaster was a training exercise gone awry which resulted in the loss of several Clemson class destroyers, the other “4-Stackers”, quite similar in appearance, era, and capabilities to the Walker’s own Wickes class. Though I disremember the exact reference, I am certain the disaster is referenced at least once(and probably multiple times) by the human crew of the Walker.
So now for the video (Honda Point Disaster – Taking a Wrong Turn at Albuquerque by Drachinifel, a truly excellent channel for navel history snippets). Apparently, it is generally agreed that the human error which led to the disaster was caused, or, at least, exacerbated, by highly abnormal currents and wave patterns attributed to the Great Canto Earthquake which had occurred a week earlier. This is the very same earthquake which, in our world, utterly destroyed the then under-construction Amagi on its stocks, and prompted the conversion of her sister ship Akagi into an aircraft carrier. Which brings me to the following musing. What might be an in universe explanation for either a) the Amagi surviving the earthquake and continuing construction as a battle cruiser or b) the occurrence of the Honda point disaster when a potentially major causative factor (i.e. the earthquake) did not take place. I’d be delighted to here any thoughts or comments.
Also, I by no means intend this as any kind of critique of Mr. Anderson’s universe, which I find utterly delightful. Just thought that there were some interesting connections between these two seemingly disparate events that both have some bearing on the destroyermen universe.
Required more than that. Amagi was already slated to be converted into aircraft carrier, like Akagi (due to earthquake damage, the battleship Kaga was converted instead).
No, the only realistic case in which Japan may finish Amagi is if they lost by accident some of their Kongo-class battlecruisers. The Washington Naval Treaty allowed to immediately replace the accidentally lost ship with a new one. Japanese may argue in favor of completing the Amagi as replacement. The peculiar main guns of in-novel Amagi – merely 10-inch, instead of planned 16-inch – was most likely the pressure from USA and Britain, who did not want Japan to get another brand new capital ship.
Honda Point was mentioned in one of the first three books (all I’ve read so far), but I can’t remember if it was by a character or by the author.
Think Spanky said about it when they are discusssing how to remove the screw from Mahan for Walker after they they drive the Grik from Aryaal
I hope we eventually get an artillerymen sequel series, that focuses on the NUS shortly after the original books.
I’d love to see them enter a 5 yr period or so where they have ‘ironclad destroyers’ largely armed with Hotchkiss rotary cannons.
Before hitting a WWI level of tech.
Er, by 1940s – the time of Destroyermen series – the NUS was still using wooden steamers (albeit screws) and didn’t have anything better than muzzle-loading rifled cannons in their arsenal. I.e. they barely reached 1850s tech. No ironclads at all – since Dom’s did not use shell guns, there is little point of armoring the wooden hulls (thick wood works good enough against roundshots) – and no rotary cannons.
Hi, Alexey. I may be mistaken, but I believe Travis was referring to an NUS series that takes place after Winds of Wrath, showing their technological growth in the several years after defeating the League and Dominion.
Well, they have Alliance tech to help them – the main question is how would relations between NUS, Alliance and League evolve. Now, with Dominion out of the picture, NUS may be more inclined to stay neutral (they perfectly understood, that in case of Alliance-Leauge war, they would be one of the first League target, if they side up with Alliance).
For Alexey, I’m not sure the NUS would stay neutral. If they tried to do so either warring party, Alliance or League, would decide that NUS territory and resources were a) too good to pass up or b) too good to let fall into the other side’s hands. We know, and both the Alliance and League know from their own parallel histories, just how rich in resources the Americas are. The American Navy Claim would certainly know of Louisiana and Pennsylvania oil.
On the other hand, if either Alliance or League would move against NUS, it would automatically cause the other side reaction – for the same reason. So, the NUS may actually be willing to “play Finland” – a neutral state, reasonably friendly to both sides of local analogue of “Cold War”, who profit greatly from arranging mutual trade.
I would like another prequel series either when the Germans crossed over in World War 1 or when the British Indiamen arrive right at the beginning of our saga. We know who the sailing master was who taught the Cats Latin some minor details of their arrival and then journey to the ‘New Britain’ isles so to flesh this out would bring the story full circle to where it all began
It’ll be mildly painful to see the state of disrepair the Impero’s in, five years after the books.
Hello this is my first time on here. I saw the Destroyer Men a couple of years ago but it didn’t really grab me. Then in Mid may I picked up Into the Storm. I just finished Wind of Wrath yesterday. So now I’m grabbed. I really enjoyed all of the books. Now I guess I have to slow down for a while. Keep up the good work.
Hello from Mother Russia, Tom)
Hello. Doesn’t seem to be much activity here.
Unfortunaly true, the site is almost completely dormant now.
Partly my fault. I was away from my “online” computer for so long, roughly 6 months, I didn’t post or moderate anything for quite a while. Hopefully, things will begin to pick up. I’ve missed you guys!
Thanks, Taylor! And oh, we missed you too!
We’ve missed you!
I think the switch in your webpage and discussion panel of old also hurt; a lot of folks thought the site went inactive. I’m not on FB anymore so no idea what’s happened there.
Seems like this site is unhappy with my posts again) Waiting for confirmation)
Hm, no, just the delay. Some glitch probably.
I just had a random thought. I was rewatching the 2002 Shackleton series recently, and I started wondering how many lost expeditions from other timelines have shown up in the Destroyermen world. I mean, imagine Franklin’s Expedition, and their equivalents…well, that would explain The Terror miniseries now wouldn’t it? XD Only instead of a polar bear or fantasy creature, it’s some form of polar grik. “And our food is still spoiled, come on!”
I’m not sure many of them would notice the difference, at least, the ones who don’t freeze to death from the ice age-level temperatures.
“We got shipwrecked at the bottom of the world and got rescued by some weird lemur people and now we’re in Africa. This has been an interesting year.”
Okay, idea; a few years down the line, the Alliance has an agency dedicated to contacting new arrivals and getting them to safety(or dealing with threats…), but they also have an anthropology group dedicated to going around to the various tribes and cultures around the world researching the stories they have from displaced people over the decades. Might be able to find the origin of things like that metal-hulled ship(probably the Cyclops though) that Reynolds and Kari found.
I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s Norsemen in Canada or Victorian Brits in the Congo. Still, an archaeology/anthropology department doesn’t sound like it’ll get a lot of funding, what with all the preparation against Round 2 with the League.
One can argue that’s exactly what kind of preparation they’d be doing. Perhaps both sides would be doing a sort of arms race, and with different philosophies. As they emphasized in the last book of Destroyermen, our heroes survived because of their adaptability and use of people’s skills, while those who relied entirely on limited advanced technology and threw the people away like nothing lost in the long run. That would be pretty fascinating actually, especially with remaining political tensions within the Alliance, of people debating that very measure. “Why should we go looking for lost fishing ships and tourists? It’s weapons we need! Look at the sickness coming out of Japan, with that big bomb from the other world!” “But how else will we MAKE the big bombs without people who know how to do it?”
It’s a big planet, though – the amount of ocean to cover and the Allies’ lack of ships and people favours a reactive approach rather than a proactive one. Sure, they can set up a full dragnet in friendly waters (the Malay Barrier, Caribbean, all the shipping lanes they control), but for the most part they’d have to rely on hearsay, sightings and/or radio signals to come to them. Otherwise they’d usually end up sailing halfway around the world just to count trees.
That could be likely as reports from the NUS suggests tribal cultures in the north and the Norse would certainly be one of those peoples who could adapt to the new world. And without the Grik to deal with their culture could if not thrive then certainly hang in there.
The nearer we get to the regions the Grik or Grik like creatures dominate then there could be less chance of survival unless they are in fairly large numbers with plenty of ammunition and possibily a few pom pom guns or gatling guns would give then a chance.
Of course what interests me is how the transfers come across from the different original earths. For example everything coming across appears to be from our earth now but the Axis forces who crossed only a few years earlier came from another earth. Then the Artillerymen seem to be from our world yet those who came over in world war one are from another world which might be the League of Tripoli home earth or another one all together.
So all we need is for Axis forces with jets, nuclear powered warships and missile tech to come crashing through to set everything on it’s ear. Or even a cross over from an iron sky type event with space dwelling dangers. Led by next generation grik-human hybrids now if that didn’t knock Mr Bradford for a loop i don’t know what could
Michael Clitheroe: “For example everything coming across appears to be from our earth now” At least one other world — Isak says that Santa Catalina looks “sorta like the Blackhawk,” and then remembers that Blackhawk’s original name was Santa Catalina. So if Isak is familiar with Blackhawk, he and the wrecked Santa Catalina came from different worlds.
Have a similar thoughts) Things would start to get really interesting in early 50s – when the Cold War would start, and there would be a lot of warships and warplanes with game-changing technology that could be transferred to Destroyermen’s world…
I wrote a short story about something like that (African slaves on a slave ship that runs into a storm). Won a contest on Facebook and Taylor gave me a book. I was very pleased!
Just keep it up . Technically you are spot on. Please give more in you new series.
I had an idea for a book like this series once, but I don’t have the will it takes to write. My idea involved a group of British MKv land ship tanks that was transported back in time to a world full of swords, knights, and warlocks. I just started reading artillerymen (my first of Andersons books) and I’m in love with it. I would love to read all his books set in this universe and maybe see something like my idea appear in them. Regardless I found something awesome to binge on and hope his imagination doesn’t stop churning this out as I catch up on these fine reads.
Hi Kristopher. Welcome. Ha! If you get started in the D-Men series, you’ll see all kinds of fun tech advances over time. Not so much of that in A-Men because of the time period. If you think about it, the 1840’s was kind of the last decade of the 1700’s, from a tech-in-use perspective. Teetering right on the cusp of PROFOUND advances and changes in everyday life. People were already tinkering with tech that exploded figuratively in the 1850’s and literally in the 1860s, but little of it was “mainstream” yet and much of it remained “indistinguishable from magic.” Though river and coastal steamers were picking up steam, (sorry), they weren’t yet nearly as practical or economical as sail for trans-oceanic travel. Percussion caps were proven, (one might even say perfected), by the 1840s, and the very latest military weapons (M1841 “Mississippi” rifle, M1842 Springfield musket, the latest Halls and Colt’s various repeating pistols were all percussion–but remained rare enough that relatively few saw use in front line service. In the US Army, the ubiquitous flintlock M1816 Springfield, (along with various modifications), remained the standard infantry arm. I’m sure some of the “new” M1835s saw use, but most of these were being converted to percussion before they were even delivered to the army. Of course, many were then converted to rifles, just like the ’42 muskets, and STILL didn’t get issued. Electrical telegraphy was still in its infancy and rare enough that most people had no idea it existed. Hmm. This might be a fun discussion thread: what other kind of tech can you guys think of that would be practically unknown to Lewis Cayce’s men, but common as matches a decade later?
“Horseless carriages? Moving pictures? Yeah, pull the other one, wiseguy.”
Justin, weeeeeeeel, horseless carriages weren’t exactly known in 1840s. Trevithick’s steam carriages attracted quite a lot of attention, and in America, Oliver Evans promoted his “Oruktor Amphibolos” since 1805.
Honestly, I think it’s a tragedy the steam carriage industry didn’t take off. AFAIK, it was strangled at birth by the horse-carriage industry lobbying against it in Parliament, resulting in laws being passed that made it unprofitable.
Photography? Hot Air Balloons?
You will love Destroyermen. I promise that.
I just notes the Icons om the messages. Who picked the icons. Mine is part of a pic i took 7 or 8 years ago.
As we prepare for the new year, I’m wondering about certain natural resources in the Yucatan peninsula for our new heroes. While it’s clear that timber, fiber (for rope), and agriculture are there, I see little, either in the opening story or in our-time encyclopedias, for the resources the artillerymen will need to keep the Doms at bay. I’m thinking iron, coal, copper, tin, other metals in lesser amounts, saltpeter (necessary for gunpowder), and sulfur (ditto) for openers. Set aside for a moment the technology and manufacturing base; without these raw materials the artillerymen have a substantial problem. They’ll consume the limited resources of the Yucatan and then … have to go elsewhere.
My own research of the Yucatan doesn’t reveal sources for these materials. Anyone have a better idea?
Well, from “Destroyermen” we knew that NUS ancestors DID go elsewhere…
Yes we do, and I anticipate (don’t know of course, because Taylor won’t blab) that this will become clear in the 2nd book. But it really has to happen — either they go north or go south to present-day Venezuela, which WE know has some resources but which they would not know. So north it is. A real question would be, how quickly will our artillerymen make this decision? We in our computer chairs can see that the quicker, the better, but on the ground in the Yucatan with the Doms closing in, it might not be that clear a decision.
Not to mention, that Venezuela is most likely Dom-controlled.
“A real question would be, how quickly will our artillerymen make this decision? ”
Most likely as soon as they realize, that Dominion is BIG. That it’s a great empire with million-scale population – a significant part of which is fanatically loyal to the Church – and enormous resources. We knew from the books, that they managed to took over Dominion old capital; most likely it was exactly the moment, when NUS ancestors realized, that instead of delivering the fatal blow, they basically just angered the giant who previously barely noticed them. An inversion of Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, if I may say so; NUS ancestors attacked the Dominion hoping to secure a quick victory over colossus on clay feet, and found out that colossus is just started to fight…
The more you read the old books, the more you realize how many crazy stories must’ve happened in the background and never got mentioned. For all we know, Melhausen was the Reddy of 30+ years ago… and just what made the Grik scared of winter in the first place?
A fair point. Quantity has a quality all its own as we all know. Given that the artillerymen have a technological edge that is precarious and dependent on logistics that they can’t replace for now, whacking the hornet’s nest to discover, “hey, there are a LOT of hornets coming out of there!” perhaps wasn’t the best thing to do. But they didn’t know that at the time.
“The more you read the old books, the more you realize how many crazy stories must’ve happened in the background and never got mentioned. For all we know, Melhausen was the Reddy of 30+ years ago… and just what made the Grik scared of winter in the first place?”
They weren’t “scared”; they just thought economically impractical to invade territories that are too cold for them to live and to breed livestock. Griks are predators; they require a highly-productive ecosystem to inhabit (because they could not directly digest plants; only through livestock, and there are energy losses here). As far as Republic was described, it and Griks basically left each other alone – because Griks have no reason to invade Republic, and Republic have no reasons to provoke Griks.
“A fair point. Quantity has a quality all its own as we all know. Given that the artillerymen have a technological edge that is precarious and dependent on logistics that they can’t replace for now, whacking the hornet’s nest to discover, “hey, there are a LOT of hornets coming out of there!” perhaps wasn’t the best thing to do. But they didn’t know that at the time.”
Essentially yes, and let’s not forget – they just gave Dom’s the STEAM ENGINE, basically allowing Dominion to boost its productivity tenfold.
— “Griks are predators; they require a highly-productive ecosystem to inhabit (because they could not directly digest plants; only through livestock, and there are energy losses here). As far as Republic was described, it and Griks basically left each other alone – because Griks have no reason to invade Republic, and Republic have no reasons to provoke Griks.” —
I think Taylor noted in a couple of the books that the Grik DID want to conquer the Republic of Real People — it was part of the ‘hunt’ to find and conquer others. If nothing else, the effort thinned the ranks to an appropriate degree and, at the end, provided meat.
What the Grik couldn’t do is succeed in the challenge to get to the RRP, which (as I recall) was mainly geography and climate. They might have been able to assemble a Grand Swarm and sail into Alexandria but the RRP had the big guns and monitors there to prevent just that.
I don’t think it was, for the Grik, a rational evaluation of the ecosystem and livestock management, but more of an inability to get done a job that they would have been very happy to do.
Having only read the book once as I recall there is a minor gunpowder production so the people in the Yucatan are obtaining the raw materials for this at least. And saltpetre can be made if I remember from manure, wood ash and urine with straw plus some other ingredients which I think they can find. Sulphur could be found in Mexico at volcanic vents maybe tectonic differences here may have some vents nearer than in our world so that would give another part of the mix. Wood would provide charcoal.
Charcoal made from wood would also help in metal processing so coal would not be essential. There is of course the issue of suitable sources of raw metal for weapons etc. They could obtain some iron from the wrecked ships and copper from hull plating. Any additional stores from the ships would provide some extra metal. May be a stupid but where tin plates actually tin, if so could they reuse?
Of course all this would just be a stop gap. And depending whatever metal they rounded up from the Doms could help as well.
What raw materials could be obtained from Cuba and the Caribbean Islands too help with this as well?
Thanks for the correction about gunpowder production. Yes, one could do that to at least some extent in the Yucatan.
Cuba does have some metals: zinc, lead and nickel. All very useful. I’d have to read more about the rest of the Caribbean Islands. Certainly timber and agriculture.
Well, as we knew from “Destroyermen” they eventually relocated from Yucatan to North America. Most likely exactly for that reason – lack of resources in place.
My posts seems to be disappearing again…
So, in the last Destroyerman book, we are told that the story is over. Now a new series about part of the people in the first series? We know they worked things out. They are in the story-line of the first series. Maybe Mr. Anderson should have continued the first series?
Well, it’s for Taylor to decide, you know)
I can’t recall the “Americans of 1847” ever being mentioned in the Destroyermen books. Would you please supply the title(s)? Thank you!
Actually, the NUS–initially only represented by “Captain Anson” begins making an appearance less than halfway through the series and is specifically referenced as the “1847 Americans” because the year of their arrival is all thats known about them and no one knows what else to call them at first.
Let the author write what he wants to write. Sometimes people get tired of doing the same storyline over and over again; fifteen books is already longer than most TV shows.
Besides, there’s nothing stopping Mr. Anderson from coming back eventually… maybe to cover Reddy’s son and Chack’s daughter?
Longer than most book series, too!
With the impending collapse of the worldwide private central banking system, their corrupt political flunkies and the monopolistic corporations, a newfound freedom of expression should explode. Taylor with your track record you should be able to truly call the shots in where you want to take this world you have created. (anyone who does not understand the above should watch the youtube video “Monopoly-who owns the world” its an hour and a half long , a tad slow but he even shows you how to verify the information yourself. It is not actually new info but he puts it together better than others i have seen.)
Personally I would love to see a book expounding on the political aftermath in the destroyerman series. There are so many disparate societies that the variety of political and social structures arising after the end of the war would be incredible. Identifying the possible pratfalls and pitfalls of each system and how they would interact with one another would be very interesting. Especially using the grand pallet of characters that you have “brought to life” in these books. Up to this point the focus has been on the war, but I think I speak for many others, I want to see how they tackle creating a new world. Your skill as a writer goes far beyond articulating scenes of battle, the antics of your characters in this new setting would be a very enjoyable read.
Sigh. Even here politics…
“newfound freedom of expression should explode”
Hardly. The collapse of global structures always lead to rise of nationalism, xenophobia, and mutual suspicions among splinter elements.
Yeah, you could make an entire series about that. Throw in tensions with the League and maybe other powers we don’t know about, new ships/planes coming through the squall (along with whatever insights and technological advancements that they bring), and Silvia’s Corps of Discovery and well, you have quite the story.
And also while I do enjoy discussing modern day politics it would be nice if we didn’t discuss it unless it specifically relates to the world of Destroyermen (for example how stuff coming through the squall in the modern day would affect the politics of the destroyermen world or someone arguing that there is political messaging in the books). I don’t want every website to turn into Twitter, thank you.
The development of jet flight etc could be a heck of a surprise on both sides. Just imagine an early 707 popping up in NUS territory with some say high level official or important scientist on board would they want to share such a jump forward in tech. And with say 100+ other mixed passengers with their knowledge and potential skills etc.
Plus there may very well be other steam punk like groups elsewhere who crossed over and have kept themselves isolated from any of the other groups who have crossed and survived that may be found and not want anything to do with outsiders. After all we assume that metal acts to activate the crossing in some cases so could a whole steam train just appear, say from the time of Russo-Japanese war or say from the early 20th century after all we have former Czech Legion survivors crossing over so could perhaps a whole military train just pop up. I’d assume there would be a crash when the trains with no rails and forward motion so many may die but with weapons, supplies and tech skills they could find some safe haven and just keep to themselves.
“The development of jet flight etc could be a heck of a surprise on both sides.”
Actually, not so much. The obvious limitation of propeller and… insane complexity of piston engines, was quite obvious even in 1930s. Almost all major powers experimented with some kinds of alternative propulsion, that either wouldn’t be limited by propellers, or at least would not be so ridiculously complex. Motorjets, pulsejets, ramjets, turbojets, turboprops – all this was invented even before the war, and at least basically known to aircraft enthusiasts (and sci-fi fans also). And not only major powers worked on such; for example, Hungary (not a great aircraft producer at all), developed the first ever turboprop engine in early war years.
In fact, as I mentioned before – I believe, that in Destroyermen’s world, both Alliance and League would probably pay much more attention to alternative engine ideas and concepts. The reason is simple; high-power piston engines are monsters, ridiculously overcomplicated, very hard to produce, and require extensive knowledge in many areas to be designed. Even such industrial powers as USSR and Japan struggled, trying to develop powerful piston engines (one of the reasons behind 1941-1942 German air superiority on the East, was that Soviet advanced fighter aircraft, like Mig-3, have major engines problems, that could not be rectified in time). I suspect, motorjets and pulsejets would likely be the most promising solutions; they are based on already-known concepts, relatively easy to design and manufacture.
“Plus there may very well be other steam punk like groups elsewhere who crossed over and have kept themselves isolated from any of the other groups who have crossed and survived that may be found and not want anything to do with outsiders. ”
Well, League apparently have a problem with some British and Russians, who were blocking their expansion toward Black Sea; since they were at least able to be a hindrance for League, they clearly have at least XIX century tech level.
“I’d assume there would be a crash when the trains with no rails and forward motion so many may die but with weapons, supplies and tech skills they could find some safe haven and just keep to themselves.”
It depend of how big plot of land was transferred.
I spoke about this sort of thing last week. To explain in brief; I was speculating that the Lemurians might be less than thrilled with their allies now that the war is over, and the pressures are no longer there that would demand they ignore their allies’ moral issues. There could be many parallels to real-world post-WWII politics, such as the GI Strikes.
I’m new to the Destroyermen series and have only reached book 5 but I’ve noticed a creeping political correctness into what is essentially a WWII centric world. That is, feminism. The author has tried to bring it in where he can, namely with the Lemurians. But he’s never explained, at least so far, who raises the Lemurian younglings if all the females are busy in male roles? So far, Karen Letts has had a child but will the author explain that she’s now effectively out of the “action” because washing diapers, making meals from scratch with no modern stove, doing laundry with no washer or dryer etc will now take all of her time, as they should with the Lemurians?
The conceit of naked women doing all the heavy and skilled labor among the Imperials also strikes me as wildly unlikely especially in a Protestant culture and set up only to help highlight the values of modern feminism. (Although Reddy’s thoughts on the value and role of women in the making of western civilization is on target)
I’ve also wondered at the seeming total absence of Bibles aboard the Walker or among the Imperials. I would think that the Imperials most potent weapon against the Dominion would be smuggling Bibles to their people. But so far, not a hint that even a single Bible has been wafted from our world to this one. Am also concerned about the corrupted Catholicism of the Dominion. I hope this will not be the sole representation of Catholics in this new world? So far, we’re to believe that there was only one lapsed Catholic among the Walker’s crew? Not to mention a seeming virtual absence of other Christian denominations.
Welcome aboard, Pierre. (Smiling response). Wow, I’ve been accused of just about everything under the sun, but this is a first for “Creeping Political Correctness.” I think, like those who have said I’m a “neo colonialist”–What the hell is that?–you might be seeing things that aren’t there, or not seeing those that are. Book 5, right? Lemurians are in an existential struggle and their females fight. For it or not, ours do too. (My daughter just got out of the Army). I won’t even try to describe how I felt when she announced to me that she had joined–but there’s no one I’d rather have at my back in a fight. Doesn’t mean I WANTED her to fight. None of the D-Men like it at first, and few will ever be really comfortable with it. Read on and you will see a lot of the damage that is occurring to Lemurian society as more and more of their people–females too–are thrust into combat and industrial roles.
“Naked women” were fishing in the remote outpost of Respite Island, which had its own subculture in the Empire. Women elsewhere were used for largely unskilled labor–essentially assuming the same roles forced on them by the Dominion. (“Nakedness” is an unfortunate feature, and will be explained more in the “Artillerymen Series” I’m working on now). The only “export” the Dominion had the Empire wanted, women were cheap. Look at the contrast in the way they were treated in the Empire, too. More like ancient Rome. Virtual (or actual) slaves, or porcelain dolls. That changes too.
Of course there were bibles all over Walker. They are even mentioned, when Lemurians begin comparing their beliefs. I’ve got 3 of the little ones just about everybody carried. That said, Chief Gray isn’t the only Catholic. Others are mentioned in passing–and what about Sister Audry? What about Sergeant Koratin, the first LEMURIAN convert to Catholicism? Then there’s the Vengadores, but you might not be there yet. Point is, D-Men may be one of the few recent sci-fi stories written in recent years in which nearly every character is unapologetically religious to some degree, but caught in a life or death struggle, they tend to search for similarities in their beliefs rather than things that will tear them apart. The “corrupted Catholicism” of the Dominion is the exception, of course.
Final point. The D-Men are Asiatic Fleet. Yeah, they were a worldly bunch, living in a setting before the war that Kit Carson’s description of the rocky mountain Rendezvous might be applied to: “Maleness gone berserk.” At the same time, they were already exposed to so many different cultures–and they loved the setting so much, for the most part–that they might’ve been uniquely suited to their role in the “new” world they find themselves on. I don’t think Atlantic Fleet, or even Pacific Fleet sailors with stricter class distinctions would’ve adapted so well. And that’s another point that obliterates the “neo colonialism” accusation (as I understand it). It isn’t a WW2 centric world. The D-Men from that world have been plunged into another that they will strongly influence, but they are very few. They will be influenced as well.
“neo colonialist” that a new one on me. But I’ve spent the last 30 year reading 18th-20th century military history and some people I’ve know for a long time think I’m imperialist and racist because of it and those are people who like me. I think it started when I disagreed with someone over Robert Clive and said how great the Harry Flashman books were with someone else. Some people need to take a deep breathe and read a few more books and stop getting a strop over unimportant things.
To be fair you are right very few groups could deal with such a world changing event and not loose it. I think perhaps only early 18th century East India company troops, early period French Canadian colonists or the Foreign Legion of the 19th century might be able to deal with something as shattering as loosing a whole way of life and world.
I think in general you have hit the mark better than many writers could with what becomes such a complex whole world built from the ground up.
And anyone coming into the series may see somethings as odd but there are real world connections to the things that happen in the book series. Scythian culture for example, the female Japanese warrior culture, the general attitude of the Spanish Colonist’s in central America
On a unrelated point I have tired to pre order via Amazon UK Hell’s March. Which I can’t do, they won’t ship it to me and gave some complete nonsense as to the reason why. So I logged into my Amazon USA account (I buy Radio Spirits cd’s from there as you can’t find them anywhere else) and could order it plus another book with a ripoff shipping cost. I’d like to say something but we are supposed to keep things PG so fill in as you see fit but keep it to yourself folks.
Can we book passage for bosses of Amazon to D-World or some other 4th dimension zone where their self important stupid rules make sense
Basically, neocolonialism’s when a society’s no longer consciously imperialist, but they still regard themselves as superior and try to “help” other societies be more like them and/or make them dependent on them; IMO the Americans would’ve been more than happy to let the Cats stay as-is with minimal disruption to their way of life if they weren’t about to both be eaten by Grik.
That said, there’s a lot of exposition about baseball and Christianity and Western values (albeit not excessively), so if somebody’s looking for reasons to be outraged, it’s easy to interpret the cultural osmosis as one-sided. I’m guessing all the stuff about Mi-Anaaka culture and the crew adapting to it didn’t make it past the page limit.
But feminism? Yeah sure, Aslan forbid we spend most of the book reading about exploring the world or fighting fascists and dinosaurs instead of the really interesting stuff like Baalkpan homemakers.
As Alexy points out, “Well, Lemurians aren’t human. They are non-human specie with its own behavioral biology and traditions, and most importantly – psychology.” Pierre might reply that while Lemurians aren’t human, the author (Mr. Anderson) who created them IS. As in all science-fiction and fiction in general, one has to separate the author’s beliefs from that of his or her characters. A good writer makes that possible. In my own reading, I certainly saw the Lemurians as very different, exotic (to me, a human), and with thoughts and cultures that were just plain alien. And yet they adapt as they needed to do when confronted by the willingness of human to help them in their existential fight against the Grik. That’s one of the points that kept me coming back.
A reader can always project, as Pierre is apparently doing, his own thoughts on the characters, or on the author, or on what the author is saying about the characters. But that’s what it is, a projection of the reader. A sophisticated reader will recognize that and withhold judgment, and instead read the book for what it is.
I’d say to Pierre, gently: keep reading.
If you are looking for a definition, I can definitely provide one; I’ve researched colonialism quite a lot. Neo-colonialism is the continuation of colonialism through informal means. This can be extortion, trade, manipulation, cultural means, etc. It allows former colonial powers to maintain a lot of control without actually owning the countries they used to dominate, and create arrangements that are similar to those they previously held. I don’t think Destroyermen would qualify as neo-colonialist. Usually neo-colonialism involves nations that were previously exploited, left with nothing, and are being re-exploited and abused. Many post-colonial countries are poor, deliberately so, were never paid reparations for what had been done to them, and had to build themselves up without any of the basic infrastructure a modern nation should reasonably expect. This is not simply because the formerly-occupied countries made bad decisions, it was because they were put into an impossible situation; they’re being blamed for failing to win a marathon after getting shot in the leg with the starting gun. There is a lot more to it. It’s a very complicated and politically-charged topic. I’m doing my best to avoid provocative subjects and simply try to define the term and its background. I also had to resist writing an entire essay explaining this.
I’ve mostly heard the term used in reference to countries, not in reference to individuals. Destroyermen might not really have any examples. Colonialism and neo-colonialism are specific and loaded terms, and we’re mostly seeing the former. Most of what we’re seeing is the bad guys participating in colonialism. It wouldn’t be neo-colonialism for the Union to keep a stranglehold on aircraft engine exports to the New British Isles because there was no great colonial history between them, for instance. That’s little different from the British being hesitant to sell jet engines to the Soviets in the late 40s and 50s. It might just be straight-up colonialism. If Respite Island declared independence, and in response the Imperials cut off trade, and/or took it over and established a new government, that MIGHT qualify, or it might just be straight up colonialism. The closest example is perhaps Billingsly’s actions against the Alliance, in attitude if not technically fitting the definition. It’s a power famous for imperialism attempting to exploit a power they previously lorded over. I say arguably, because it can also be said to be plain colonialism; it’s the history that’s the point. The League keeping everyone fighting amongst themselves is straight-up colonialism.
Our heroes are not colonizers. The original East India Company fleet would be, as would the original Dominion ship; they’re classic colonizers in every way, shape, and form. Colonizers go to extreme lengths to keep their people separate from native populations. The Spanish were notoriously frustrated by their guys marrying indigenous nobility in what became Brazil(only means of upward mobility available to those lower-class Spaniards). Colonizers keep technical secrets away from the people they’re exploiting, though they do use proxies quite frequently and equip them with weapons in many periods. The Japanese are colonizers, as they were historically. I don’t know what neo-colonialism would be here. There’s plenty of colonialism from the bad guys.
The point about the uniqueness of Asiatic Fleet reminds me; they’ve got a perspective many people didn’t get until the end of the war. I’ve been studying WWII more in recent years(Destroyermen has been inspiring for that). In my studies I discovered an event I had no clue about; the 1945-1946 GI Demobilization Strikes. I’m sure Mr Anderson, that you are aware of the event, as I can see it must have affected conversations in River of Bones, specifically the one between Russ and Laney about what they’re fighting for. I assume this, because there are photos of these guys leading enormous protests right in front of MacArthur’s HQ, and occupying the Manila congress building(with deliberately mixed race ranks); a ton of the protests would’ve been in the fleet’s stomping grounds. The strikes were a significant point for its class solidarity, effectiveness, and their awareness of geopolitics. All of these are reflected in the D-men’s behavior, especially in the aforementioned conversation. The Asiatic Fleet occupied a very unique position; foreshadowing the events that would be happening further down the road. Artillerymen works in a very similar way, foreshadowing the inevitability of the US Civil War.
I should probably stop here before I bang out another essay 😀
Thanks for the lengthy reply, Taylor! Being a writer myself I know how valuable my own time can be. That said, I can’t get into a long reply now, but will say I appreciate some of your answers while others don’t necessarily convince me. However, I’ve read enough to see that you’re a damn good writer with a full steam ahead style that is totally compelling no matter some of my reservations. Be sure that I’ll continue reading and look forward to the artillerymen series as well!
Welcome from Mother Russia, Pierre! Hope you like it here!
“The author has tried to bring it in where he can, namely with the Lemurians. But he’s never explained, at least so far, who raises the Lemurian younglings if all the females are busy in male roles? ”
Well, Lemurians aren’t human. They are non-human specie with its own behavioral biology and traditions, and most importantly – psychology. Their thinking process is not exactly human-like, and their learning and education processes also seems to work differently.
Another factor is, that Lemurians obviously did not have much wars in their history (not counting the Griks). In mankind history, the main reason NOT to put females in military was demography; the child death was quite high up until industrial era. And losing the childbearers on battlefields (messy, per-industrial battlefields with primitive medicine, if any) was simply demographic suicide. Loss of males could be easily replaced without affecting demography much; loss of females could not. So the imperative – “females are not fighting” – formed in human civilizations, and since “political power grows out of the barrel of a gun” (c, Mao), the reduction of female rights was following.
But Lemurians, being less warlike – it was stated, that wars between Lemurians are either very rare, or heavily ritualized – simply does not have such problem. Losing a bit of female population in single battle or in short, ritualized war, would not affect demography significantly. So they never have imperative to reduce female participation in fighting.
“The conceit of naked women doing all the heavy and skilled labor among the Imperials also strikes me as wildly unlikely especially in a Protestant culture and set up only to help highlight the values of modern feminism. (Although Reddy’s thoughts on the value and role of women in the making of western civilization is on target) ”
Well, cultures evolve. Let’s not forget, that at some point Imperials figured out that they are in different world completely (Dom’s for example already knew that by 1840s). This mere fact – that there are numerous world, numerous versions of Earth – most likely shattered quite a lot of religion imperatives, and decreased the general role of religion in society. Also, significant portion of Imperial founding population was not Christian – they were Hindu, Buddhists or Muslim. Interlocking of different religious ideas in the situation of general crisis of faith could cause… quite interesting results.
“I would think that the Imperials most potent weapon against the Dominion would be smuggling Bibles to their people. ”
What’s the point? How exactly average Dom’s citizen could decide that Imperial Bible is not a “Satanic fabrication of heresies”? Or, the situation may actually be worse; the Dominion may actually be considering the original Bible outdated (using a whole situation of a new world as demonstration), and their bible as “Newest Testament”. In that case, they do not even need to remove the old Bible – just declare it outdated.
” I hope this will not be the sole representation of Catholics in this new world?”
The Imperials actually have Catholic population, close to original Catholicism.
Here’s some thoughts I had recently. I can see the Union taking issue with their three big allies after the war. They don’t disagree on semantics, given what we know, they have significant differences on how to treat people. A few years ago I wrote some thoughts on this forum about how the Lemurians might not take kindly to having to sacrifice so many of their people for the sake of the Impies. With what was at stake in ’43, that wouldn’t be the case, but now that the war is over, perhaps there will be political factions who object to alliances, or at least certain arrangements. Not saying the NUS or the republic are completely awful, to clarify. I’m saying they may have some issues. Abolishing slavery doesn’t mean they’re saints. I just got done writing a paper on the 1864 Sand Creek Massacre, where abolitionist Methodist preacher Colonel John Chivington led a cavalry regiment to slaughter and mutilate 150-200 Cheyenne and Arapaho non-combatants in a massacre was so heinous there was incredible public outcry, a congressional investigation, officers refused to participate and testified against him, and there were calls to hang him(that should tell you how horrible it was, that people of 1864 got that angry). This is the same man who was said to have he protected a member of his congregation from being carted off as a runaway slave before the war. He was not hanged, he managed to wriggle out of justice to die of old age in 1894. The officers who testified against him died young; one, Captain Silas Soule, who was murdered three months after giving his testimony, was likely killed on orders from Chivington. Soule was a Maine abolitionist who was friends with John Brown, and even tried to rescue him after Harpers’ Ferry in 1859; he and other officers kept their units from participating, and Soule testified despite threats to his life.
I say all this to explain that opposing slavery doesn’t necessarily make a good person. I don’t remember what the NUS’s relationship with indigenous people, though I’m suspicious about what might have happened to any groups who may have transferred on land between 1847 and 1942. A group of Sioux people from the 1870s, for instance, might have firearms far in advance of the 1840s(lever action, breechloaders, etc), and many such groups, if they didn’t run afoul of the Dominion, probably should’ve found the NUS. Who knows what may have happened…?
Considering the pre-war culture of the Maritime Southeast Asian Lemurians, they might have some ideological objections to the other factions. As much as they hate the League, they may conclude that it’s just not right to turn a blind eye to the moral transgressions of the NUS, the republic, and the empire. There is real life precedent for this. In our timeline, in 1945-46 right after the war ended, Allied troops went on strike. They weren’t being demobilized rapidly, and wanted to go home. More than that, tons of guys were getting really self-aware about colonialism and imperialism, especially in the Pacific. They feared the military industrial complex, didn’t want to fight the Soviets or other communist groups(they’d spent the last five years fighting side-by-side, why fight?) and upset at how they were giving American equipment to the colonial states to help them regain power after they just saved a bunch of the colonies from the Japanese. British troops were saying they should pull out of India; there’s pictures of RAF staff arguing with officers. Australian troops put up signs on bedsheets with “we want ships not assurance”. There’s photos of American troops marching in front of MacArthur’s HQ(must’ve driven him nuts to no end XD ). A lot of the troops were familiar with striking tactics, given how many NCOs were strike leaders in the 30s. This was accompanied by massive letter-writing campaigns back home from their families, and a ton of strikes among workers there too. It’s amazing because the strike completely worked. It scared the heck out of the politicians, and they started demobilizing very rapidly. It’s a major reason the US didn’t have many troops to send to China when the revolution was going on.
Considering the backgrounds of our destroyer and S-19 crews, they’d be on similar lines to those soldiers. Further, since the Lemurians gelled pretty well with them, they might have similar thoughts. The Union has arguably the best industrial base on the planet. While others seemed content to take things slow, the Union went, well, the same way the US did in the original timeline. This will likely result in similar economic and environmental problems, but certain social measures that exist will prevent some issues. The others have been important more for their existing industries than for their advancements. Trying to use that as leverage wouldn’t be a reliable long-term plan, because the Union’s already got a lot of this stuff in concept, it’s a matter of expediting fabrication. For instance, they didn’t have a great glass industry before they contacted the Impies, but the Union knew the concept. Meanwhile, the destroyermen have at least heard of radar or jet engines or tanks, but the other nations beyond the League haven’t. The other nations can’t go to the League, for as rich as they may be in tech, it’ll be years before they can build up the same sustainable infrastructure. Further, they won’t offer any “allies” the ability to manufacture goods without their observation. The Union is the most progressive nation standing, and aside from the fascists, they’re the most advanced. Everyone else needs them a lot more than they need everyone else. Union Lemurians have a very different political background from human nations at certain points in history. The Grik are the only nation they have serious hatred for. Given the integration of American and Lemurian ideals, their zero-tolerance policy in regards to certain institutions, I can see the Lemurians wanting to keep their supposed allies at arms-length now that the war is over. They might be a little worried about the moral differences. Now that the Grik threat is ended, and the Dominion has been very badly hurt, there might be calls to downsize the military, from the troops themselves. More than just disagreements, they might object specifically to the policies the NUS and the republic leadership have, much like the strikers did in 1946. Eliminating the slavery policy in the empire is a start, yet that might not be enough for many.
There may be some parallels to real world politics here, there’s that history of certain countries that have sided with or turned a blind eye to dictators in the name of fighting a larger threat. I could also see parallels to some of the main themes of the story. When Reddy charged Walker at Amagi in the first book, he talked about how they finally dug through the layers of grey to the black and white. The Lemurians might take similar stances, and refuse to follow that policy of turning a blind eye. If they have to choose between the lesser of two evils, that’s no choice at all. They’re going to pick a third option. “We’re not going to listen to these people until they listen to reason!” [demand equal gender rights, abolishing of segregation and its equivalents, that sort of thing] I could even see this creating a political party vaguely similar to Gaullists, named after Reddy’s ideas instead(Reddyists?).
The Union of Homes holds an awful lot of cards. I’m not saying the Union is going to be evil or anything. I’m saying that they might hold the other nations to a higher standard in their fight against the League. The history remaining human Americans, the Lemurians who remember the fiasco at Aryaal, coupled with the assassination attempt on Union leaders, might lead to them refusing to follow similar policies of “you’re either with us or against us” as certain nations did in our timeline. They might tolerate neutrality, but they won’t tolerate the sort of cruelty they started seeing with the empire’s slavery.
” This is the same man who was said to have he protected a member of his congregation from being carted off as a runaway slave before the war. ”
Unfortunately, attitude toward Indians was often far worse than toward Negroes. Must admit… it wasn’t exactly completely unfounded. Many Native American tribes have a… taste for torturing, raping and massacring weaker groups, and some of acts they performed routinely would rival even WW2 Japanese atrocities. So there was a serious prejudice against Indians; they were viewed in public opinion as violent, treacherous and opportunistic.
“A group of Sioux people from the 1870s, for instance, might have firearms far in advance of the 1840s(lever action, breechloaders, etc),”
They may have such firearms, but not the ability to make more. So their value would be limited to transfer of new tech to NUS or Dom’s.
” It’s amazing because the strike completely worked. It scared the heck out of the politicians, and they started demobilizing very rapidly. ”
Nobody understood yet, how the atomics changed the nature of warfare. US still thought that they could just went down to usual minimal military readiness in peacetime. The realization, that there could not be any “minimal readiness” in nuclear age came only later. And US did not exactly likes it…
The post war world would be very interesting; I don’t know that Taylor will get to it given what his publisher demanded on the last book. But yes, the Lemurians may well 1) believe that they’ve given enough 2) may not see the now-pacified Grik in any favorable light 3) have concerns about the NUS 4) have REAL concerns about the non-leaderless Dominion and 5) come to believe that the League is a problem for another day.
The Union of Homes is going to have real growing pains and concerns. Is it a confederation after all, or a federation, or a nation-state? Makes a difference, and the folks on Celebes already have a different attitude about what’s theirs. Does the Ameri-caan clan stay in Baalkpan or does it migrate over time (say to the North American west coast)? In this regard, having a new common enemy, the League, might be what is required to keep the Union together, and perhaps a clever politician will exploit that.
Yeah, the Graf Zep was a pretty bad design considering the amount of aircraft it could carry for its size and displacement. I wonder if it would be modified in the world of twr and carry a different air group or keep it the same. Even with 30 155s the Alliance showed that they had a decent capability to deal with modern fighters in Winds of Wrath. And 12 Stukas is just a pitiful strike group, so I don’t see it doing much damage against alliance forces. And using the Stukas as scout planes would take away even more from that offensive capability.
Maybe, maybe not. The Third Reich’s military-industrial complex was downright North Korean most of the time – seeing as Goering wanted all planes to belong to the Luftwaffe, it’s a minor miracle the GZ got built at all. The air wing wouldn’t even have taken off conventionally, they needed two steam catapults at the front like a Rube Goldberg machine.
That said, the Union fliers were basically up against 109D/Es and it was still a lopsided fight, so 109Gs might as well be 262s as far as the Bull Bat pilots are concerned. Wonder if two carriers (24 Stukas) would be enough to threaten Alex-aandria…?
Pneumatic catapults. There weren’t steam catapults yet. Steam catapults are actually very complex, require high tolerances, and weren’t known in 1940s.
In fact, USN in 1950s pondered quite a long time, what is better – steam catapult, or fuel-air catapult (the ones, that works like torpedo engine – igniting fuel-air-water mix to turn it into a high-pressure steam in cylinder)? Steam catapults required, well, steam – and this meant that carriers with them would not be able to use such wonderful new things as diesels and gas turbines. Fuel-air catapult could be put on carrier with any propulsion system – but it consumed kerosene to work. In the end, they choose steam, mainly in anticipation of nuclear propulsion making all other kinds obsolete. As it turns out, of course, they get only one nuclear carrier in 1960s, and were forced to use steam-powered ones for decades till the serial construction of “Nimitz”-class started…
A lot of what comes through the squall may very well be hostile, so I’d imagine that even in peacetime the Grand Alliance is going to keep a quite strong navy and air force.
I think something from a Soviet controlled world or a cold war going hot would be cool though, maybe something like what is portrayed in red storm rising. There are always possibilities for scenarios where the axis wins with something similar to Man in the High Castle, though anything involving the US being occupied by essentially anyone later than the 1800’s I feel is very unrealistic. I guess for a more realistic axis victory scenario there is the Hearts of Iron Four mod The New Order: Last Days of Europe, but another idea for stuff that comes through the squall could be something from a post apocalyptic world. With sufficient nuclear weapons you can certainly make civilization collapse (something that eventually happens in the mod).
Got a stray plot bunny for a Thousand Week Reich carrier that the League redirects to South Africa – strong enough to be a short-term problem for the Allies, but not enough to be a long-term one.
that would be a problem for the alliance, though it would really depend on what its airgoup is equipped with
Apparently the Graf Zep class would’ve carried 30 Me 155s (naval 109Gs) and 12 Stukas; for perspective, a Yorktown or Maaka-Kakja carries twice that many. So a significant problem… for maybe a week or two.
After the events of Destroyermen, do you think there will be an increase in new ships being “squalled” into their world? (or at least that stay alive long enough to make contact with someone) I think that based on what we know, yes, and there are plenty of opportunities for stories there.
First of all at least as far as we know events that propel ships, planes (and other things) have gotten more frequent, as the Dominion, NUS ships, ships that formed New Britain and elements that formed the Republic of Real People came through over the course of hundreds of years. Meanwhile in just a few years Walker and Mahn, Santy Cat, S-19, The PBY, Amagi, Ho, the League and several other wrecks have come through.
There are some limitations to this theory, since we haven’t looked at the entire world. There could still be groups that got transported that we don’t know. More than likely there have been dozens to hundreds of ships and maybe land based communities (along with perhaps a few aircraft in recent years) over centuries that came through and simply were defeated by the hostile environment that is in the destroyermen world and the lack of resupply. Or they die to the variety of animals that threaten everyone in Destroyermen.
However even with that limitation to the theory it is still likely that any ship that crosses into the world of the Destroyermen will be more likely to survive, at least depending on the region it’s in. If they send out a radio message somewhere in the pacific or Indian Ocean it will be likely picked up by the alliance. A lot more of the world is inhabited or known to be and any new ship is more likely to find someone then eventually die.
Second of all at least in our world and ones that are similar the world there would be an increase in ships going around the world as countries have started to adopt liberal trade policies. This is increasing the amount of ships on the water. Think about now how much stuff is shipped around the world and how much of what we interact with would not be possible without global trade. And the more ships sailing around the higher chance one of them is to run into a rainsquall and well the rest is history. (maybe the supply shortages many people right now are having could be due to the squall, who knows). While a lot of these ships would be civilian vessels, the cargo and people they carry along with the ship itself would still be invaluable to whoever’s door it turned up on.
One other little detail to point out: All of the stuff that has passed through the squall has been from a world that we can at least understand with points of divergence that are fairly recent. However there is always the possibility that something that comes through the squall could have a point of divergence within our history that is hundreds, thousands, or even millions of years old. These worlds might be similar in some ways, but have totally different cultures, technology levels, and essentially everything else. While it might confuse readers it might be a cool idea.
“However there is always the possibility that something that comes through the squall could have a point of divergence within our history that is hundreds, thousands, or even millions of years old”
I very strongly suspect, that Mountain Fishes are the example of later; they came from the world, were evolutionary process diverged from ours hundreds of millions years ago. That’s how they managed to circumvent the size limits of Earth organic; they are NOT composed from organic matter as we understood.
“I very strongly suspect, that Mountain Fishes are the example of later; they came from the world, were evolutionary process diverged from ours hundreds of millions years ago. That’s how they managed to circumvent the size limits of Earth organic; they are NOT composed of organic matter as we understood.” Yeah I hope we get some sort of explanation for this.
Here’s another idea that makes this even crasier: I wonder if anything is going on in space. There are environmental differences to the environment on the Destroyermen Earth so why not on other worlds? What’s to stop Mars being able to support life and other differences in within our solar system. It is of course going to be a long time before anyone on the destroyermen world gets into space, but its a cool idea. I also wonder if something similar to the squall could happen in space, because it obviously won’t involve rain.
Answered in Storm Surge – the Martians would get dumped out into a completely different “ground state” because that set of parallel worlds differs too much from our set.
That said, there’s no rule against a nuclear sub full of tea-sipping civilized Grik five books from now.
Ancient super advanced civilizations? Star ship has FTL drive malfunction and crashes into the destroyermen world, and/or a certain green clad super soldier escapes at the last second using an escape pod and crashes into the Borneo wilderness…
It is the great thing with this type of story the what if. Say the final Renaissance took place two hundred years earlier then the impact of the enlightenment etc. kicks in sooner putting technology further ahead. Equally as we look at our own history and the evidence of some wild ideas that did not take originally and think along the progression if someone had thought ‘Great idea’ e.g. evidence of the steam powered ‘toys’ in the classical world, some of the early ideas in China over use of rockets and gunpowder all could have moved our world forward far sooner. So on one world Rome did not rise but the Greeks built their Alexandrian Empire and absorbed the best ideas from the world they could have leapt forward or wallowed in the here and now. After all Rome stole many of it’s best ideas from other peoples and did not always think beyond to the next level. A concept of if it isn’t broken don’t fix it. Equally if the limiting and somewhat blinkered early Christian views did not come to play would the classical world based on logic have made leaps forward to create what we would call a modern world sooner. Or would we have found a stagnant pool unchanging and stuck inward looking and unwilling to develop further.
I think that everything is possible and with metal appearing to be a big factor in the transportation process it could be amazing what could passage to the new world and with the many smaller wars in the later part of the 20th century you could have anything from tank battalion’s nuclear subs crossing over even bombs or drones as we get nearer to the here and now
Or (the horror! the horror!) the world, where USSR won the Cold War, and capitalism is viewed as outdated, failed idea, attractive only for poor, undeveloped nations like South Korea and West Germany? 🙂
I wrote a short story (“Last Contact”) about that idea a while back for a contest the DFA group had on Facebook. Not every group that comes through is able to survive; certainly any group that come to rest in sub-Saharan Africa, or South America, was going to have a major and immediate problem.
Just finished! Another great book Taylor! Even though I know the good guys win, I’m still wincing at every mention of them taking loses.
If you could switch out Walker with another ship what would it be?
Doesn’t have to be time accurate, just that it was around during ww2 or right after (like the Des Moines)
Example: An Atlanta class. Its 5″ guns should put a sailing ship down with a single salvo, it has lots of them to better deal with those swarms of grik indiamen, and could pelt Amagi and Savoie to death with a continuous barrage of shells. And since it has all those guns, they could have some removed to be placed on other ships without significantly lowering its effectiveness.
“and could pelt Amagi and Savoie to death with a continuous barrage of shells.”
Amagi or Savoie would blow her out of water before she managed to score a hit. This isn’t “World of Warships”. 127-mm/38 mount have a max range only 15000 meters, and her shells require more than a minute to fly that far. And the dispersion of light slow shells at max range would be terrible.
Thank you for your optimism and helpful suggestion
Its reality. Battleships and battlecruisers could not be “pelted to death”. Especially not the “Bretagne”-class, to which “Savioe” belong; those old French superdreadnoughts have almost all their hulls armored with 7-inch armor.
Would you like to offer your own suggestion?
That would really depend on what is doing the pelting. If you had for example a Des Moines class cruiser firing super heavy 8″ AP shells with her semi automatic loading guns I would not want to be in a battlecruiser or early dreadnaught getting caught by her. At longer ranges she the 8″ shells can penetrate the deck of both the Amagi and easily the Savoie. Even if they are not able to reliably penetrate the armor Amagi at mid range she is going to make an utter mess out of their topsides and mission kill them. Once you knock out fire control and command and control that typically runs through the squishier bits of a ship they may still be afloat but they are deaf, blind, and dumb. Once in that state at closer ranges 10,000 to 15,000 yards the super heavy 8″ AP can punch through their belt armor. Just look at the Hiei to see what even a Treaty CA firing 8″ shells could do at the right ranges to a lighter armed BC/BB.
As I recall the bulk of the detached expeditionary force would have the standard smoothbore flintlock so effective range would be equal to the Dom matchlock. Depending of course on quality of the gunpowder being used. The American flintlock rifles do give a vast range advantage and the socket bayonet also giving the cold steel combined with ability to keep firing and loading.
I am surprised that as the Dom’s developed steam power from ‘friendly persuasion’, and I shudder at the thought of just how, why they did not take the next logical step to use socket bayonets even if they did not take on flintlocks as that would be a game changer.
Of course the breech loader goes back to the late 1500’s but were used by hunters in situations were a second shot preloaded and ready may be the difference between life and death. And of course the breechloading rifle starts with the Ferguson but due to slow production and high cost as never taken up in effective way.
It’s rather like the development of the machine gun, repeaters go back to the puckle gun in the early 1700’s but took several combinations of ideas, tools and lateral thinking to create a viable weapon that could be relied on to work when it was needed.
Well that answers that.
I fired a few single shot breech loaders and a few flinters and matchlocks with re enactors over the years so never had a crack at a cap and ball except once with a 1853 Enfield. I missed the target and put the round through and through a friend’s truck doors. Thankfully his truck and his Enfield so he was very good good about it.
Didn’t Dreyse produce his first viable breech loader in 1836-37? So in theory the Americans could have known about complete cartridges systems and so with caps have the benefit of the speed of breech loading over the slow load rate of the Doms. I know there were the issues of sealing the breech etc. but it could answer the issue of rate of fire.
Based on what we know from the destoryermen series the Americans in Central America were using muzzle loaders if I recall correctly plus cap and ball pistols for people like captain Anson.
Dreyse rifle was tested in 1840, and adopted for Prussian service in 1841. Production rate was low due to complicated mechanics. I seriously doubt that 1847 Americans – outside of arm production business – knew much about it. Some probably may know that Prussians have functional breech-loading rifle, but not the details.
Anyway, it’s plainly impossible for proto-NUS to produce such weaponry. It required level of precision machining way beyond their capabilities. Most importantly, against Dom’s it probably just not needed; the muzzle-loading rifles with Minie balls would gave enough advantage (and still be quite a pain to produce on almost-nonexistent industrial base).
Yes, it’s the industrial base that is the issue, just as with the Alliance and the Destroyermen. The Artillerymen will need to build the machines to make machines to make machines. While it’s likely that a few hundred men of that time have quite varied skills, one is asking that they build a 19th century industrial base from scratch. That’s going to be quite a problem. And, let’s not forget that the Yucatan, even (or especially) the Yucatan of the new world, is relatively resource-poor and not conducive to building an industrial base.
Hmmm, wonder where they might go to find what they need to survive?
To my knowledge, the only Cylinder rifle that ever saw “widespread” use was the 1855 Colt Root and it very unpopular for a variety of reasons. They required complicated (expensive) machining and had quite a few small, rather delicate internal parts, (both features being a deterrent to military procurement), and soldiers who did get them tended to hate them. Five or six (depending on caliber) quick shots were handy, but then it took MUCH longer to reload them than it would to reload a single-shot weapon five or six times. Rate of fire was therefore affected. Multiple cylinders weren’t an answer (and really never were for anyone in practice) because parts interchangeability remained a bit iffy. A trooper might tune a few expensive cylinders to fit his particular rifle (or pistol) but they wouldn’t necessarily function well in someone else’s. Not like modern magazines that will fit in anything designed to accept them. Hand (for rotating) and bolt (cylinder stop) engagement had to be just so, and revolvers with similar mechanisms still need a touch of tuning to achieve interchangeability even today. The biggest problems with them, however, were–and are–the sharp, potentially painful gas (and sometimes lead fragment) release between the cylinder and forcing cone. Even worse was the potential for a multiple discharge. Not a huge problem with a pistol, but when your supporting hand is in front of the cylinder on a rifle when the chamber next to the one you fired also goes off . . . Well. Disconcerting at the very least and likely crippling. The story is, they tried to issue them to Berdan’s Sharpshooters and were told to pound sand. That’s how they very appropriately wound up with Sharps rifles.
On a personal note, I’ve shot pistols of similar deign all my life. I even had a Root pistol for a while. Very nice. But even loaded carefully, I’ve had occasional, sometimes memorable, multiple discharges from cap and ball revolvers. Enough that when allowed to shoot my Grandfather’s Root Rifle as a kid, (which had suffered the loss of the wooden forearm to a multiple discharge at some point ) I was sensible enough to prop it on a fence post. It is cool that I have shot one, but I would never WANT one, and certainly wouldn’t choose to rely on one in combat if given a choice!
Sir all this discussion in entertaining but , really it is all about the ability to see a possible other reality. Please keep us informed about your new works. I am sure we all await them. Thank you for many an entertaining other world evening. Please continue.
When you consider the Colt Paterson or Colt Walker you could scale up to a cylinder rifle. In fact I think the Paterson was developed into a rifle in 1838 I think and I know that later Colt pistols were developed into rifles. So in theory they could have repeating rifles in .36 or .44 and with removable cylinders with preloaded replacement cylinders they could put quiet a lot of fire into an enemy with the right tools etc. this could be done I’d say. Never fired any thing like this so not sure how easy to machine or degree of reliability compared to other repeating rifles but it could be done. If I recall correctly British frontier forces in Southern Africa were armed with cylinder flintlocks in the 1820’s, I’m sure it was referenced in a Allan Mallinson Light Dragoon novel so I’d assume he bases the reference in fact
These troops are so badly outnumbered, they need weapons that can be loaded much faster. They need to make a long distance phone call to Dennis Silva to see what he recomm.
Not sure if my item just posted applied or not but Paterson and Walker Colts were used as the basis for cylinder rifles so they could easily go down that route as the Paterson .36 was developed in 1838 I think.
Basically the only fast-firing thing they may invent in rational timeframe is a mitrailleuse.
Finished the book. When are we allowed to talk about it? Don’t want to leak a spoiler by mistake.
Well folks the book turned up on the 9th and I’ve nearly finished it.
I love it and it has now an even more important meaning as a read as my father passed away the day before it turned up giving me a sense of bitter sweet enjoyment of the original series that has helped me through some hard times over the last few years and this new hoped for first instalment of the new series.
Taylor keep on writing and bring us more of the dangerous but exciting world of the artillery and destoryermen
If anyone is interested in wargaming Regal in New Zealand and William Hocker in the USA do some really fine figures for the Mexican American War period
I have previously wargamed some of the naval engagement’s via Navwar mini ships and had a interesting time
Just a quick test
this is another test
This is a test
Just get the “Purgatory Shore” on my Kindle)
the shore is here so now to take a “SHORE BREAK”
THANKS TO AMAZON
I just read the Kobo preview for Purgatory’s Shore and can confirm that The Worlds I’ve Wondered is not at the start of it. Instead, the introduction to another Courtney Bradford book, Lands and Peoples, published by Library of Alex-aandra Press, is at the start.
Out of curiosity, since I haven’t got around to reading Winds of Wrath yet, what ships did the Grand Alliance capture from the League of Tripoli?
One Littorio-class battleship, one Francesco Caracchiolllo-class battleship, one (or two) German D-class turbine pocket battleships.
Having read the taster of the new novel can’t wait to get the whole thing and see what happens next
I can see that Taylor has been around cleaning things up. bunch of comments gone. there needs to be a way to correct an entry to fix typos as I see I misspelled Taylor in my last post. and caught the spell correction in this one.
Here are some pics of taylod and his version of the walker. Whenever he was writing deck scenes he would walk over and study it to keep from writing incorrect descriptions.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/donaldjj/36528164592/in/album-72157687863387035/ The entire ship
https://www.flickr.com/photos/donaldjj/35862098904/in/album-72157687863387035/ The bow section Where is the coke machine or is it the white block in back of the bridge
https://www.flickr.com/photos/donaldjj/35887575283/in/album-72157687863387035/ The mid section
https://www.flickr.com/photos/donaldjj/36527895102/in/album-72157687863387035/ The stern section
Just wondering, the New Brit Poseidon class doesn’t have any ships named Poseidon.
It’s possible that the lead ship was lost due to accident, or renamed due to some reason/
Are there going to be any more DD-men fanfiction contests?
Hi guys. Sorry, I’m still having trouble with this new site. Used to be, when someone posted here, I was notified by e-mail and I could respond or quickly moderate the post. Not getting that. I hope it’s sorted out soon.
I think The Worlds I’ve Wondered might come out as a separate book
Also I would like to see a series about SMS Amerika and her crew (Linermen, maybe?) in the future
Gonna miss Dennis Silva!
Just finished Winds of Wrath. Totall enjoyed and very happy that you had Walker pull into Port with all the Fanfair. I can see the League and the Alliance still causing trouble for each other down the road. Really a great series and a great ending. Thank You!
near the end of winds of wrath two large booms were heard and speculation was they were from volcanoes. I think they were the atomic bombs dropped on japan. The time frame is right.
were the loud bangs that were mentioned in the winds of wrath from the atomic bombs in the real world?
I posted a comment on the last general discussions right before everything got reset. I hope it’s SOMEWHERE out there…
Is Courtney’s full World’s I’ve Wondered forward going to be in it’s finished form at the start of Purgatory’s Shore?
I suspect (don’t know, of course) that Courtney’s World’s won’t come over with the Artillerymen. Different series, different way of doing things.
Well, I hope to see at least the finished part where it left off.
Well I guess I’ll be the first to comment in general discussions!
Awaiting the book, obviously, and hoping we’ll have a community as we did for the Destroyermen series (and, a series that I hope we’ll see some more of in the future, those fine men aren’t done yet).
Well, the third actually)
Those other two weren’t there when I commented. Guess there’s still a few bugs…
YAY! It’s back!
Great, that didn’t take long. Now if I can only get the link to click through to pre-order ‘Purgatory’s Shore’.