March 17

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Devil's Due



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Posted March 17, 2016 by Taylor Anderson in category "Uncategorized

3,069 COMMENTS :

  1. By Clifton Sutherland on

    Usefulness and feasibility of using smokescreens for linear land combat.

    Can it be used to gain ground?

    Attacking through smokescreens?

    Irrelevant because most sides use black powder (although in the story we are slowly getting away from that?

    thoughts?

    Reply
    1. By Generalstarwars333 on

      Well, if they can get white phosphorus, or something similar, they can use those for smoke rounds. Even if they don’t find smoke screens useful, the rounds would still probably be useful for breaking up infantry attacks or setting things on fire, since AFAIK they haven’t put any of their napalm stuff in artillery shells.

      Reply
  2. By Justin on

    There is baseball. There is a growing Catholic faith. There is coffee and cigarettes, with a possible soda brand on the way.

    And yet no pepperoni-mushroom pizza.

    Either a previously-unnoticed Brooklyn destroyerman need to come forward, or they need to force the recipe out of the Italian POWs; if the Americans are going to completely disrupt and contaminate Lemurian culture as we know it, fine, but they gotta do it properly.

    Reply
    1. By Generalstarwars333 on

      Justin, tell me, why are you up this late? You live on the east coast, right? Why are you up at something like 2 in the morning? (ignores fact that this comment was typed at 3:47 AM)
      Also, since when has there been a possible soda brand on the way? I was not told of this. Or maybe I was and forgot. *shrugs*

      Reply
      1. By Justin on

        Earlier discussion about a hypothetical Root Beer or Sprite analogue. Not sure where it went.

        And it’s just past midnight in Vancouver. No need for an intervention, Mom.

        Reply
        1. By Generalstarwars333 on

          (was up at 3:47 procrastinating on homework.) And oh. huh. I thought Vancouver was like in the east where I thought a lot of canada’s cities were. Shows what I know.

          Reply
          1. By Generalstarwars333 on

            Yeah. I hear they make some great tasting fried-triangles there. I’ve been told they’re especially good when cooked medium-square.

      2. By Steve Moore on

        gotta have something to fill the Coke machine, although I do admit to filling mine with longneck beers in college (and charging a buck). After they’re done with the marbles craze, maybe they’ll go to that. After all, their new Grik friends will be able to pull the beers out, even with claws. Wonder if they can snap the caps off with their teeth?

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          1. By Steve Moore on

            Jeez, now the ‘Cats will want a cigarette lighter option on the Allin-Silvas and BlitzerBugs. Can’t have them going around playing with matches. Although I’ll bet at least one DM has a trusty Ronson or Zippo…

          2. By Steve Moore on

            guess they’re going to have to change the rhyme “this is for shooting, this is for fun”… wait, they’re not rhymes, not cadence… squit, been a long day and I forgets.

      3. By Lou Schirmer on

        Somewhere around 2 Jan this year, I said Earl needed to come up with something to fill the empty Coke machine. It never went very far.

        Reply
  3. By Alexey Shiro on

    My condolences to the dreadful tragedy in Las Vegas. Fifty-eight innocent peoples lost their lives, and over five hundreds were injured. It’s… just hard to apprehend the tragedy at this size.

    My deep condolences.

    Reply
    1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

      Well said, Alexey. My sentiments exactly. I’m still kind of stunned and details remains sparse regarding motive or anything else. I think the only assumption we can safely make so far is that this . . . evil being was a murdering coward.

      Reply
    2. By Matt on

      Thanks for you kind words Alexey. It’s been a pretty horrible day. My prayers go out to the victims.

      Reply
    3. By donald j johnson on

      Shows the damage that can be done by one man with an automatic rifle. What I was wondering was how many rounds were fired. the normal is more than 3 rounds per casualty so I am guessing he must have had more than a suit case full of whatever he was shooting. 2000 rounds minimum is my guess. at least we do not have him to worry about any more.

      Reply
    4. By Clifton Sutherland on

      Too true, Alexey. I really dont have any words for it. I don’t know how someone could be driven to do this…they haven’t come out with a motive for the shooter yet.

      What do you even do when someone is that committed to killing? Theres no way to shoot back, only run and hope that his bullet finds someone else.

      Why is our nation unable to stop ourselves from inflicting this terribleness upon us?

      Reply
      1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

        Hmm. There can be no specific answer without further information which may or may not be forthcoming. There just is always going to be a certain percentage of any population that’s maniacally, evilly nuts. Hopefully we’ll find out what flipped his switch. I do believe I have some GENERAL answers for society (domestic and international) as a whole, however. Still, I hesitate to get specific even about generalities. Some might accuse me of moralizing and automatically shut me out–but THAT’S part of the problem. The entire world is creeping inexorably into amorality, apathy, nihilism, and worst of all, the notion of moral equivalency and pacifism as VIRTUES in the face of TRUE EVIL it cannot bring itself to recognize. If people acknowledge that evil is real, then they must also acknowledge that their cherished pacifistic appeasement of it is actually abject cowardice. That will never happen.
        Even harder for some to grasp is that there is TRUE GOOD in the world. It’s no secret here, I think, that my religious beliefs are a little like Courtney’s. I have faith in a higher power, but will not preach. That just shuts some people’s minds down too. But whether you believe in God, or just the “Better Angels” within ourselves, “good” is real, and I think it can be achieved by striving to embrace “honor.”
        Honor, as I define it, is not embodied by old-fashioned notions related to reputation, family lineage, and certainly not ego. A few of those things may be worth defending if unfairly assailed, but true honor–again, as I imagine it–can be most easily defined as “doing the right thing, even when nobody is looking,” and the responsibility of “confronting evil when you recognize it, whether it’s aimed at you or others.” These are the themes that underlie the entire D-Men series.
        The sorry fact is, however, that honor, and the sense of personal responsibility that goes with it–as well as the morality that sustains them both–are out of vogue in our modern world. God, whether you believe in Him or not, is the ancient foundation upon which morality was constructed, yet with or without Him, the teaching of morality has been banned from our schools. Civics–and civility–are no longer taught either. These are the VERY THINGS that constitute the fragile veneer of civilization!
        Worst of all, in a divided society of “victims,” personal responsibility has been replaced by “do whatever feels good and avoid that which undermines your unearned, delicate, and artificially constructed ‘self-esteem.” I say “artificially constructed” because only earned self esteem, achieved through trial, tribulation, achievement–and defeat–is real, and can sustain the daily assaults real life hurls against it. Is it any wonder that, in the absence of any moral foundation, earned self-esteem, or sense of personal responsibility, evil has accelerated its attempts to crack that fragile veneer?
        Yet to avoid responsibility for the cause, some leap to attack the tool the evildoer used. No matter that cars, airplanes, IEDs, box cutters, even kitchen knives have caused similar grief in evil hands, guns personify the evil in the minds of those who cannot recognize its human source–and their part in creating it.
        And ironically, their very effort to attack the tool always has the opposite effect of their desire.
        The evil act itself inspires many to arm themselves so they will be prepared to confront further evil in the future. Though understandable, this is usually a temporary phenomenon. Humanity has evolved past the point of eternal vigilance. Yet the attack on the means to defend oneself and one’s family–the gun–only further polarizes people who are unable to comprehend each other’s perspective, since they’re utterly alien concepts to the now distracted antagonists.
        On the one hand, you have those who see no need to protect themselves and trust the government to do it for them. I could cite example after example of how this trust is so often broken, but the point is, they see their fellow armed citizens as the primary threat.
        On the other hand, those who would protect themselves see the attacks of those who won’t as a threat to their ability to do so. This causes a rush to procure MORE weapons before the government prevents it. The result is greater division and hostility than ever before, a greater collapse of bipartisan effort and mutual understanding, and yes, lots more weapons in the hands of people, many of whom never would’ve purchased one otherwise, and some of whom probably really have no business having one. An honest discussion of THAT, whether certain people are fundamentally unfit to exercise the responsibility of firearm ownership, would probably be of great benefit, perhaps determined by the same extensive background check that enables open or concealed carry. To placate those who fear exposing themselves to such scrutiny is akin to registration, leading to confiscation, the same check could be required of anyone desiring to operate a motor vehicle, or exercise any other right of responsible citizenship–like voting. Should anyone not socially or mentally balanced enough to own a weapon be allowed to vote? Should those who ARE have their right taken away based on the actions–and votes–of those who aren’t?
        Perhaps the philosophy of the Shee-Ree is the answer. A “universal background check” for citizenship, and those who do not pass are not “allowed to live among us.” Too severe? Yeah, as you’ve guessed, a lot of that part is tongue in cheek.
        But the fight always winds up being between the gun owners and gun grabbers–and the roots of the problem, the lurking evil and immorality, the erosion of honor, decency, responsibility, and character–all things that sustain every great civilization–are never addressed at all.

        Reply
        1. By Alexey Shiro on

          A really, really good and complex answer, Taylor. Nessesary complex – because only complex answers could be right answers for the really, really complex problems. I agree with nearly every your word here.

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        2. By Steve Moore on

          Didn’t Heinlein have a similar theory he wrote about, sending people through a barrier into a world called Canterbury(?)

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        3. By Charles Simpson on

          One thing not mentioned is population pressure. Remember the studies done in the 1950s with rats, unlimited food water, nesting material but limited space, once a certain point is reached rat society crashed. Most but not all of this type of shooting occurs in large urban environments.

          Now for something totally different, during the continuing Red Cross efforts in Texas following the Hurricane volunteers from all over the US came to help. Did you know that there were volunteers from the Israeli Red Cross Equivalent? See a tee shirt a friend of mine who was there got here: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1209064725892204&set=p.1209064725892204&type=3&theater&ifg=1

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        4. By Steve White on

          Thank you Taylor.

          There are still some who have virtue. As just one example, the man who was shot to death while shielding his wife from the sniper. As another example, the unarmed security guard who tried to roust the sniper.

          We still have people with honor, virtue and personal courage. Maybe we don’t have enough, I don’t know. But we still have some.

          Reply
          1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            Oh, absolutely. I just wish virtue would be recognized and held up as an example more often than decadence and depravity. By the way, glad to be back. I had no internet access for a week or so.

        5. By matthieu on

          As you say, I think that a significant part of the problem is indeed related to education. The most important problem is not really the school but the education given by parents. If children see greedy and violent people, they will behave the same way.

          Some people should not be allowed to have guns (or to drive) given then way they behave. Some rules would be easy to implement. Here I can purchase a gun but there are some conditions. For example for a hunting rifle I need a
          – hunter’s licence
          – pass a test that demonstrate that I know how to handle a gun and that I’m not dangerous to miself or other people.
          – a letter from a doctor stating that I’m not completely lunatic
          – a background check by the police
          – a proof that I have a safe at home and that it’s too complicated to be opened by children.
          IMHO it’s just common sense.

          Vote is an ever more complicated question as who would decide that a given knowledge is important. Who would decide that somebody is too stupid to vote (and we have to be honest, we really know some people really to dunb to really understand the consequence of their votes).

          Reply
        6. By Andrew J on

          My college professor would have me believe that masculinity and the patriarchy are the causes of all evil in the world today.

          Reply
    5. By Charles Simpson on

      How mentally upset must the shooter have been, not only committing suicide but taking others with him. What is really sad is seeing this and previous tragedies committed by sick individuals become political footballs promoting various political agendas, how sick must our society be.

      Reply
      1. By Clifton Sutherland on

        I wonder if one of the reasons so many mass shooters kill themselves is because, for whatever reasoning they had to condition themselves to conduct the violence, actually pulling the trigger and killing, once the adrenaline wears off, causes them to become overwhelmed with what they have done?

        Reply
  4. By Clifton Sutherland on

    Just got my medical waiver for ROTC, which got me thinking….

    I know the Union is working on creating officer schools to train new cadets. With all of the rapid industrialization and new ideas coming up in the past few years, I feel that the Union should work to establish an education system. some state funded universities would really be a good step, especially if focused on technical fields. Once the Destroyermen are gone, we’ll need to have institutions for preserving their knowledge.

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    1. By Alexey Shiro on

      A bit too eraly to worry about this, I think, but the direction is right.

      Reply
    2. By Justin on

      Definitely a post-war priority.

      Though they’ll probably need to import some professors from the University of Alex-aandra or from Governor-Emperor’s College; Bradford isn’t going to teach an entire institution by himself, and I can’t see Chack or Spanky (or Silva) in a lecture hall.

      Reply
        1. By Justin on

          Learning how to fight is what the Advanced Training Centre’s for. College and/or university is mostly theory and mental enrichment/expansion – no time for that yet.

          Sure, they could set up trade schools for all the practical stuff, but I’d argue that the current co-op program generously arranged by the Grik and Dommies is proving effective enough for now.

          Reply
    3. By Lou Schirmer on

      A lot of people are getting plenty of on the job training in practical engineering, but they do need to setup at least a pilot program for the best prospects, teaching the fundamentals of WHY they’re doing things a particular way. Not a full scale university, but a small scale program for the best folks & managers.
      They also need to rotate out some of their good combat pilots & troops to train new recruits, or they’ll be facing the same situation Germany & Japan were near the end of the war, plenty of trainees with no combat experts to train them. Training in combat is a very Darwinian method of doing business.

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    4. By Steve Moore on

      I thought about ROTC in college and went so far as to take the physical (still a draft at that time). Couldn’t pass the eye test, so thought I was OK until the senior technician said, “It’s just not good enough to be an officer. You’re still good for the draft.”

      Reply
      1. By Clifton Sutherland on

        I actually had eye problems too- I initially joined Navy ROTC, but they wouldnt grant me a waiver. I was pretty devastated, but luckily the Army has waaaay lower standards, at least in the eye department! Now I’m loving the Army life, and will hopefully contract this fall, with a goal of going into Intelligence!

        Reply
        1. By Steve Moore on

          Yeah, it was at NAS Brunswick, but they did most of the ROTC med stuff. I was kinda hoping to get into NROTC, actually. My roommates were mostly ROTC; they ended up in Armor and Airborne (surgeon). My dad served in Iran during WW2, running trucks, etc up to the Russians from the Persian Gulf. I didn’t think much of being stuck in a land war in Asia, though, in 1971.

          Reply
  5. By Steve Moore on

    do you suppose that Hij Griks have dentists? Or orthodontists?

    I’m guessing that they don’t have lawyers.

    Reply
    1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

      Maybe they’re all lawyers. They do eat each other, after all . . .

      Reply
    2. By Justin on

      “Hij Uralsh, how do you plead?”

      “Not guilty.”

      “Permission to eat the defendant, Your Honour?”

      “Hmm… I’ll allow it.”

      “Okay okay okay, guilty!”

      “Splendid. Who wants lunch?”

      Reply
    1. By Matthieu on

      As far as I know, both countries have a useless military that they haven’t used to do something really effective (save being used to oppress their own people) during the last 100 years. gnignigniiii

      Reply
      1. By Generalstarwars333 on

        Well, I mean Chile had a cool military who crushed the militaries of Peru and Bolivia through the use of maps of the territory they were gonna fight on, having a good navy, and being well supplied. Also, unlike Bolivia, they had a navy. The Bolivians decided to wait until after they’d lost their coastline to create a navy.

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      1. By Steve Moore on

        Well, that beats the Santy Cat hands down, that’s for sure. Thanks, Justin.

        Reply
  6. By Justin on

    What’ll happen to Tatsuta? Assuming the Navy doesn’t call dibs, I’d bet she’ll be Queen Safir’s royal yacht – given to her and Chack as a wedding gift.

    Reply
    1. By Steve Moore on

      Put Kurokawa on it, thorns and all, and send him off into the sunset in a Viking funeral pyre. I’m sure the Mi-Anaaka can build a much nicer yacht in the PT factory.

      Reply
      1. By Lou Schirmer on

        With us, I don’t think it’s a big deal, personal preference.
        With an author & public figure, like Taylor, it’s not a good idea at all. Too many freaks out there who may get ideas.
        Most of the overheads are satellite images from years ago & the street views are courtesy of our dear friends & nosey neighbors at Google.

        Reply
        1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

          Actually, that pic was as recent as Spring. The leaves had popped out, but my horse trailer was still where I left it over the winter (filled with all the parts of my ’69 Chevy truck that I restored while it was cool in the workshop!)

          Reply
          1. By Lou Schirmer on

            My street view was April 2016, on a Tuesday, since the garbage can was out on the street. It even has a shot of my neighbor coming out to get hers. They may have drones for the overhead shots, since you can move the Google map around for 3-D images. All I can tell from the overhead is it was sometime in the last four years & between march & October from the greenery.

    1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

      I agree with GSW. We visit here and there are a relatively small number of frequent contributors. We get to thinking it’s a semi private conversation but it’s not. LOTS of people see what we write. They are welcome and I’d be happy for them to join in, but WE need to remember they’re out there. You’re welcome to post your own coordinates. That’s up to you. Just don’t show off anybody else’s Somebody else posted mine and I confess, it did kind of bother me. I mean, I might’ve been running around on my tractor in the nude. With the picture up, though, I saw no point in not talking about it. And if anyone out there means me harm, I am pretty well equipped to stop them. Still, in the future, let’s all be a bit more mindful of each other’s privacy.

      Reply
      1. By donald j johnson on

        As best i could tell your location eas not posted. I was carefull to remove all in the pic that had anything one could identify the location with. Jidt the photograph with no address or gps location. Did i miss something.

        Reply
        1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

          I don’t know, Don, and I’m not mad, I just haven’t gotten used to folks being able to see me from space yet. It bothers me. Just the world we live in now, I guess. But probably a good idea to let people post their own moon view pics of their property if they want to, in the future.

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          1. By Matthieu on

            I fully understand your point: as you say we can say anything about ourselves and it’s our problem.

            I would also be delighted to know that there are pictures of me running naked in the garden on google earth. :p

            Talking about that, for those in need:
            43.293692, 3.530173 is a famous naturist spot.

            More seriously, here is an idea: we all enjoy the books and some spots on earth are really incredible. We can find some good ones that can end in the books (even if it’s not the same earth, we care only for the picture). Just imagine the added value of having a real satellite view of a specific spot. It would allow people to really live the battle and to understand the strategy (sorry of it’s not that obvious, I’m tired)

            Here are some ideas
            1) Fort de Salse 42.839719, 2.918095 (you can wiki it too)
            This one is INCREDIBLY important for the books: this fortress was build by spanish forces close to 1500. Iy’s a perfect example of low level towers before the age of Vauban. Many old dom fortresses (the first ones, in the north) probably look like this one as it was advanced tech in 1500-50

            2) Fort in the keys, 24.628687, -82.872971 a perfect example of the 3rd US system of coastal defenses. Probably a little bit too advanced for doms but really expect from Texans
            Wiki Fort Jefferson

            3) Fort Griswold, 41.353966, -72.079890, a small fort probably relevant for imperials + minor texan works

            Have fun

          2. By Steve Moore on

            I rely a lot on overhead views and street views in my insurance inspection business, and I rarely, if ever, see actual people in the overhead shots; detail just isn’t that good.It’s good enough to roughly measure buildings and that’s about it. Probably about the same amount of detail when the Traffic9 Nosycopter flies overhead.

            With the advent of drones, though, this opens up a whole new opportunity for wingshooting. What load would you reccommend, Taylor?

          3. By Charles Simpson on

            Now, now, shooting at aircraft is a federal offence 😉

          4. By donald j johnson on

            That is manned aircraft not drones. A person has the right to remove a threat to privacy at any time. If the threat is in the sky the shotgun is legal as no other option is viable other than a Jammer which is also illegal unless you’re a law enforcement agency.

          5. By Matthieu on

            “That is manned aircraft not drones. A person has the right to remove a threat to privacy at any time. If the threat is in the sky the shotgun is legal”

            Nonsense. You have the right to complain and to ask the police to find the author. Nothing more, nothing less. You just don’t know if it’s, for example, a survey drone (no picture, just some radar and/or automated measures of the atmosphere).

          6. By Matt White on

            //Nonsense. You have the right to complain and to ask the police to find the author. Nothing more, nothing less. You just don’t know if it’s, for example, a survey drone (no picture, just some radar and/or automated measures of the atmosphere).//

            The FAA limits how low commercial airspace is. In the US you actually do own the airspace above your land and control it to a certain height. I want to say its 500 feet which no manned aircraft would be flying below unless it was actively landing or taking off. As for shooting at drones we have had cases of that happening and so far the courts have come on the side of the property owners. It would really depend on location and circumstances though. Anyone flying a drone over private property without express permission from the owner is committing trespassing. There are also other variables and considerations that come into play such as are their children outside, how low is the drone flying, is it actively flying over someone else’s property or did it just pass over and keep going etc. In the case of the drone being shot down it happened in a rural area with no risk of the gun causing collateral damage and there weren’t any local ordinances in place about firing weapons on private property. The pilot did trespass with the drone and it did stay in the airspace over the other party’s property which lead them to believe (reasonably so I might add) that they were being spied on. So they did what any Kentuckian would do and shot the intruder right out of the sky.

            The pilot was obviously pissed off but the court essentially told him that’s what you get for flying your drone on someone else’s land. There have been a slew of recent incidents of drones being flown by amateurs that crash into people and property. In some cases causing a fair bit of property damage and in others sending people to the hospital. One infant was permanently maimed by a crashing drone. So concern about an unknown drone flying around is real.

            As for drones being used for official purposes they would never fly that low without first getting permission to do so. Government drones would not need to fly that low, and if it was a commercial group they would request permission and likely compensate the owner for the use of their land. The only drones flying around violating private airspace are ones flown by amateurs who don’t know of or care about the law.

          7. By Steve Moore on

            I believe I’ll wait until I can find a nice tight-beam directed energy weapon to fry those little suckers. Or maybe take up falconry. Maybe even my own drone, equipped with Silly String.

          8. By Justin on

            Tell it to the French and Dutch – they’re sending trained eagles after drones.

        2. By Steve Moore on

          Jeez, Don, they’re not birdbrains (that the PETA folks). Give the falcons credit for some smarts. Watch Matthieu’s video (and the one after, for using drones to go after killer bees (or at least the European version).

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    1. By Lou Schirmer on

      I think Paul’s got that covered. I’ve been hunkered down while Irma went through. Been out helping the neighbor lady cutting up downed tree branches this morning.

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        1. By Matthieu on

          He was probably talking about mine :)

          Talking about that, you can notice how different things are. For people around me:
          – wood made houses just don’t exist. I’s incredibly uncommon. A house means stone or bricks. Wood is good enough for cabins and that’s it
          – the typical US residential areas just don’t and can’t exist here. The whole idea of “city block” just doesn’t exist and most cities and villages at at least 800-1500 years old leading to strange streets (some of them even following roman roads).
          – a proper house has a gate. If you live in a city or in the middle part of the village, your garden is completely in the back.
          – no private property on the sea front. The law prevents anybody from owning the last 30 meters and allows free passage.

          Some places that you would love :
          500m from my job: 50.640798, 3.044785 Looks like a fort attacked by doms? :)
          My vineyard 43.528740, 3.329435

          Reply
          1. By Steve Moore on

            Wasn’t Shinya a history major when he attended school in California? His fort looks like a duplicate of this one. I can’t remember what Brister’s fort at Baalkapaan looked like, and my entire library is now on the road.

          2. By Justin on

            Practically every fort of the muzzle-loader era was five-sided.

            Why a pentagon? See, with a triangular or square fort, the enemy can take cover in a “dead zone” right under the corner towers; a pentagon allows the tower on each side to get an angle on that area and sweep it clear.
            Hexagons and heptagons work too, but they’re usually larger, more complex – Shinya was probably in a hurry and wanted Defiance built simple and fast. Ditto Fort Atkinson back in Baalkpan.

          3. By donald johnson on

            with all the woodlands around it they wouldn’t even see anyone coming. they need to do some clearing in the woods around it.

          4. By donald johnson on

            Note that this fort is not a pentagon but a 5 pointed star. A pentagon has parts that you cannot cover but the star does not. The star actually has 10 sides not 5 like a pentagon. the other advantage of the 5 sided star is you can contain a breakthrough to the arm and with a pentagon there is no possibility of that.

          5. By Alexey Shiro on

            Pentastar fort, to be precise. Old-fashioned but reliable design of muzzle-loading era, with the main goal of providing artillery and musketeers the good arcs of fire against massed enemy infantry.

          6. By donald johnson on

            Ikea House refers to a house that you assemble out of the box like all the stuff that Ikea sells. I would probably have referred to it as a sears house like the houses that sears was selling about 100 years out of its catalog. there are still a few around our city.

          7. By Steve Moore on

            Sorry, Matthieu, should have explained the reference. IKEA sells knocked-down houses just like their furniture. At the beginning of the 20th century, Sears Roebuck sold package houses, a lot of them are referred to as ‘Craftsman’ style and many are still around.

      1. By Lou Schirmer on

        Nice place. With a name like that you’d figure to be somewhere in Texas, not Maine.

        Reply
    1. By Lou Schirmer on

      You’ve got a nice place Matthieu. Fairly new also, as the street view shows open land with shrubs & trees.

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    2. By Steve Moore on

      Looks like you’re smack dab in the center of farm country. Nice. What’s the local crop?

      Reply
      1. By Matthieu on

        Well, I’m 20 km from Lille (1 million) and the area is very densely populated (you are right in the middle of Europe and you can name 150+ major battle or siege that happened less than 1 hour from home during the last 2500 years). Something is specific, though: building code is made such that villages remain villages with fields between them and it’s forbidden to build too much on fields leading to the strange view: dozens of villages instead of the classic residential areas.

        The house is only 5 year old. Crops here? Potatoes, corn, beta vulgaris (for sugar), chicory, potatoes, wheat, garden cress, carrots and more potatoes.

        Reply
        1. By Steve Moore on

          Yeah, noticed that when we visited France in 2008 for cousin’s wedding, somewhere south of Fecamp. A lot of what looked like flax, but the same thing, village-fields-village-fields. Neat.

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    3. By Steve Moore on

      Damn, look at all those trees in the middle of the known distance range.

      Reply
      1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

        I guess you’re talking about my range? The trees are red, white, and burr oaks, very tall, and most is cleared out around them down low. Lots of work every year, but at its best the place looks like a park. Anyway, I’ve got high, staggered earthen backstops at 30, 50, 75, 100, 125 150, 200, 250, and 300 yards from the primary shooting spot, (the little building with the wraparound porch near the middle), and I can engage targets at all ranges off-hand or from a good rest on a sturdy (shaded) bench from a comfy chair. All reloading equipment is right there in the building and I can work up and test loads in minutes. I have secondary and tertiary (shaded) :) benches that let me go to four and five hundred yards. The 30 and 50 yard ranges are mainly for pistols and smoothbore muskets, though I have a couple of smoothbores I trust to 100 yards. The 125 yard range is for stuff like rifled muskets with sights graduated in 100 yd increments, or any low velocity or round ball gun I might need to stretch just a tad past 100 yards. A mere 25 yards can make a big difference and I like to have that mental hold-over picture in my pocket. Anyway, I do 75% of my shooting at 300 or less, about as far as I have any business using standard open sights. I can easily go to 500 with match sights or a scope, and a short drive will let me shoot as far as my bullets will go. Back to the trees though, they really make it nice (besides the shade) because shooting around them keeps me used to real world shooting situations. Going from a formal, barren range into the woods can cause a little subconscious disorientation–a distraction I can do without.

        Reply
        1. By matthieu on

          I didn’t know that Alexey came to his home on a bike? (ok, ok, that was mean) :)

          Reply
        2. By Steve Moore on

          Nice. Where I grew up in CT, the neighbors go crazy over just firecrackers. When I ran an indoors range in college (underground, no windows, bolt-action .22 max) people still complained about the danger to people on the streets above.

          Guess the cannons are out in the puckybrush?

          Reply
        3. By donald johnson on

          Well his neighbor did complain when Taylor was doing some shooting in his back yard one 4th of July.
          I was not joking about the 600 lb pig. He has shot several in his back yard. Taylor says that the boar hogs can be a bit dangerous so he always goes armed when out there and I am not referring to the pair attached to his shoulders.

          Reply
  7. By Steve Moore on

    Geez, buy one or two alternate-history books on Amazoom and they start battering down the door of your inbox with pleas to buy something else. Most looks pretty formulaic, but they have some nice cover art with form-fitting spacesuits and large lung capacities…

    Reply
      1. By Lou Schirmer on

        Probably just up front personalities, presenting a very good first impression…putting their best boo, ah, foot forward.

        Reply
  8. By Justin on

    If they haven’t already, the Union should try making instant coffee powder for the Army and Marines. Water-cooled Brownings = hot water, and hot water + Nescafé = instant morale boost; the Cats and humans could care less if it tastes a bit like gun oil.

    It’s already a thing – the WWI British and Commonwealth used to shoot off a couple of bursts with their Vickers guns just to make tea!

    Reply
    1. By Charles Simpson on

      Would make a cute scene in a lull of battle, but not instant freeze drying is not somethin they are doing yet IMHO. But they can brew tea or coffee with hot water.

      Reply
  9. By Justin on

    Anyone else get the feeling that Catalina is going to bite it? She’s not exactly necessary after this…

    Reply
    1. By Steve Moore on

      Hopefully not, she could be the model of a new class of merchant shipping/armed cruiser/troop carrier. With better engines, a newer hull could run away from Griks & Doms, handle mountain fish or corsairs, energize a trans-Pacific trade route and help with a post-war Alliance. Give her a Nancy or two for scouting inland.

      Speaking of Santy Cat, wondering how the Aqua-Griks are coming along? Still think that they’d be a good ally for underwater work, like scraping weed or such. Just pay them off with a trawl or two full of fish, or maybe a hulk for a new Mother.

      Reply
      1. By Lenard Fleming on

        I THINK THAT IS AN EXCELLENT IDEA! Those critters are just sitting there, in that swamp, doing nothing. I suspect that Horne is Sylva’s eventual replacement (as much as we hate to think about it), but maybe Horne could adopt a squad of swamp-lizerd critters, for “Spec-Ops”.

        Reply
      2. By donald j johnson on

        They could always give back the Sandy Cat now that the P-40 and other supplies are gone from the holds and she is back to being a hulk from all her battle damage. They might appreciate that and reciprocate

        Reply
    2. By Lou Schirmer on

      The hints Taylor’s dropped indicated she’s going to be in a hell of a fight & lets not forget the Republic’s new battleship. The hints were three turrets of from 8-12″ guns & maybe up to 21 knots. She may not see action in this next one, but we may get a look at her, & the new CL might rushed into action too.
      Personally, I think the new Republic BB could probably be a bit faster. They’ve been playing with the Amerika’s engines for 30 years now & have been constructing smaller hulls. They also have larger & better than 8″ guns available to use (from a line dropped in an earlier book). The Republic Germans are familiar with dreadnaught type designs, so I don’t see why they couldn’t come up with a version similar to that, just without the wing guns. Something lighter than HMS Dreadnaught with three twin 10″-12″ guns & doing 23-24 knots should be doable for an established ship building nation, even as a first effort.

      Reply
      1. By Justin on

        Keep in mind how Devil’s Due describes the Imperators as protected cruisers: implying a class more like an upgunned version of Olympia, or at best (Admiral Spee’s) Scharnhorst.

        The Republic’s jumping from Civil War monitors straight to the High Seas Fleet. Experienced or not, we can’t fault them for starting with a couple of prototypes… and they’ll likely have plenty of books to iron all the kinks out.

        Reply
        1. By Lou Schirmer on

          Could you tell me what page they’re described on? I can’t find it.

          Reply
          1. By Justin on

            Middle of Chapter 10, with a brief mention in the Specs at the back. “Supposedly a type of protected cruiser with heavy guns, tentatively the Imperator class.”

      2. By Steve Moore on

        Just curious as to what is the time line for designing, building, commissioning and working up a whole new type of battle cruiser. Think things are happening magically quickly.

        Reply
        1. By Charles Simpson on

          Supposedly Spanky McFarlane did the design work for the new cruiser while on the beach resurrecting USS Walker during Distant Thunders while putting walker back together, designing and building a dry dock, and the cement plant to make the concrete. Busy boy!

          Reply
        2. By Lou Schirmer on

          The CL is basically similar to the Walker type DD’s just slightly bigger. For something like that, if it was preplanned, while they were getting the hull built, the machinery & 5.5″ guns & directors were being copied, three years is not out of the realm of possibility.

          For the Republics protected cruiser, built by a nation with a decent industrial base & experience with steel ships & heavy guns, 2-3 years from initial concept (when Savoie hit town) to launch is not unreasonable. These are not going to be high tech vessels & looking at the timeline for HMS Dreadnaught, from design to launching & commissioning only took a year & a half. Of course that was with an industry intimately familiar with steel warship construction, but it still shows how fast ships from that era could be built, as opposed to these days when it can take a decade or more from design to initial launch.

          Reply
          1. By Justin on

            Agreed, and agreed.

            Now, at the earliest, Savoie‘d be parked in Alex-aandra Harbour by the end of April, after Amerika set out to contact the then-Alliance. The next book’s set in December/January. That’s eight or so months between “Mein Kaiser, I think we need a proper f***ing Navy” and the present.
            Rest assured Steve, nothing’s being rushed; assuming several months for planning the Republic’s first blue water ships, let alone building them, I’d be surprised if they’ve finished the first keels yet.

          2. By Matt White on

            New weapons tend to not show up in the index in the book they first appear in. My guess is Taylor doesn’t want to spoil the unveil. It would be tempting to first flip to the back and look for any new weapons or ships listed before wading the story.

          3. By Lou Schirmer on

            //I’d be surprised if they’ve finished the first keels yet.//

            The keel & frames are probably up on the first ship, but we definitely won’t see the new protected cruiser in the next book. Depending on how much time passes, we may see it in 2019.
            Now we know it’s a protected cruiser of some sort, that narrows the speculation down a bit as to design specifics. 12″ guns are out, main battery will be 8″-10″ guns, maybe better versions of the monitors guns (higher velocity, longer range etc.). She’ll be down in the 8-12K ton range size wise. With that size & the machinery they’ve studied from Amerika, I don’t see why they can’t squeeze 23-24 knots out of her.

          4. By Alexey Shiro on

            //Now we know it’s a protected cruiser of some sort, that narrows the speculation down a bit as to design specifics.//

            Well, because she is protected cruiser, she doesn’t have any armored belt, only sloped armored deck.

            The question is, WHY the Republik would try to build a warship of clearly outdated design. And by outdated I mean outdated even from 1914’s point of view. The protected cruisers fell out of favour in late 1890s, by 1910s they were clearly the relics of the past, replaced in shipbuilding programs by the light turbine cruisers (which were actually light ARMORED cruisers, because they have an armored belt).

          5. By Generalstarwars333 on

            Well, the republic has a history of making good field guns, so they could have an excellent secondary armament. This could keep away things like destroyers that could get in close enough to be hitting the armor belt. For bigger things, they’d probably try to stay at long range where fire would hit the armored deck and not the belt. Or it’s possible that the wrong term was used. *shrugs*

          6. By Justin on

            It’s confusing, since the Republic’s breaking the conventional tech tree. An ironclad protected cruiser with “heavy guns?” Won’t find that anywhere in the history books.

            However, returning to the old discussion all the way back in February, our author Republic BuShips wants a cruiser, battleship AND coastal defence unit all in one package – closer to a weak armoured cruiser or a slow WWI-era panzerschiffe than an actual protected cruiser.

            So I’m guessing that The Powers That Be want 12-inchers in a relatively small hull (so they can proudly claim they have a “battleship”), slowing the cruisers down to 20 knots and leave little tonnage for protection.
            So they’d have the cruisers in a battle line, counting on their superior range and massed firepower to sink/deter enemy ships before lack of armour becomes a problem. Probably won’t work in practice, but the Republic doesn’t know that yet.

          7. By Lou Schirmer on

            The book calls it a “type of protected cruiser”, so it may have some side (belt) armor as well. Armored cruisers weren’t totally obsolete when the Amerika arrived, so it may look more like that than a true protected cruiser.

          8. By Alexey Shiro on

            Guys, we seems to have some misunderstanding here. The protected cruiser is by definition a warship, which have only sloped deck as defense. The protected cruiser COULD NOT have an armored belt – she would be ARMORED CRUISER in that case.

            The “light cruisers” of World War I were initially defined as “light ARMORED cruisers” – exactly because they have armored belts.

            So the question is simple; if Republican ship have armored belt, she could not possibly be a protected cruiser.

          9. By Lou Schirmer on

            Maybe the Republic is using their own designation for the new class. “Protected” in their nation could mean anything from a true protected cruiser (sloped armored deck over the machinery & magazines) to a BC. All we’ve heard so far are vague, general statements without any specifics. We can speculate all we want, but won’t know for sure until she’s launched.

          10. By Charles Simpson on

            The Republic is going with fast and dirty to get a blue water capable ship for it’s fleet. “Protected Crusiers” use fuel bunkers as armor so probably coal burners, therefore limited range. What we may see is a trade, 4″ 50 DPs for secondary armament traded for 75mm field guns. Giving the Republic’s Blue water navy a more capable secondary, and the Union a more capable field piece.

          11. By Lou Schirmer on

            They could also trade heavy naval artillery for steam turbines.

          12. By Justin on

            4″/50s and turbines are probably going to have to wait for the next class – after all, the Imperators are being designed and built without Union collaboration.

          13. By Steve Moore on

            Well, guys, its a different world, so they can call them anything they want. I personally would go for Bangers magnis sánguinum.

          14. By Matt White on

            So the Imperators will probably look something like Santy Cat then. Big-ish, but not BB big, ad-hoc armor scheme, coal burner and heavy guns. Effective against anything the Grik or Doms have but just as useless against the League as the Monitors were.

          15. By Justin on

            Sounds about right. The Imperators sound like prototypes, being built to provide a fleet-in-being while they figure out what works and what doesn’t for the REAL first cruisers.

            Or so we hope… the Republic might delude themselves into thinking they have an actual fleet of battleships, sortie them against the League and get utterly wiped.

          16. By donald johnson on

            //Bangers magnis sánguinum//

            Well Bloody big they would be and so would the Bang be when hit by a 14 inch gun projectile

      3. By Justin on

        Coming back to the Imperator class, what’re the naming conventions? Actual Roman Imperators, or Republic Kaisers, or just names that start with “I?” Or is it just the lead ship, the rest having other Latin titles such as Consul and Venator and Arbiter?

        Reply
  10. By Paul Millsted on

    I think I’m going to be looking back on Devils Due as ‘that one where everybody died’I’m not sure if it is just fatigue or how it really stacks up against the other books with how many named characters died but it sure feels like every page someone was introduced and then promptly got killed or someone from who had managed to survive the last time they were mentioned in the series popped up again only to die.

    Reply
    1. By Charles Simpson on

      Over all of named characters ((110 deceased/309 named characters)x100)= 34% Note this is the whole time of the books, and includes the pre-transfer dead.

      Devil’s Due New Characters (((11 deceased/28 new characters)x100)=39.3% Note I include Haan-Dar “Lucky Handy” as lost, and I think I’joorka will probably die of his burns.

      The Republic lost 1 of three armies (Less the brigade Baakia commands) or 33% of their combat strength. A similar loss occurred in South America with the new commander of the Army of God.

      Looking at the skuggit innards my necromancy predict similar losses to defeat the poorly equipped but more numerous foes both east and west.

      Reply
          1. By Lou Schirmer on

            He really needs to get to the roots of the problem or his issues will start to branch out & infect others with his prickly attitude.

          2. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            I gotta share a glorious pun I threw at my wife last night. Watching TV, I put my (pretty huge) feet up in the air, blocking her view (which she hates) and said “Look! It’s a sole-ar eclipse!” First time she ever laughed at one of my puns instead of just rolling her eyes.

          3. By Lou Schirmer on

            Have you guys seen video of the scrotal eclipse? I almost posted the link, after which you would need a bucket of Taylor’s brain cleaner & some steel wool, but this is a family site after all. :)

          4. By Charles Simpson on

            It’s Taylor who needs the brain bleach after a certain unnamed French Leaguer who’s favorite phrase is “I know the way to the door,” makes another off color pun.

          5. By Matthieu on

            Huhuhu… I just love this one.

            Come with me outside, it’s cool but it’s raining. Once you’re outside, bend with me.

            As you’re in Texas, it’s ain’t Kansas any more, so over the rain, bow.

            —————————————-

            I can also see that, little by little, I’m corrupting your virgin and pure minds. You’ll soon all belong to me :)

          6. By Steve Moore on

            Well, at least now Pam will have Silva to herself. Just have to get Larry fixed up. Hopefully he won’t have the genetic urge to start selecting the hatchlings; I think it’d be funny to have some differences in Griks. Maybe some nerd Griks? Or perhaps a poetess?

          7. By donald j johnson on

            I suspect that we will discover that it is Matthieu that is getting corrupted by our comments and not us being corrupted by his. His puns are getting much easier to understand

          8. By Matthieu on

            It’s just that I get you educated by my knowledge

            (it is arrogant enough? If it’s not, the answer is “I adapt to the audience”). Hihihi.

          9. By Charles Simpson on

            Speaking of Earthy Language did anyone else notice the more colorful phraseology of Devil’s Due. Even Gunny Horn complained to Matt Reddy about his language!

          1. By Lou Schirmer on

            I think we’re talking Sandra’s assistant Diana.

      1. By Lenard Fleming on

        Very impressive Alchemy, my friend! Very impressive.

        If they break this into an RPG (If it isn’t already), you should be on the R&R for that…lol

        Reply
  11. By Steve Moore on

    As I mentioned, introduced my brother in law to DM and now he’s ripped through 6 books in less than six weeks. Likes the realism, was never a sci-fi fan, more a Civil War buff. After him, going to try my brother who is into military fiction.

    Reply
    1. By Alexey Shiro on

      Heh) You have really devious mind, Steve… I like that! 😉

      Reply
      1. By Steve Moore on

        trying to get him to spring for the 2018 opus.
        Meanwhile, I have a mass-market paperback of BITW on order from the Amazooons.. $5 plus $4 shipping for a used title, vs $8 for a new version that kicks back another royalty to the chief. I thought I could get away with using the library as procurer for DM books but not too many order them. Since I have a spare paper copy of DD, that will go to the local library for a tax deduction,

        Reply
  12. By Matthieu on

    Over complicated and over budget

    The topic of the day is: why are all weapon programs late and over budget?

    First, we need to notice that this is a common problem in military products but our view is skewed by the fact that it’s mainly a problem nowadays and mainly in the USA.

    If we look at the past, the country has been able to design, produce and filed on time a huge number of weapons. Some were incredibly efficient ones: the Fletcher class, the F-16, the A-10 ….

    Some programs are complete nightmares: Ford class (for the moment), LCS, F-35… You can see a short list here: https://warontherocks.com/2014/12/top-10-failed-defense-programs-of-the-rma-era/

    Now the goal is not to say that it’s good nor bad but to find why those programs are failing. For me the main reasons are:
    – asking too much from technology and implementing untested ones (ex: Ford class catapults)
    – spending money on the program to please political men (probably the F-35)
    – changing world: you design a weapon to fight the wrong war
    – asking for too many changes in the product
    – asking the product to do too many things at the same time (and thus being sub optimal for everything)
    – listening too much to a given group (“pilots” or “IT designers”)
    – always trying to implement new gadgets (honestly, who cares about the fact that the F-35 “has net-warfare capabilities” when the weapon bay is still overheating).

    Now what’s the link with destroyermen? Are they going to be able to avoid this problem? Are they going to design a weapon that they wont be able to mass produce (for example a radar) or are they going to spend money on the wrong weapon?

    Reply
    1. By William Curry on

      The reason why most project go over budget is that if people were told what the probable actual cost is up front, the project would never get funded. It a buy in price, once your started it’s hard to stop with out throwing aqay all the money you’ve already spent.

      Reply
      1. By Steve Moore on

        Not to mention; add this little thing, that little thing, until you have a sluggish Swiss Army knife of a plane that does NOTHING well. Maybe if they just made drones, they could make them cheap enough.

        Reply
        1. By Justin on

          Right. The problem is that the Pentagon tries to save money (via interchangeable parts and ammo, etc) by combining two or more different combat roles – the Bradley IFV and McNamara’s TFX, for example. Then they belatedly realize that the roles were separate for a reason.
          I could save on my water bill by combining my kettle, my dishwasher and my laundry machine… so long as I’m prepared to get grease in my clothes and soap in my tea.

          Reply
          1. By Clifton Sutherland on

            Not to mention the acquisition system- when pitching a new weapons system or program, the best way to get funding is to promise to have part of the product built in a certain politician’s district. Soon, in order to have enough votes, a tank is being built across 30 states in 100 different plants, raising costs considerably in many cases

    2. By Joe Thorsky on

      Matthiew -Everyone

      When it comes to technology and its advancement and adoption; it comes down to what do you want it to do and will (can?) it do the job as advertised.
      The post-pre WWI-II Era is so remarkable and so unique is do in need
      for further scholarly investigation exactly because the American population was better prepared for a total war against totalitarianistic philosophies than the institutionalized military services of the US Army and the US Navy.
      The importance of both the Great Depression and Prohibition just can’t be summarily discounted/dismissed.

      Other Important Technological Developments for Taylor to consider incorporating in future works might include:

      1 Anti-Submarine Trawlers
      “The naval trawler is a concept for expeditiously converting a nation’s fishing boats and fishermen to military assets. England used trawlers to maintain control of seaward approaches to major harbors. No one knew these waters as well as local fishermen, and the trawler was the ship type these fishermen understood and could operate effectively without further instruction. The Royal Navy maintained a small inventory of trawlers in peacetime, but requisitioned much larger numbers of civilian trawlers in wartime. The larger and newer trawlers and whalers were converted for antisubmarine use and the older and smaller trawlers were converted to minesweepers.”…
      From

      2 Submarine Aircraft Carriers
      submarines equipped with fixed-wing aircraft for observation or attack missions. These submarines saw their most extensive use during World War II, although their operational significance remained rather small. The most famous of them were the Japanese I-400 class submarine and the French submarine Surcouf, although a few similar craft were built by other nations’ navies as well.
      The submarine aircraft carriers which were actually built, with the exception of the I-400 and AM classes, all used their aircraft in supporting roles, usually for reconnaissance. This is in contrast to the typical surface aircraft carrier, whose main function is serving as a base for combat aircraft
      From
      http://military.wikia.com/wiki/Submarine_aircraft_carrier>

      http://military.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_submarine-borne_aircraft

      3 MAC Aircraft Carriers
      British RN created original type of ships, so-called “merchant aircraft carriers” (MAC) in the Second World War. They were rebuilt from tankers and grain carriers and outwardly resembled escort aircraft carriers but stored cargo holds and tanks. In spite of the fact that some of them had not only a continuous flight deck, but also a hangar and lift, as a matter of fact they were nevertheless merchant vessels and their main task was a carriage of goods. Aircraft served only as reconnaissance means and self-defence, besides the (Entire) air group consisted (in total) all from 3-4 planes.”….

      From

      4 The Focke Achgelis Fa-330 Bachstelze (Wagtail) “The Fa-330 Rotary Wing Kite, built in Germany during WW II, operated on the principle of the autogyro. The aircraft was designed to provide an elevated observation platform for one man while being towed behind a surfaced submarine. It was attached to the submarine by a steel cable working from a winch on the deck.”….
      “This was a rotor kite, towed behind a U-boat to increase its vision range. The scheme was abandoned because it cost too much time to recover it and the observer on it when the U-boat was attacked. About 200 were built.”…

      From

      5 The Autogyro
      A-“The Avro Rota autogyro was used by the Royal Air Force to calibrate the coastal radar stations during and after the Battle of Britain. In World War II, Germany pioneered a very small gyroglider rotor kite, the Focke-Achgelis Fa 330 “Bachstelze” (Water-wagtail), towed by U-boats to provide aerial surveillance.
      B- “The Imperial Japanese Army developed the Kayaba Ka-1 Autogyro for reconnaissance, artillery-spotting, and anti-submarine uses. The Ka-1 was based on the Kellett KD-1 first imported to Japan in 1938. The craft was initially developed for use as an observation platform and for artillery spotting duties. The Army liked the craft’s short take-off span, and especially its low maintenance requirements. Production began in 1941, with the machines assigned to artillery units for spotting the fall of shells. These carried two crewmen: a pilot and a spotter.
      Later, the Japanese Army commissioned two small aircraft carriers intended for coastal antisubmarine (ASW) duties. The spotter’s position on the Ka-1 was modified to carry one small depth charge. Ka-1 ASW autogyros operated from shore bases as well as the two small carriers. They appear to have been responsible for at least one submarine sinking.”…..

      From

      Best reference material and basic scientific information on the
      autogyros can be found and accessed at
      “Skyworks Global” Website
      http://skyworks-global.com/

      Reply
      1. By Matthieu on

        All those experiments are well known and were operational/engineering failures. There is also a complete lack of requirement for those programs.

        The reason why most project go over budget is that if people were told what the probable actual cost is up front, the project would never get funded.

        Why would people believe manufacturers? And why does it fail to deliver the intended product? For me the main problem is a current lack of guidance for those programs: the company comes with a new gadget that is not working and provides only a marginal gain for a tremendous cost.

        The second problem is that the army should know what they really need and not a fancy and impossible to maintain device.

        The third one is mixing “works as intended” and “the most technological it is the better it is”. Just look at the low cost / low tech devices used by some groups in Syria: some basic drones with a grenade or two. It’s low tech. The price is incredibly low and it’s not perfect but it’s a nuisance and it works (unfortunately).

        Right now destroyermen need is a good design group. You can read about the Fighter Mafia. It’s really interesting to know how the F15 and F16 (both successes ) were designed:

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighter_Mafia

        Reply
        1. By Justin on

          Three words – military industrial complex.

          The generals and politicians get their Big Shiny Thing, the voters get their jobs, the corporations get their money… and occasionally, the engineers get a massive headache because the BST is solid waste excretion.

          Reply
          1. By Lou Schirmer on

            Don’t forget, the generals immediately get hired by the makers of said BST after they recommend/approve it.

        2. By Steve Moore on

          Maybe the thing would be to require all military people involved with procurement to add 10 years to their required length of service.

          Reply
          1. By Lou Schirmer on

            Most of the festering hemorrhoids are already near mandatory retirement & so deep into echelons beyond reality they are of no use militarily. The US military is so incredibly top heavy rank wise, it’s amazing anything gets done at all. We could get rid of 75% of our generals & admirals & not miss a beat.

          2. By Matthieu on

            To be honest the problem is not only in the military : the main reason why all US efforts against guerilla fail can be summarized by a single sentence: you giver them less than the other side! Consistently, war after war, USA support a bunch of corrupt and inept local leaders lacking a strong popular base. And you wonder why it fails?

            You want to win such a war? Two possibilities: get people to follow you by giving them more or terrorize them enough to make them stay.

        3. By Joe Thorsky on

          Matthieu

          The fault wasn’t the tech or the equipment its was the collective failure of the human element to adapt and innovate is where the blame should be course corrected.
          Seems that there’s a “Buy Now; Fly Maybe Later” philosophy that is actively at work and pay right now.
          Isn’t that Wright Orville? Wilbur?!

          Reply
        4. By William Curry on

          It’s management by Technocrats. “We’re the experts so you have to believe us.” That’s what you get with “Progressive” government. Doesn’t matter if it’s socialist, capitalist, royalist or whatever. “The experts know best” People get promoted based on how much budget they control, not weather it works as intended or not. Most large organizations are rule rather than results driven. It OK to screw up royally as long as you didn’t break the rules (and get caught).

          Reply
        5. By Charles Simpson on

          Sweetheart cost plus contracts to favored suppliers the fact of life in modern America. It is not the current situation in the Union where basically manufacture is socialist-communist controlled by the government. During WW 1 the Railroads were so run, laws against labor strikes during war etc. Letts has a plan for privatizing industry post war being against socialism.

          Reply
          1. By Joe Thorsky on

            Charles
            A better read and understanding of the naval environment
            pre WW1 to post WW2 is Alexander W Moffat’s Maverick Navy
            Good First hand account of Anti- submarine operations-tactics
            in both world wars.
            Surprised to have just gotten a HC First Ed Book not the Movie
            of Away All Boats by Kenneth Dobson. The book mirrors story/history
            of USS Pierce and is a very good read.

            Fyi – Development of A-10, XB-70-B1 and SR-71 aircraft were successful programs. A different story when compared to the Whizkiddies and Whizbangers Fiasco of the Joint (Smoke ’em-you
            had two) TFX Fighter FB-111.

          2. By William Curry on

            The FB-111 was a good example of management by technocrat “experts”.

          3. By donald johnson on

            The B52 is a classic example of the technoids UPGRADING classic equipment that should have been retired 25 years ago

          4. By Lou Schirmer on

            Another problem the FB-111 had was it was mandated to be used by both the AF & navy (like the F-4) by Robert Macnamara & as a result was overweight for the AF & underpowered for the navy. The technology just couldn’t make it happen. Macnamara is a sore point for a different topic.

            The B-52 is still in service for a number of reasons. It’s simpler to maintain than the B-1 or B-2, costs less to operate (a LOT less than the B-2) & while less capable in a penetration role, is just as capable or more so than the others when we have control of the air space. It’s like an old pickup truck, if it’s maintained well, it works just as well as the new ones, is more reliable, but may not have all the shiny new stuff like OnStar, GPS, heated seats, wifi etc.. Plus you don’t mind picking up a few dings in the paint. If we lose a B-2, that’s a billion dollars or more gone & a significant chunk of a very small fleet, the B-1 somewhat less so. If we lose a B-52, the main thing would be the air crew & they have a good chance at survival.

          5. By Alexey Shiro on

            Generally the same with our Tu-95… albeit all our current fleet of Tu-95 was build in 1980s, so they actually aren’t as old in therms of airframes.

            The Tu-95 are reliable, they have really great range and good payload. As missile carriers, they are cheaper per munition delivered than more modern Tu-22M or Tu-160.

          6. By Steve Moore on

            Maybe we should send congressmen on combat missions. Sort of a ‘term limits’ kind of thing… but then look what happened to Vice Regent N’galsh.

      2. By Alexey Shiro on

        //1 Anti-Submarine Trawlers//

        Would not work. No trawlers avaliable! The best Union have is Empire’s small paddle steamers, and they simply aren’t numerous enough.

        //2 Submarine Aircraft Carriers//

        Currently Union have no submarines, far less capable of carrying aircraft. Considering that such tech aren’t simple, I really doubt that Union should invest a lot in it…

        Reply
        1. By Steve Moore on

          I agree with Alexey; leave fishing vessels to the fishermen. Build something smaller for inshore patrol work, like wooden-hull subchasers or E-boats. Eventually, the fishermen will want motor trawlers, and they’ll have the expertise.

          Reply
          1. By Alexey Shiro on

            It would took a long time, until any significant number of Lemurian could afford motor trawler… unless they go to more or less planned economy and start to make worker cooperatives. Big problem of capitalism – it is pretty ineffective in jump-starting the modern economy…

          2. By Matt White on

            Don’t discount the massive surplus market of ships that will surely appear once the war is over. The Union navy is transitioning to steel ships. All of those wooden steamships are already obsolete and still serve simply because they haven’t built enough steel ships yet. Sooner or later someone is going to devise a standard pattern fleet merchant design that will replace the wooden ships. Those wooden ships would be auctioned off as surplus not unlike what happened at the end of both worlds wars. That is going to put them in the hands of private merchants relatively inexpensively. You’re also creating a huge class of educated veterans who will be trained in valuable skills post war as well. The sailors will be able to easily transition to the merchant fleets and the Craftsmen will be able to move into working in the peacetime industry. There will definitely be some growing pains and the society the destroyemen are building wont look exactly like anything we’ve ever seen before but I doubt they will have major problems.

          3. By Steve Moore on

            Well, assuming that the surplus ships can be fitted with electricity and therefore refrigeration, you’ve got automatic ‘factory’ ships that can service small craft, just like the Homes did with grikkaka. The APD’s, with their plane handling gear, would fit in well here.

            You’ve got the supplyline steamers, (derivatives of the Scott class?) to serve as inter-island passenger/merchant vessels, as well as the aforementioned APDs. Don’t forget all the motor dories from the Andaamaan and her sisters. Who knows, maybe some bright destroyerman will start building Higgins boats in the Fil=Pins….

          4. By Alexey Shiro on

            //There will definitely be some growing pains and the society the destroyemen are building wont look exactly like anything we’ve ever seen before but I doubt they will have major problems.//

            Problem is, it would take years. This is VERY HARD to build the working capitalism in essentially a vacuum – especially with a severe concurrence of much more developed powers. The Republik have better industry, and could easily out-preform the Union in therms of goods. The Empire have better merchant marine and a large network of colonial stations. In such situation, it would be very hard to build a working economy for Union without using the prohibitive custom rates.

        2. By Joe Thorsky on

          Alexey- Guys
          While all your points for not travelling the path you
          suggest are valid. But tweaking, adaptation, adjusting
          and innovation are the abs necessities of any good
          successful commander.
          aka Grant @ Vicksburg.
          Still, best use of available resources and abilities of
          subordinates is the guiding principle that works in all
          eras all wars.
          FYI-A disarmament crazy post-war populace experienced from
          both the establishment of Air Mail Service and a US Coast
          Guard and Treasury Department bloodied in a standoff enforcement of Prohibition against rum runners moonshiners and smugglers is the social fabric environment that Taylor’s universe operates even in conjunction with the after effects of the Great Depression are considered.
          It would not surprise me at all to see prizes of war and their technology suddenly be auctioned LLeas(h)ed to the Alliance by the NUS.
          If you need ships and planes you go and deal with the people who can provide supply them to you.

          Reply
          1. By Steve Moore on

            That’s the rub, we don’t know yet what the NUS has to offer; or, what kind of useful prizes they could secure with muzzle-loaders and steamships.

            Just my Monday morning brain, but wondering how easy it would be to build a rail line between San Diego and Brownsville. The Pasa del Fuego still has tide & current problems for merchant shipping, and that way the NUS and Empire folks can get better acquainted through the USN as intermediary. Probably plenty of folks to hire with the new allies the Alliance is making on the Pacific Coast, and give them a chance to build their economy.

          2. By Justin on

            Keep in mind the time and effort a developed country needs to build a railway. For example, the Baltimore & Ohio took the better part of two years to build.

            Now consider that the hypothetical St Jacob & Brownsville is twice as long as the B&O and has half as much manpower and industry to call upon. Definitely possible, just not soon enough to help win the war.

          3. By Charles Simpson on

            Railroads take a lot of steel to build esentially a USS Walker every few miles, (10 IIRC) so that 100 USS Walkers worth of steel.

          4. By Justin on

            And don’t forget that period locomotives can’t make it across three states without stopping for maintenance or to restock fuel/water/sand. The Allies need waystations, and that means they’ll need a few settlements along the route.

          5. By Steve Moore on

            My Tuesday brain realizes that now. Must be those magic beans I grind up and consume every morning.

          6. By Alexey Shiro on

            Why do you assume that NUS would be eager to support the Union? They have League to worry about.

          7. By Justin on

            They’re both American (albeit different) – and the enemy of your enemy IS usually your friend. If the Union can prove that they can beat the League, why not team up?

      3. By Steve Moore on

        Time is short, and these are long-term projects. Better to use proven technology and build the learning curve across the whole Alliance. If they need a spotter, use a Fleashooter or build a radial powered J-3. APD’s and Nancy’s serve pretty well, and are ready now.

        The background has been pretty realistic so far; but let’s remember where the DM came from; the Asiatic Fleet and the Great Depression, both hardscrabble times.

        Reply
    3. By Matt White on

      Why? Well for starters because of crap like this: https://youtu.be/aXQ2lO3ieBA

      But I think there is more too it than that. It’s definitely true that too many cooks ruin the stew but I also think it’s a time thing as well. Now we’ll never go back to making a new fighter in 100 days like the mustang but the military development and procurement process is practically glacial. Not only does it allow for too many different people to weigh in on a design and mess with it but at the pace of technological advancement new systems become obsolete before they are finished and have to be rapidly reworked mid development to still be worth it. Look at the F-22, undoubtedly the state of the art with fighter aircraft. The development process started 31 years ago….. It’s predecessor the F-15 started development in 1967, first flew in 1972 and was being deployed to active air wings in 1976. In the time it took the F-22 to go from an initial design to its first flight the F-15 did that AND was operational. Hell, if they had been a bit quicker it could have been ready for Vietnam.

      For the F-22 the designers were allowed 50 months to work on their prototypes before testing. In that time the requirements changed. They wanted an IRST, which was dropped. Side mounted radars, which were dropped. And an all new ejection seat which was also dropped. Then from the first flight in 1997 it took another 10 years before it was ready. Why exactly? Just to give perspective in 1997 your PC had a 133mhz single core, 32bit Pentium MMX cpu and 16 megs of ram. In 2008 it had a 3.4ghz, dual core 64bit Core2Dou with 4 gigs of ram, how would the radar and EWAR systems designed in the mid 90’s be relevant when a consumer PC had several orders of magnitude more processing power? We went from cellphones that were slightly smaller than the original Motorola brick but were still grayscale and incredibly expensive to the iPhone which was more powerful than that 1997 PC and was a commodity.

      I know processing power isn’t everything but I think it’s a good way to show how these timescales are impractical.

      There’s more to it though. We’ve changed what our hardware means to us in a doctrinal sense. In WW2 and even as recent as Vietnam out best weapon systems were still at the end of the day expendable. A Mustang was expendable. Losing one and its pilot was a tragedy but how many did we lose in WW2? A bunch, that’s for sure. Same with the F-4. Lost a few hundred of those in Vietnam too. What do you think would be the reaction if we lost 10 F-22s in a conflict? What about the F-35? The per unit cost is supposed to be a third of the F-22 but the program cost is already far higher. Wasn’t it supposed to be cheaper?

      We’ve fooled ourselves, in many ways. Development takes too long. Has input from too many people who don’t know what they are talking about. It has the requirements changed mid development. Technology passes the program by while it’s in development. We pork barrel the hell out of the program to make it look good to congress. We cut unit procurement so we keep the rising costs from the above issues down. Which makes it actually more expensive when the production line is shit down and the tooling is lost. We expect it to do everything and be unbeatable because we are America and we’re just that good. And somehow we expect the designs to stay relevant for decades.

      This all means lack of focus in design, massive delays in development and procurement. Huge cost overruns and a jack of all trades, master of none design. The F-35 is lame not because it’s bad at any one job but because there is something cheaper and better for all the jobs. The F-22 is a better fighter. The A-10 is better at CAS. The harrier is a better VTOL. The F-16 is a better fighter-bomber.

      We need lean, dedicated aircraft that have development times measured in a handful of years, not decades. By conventional timescales the F-22 should be a museum piece and the F-35 should be on its F model by now.

      Reply
      1. By Joe Thorsky on

        Matt-Guys

        What’s an Air Force to do when low tech and flying fod
        aka Dirt/Dust clouds and Unwatched Birdie strikes can ruin
        your whole day and down a 50 million dollar flying goldbrick.

        Alexey
        Did You forget about the Cossack/Mriya AN225 Cargo Transport?

        Taylor- Glad to know your back! and that everythings Ok with you.
        As to the possiblility of a LLeas(h)ed agreement
        for prizes of war between the Alliance and the NUS
        could A “Rivera” Summit between the Presidents of the American-clans
        aka President of NUS and Matt Reddy CINCAF be in the (Not Water) works?
        An agreed upon outline of postwar reconstruction is needed.

        Reply
  13. By Lou Schirmer on

    Taylor, I imagine you’re keeping an eye on Harvey. Hope it turns away from you. Have fun.

    Reply
    1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

      Yeah, it’s aiming right at me. I mean, it won’t be a hurricane anymore by the time it gets overhead, but we’ve already had an unusual amount of rain here for August. Flooding could be a real problem.

      Reply
      1. By Lou Schirmer on

        They’re talking about up to 35″ of rain in some spots & Texas is mostly flat as a pancake. If you see a guy named Noah, might want to tag along.

        Reply
        1. By Steve Moore on

          Good time to own a pontoon boat, especially if you have a hot dog cart…

          Reply
      2. By Joe Thorsky on

        Taylor

        “Harvey” not the movie or Broadway play is a vary deadly storm
        especially for those who haven’t had experienced SE Asian
        Monsoons and the logistics disasters that habitually accompany them.
        Family-Personal safety should be first concern/priority.
        Be Safe!!!!!

        Reply
        1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

          Thanks Joe, we will. Should be OK here. Looks like it’s going to hang out a little to the South. I have family down there and I’m pretty worried about them, but they’re sensible.

          Reply
          1. By Joe Thorsky on

            Taylor as Long as you and your family are safe
            is all that matters. Have had concerns for relations
            living in San Antonio until I got phone call from them.
            Been on a Temporary Tethered Medical Furlough Deferment for
            another 8-10 weeks. Been studiously examining the effects of
            both Great Depression and Prohibition had on US population
            and their preparedness for waging Total War.
            Interesting Era That- especially the works of
            Coolridge pp-40-45 aka Why Coolridge Matters-Charles C Johnson
            and Foundations of the Republic-C Coolridge pp174-79

            As A Civil War Preservationalist this one is for you to ponder.

            Crazy Old Soldier mp3 Ray Charles
            America the Beautiful mp3 Ray Charles
            A.P.O. San Francisco mp3 Jessie Nighthawk
            GI Blues mp3 Elvis Presley
            Yankee Man of War mp3 Bonnie Milner

            “There is no grievance that is a fit object for redress by mob law.”

            “Most governments have been based, practically, on the denial of equal rights of men, as I have, in part, stated them; ours began by affirming these rights. They said, some men are too ignorant, and vicious, to share in government. Possibly so, said we; and, by your system, you would always keep them ignorant and vicious.
            If A. can prove, however conclusively, that he may, of right, enslave B.–
            Why may not B. snatch the same argument, and prove equally, that he may enslave A.?–
            You say A. is White, and B. is black.
            It is color, then; the lighter, having the right to enslave the darker?
            Take care.
            By this rule, you are to be slave to the first man you meet,
            with a fairer skin than your own.
            You do not mean color exactly?–
            You mean the whites are intellectually the superiors of the blacks, and Therefore, have a right to enslave them?
            Take care again.
            By this rule, you are to be slave to the first man you meet, with an intellect superior to your own.
            But, you say, it is a question of interest; and, if you can make it your interest,
            You have the right to enslave another.
            Very Well.
            And if he can make it his interest, he has the right to enslave you.”
            Excerpts/Citations from:
            The Humorous Mr. Lincoln by Keith W. Jennison
            Bonanza Books, New York

            “The world has never had a good definition of the word Liberty, and The American people, just now, are much in want of one. We all declare For liberty; but in using the same word we do not all mean the same thing.
            With some the word liberty may mean for each man to do as he pleases with himself, and the product of his labor; while with others the same word may mean for some men to do as they please with other men, and the product of other men’s labor. Here are two, not only different, but incompatible things, called by the same name-liberty. And it follows that Each of the things is, by the respective parties, called by two different and incompatible names-liberty and tyranny.”

            “I Hope I am over-wary; but if I am not, there is even now something of ill omen among us. I mean the increasing disregard for law which pervades the country- the growing disposition to substitute the wild and furious passions in lieu of the sober judgement of courts, and the worse than savage mobs for the executive ministers of justice. Here then, is one point at which danger may be expected.”
            “The question recurs, ‘How shall we fortify against it?’
            The answer is simple. Let every American, every lover of Liberty,
            every well-wisher to his posterity, swear by the blood of the Revolution never to violate in the least particular the laws of the country, and never to tolerate their violations by others.”
            “When I so pressingly urge a strict observance of all of the laws, let me not be understood as saying there are no bad laws, or that grievances may not arise for the redress of which no legal provisions have been made. I mean to say no such thing. But I do mean to say that although bad laws, if they exist, should be repealed as soon as possible, still, while they continue in
            force, for the sake of example, they should be religiously observed.
            So also in unprovided cases. If such arise, let proper legal provisions be made for them with the least possible delay, but till then let them, if not intolerable,
            Be borne with.”….

            “Well, Sir, it seems like there was once an old king who was going hunting One day with all his courtiers… He soon met a farmer on the road. The farmer told the king it was going to rain. But the king’s astrologer didn’t think so. About an hour later there came a cloudburst that proved the farmer to be right; so the king cut off the astrologer’s head, and sent for the old farmer and offered him the vacant office.
            ” ‘It ain’t me that knows when it’s going to rain,’ he said, “It’s my Jackass.”
            He lays his ears back.’ ”
            ” ‘Then your jackass is hereby appointed court astrologer, ‘ said the king.
            And afterwards he realized it was the biggest mistake of his life, because (now) every jackass in the country wanted an office.”……
            Excerpts/Citations from:
            The Humorous Mr. Lincoln by Keith W. Jennison
            Bonanza Books, New York

          2. By Alexey Shiro on

            Be careful, Taylor! Wish you luck (sorry, yesterday overworked a lot and missed Joe’s post)

          3. By Joe Thorsky on

            Taylor
            I know things are deteriorating weather wise
            for you with all the power outages and expected
            rainfall.
            Hope You and Family are still doing OK

            FYI-Word from my relations is that San Antonio is
            in the crosshairs and might be getting its own
            Harvey Wallbanger of a nite themselves.

            Prayers & Best Wishes are with you and yours!

          4. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            Thanks guys. Things are really OK here–so far. One thing, even other Americans, have trouble with is the sheer scope of Texas. I’m sure Alexey understands, Russia being just slightly bigger :). But to put things in perspective, even though I live smack in the middle of the state, only the very outermost bands of that big mother have touched us here. I’m as far from the worst of it as Hamburg is from Paris. The bad part is, the damn thing has stalled right on top of my dad–who wouldn’t let me come get him. The GOOD thing is, he’s a smart, tough old coot, whose been through a lot worse. Just a few minutes ago, he told me (quote) “if the water comes in I guess I’ll just have to stand on a chair.” Texas understatement is kind of like the old fashioned British kind. In other words, he’ll deal with whatever comes along. I hope you relations in San Antone come out all right, Joe!

          5. By Justin on

            Yes, how dare he let a basic grasp of geography override his patriotism!

            Even though Alaska and Canada are bigger too, but still!

          6. By Charles Simpson on

            Texas understatement, a cozen once called a deluge rain “A little Texas dew.” I can see Matt Reddy saying of an African deluge, “We’d call this a light dew in Texas.”

          7. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            Now, now, Justin, land masses that are entirely covered with snow and ice most of the time don’t count! :) And if you look at the ORIGINAL Texas borders . . .

          8. By Lou Schirmer on

            I drove across Texas on I-10 once when changing stations in the Air Force. It took 12 hours from Louisiana to El Paso. That was when the speed limit was 55 mph, so 12 hours at 60-65 mph. I was a bit shell shocked when I hit El Paso, since I’d started from Tampa & drove non-stop. Texas was the state that wouldn’t end & talk about dead flat!

        1. By Lou Schirmer on

          She also didn’t have the midships gun platform plated up to start with since she was a Wickes class although I think most were changed that way later. Earl probably bitched about the waves coming over the side & ruining the feasts he prepared. Also from this picture, it looks like she had a truly open bridge to start with. Later pics show what looks like a plated bridge, but without the wave deflectors.

          https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/USS_Walker_%28DD-163%29.jpg

          Reply
          1. By Lou Schirmer on

            That model took a heck of a lot of work & looks great. Big pics on the Wiki.

    1. By Charles Simpson on

      Donald sent more photos of the model for the Wiki, put on cropped Jpeg images as the Wiki has a size limitation See Taylor’s Wiki page,

      http://destroyermen.wikia.com/wiki/Taylor_Anderson

      Click on photo go up click more information to go to photo’s page you can pick size an view or download. Sorry I took down the earlier photo.

      Reply
    2. By Steve Moore on

      Nice work, Taylor!

      I was just curious, and addressing this to the assembled multitudes; would it be possible to create files to 3D print some of the various hulls being created, as well as deckhouses & other upperworks? Just a thought, I don’t have the computer expertise (still dealing with the gremlin deleting blocks of texts) but thought that it might be a way to expand the Destroyerman community.

      Then, of course, there’s always the RC version of a P-1C to build..

      Reply
      1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

        I’ve watched those 3-D printers with amazement and am sure they would be wonderful for making small models or highly detailed parts for large ones. Of course, right now, you’d have to be a computer whiz to program them to do that stuff–particularly for 4-stacker parts!

        Reply
        1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

          Oh! And in reply to a question Don posed on my voicemail, I COULD say the Coke machine is under the amidships deckhouse by the galley, and therefore not visible–which would be true–but in reality, I built the model before Earl–or the Coke machine–ever existed. One of the many details I would like to add–or include on a larger model.

          Reply
          1. By Steve Moore on

            Just waiting for Pepper to start tooling up to produce Coke machines and canned beer (with promotional PIG openers)…

          2. By Lou Schirmer on

            On USN ships it’d have to be Earl’s Root Beer or some other non-alcoholic brew, although with operations in the Americas, true Coca Cola IS possible in the future.

          3. By Matt White on

            Well that’s assuming the right plant species exist and someone actually knows how to make coke. Good chance a lot of time and energy will be spent on “rediscovering” coke once the war is over. I can see the mice working on that as their next big ventre.

    3. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

      You know, I never had posted pics of that model because I never considered it “finished.” Don is right, I built it (in 1-96 scale) from blueprints, plank on frame hull covered with fiberglass resin, before I ever got deeply into writing the first D-men book because I realized I needed something 3-dimensional to show me what could be seen from various parts of the ship and to get a better “feel” for being aboard. The closest thing I’d stood upon was USS Stewart, a “flush-deck” DE down at Galveston of about the same length and beam, but so much else was different. Anyway, I considered it unfinished because there were lots of parts I spent a lot of time on detail, and others I got in a hurry on because formal display wasn’t my intent. I’ll finish it someday. :) Some cool details include the 4″-50 guns, all turned from brass. The torpedoes in the tubes are brass as well. The screws are brass, starting with thick brass discs and shaped with a jeweler’s saw and a file. The stainless steel counter even runs alongside Earl’s galley, though you can hardly see it. Detail on top of the torpedo mounts and around the guns is sparse because it was so on the plans and I hadn’t collected a lot of good pics back then. Probably what has delayed “completion” is the fact that I’d have to cut all the rigging–which is pretty good–to go back and carefully add the level of detail on may things. I’ve just about decided to just build a larger scale model someday, like 1-48, that I can get REALLY detailed with.

      By the way, visiting with Don was a lot of fun and a great pleasure. Maybe some of you other guys can swing by sometime.

      Oh! I’m working on the CEM for the next and want to make sure, if I’ve missed anyone in the acks in the past, that I add them this time. Suggestions? I want to mention General Star Wars–but am antsy about using “Star Wars”–which is a copyrighted title–anywhere in my books!

      Reply
      1. By Lou Schirmer on

        Could call him GeneralSW. Then there’s Nestor, he’s new so you didn’t miss him. Steve Moore & Steve White were both missing in DD.

        BTW what’s a CEM? We, the ignorant, wish to be enlightened. :)

        Reply
        1. By Steve Moore on

          Wait, there’s at least one more Steve. Reminds me of college; the assistant dean thought it would be great fun to have all three in a triple with the same name; three Steves, three Bobs, three Barbaras, etc. Tenure was NOT granted…

          Reply
        2. By Matthieu on

          CEM is something like and advanced editor copy IIRM.

          Maybe some of you other guys can swing by sometime.

          I’m afraid that according to my online dictionary it would turn me into a swinger. Given the translation, I’m suspicious about the exact meaning of the other part of the sentence:

          By the way, visiting with Don was a lot of fun and a great pleasure.

          It’s not that I have anything against beards but I would deeply prefer to be the only one in my bed with one.

          ok, door, mind bleacher, again…. It’s late here!

          ————————————————————–

          Well, do people really need recognition? We know who we are and what we’re doing.

          Reply
          1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            Eww, Matthieu! Ewwwww! Mind bleach ain’t enough. Gotta poke my mind’s eye out with a sharp stick.

            I know you guys don’t care about recognition, but it’s a fun way for me to say “thanks for the input.”

          2. By donald j johnson on

            The trip was lots of fun there were lots of nice Birds to take pictures of there. I enjoyed my stay and seeing all his nice toys.
            now the general is just the right age to fulfill one of Taylor’s wishes he needs someone young to teach to be a gunsmith and I think the general is the right age for that. What you say Taylor think it could be worth a try.

          3. By matthieu on

            Matthieu just ruined my day Ugg.

            It’s what I do for a living. Why do you really think that I teach Econometrics?

        3. By donald j johnson on

          CEM equals Copy Editors Manuscript. And usually is what they send him after they destroy his book so he can correct it and make it right again 😉

          Reply
          1. By Steve Moore on

            what do they call the cover artwork, with the invisible gun crews and undecipherable depth of field

          2. By Charles Simpson on

            Taylor has complained about the crewless ships, however it is expensive and the cover art is the decision of the Publisher. As more and more people go to E-Books and Audio books rather than published books there is less and less money for things like cover art.

            Remember also the purpose of Cover art is to get the customer to pick up the book thus the more drama the better. The Destroyermen books have a family appearance note that USS Walker is on the cover.

          3. By Steve Moore on

            Yeah, yeah. We’ve been through it all before. Just surprises me that the first book had better cover art, and it’s been kind of sliding since then. At least they haven’t gone to dime-novel versions of Tabby or the Queen on the cover. Cover art is critical to getting the initial Amazon mouse clicks as well, especially if it’s a new reader. Never worried about it much when writing about insurance… although maybe a girl in a bikini filling out an insurance app on her iPhone?

          4. By donald johnson on

            We Could always do the Art work for him. He tells is what He wants in the pic and a bunch of the artists here as a contest, try them on for size then Taylor pics out the one he likes best for his usual free book :-) basically the rule being that Taylor chooses the one he likes best that fits closest to what he wants happening.
            The losers could always go inside as artwork in available places.
            Oh yes the Selfi photo by the P1 pilot was GOOD.

      2. By Alexey Shiro on

        //You know, I never had posted pics of that model because I never considered it “finished.” //

        Maybe, but it’s still an awesome piece of modelling art!

        Reply
        1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

          Thanks. It has definitely served its purpose, too.

          Reply
    1. By Lou Schirmer on

      Very nice!

      Is everyone going out to watch the eclipse today? Wear protection. :)

      Reply
      1. By Steve Moore on

        Well, what little there is of it up here in Northern Maine. We’re about as far away as one can get, except maybe San Diego.

        Reply
          1. By Steve Moore on

            Good on you, mate. I probably won’t even have to turn on the headlights when I’m mowing the lower field tomorrow. I’ll wait for the media to print some pics.

          2. By Steve Moore on

            No, still guided by the Mark 1 EPS (Eyeball Positioning System), just use GPS when navigating the road system.

  14. By Steve Moore on

    Just seems like we’re jumping ahead of what will probably show up in the next couple of books.
    1. The Union can’t (and won’t) be able to carry a fight to the League in the Atlantic for at least a decade, since they don’t have a real 20th century fleet, even if Savoie were repaired, equipped, crewed and had stores (probably at least a year or more, that’s two books).
    About the best they can do is monitor the League from bases in West Africa with air patrols.
    2. They’ve got the Pacific pretty much bottled up as their ‘lake’. Mop up the last of the League fueling stations (I think that’s pretty much all they were, since arms and parts for old French battleships, Italian destroyers, Spanish oilers and German submarines are probably not interchangeable), make a deal with Halik to put an air station in his regency, and have the NUS keep an eye on the Pasa Fuego.
    3. What they’ve got the ability to do, with the limited level of technology they do have, is to continue to build wooden carriers, steel-hulled DD
    s, DE’s and CL’s for their navy; Scott-based cargo ships for the merchant marine & auxiliary; and a modern multi-engine bomber/transport for civil/military use, maybe a clone of the Ju52.
    4. Bottle up the Grik in the Zambezi, if Taylor has not already scripted it.
    5. Deal with the mysterious other forces the NUS faces in the coastal Atlantic and Caribbean. Get them as an ally and trading partner, at least of sorts, with the assistance of the Empire and the natives.
    6. Keep in mind that the Union is an association of free peoples, freely giving themselves to their Union. On the other hand, the LOT are conquerors, subjugating the peoples they find.

    Reply
    1. By Charles Simpson on

      Taylor as always gives us hints of the next book in the Epilog.

      1) RORP cross Ungee River to take Soala. To quote Bikia-Sab-At it will be hell.

      2) Navy and Army of sisters take cities along the Pass of Fire from the West.

      3) NUS and Greg Garrett involved in taking cities along Pass of Fire from the East. I imagine the prize will be involved with a false flag insertion or two 😉

      4) From the last regular chapter I guess that First Fleet will attack the Grik and bottle up the Grik Fleet by plugging the Zambezi River. Land forces will dig in and let the Grik march to their doom.

      Well that’s my best guess looking at the Skuguk innards, feel free to share your necromancy predictions.

      PS I think the League and the Alliance will leave each other alone and enter a cold war period possibly fighting through surrogates as did the USSR and USA during our cold war period.

      PSS for maps see http://destroyermen.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Maps not only Taylor’s maps from the books also available here but others from other sources. some from a 1942 World Atlas.

      Reply
      1. By Alexey Shiro on

        //PS I think the League and the Alliance will leave each other alone and enter a cold war period possibly fighting through surrogates as did the USSR and USA during our cold war period.//

        Must point out, that Cold War scenario was formed a lot around the fears of mutual nuclear destruction. Both sides were forced to be VERY carefull, and constantly check and re-check their actions just because there were always the probability that the other side might misinterpret the situation in hard way).

        Reply
      2. By Justin on

        ^ What Alexey said. Technically, neither the Americans nor the Soviets were actually at war, whereas the Union and League are trying to sink each other on sight and not even bothering with proxies or spies… and I doubt we’re going to see a shift from Saving Private Ryan to James Bond or Platoon anytime soon.

        The term, I believe, is “Phoney War:” hostile, but not actively attacking.

        Reply
        1. By donald johnson on

          if the league and the union are actively attacking each other why hasen’t Taylor said anything about this. He did mention in the last book that the Spanish destroyer was suspected of stuff unspecified but that is all I remember reading.

          Reply
          1. By Justin on

            Right – Donaghey sunk Antúnez (which was trying to sink her right back), and Reddy’s stated that the same will happen to any League vessels in Allied territory. No invasions, no fleet actions, just an active “sink on sight” order – hence, a Phoney War.

        2. By Matt White on

          It’s worth noting that uneasy cold wars of a type have existed long before and after the Cold War. They were different in nature and didn’t rely on MAD as much as a generally unwillingness or inability to have a full scale war at the time. The current situation with NK is a great example. The war technically never ended and the armistice was technically broken on many occasions but nobody wants a full war. Nukes are involved now but it’s hardly MAD territory and that’s a recent development. A much older example is Rome and Carthage they had a nice little cold wars going in between the punic wars as they were rebuilding their armies and fleets.

          Reply
      3. By Matthieu on

        Right now the main problem is logistics: enemies are so far apart that it’s highly unlikely that they will be able to fight directly. League against alliance? The one which advances will be at the end of its own logistical tail.

        We can imagine, as often in such books, a jump in time.

        Reply
    2. By Justin on

      Makes sense. They should probably try to encourage more Leaguers to switch sides, too – even a couple of Rizzos or Fiedlers could be invaluable.

      Bets on the Atlantic faction? British? Dutch? French-Canadian? Norse/Beothuk alliance? All of the above?

      Reply
      1. By Clifton Sutherland on

        Im pulling for another more settled faction of Viking raiders with approx. late 15th century tech.

        Reply
      2. By Steve Moore on

        Start with the captured Spaniards; treat them well, give them a view of life on the free side. Separate the hard-core from the others.

        Reply
        1. By Justin on

          At the very least, we’re going to see a lot more of Ensign Mole.

          Reply
    1. By Lou Schirmer on

      I take it you plan on dropping by Taylor’s place for a beer?

      Reply
        1. Taylor AndersonBy Taylor Anderson (Post author) on

          Didn’t know you were bringing a Grik horde! Oh well, been too quiet around here lately anyway. Be sure to remind me of your itinerary. I get distracted at times, tending to forget everything but what I’m writing! One reason I’m glad school has started up again, though. Kids are gone and I have a quiet house again. I actually CAN write!

          Reply
          1. By Steve Moore on

            The nice thing about bringing a Grik horde is that they always clean up after themselves; no Tupperware bowls of leftovers

          2. By Justin on

            … Steve, I did not need that mental image.

          3. By Steve Moore on

            Sorry, Justin. Will put a lid on comments like that.;-)

          4. By Steve Moore on

            Wonder if the Griks eat barbecue, or just stew everything up like the Brits?

          5. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            Well, since their most common epithet is “to the cookpots with you!” then I guess it’s Brit style–though I do like a good stew…

          6. By Charles Simpson on

            Sandra Tucker Reddy, “Goop Soup the breakfast of champions.” :)

          7. By Matthieu on

            “it’s Brit style–though”

            Yeah, just imagine
            – Would you mind jumping in the pot, old chap.
            – It’s hot, isn’t it?
            – Thou shall not be afraid.

            ….ok, I know where the door is.

            BTW I’m just back from one week in Venice. I can give you some good places to see/stay if one of you go there one day.

        2. By Lou Schirmer on

          So Don, what turned out to be the surprise for Taylor?

          Reply
          1. By donald j johnson on

            An old tube radio from about 1922 and some old 1934 era ham books. Dhat might show up ne one of the next ship transfers

  15. By F. Smith on

    Just found this site and would like to pose a question.
    Is it possible the cargo ship found by the human and lemurian pilots seeking contact with NUS was the USS Cyclops? The area and the estimated age of the wreck fit fairly closely.

    Reply
    1. By Lou Schirmer on

      Welcome to the Destroyermen world.

      Taylor tries not to use ships with an operational wartime history, if I’m saying this right. USS Walker & Mahan existed, but were scrapped before WW2. Amagi was scrapped after being damaged by an earthquake while under construction. SMS Amerika is a bit unusual in that she existed in our world, but was interned in New York Harbor during WW1 & later served as a troop ship & passenger liner. The one in the books apparently came from a different timeline, as did Walker, Mahan & Amagi, since they didn’t exist in ours. That’s not to say the wreck in the Caribbean couldn’t be a collier called “Argus” or something similar.

      Reply
      1. By Justin on

        Also worth noting is that Proteus and Nereus were lost along the same route back in ’41. They were pretty poor ships – it’s a minor miracle that their “sister” lasted long enough to make it to the DD-verse.

        Reply
        1. By Lou Schirmer on

          Their sister disappeared 20 years before they did. They’re thinking now it was structural failure in storms due to some of the previous corrosive cargos weakening their structure.

          Reply
      2. By Daryl on

        Just a seditious thought, but in his last novels Heinlein had a universe hopping family that went to among others Lensman, but the punch line was when they remarked about an unusual universe that had among other things – traffic lights that people obeyed. Thus as it turned out they weren’t us.
        Could Walker have come from a subtly different universe to us? Are those the League are scared of yet another unimagined group, such as a small nuclear armed LAC from say the Honorverse?

        Reply
        1. By Lou Schirmer on

          USS Walker existed in our world, but was scrapped before WW2. Amagi was scrapped after being damaged by an earthquake while under construction. She was also supposed to have ten 16″ guns as opposed to ten 10″, so they definitely come from a different, but close timeline. It’s been brought up often by folks new to the forum in the past (including me last year). :)

          The LOT are definitely occupied by something in the Mediterranean area, but since each transfer is coming from the same time period as time moves forward, there probably won’t be any high tech stuff coming through.

          Reply
          1. By Justin on

            While we’re at it – did the Japanese keep the British 10″/45s, or try to make their own guns (10″/50 or something)?

          2. By Alexey Shiro on

            Logically the second – they have 10-inch guns from their last semi-dreadnoughts (they were kept in storage and eventually used in coastal defense) and it make more sence to use them, rather than develope a new weapon for just one ship. The Japan weren’t among the very rich nations.

        2. By Steve Moore on

          The Number of the Beast. Yeah, he got a little far-out in his later years…

          Reply
      3. By William Curry on

        It’s possible that the Cyclops went down due a fire or deflagration in the coal bunkers. The Titanic’s bulkheads were weakened by a fire in one of her coal bunkers, which was burning throughout the voyage.

        Reply
        1. By Lou Schirmer on

          Coal fires were fairly common on coal fired ships, so it’s quite possible. I think they’re saying the USS Maine was destroyed by a coal fire in a bunker next to a magazine & not by Spanish action. With coal fires being common, what kind of lunatic would put one next to a magazine? Cyclops’s cargo was manganese & was reportedly also overloaded by almost 2,000 tons. She had one engine out & the other in bad repair. With corrosion issues from her hauling acidic coal weakening the hull, she could have encountered “The Perfect Storm” of fire, engine failure & a storm shifting the cargo contributing to the hull failing. The navy sold off two of her sisters as being in too bad a shape to be worth repairing & they disappeared within a month of each other in similar storms in the same area in 1940.

          Reply
          1. By Alexey Shiro on

            //With coal fires being common, what kind of lunatic would put one next to a magazine?//

            Not kind of lunatic… the coal was often considered as additional protection. The coal is heavy, after all, and coal bunkers are pretty good in stopping shells. Most of late-XIX century ships have coal bunkers above the slopes of their armored decks (behind the belt) to add to their protection.

          2. By Lou Schirmer on

            I know they were considered additional protection, but it’s still amazing no one considered (apparently) spontaneous coal fires, which are fairly common. Many coal mines & even towns in the US & elsewhere are abandoned due to the fact the local coal seams are on fire & can’t be put out. Or they can be, at great expense, but the high temperatures restart them almost immediately.

  16. By Justin on

    The Imperial Germans would probably have insisted that Republic warships have prefixes (USS, HIMS, etc). Some ideas:

    Latin: RPAC (Rem Publicam Arma Classem; Republic War Navy)
    RPCN (Rem Publicam Classe Navem; Republic Navy Ship)
    EPC (Et Populum Caesar; Caesar and People)

    German: KVR (Kaiser und Volk der Republik; Kaiser and People of the Republic)
    RKS/RKM (Republik Kriegsschiff/Kriegsmarine; Republic Warship/War Navy)
    KMS (Kaisermarine Schiff; Kaiser’s Navy Ship)

    Reply
      1. By Justin on

        It’s also close to the “Kriegsmarine Schiffe” that many historians like to add onto the OTL German warships… which might be a good thing or a bad thing.

        Reply
      2. By Lou Schirmer on

        Or there’s SMS, for Seiner Majestät Schiff (His Majesty’s Ship).
        That’s what the Imperial German Navy (German: Kaiserliche Marine, “Imperial Navy”) labeled their ships.

        Reply
    1. By Charles Simpson on

      Latin
      MST (Mortibimus Salve Te; We who are about to die salute you)

      CPQ (Caesar Populesque: Caesar and people. Like SPQR Senatus populesque Romani the senate and people of Rome)

      Reply
      1. By Lou Schirmer on

        I thought it was “morituri te salutamus”. I think your version says we dead say goodbye. Fitting, but I wouldn’t want it on my ship.

        Reply
    2. By Matthieu on

      There is NO prefix in German. KS is just a convenience used by English speakers (and not by German people). There were no prefix either in French, Italian … navies.

      Reply
      1. By Alexey Shiro on

        Sadly, no prefix in Russian/Soviet Navy also… A pity; they looks cool.

        Reply
      2. By Justin on

        No prefix in the Kriegsmarine. The Kaiserliche Marine, which Amerika came from, used SMS for “Seiner Majestät Schiff,” or “His Majesty’s Ship.”

        Reply
  17. By donald johnson on

    //——————————————–
    On Sat, 8/5/17, donald j johnson wrote:

    Subject: [Taylor Anderson Discussion Forum] Comment: “Character Discussions”
    To: [email protected]
    Date: Saturday, August 5, 2017, 3:41 PM

    New comment on your post “Character
    Discussions”
    Author: donald j johnson (IP:
    2600:8801:b307:3a00:e160:dcb8:7f23:6c75,
    2600:8801:b307:3a00:e160:dcb8:7f23:6c75)
    Email: [email protected]
    URL: http://they%20are%20capable%20of%20learning%20to%20read%20slowly
    Comment:
    If there is a Soviet transfer it will
    probably be after the Soviets invade Manchuria in 1945 and I
    believe that that is a year away at least so it won’t happen
    very soon

    You can see all comments on this post
    here:
    http://www.taylorandersonauthor.com/discussions/character-discussions/character-discussions/#comments

    Permalink: http://www.taylorandersonauthor.com/discussions/character-discussions/character-discussions/comment-page-1/#comment-7860
    Trash it: http://www.taylorandersonauthor.com/discussions/wp-admin/comment.php?action=trash&c=7860
    Spam it: http://www.taylorandersonauthor.com/discussions/wp-admin/comment.php?action=spam&c=7860
    //
    When did the Taylor forum start doing this. I got it in an email!

    Reply
  18. By Justin on

    What’s the Alliance’s policy on dual citizenship, especially in the middle of a war? If (let’s say) Bekiaa decides that she wants to be a full-time Republic Legate and citizen while she’s still an officer in the Union military, that could cause a few sleepless nights for Letts, Nig-Taak and the others…

    Reply
    1. By Charles Simpson on

      I’m not sure the concept of national identity is firm with the Lemurians. Many citizens of the Empire of New Britain are serving in the American Navy Clan, like Lt. Stanly Raj aboard USS Tassat, and until his death Brevet Captain Stuart Brassy served in the First north Borno Regiment. Several Citizens of the Republic of Real People are members of USS Donaghey’s crew. Union Citizens are serving with other nationalities like Bekiaa, and the Fifth Maa-ni-la Cavalry is even scouting for the Grik under Halick!

      I don’t think the question of dual citizenship will come up until after the war.

      Reply
    1. By Matthieu on

      Well i don’t like it but it’s a very logic flag :)

      Reply
      1. By Lou Schirmer on

        Ah, but the French are the senior partners, so which flag idea do the French like?
        As our resident French expert Matthieu, which do you like best & if none appeal to you, do you have a submission to the contest? I remember you advocating a crest or coat of arms. How about the black flag with red octagon with white center & something like one of Charlemagne’s coat of arms in the middle replacing the fascist symbols?

        Reply
        1. By Justin on

          Technically, it’s a three-way that happens to (so far) feature a lot of French. No matter how famous, I really don’t see the Spanish going along with a Frankish king as a figurehead.

          Reply
          1. By donald j johnson on

            The Black Flag all it needs is a white skull and crossbones :-)

          2. By Charles Simpson on

            Lou the Fascists are not repeat not going to use the symbols of monarchy! And Neither Italy nor Spain will wish to be repusented by the Lily of France, or fleur de lis.
            Another possibility surroung red octagon with white with white interior field: returning the Flange symbol to red over the blue cross with rockers of the PPF.

            http://destroyermen.wikia.com/wiki/File:FLAG_CES_black_field_IV.png

          3. By Lou Schirmer on

            Hey I was just taking a look at what Matthieu was suggesting & it was actually a decent look. However I do agree with you on this. Either your newest variant or the one with just the straight white octagon interior with the combined fascist symbols seems to be the consensus after all the conniving, deal making, blood, dust & acrimony of the LOT conference has settled.

          4. By Justin on

            Yes they will use monarchic symbols. Mussolini’s PNF, for example, used Victor Emmanuel III as a figurehead for the whole of their rule.

            Just not Charlemagne, because he only ruled half of Italy and none of Spain. More like Caesar or Octavian.

        2. By Matthieu on

          “As our resident French expert Matthieu, which do you like best & if none appeal to you”

          Well, it should not appeal me. It should appeal a bunch of fascists from the 30′. Given the fact that there numerous such groups and they hate each other (really!) it’s really hard to know which flag is relevant as some groups were fascist_Italian. Some were fascist-royalist (with sub categories orléaniste and bourbons and the sub category légitimiste). As you can imagine, it’s a mess.

          There are two basic choices:
          – create a flag using a mix of all the current fascists flags. what we are trying to do right now.
          – creating a completely new flag. In such a case we need to look for a common ancestor that all those bunches of fascists can like. something quite complicated as they also hate each other (as they define themselves as better than any other country).

          In both cases I believe that they were going to respect heraldic rules. The first flag is excellent (I mean that it answers to the problem and respect heraldic rules, even if I think that it’s really ugly).

          A common ancestor for all those fascists is really complicated to find. Charlemagne is an acceptable one (large empire, strong ruler, covered almost all Europe). For another ones? Really hard! I only know that you can’t have lys flowers. It’s really too related to French kings and all their partners are going to hate that.

          To be honest I would prefer their flag to remain ugly :)

          Reply
          1. By Lou Schirmer on

            I do believe we’re approaching consensus! :0

          2. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            I agree. Ugly is good. They’re the bad guys, remember? And nothing twists my stomach more than the ugliest flag there ever was–that of Nazi Germany. Something reminiscent of that is highly appropriate, I think. And as Matthieu suggests, it would be appropriate to the fascist factions in the League as well. One reason I personally was drawn to a black field.

          3. By Lou Schirmer on

            Interestingly enough the swastika was originally a symbol for good. You still see it used that way in the far east. It’s a little jarring for westerners to see it though, being used to the Nazi stigmata.

          4. By Steve Moore on

            Well, the Roman Empire had a pretty good spread, even if they didn’t have Hoss and Little Joe (caught a Bonanza marathon a while back)

          5. By Steve Moore on

            Are mailed fists holding lightning bolts OK?

          6. By donald j johnson on

            The mailed fist holding the both of whining sounds like a good one but you got to have a sword in the other hand

          7. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            True, Lou, and even many Native American peoples used similar symbols–but it has certainly been tainted by association in most eyes.

          8. By Charles Simpson on

            Well we have a consensus, a stop sign on a black field. UGLY as anything designed by committee. Ready for propaganda like stop the Fascists!

            Oh wait a minute in the late 30s and early 40s stop signs were yellow with black lettering. Nobody tell Nestor, Matthaew, or Taylor they’ll shoot me, or throw an old time necktie party.

          9. By donald j johnson on

            And a few stop signs at least here in California were triangular

          10. By Alexey Shiro on

            Guys, are we talking about League’s banner or CES banner? Those two entites aren’t the same, you know. The League is the bbottlenecked sample of CES military & cociety; the League DID NOT represent CES as whole.

          11. By donald j johnson on

            It was my opinion that they were talking about the league not this CES because as you noted the CES is not in the Destroyer man world but the league is

          12. By Lou Schirmer on

            //Guys, are we talking about League’s banner or CES banner? //

            I’ve been under the impression we’re designing a new flag for the LOT since they are no longer just a part of the CES militaries, but a new nation, in a new world.

          13. By Nestor on

            “Oh wait a minute in the late 30s and early 40s stop signs were yellow with black lettering.”

            Why would that be a problem? If it looks like a modern traffic stop sign then no one in our ALT-world will think of it as such. Isn’t that a good thing?

      1. By Steve Moore on

        Do hope they clean the Kurokawa bush up before they leave, perhaps with the flamethrowers. No sense in ruining a perfectly good island you might want to come back to someday…

        Reply
        1. By donald j johnson on

          Bet they just put a chain link fence around it in a big sign written in Grik saying enter at own risk.

          Reply
  19. By Joe Thorsky on

    Taylor-Everyone

    Can’t linger or lollygag for very long since having been placed
    on medical restrictive duty. I have, at least somehow managed
    to have finished the Last two fifths of Devil’s Due and found
    it to have certainly exceeded all my repressed suppositions
    and expectations. Hope there’s a lot more story to come! Until
    then, am reluctantly forced to play Katsup in both reading/responding
    to everyone’s postings and getting myself back up to specs.

    For anyone Savoie enough to know their history, there must be
    more than just a mere coincidence that connects it’s fate with
    that of the USS Nevada at Pearl Harbor.
    And Taylor; another Bogart movie that you should check out
    Is “Action in the North Atlantic”. Good basic depiction of ship
    to ship and convoy (non-radio) communications and 5 in deck gun
    crew training. There are also movie clips of warships (DD’s) and
    merchantmen as well as bombers, fighters and patrol aircraft that
    includes flying PBY’s as well.

    One very important improvement/addition for you to seriously consider incorporating into your future writings would be to have a page specifically dedicated to souly depicting all Allied and Enemy Aircraft types,
    specifications and characteristics with their attending appropriate
    silhouettes.

    I also have found some additional appropriate music that you
    Taylor/Guys might find enjoyable/entertaining and HTF:

    Lincoln’s Army mp3 Irish Rovers
    A Yankee Man of War mp3 Bonnie Milner
    Brooklyn Sloop of War mp3 Dan Milner
    Farragut’s Ball mp3 Dan Milner

    Free and Green mp3 David Kinkaid
    Nora Creina mp3 Derek Warfield
    Ballad of General Shields mp3 Derek Warfield
    Kearny at Seven Pines mp3 Derek Warfield
    The Bold Fenian Men mp3 Derek Warfield
    Fighting Tom Sweeny mp3 Derek Warfield
    The Wearing of the Gray mp3 Derek Warfield
    Mike from Garryowen mp3 Derek Warfield

    Billy broke Locks mp3 97th Regimental String Band
    The Minstrel Boy mp3 97th Regimental string Band
    The Men Behind the Guns mp3 Phil Ochs
    High Germany mp3 Quigley Ensemble
    The Ghost in Blue mp3 Lee Murdock
    The Scottish Hero mp3 Lee Murdock
    Raise the Pipes in Glory mp3 Lee Murdock
    Rollin on the Sea mp3 Breakin’ Tradition
    Jericho mp3 Gordon Bok
    Au coin du Ciel / La Gigue du Matin mp3 Ti Jardin
    C’Est l’Aviron mp3 Felicia Dale William Pint
    The Emerald Isle mp3 Barry Pischner-Rich Scripps
    Ballad of Saint Anne’s Reel mp3 South Bay Wailing Company

    —Later Everyone

    Reply
    1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

      Well Joe, I’m glad you liked DD–but I’m more interested in assurance that whatever placed you on “restricted duty” isn’t going to keep you down for long.

      Reply
      1. By Joe Thorsky on

        Taylor
        Will be having an all out “Wasn’t That a Party” mp3 Irish Rovers
        celebration after receiving medical clean bill of health by all
        of my attending Doctors-Nurses-CorpsKats. Until then,
        (probably/maybe hopefully sometime in Mid-August) medical
        monitoring for a weakened immune system will be the
        order of the day. No “Connection” mp3 Arlo Gutherie, please!

        FYI
        Let’s not ignore or forget the outlier Grik Army of Hallick as a possible future discriminating disrupting force of nature for either good or evil intentions and purposes. Glider drops anyone!??

        Also another improvement/addition for you to consider incorporating into your writings “witchooo” could make the Destroyermen Saga and Storyline far much more easier for the reader to track, follow and understand would be to add a Vertical Event Timeline. It would easily recognize, identify and catalogue all of the major significant historical moments and events that have occurred to Walker and crew since your “Into the Storm” was first published.

        -Later Guys

        Reply
        1. By donald johnson on

          //Also another improvement/addition for you to consider incorporating into your writings “witchooo” could make the Destroyermen Saga and Storyline far much more easier for the reader to track, follow and understand would be to add a Vertical Event Timeline//
          It looks like Joe Thorsky volunteered himself a nice cushy job ☻

          Reply
        2. By Steve Moore on

          Might be too big for a page; maybe go to an Access database!

          Reply
        3. By Charles Simpson on

          Some of the other groups with living people’s story lines would be useful IE Germans in the Republic of Real People in 1914, the Czech Volunteers of 1918 in India, Invasion Force that became the League of Tripoli in 1939. Would be good witchooo Even the history of the New United States from 1947.

          Reply
      1. By Matthieu on

        No way for European to accept that. Something looking like a cross (= related to England). NEVER! :)

        Reply
        1. By Lou Schirmer on

          Do you mean the X shaped background cross or the central cross symbol?

          Reply
          1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            The X-shaped cross would be incorrect.

        2. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

          I actually have to go with Matthieu again–and not just for historical reasons. One is color (white). Need to differentiate between the stainless banners, and another being the ragged cross on the Dom flag (with red background). Not that two powers couldn’t choose similar colors, but for clarity’s sake (for the readers) it would be nice to go with a different field. Particularly it ever shows up on a cover . . .

          Reply
          1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            Wow. I like Lou’s black background, with it’s “no quarter” implications! Just the thing to expect from a bunch a fascists full of hubris–and a color that would not put one power above the other (from a standpoint of trying to foster unity). And it doesn’t conflict with anything already seen, even the “pp” flag on Savoie. “Final” flags take time to evolve, and certainly to be accepted by all and distributed. I’m curious what Matthieu thinks since he is the only representative of a CES nation :) (that I am aware of) who is contributing the conversation.

          2. By Charles Simpson on

            Be that as it may the Deadly Shores said a read octagon with a blue cross with rockers on a white field IE.Deadly Shores Hardback page 213:

            “A red octagon with a white field that looked like a blue cross with rockers on each side,” Matt told them.

            Now the outside color could be black? Well if Matt Reddy meant the field inside the red octagon was white we get something like this using Nestor’s symbol:

            http://destroyermen.wikia.com/wiki/File:FLAG_CES_black_field.png

          3. By Charles Simpson on

            Then again Mattheau mentioned the black background was the anarchist’s color in Europe and Fascists hated anarchists. One Fascist, Hitler chose the red background of the Nazi flag just to upset the communists.

          4. By Matthieu on

            Well, the black background is not out of place there as it’s just a background color.

            The whole design looks suspiciously like a large stop sign (because of the octogon). :)

            As for the colors it’s looks good but there is one major no-no remaining: black and red are colors but they should never be a color on a color (white and gold are not colors in heraldic).

            It means that maybe we should witch colors and the octagon can be silver

          5. By Nestor on

            Now I’m confused: There’s a bunch of old and current national flags that have red and black next to each other: Afghanistan, Nationalist Spanish Falange, Germany, quite a few Middle Eastern and African flags, etc.

          6. By Matthieu on

            Because in heraldic, you have some rules.

            (thank you wiki):
            The most basic rule of heraldic design is the rule of tincture: metal should not be put on metal, nor colour on colour (Humphrey Llwyd, 1568). This means that Or and argent (gold and silver, which are represented by yellow and white) may not be placed on each other; nor may any of the colours (i.e. azure, gules, sable, vert and purpure) be placed on another colour. Heraldic furs (i.e. ermine, vair and their variants) as well as “proper” (a charge coloured as it normally is in nature) are exceptions to the rule of tincture.

            Even if they are exceptions, you don’t put a red charge on a black field. It would just looks ugly to them. The current design is excellent, we still have to work with colours.

            As for the meaning, you know what I think about fascists being able to ally around a single leader in some countries. Very unlikely (but it can happen).

          7. By Nestor on

            I see, thanks! Maybe when I get home I can tweak and swap colors a bit more.

          8. By Lou Schirmer on

            //Be that as it may the Deadly Shores said a read octagon with a blue cross with rockers on a white field IE.Deadly Shores Hardback page 213://

            That may have been the original CES flag. Are we designing that or is the LOT coming up with their own flag for their new nation? If it’s a new one & your reference was the old one, all bets are off. :)

          9. By Justin on

            Heck, for all we know, the Surcouf-class sub was sporting a pre-Confederation PPF design – it’s not like the Allies or Axis had a unified paint job, after all. The CES/League flag (if any) may look completely different.

          10. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            Justin is correct. The PPF device was painted on the mystery Surcouf analog. That may have reflected anything from the French contingent’s popular (sorry) emblem within the League, to that particular submarine crew’s political loyalty, or just the whim of her skipper. Never forget that the members of the League are . . . somewhat fractious, even at present, under the Triumvirate. This was reinforced again in DD by Atunez’s skipper when he was contemplating the OVRA representative he answered to. Expect this friction to be explored in greater depth . . .
            But the very existence of this friction is a prime reason why the League would seek to adopt a unifying symbol–whether it has already done so in the past and there are holdouts, or it is something new. Either way, some representation of the political emblem of the PPF would necessarily be central to the unifying banner.
            As to the black background, I am certainly not wedded to it–this exercise remains something for you guys to toy with and get you all “acknowledged again! Ha!
            As for the black, however, Matthieu’s point is well-taken, but the “anarchy” of the black predates the movement in many ways and many forms, and might be embraced by the various members in different ways. To the French, the central symbols might represent the “light of civilization bursting forth from the darkness of anarchy,” or that same “light” surrounded by it in this world. Think of things in that light . . . (sorry again). Imagine a committee representing the prime members of the LOT hashing out ways to make mutually meaningless or even vaguely offensive symbols palatable to one another. They might even be under pressure by the Triumvirate to “get it done!” and be willing to rationalize those symbols in various ways to make them acceptable to their own factions. (Wow, this would make SUCH a fun short story!)
            The irony is, no matter what they come up with, there will doubtless initially be those who disdain the “official” explanation for the “unifying” flag and possibly cling to their own contingent’s revolutionary symbols—possibly like the Surcouf analog?

          11. By Matthieu on

            One more variation, following Matthieu’s suggestion: http://snoeplau.deviantart.com/art/CES-flag-694390761
            For me it’s the best combination until now :)))

            Your last proposition with the black/white/emblems answers to all heraldic rules and is far easier to read (and it’s the idea).

            As for the black, however, Matthieu’s point is well-taken, but the “anarchy” of the black predates the movement in many ways and many forms,

            Sure. They can still use black as it’s trendy (for example). Did you know that black was a symbol of power during middle age? If your cloths were black, you were top level. The main reason was that black color was incredibly expensive to get and to maintain. If you look at some pictures, black and burgundy are really trendy in 1420-1460 for this reason.

            Think of things in that light . . . (sorry again)

            You are the beacon that enlightens us.

            (and not “you are the bacon that enlightens us” as it’s a sentence for Miss Piggy)

            Imagine a committee representing the prime members of the LOT hashing out ways to make mutually meaningless or even vaguely offensive symbols palatable to one another

            The whole idea of committee is incredibly American. This is not the way European works (especially at this time). A meeting is a place for negotiations. If one side accepts a given flag, you need to give them something else :)

          12. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            Ha, Matthieu. The term “meeting” was actually a euphemism for the knock down, drag out “negotiation” to find a common flag. That’s what would make it a fun episode.

          13. By donald johnson on

            Then you gotta write it out in the next book. ohhhh then maybe you already did. looking forward to reading about it.

      1. By Lou Schirmer on

        I agree with Charles on this. Nestor has the best combined symbol representation in line with the books description. The background color is easy enough to change on any of the flags.

        Reply
        1. By Charles Simpson on

          Sorry for misspelling Lou spelling never was my strong suit. Wild the assn vote is going for leo.

          Reply
      2. By Nestor on

        Thanks, but like I said, red on white looks like a Japanese flag from afar. Guess it would make no difference to the Alliance, a meatball is a meatball.

        Reply
        1. By Lou Schirmer on

          It wouldn’t be a meatball, just a red octagonal band around a white center with your symbol inside & white outside the band.

          Reply
          1. By Nestor on

            Oh, I see what you mean now, thanks for the link. You keep the insignia then put back the original Vichy octagon.

  20. By donald johnson on

    I decided today to study the Zambezi river. to see how hard/easy it will be to block.
    just outside lake cahora bassa which i think is the lake where the Grik are is a very deep and narrow canyon. If this canyon is there in the Grik world then the ricer is impassable without a portage. Yes it is possible that they could build one but I suspect that they actually are carting the boats as sections for the first 30 or so KM. after this there is a very fast section where it is navigable with great care by a skilled crew. after about 100 km it slows down and spreads out and then has many sand bars that will hinder navigation. This will not be a fast trip by any means.
    After nearing the coast the waters really spread out and I suspect that no ships of the alliance should try and navigate without a pilot experienced with the area. as only the Grik know the area we will not want to use the river very far from its mouth and it is 5 to 7 KM wide at that point and still very shallow with many sandbars.

    Reply
    1. By Lou Schirmer on

      The Zambezi is probably somewhat different from our world. They’ve got large ships on that lake & there’s no way to portage something like that. Also, they’ve built & sailed Grik BBs from Sofesshk down the river, so there must be a deep water channel in the main part of the river. That’s not saying any allied ships won’t have to be extremely cautious going up river. They may have to have the MTBs going in earlier & exploring & taking soundings to make a chart of the river before any large allied ships come in.

      Reply
    2. By Justin on

      Going by the map in DD, the Zambezi’s as wide as the Amazon and gets supplied by a Cahora Bassa the size of the Chesapeake. I doubt that OTL geography applies here.

      Reply
      1. By steve moore on

        Lower sea levels means a greater difference in elevations between the upstream sources and the Indian Ocean, so maybe a faster current has scoured a deeper channel. Ditto for the Mississippi, Colorado and the Rio Grande of the NUS, unchecked by any dams or irrigation diversions. Wonder what that means for them?

        Reply
  21. By Lou Schirmer on

    One thing I’ve been curious about for a while now is the LOT versus the Grik in North Africa. If the Grik have been killing everything in sight for the last couple thousand years & have spread by land out to Arabia, Persia & India, with their rapid population growth potential they’ve certainly populated the entire area of Central & Northern Africa. With a milder climate due to the mini ice age, the North African deserts should be more savannah like, similar to the American great plains, with plenty of wild life. Ideal for Griks.
    Then the LOT arrive & take Tripoli (or somewhere in that vicinity) which would presumably be a decent enough port for the Grik to have occupied. What follows should have been a repeat of the Amagi arrival, but with so much more fire power, the LOT wouldn’t have to join them.
    1. Wouldn’t the Grik have built a Great Swarm & repeatedly attacked the LOT?
    2. Since the LOT arrived several years before the Walker, wouldn’t the Grik have learned newer fighting skills, tactics & weapons from the LOT?
    3. How can General Esshk & the Grik NOT know about the LOT?

    Reply
    1. By steve moore on

      Might be too cold for Grik; if they don’t like the RRP territory, North Africa may be too cold. There also may be super lizards, etc in way, Africa is supposedly full of them. Maybe they took the path of least resistance and went after prey they didn’t need to march through jungles to. They don’t seem to venture too far inland where they are now.

      If they got there, they’d have to build ships to explore the Med, since they can’t go around the Cape. There may be no trees.

      Reply
      1. By Lou Schirmer on

        Persia’s north of N. Africa & it’s apparently good enough weather there, so it shouldn’t be too cold.
        They kept super lizards & other deadly fauna in the Madagascar “Zoo”, so they may hunt them for sport.
        As fast as they breed, they should be everywhere in Africa, except the cold area of the Republic.
        They live in jungles, so moving through them should be business as usual. They probably have a fairly extensive road network.

        The only thing I can think of is there are still some desert in N. Africa & maybe it acts as a buffer zone for the LOT, making it not worth the Grik’s while to cross them from the temperate parts such as the Nile river & eastern Egypt. The problem with that is they could still move down the coast lines, bypassing the deserts. It could be a combination of deserts & something else preventing them from occupying Libya. Maybe it’s a taboo region of some sort.

        Reply
        1. By Alexey Shiro on

          There shouldn’t be deserts in North Africa in Ice Age. On the contrary, the Sakhara must be covered by forests.

          Reply
          1. By Alexey Shiro on

            Wanna bet? Only a few thousand years ago Sakhara was a pretty wet and rainy place.

          2. By Lou Schirmer on

            //There shouldn’t be deserts in North Africa in Ice Age. On the contrary, the Sakhara must be covered by forests.//

            True for a full ice age. I know how fertile the desert is with some water. When deployed to the desert, any conditioner units always had plants immediately start growing under the condensation drip. However this seems to be a mini ice age since the water level has only dropped 6-7 meters. The Sahara may still be there in some reduced form, the central African forests would have moved farther north, but I’d think most of northern Africa would be savannah with large grazing animals & their predators.

          3. By donald johnson on

            When the rains came

            Some 12,000 years ago, the only place to live along the eastern Sahara Desert was the Nile Valley. Being so crowded, prime real estate in the Nile Valley was difficult to come by. Disputes over land were often settled with the fist, as evidenced by the cemetery of Jebel Sahaba where many of the buried individuals had died a violent death.

            But around 10,500 years ago, a sudden burst of monsoon rains over the vast desert transformed the region into habitable land.

            This opened the door for humans to move into the area, as evidenced by the researcher’s 500 new radiocarbon dates of human and animal remains from more than 150 excavation sites.

            “The climate change at [10,500 years ago] which turned most of the [3.8 million square mile] large Sahara into a savannah-type environment happened within a few hundred years only, certainly within less than 500 years,” said study team member Stefan Kroepelin of the University of Cologne in Germany.

            Frolicking in pools

            In the Egyptian Sahara, semi-arid conditions allowed for grasses and shrubs to grow, with some trees sprouting in valleys and near groundwater sources. The vegetation and small, episodic rain pools enticed animals well adapted to dry conditions, such as giraffes, to enter the area as well.

            Humans also frolicked in the rain pools, as depicted in rock art from Southwest Egypt.

            In the more southern Sudanese Sahara, lush vegetation, hearty trees, and permanent freshwater lakes persisted over millennia. There were even large rivers, such as the Wadi Howar, once the largest tributary to the Nile from the Sahara.

            “Wildlife included very demanding species such as elephants, rhinos, hippos, crocodiles, and more than 30 species of fish up to 2 meters (6 feet) big,” Kroepelin told LiveScience.

            A timeline of Sahara occupation [See Map]:

            22,000 to 10,500 years ago: The Sahara was devoid of any human occupation outside the Nile Valley and extended 250 miles further south than it does today.
            10,500 to 9,000 years ago: Monsoon rains begin sweeping into the Sahara, transforming the region into a habitable area swiftly settled by Nile Valley dwellers.
            9,000 to 7,300 years ago: Continued rains, vegetation growth, and animal migrations lead to well established human settlements, including the introduction of domesticated livestock such as sheep and goats.
            7,300 to 5,500 years ago: Retreating monsoonal rains initiate desiccation in the Egyptian Sahara, prompting humans to move to remaining habitable niches in Sudanese Sahara. The end of the rains and return of desert conditions throughout the Sahara after 5,500 coincides with population return to the Nile Valley and the beginning of pharaonic society.
            https://www.livescience.com/4180-sahara-desert-lush-populated.html

    2. By Justin on

      The Grik map back in Into the Storm shows the Empire ending at the Sinai; either that’s still a desert, or there’s another faction blocking them.

      Reply
      1. By Lou Schirmer on

        I think you’re right. I’ve been looking at later maps that say “Grik Empire (extent unknown)”. Plus that one shows both the Red Sea & Persian Gulf to be open & navigable. Unless that was just a navigation chart & doesn’t show the full extent of the Grik holdings.

        Reply
        1. By Lou Schirmer on

          It may reach the Med anyway. I don’t see why they wouldn’t be settled in around the Nile river. It’s an excellent natural highway for commerce & raiding. The desert to the west would still be a barrier. The LOT could be mostly in Libya, Tunisia & Algeria & maybe having troubles with some civilization on the northern shores of the Med.

          Reply
          1. By steve moore on

            The question still remains: how did the Ju52 (600 mile range) fly to Zanzibar and expect to fly home? Or was it always going to be a one-way trip, they go home on the sub or Savoie?

            The LOT’s got to be a lot closer than Libya.

          2. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            One thing; note the two maps of “Objective Outhouse.” The first includes Silva’s goofy place names, but in case there is confusion, the second includes Saansa’s observations decoded by listening Lemurian comm-cats on the AVD (thus the careful printing, but somewhat unusual spelling). It also, obviously, includes Captain Reddy’s scrawled re-naming of “Head Point.” Chack’s Brigade would ultimately land just slightly west of there. (Leo may enjoy gaming that!)

          3. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            Good observations, Steve–re the fuel required to fly the Ju52 to Zanzibar. I’ve watched these speculations with some delight, in fact, but I’ll toss in some other things to speculate upon: Obviously, one may assume, since the plane was only lightly loaded, it carried significant quantities of extra fuel, (in gas cans???). Nor must one assume it had to land in order to replenish. Arrangements for refueling within the aircraft were not new ideas, nor were they unique to Doolittle’s Raiders.
            As a “diplomatic mission” ostensibly there to benefit Kurokawa, Gravois and company had every right to expect fuel replenishment from him (though you may recall several comments to the effect that they were disappointed by the quality of fuel they found there). Still, the JU52 would not be as finicky as a MacchiMess. So, I’d counsel against presuming the League is within 600 miles of Zanzibar OR that the JU52 was necessarily on a “one way trip”–especially since the League (at the time, certainly, and possibly still) had the means to BRING fuel to the JU52. I don’t throw these bones to narrow speculation but to broaden it. :)

          4. By Lou Schirmer on

            Heavier flight weights cut into an aircraft’s range. With extra fuel aboard they may be down to 500-550 miles standard range, so they’d go through fuel faster in the initial part of the flight, it’s a bit of a trade off.
            Assuming 6,000 lbs. of carrying capacity with a few passengers, crew & light cargo, you’re down to maybe 4,000 lbs. available for fuel (about 667 gal.) Normal fuel was 654 gal., so that’s close to double the normal fuel. However the range wouldn’t be doubled, it would probably be around 1,100 miles, so the LOT would either have to be within 1,100 miles of Zanzibar, or they’d have to stage in from a closer site. The Ju-52 can land almost anywhere, so with proper recon, they could have open fields available to have other aircraft bring fuel to for the 52 to refuel & proceed. With radio, they could coordinate the return flight. They could be in & out of a deserted field before any local Griks even knew they were there.

          5. By steve moore on

            I don’t think they’re that close (600 miles); maybe a hundred miles up the Nile at the most. But it’s a LONG way to fly expecting you’ll get gas at the end. That’s why I was thinking it was a one-way trip, at least for the JU 52.

          6. By donald j johnson on

            Another thing that could increase the range of the ju-52 is flying at higher altitude. I’m not certain how high they would have to go to get the increase in range but when you go up higher you do get an increase in range also by changing prop pitch to maximize range vs maximizing speed may also give you greater range

          7. By donald j johnson on

            I was taking Taylor numbers for the ju52 then I looked at Wikipedia information on the ju52. Wikipedia says that the ju52 is 13180 lb empty and 20330 maximum takeoff weight if you subtract 1000 lb for passengers which would indicate roughly five people you now have 6150 lb of load capability this would give you 976 maximum gallons. The question I have though is that is the weight of gasoline considered the empty weight of an aircraft or does that have to be added to the empty weight of a aircraft for accurate calculations in which case then you would not be able to add 600 extra Gals but only about 376 to reach maximum weight.

          8. By Steve Moore on

            If the LOT was an invasion force, they probably had tactical recon elements, so they’ve probably got some long-distance planes to plot out a staged journey. Just thinking. The Nile in our world has an average depth of around 30 feet or so, but since it drains the interior, it could still have enough depth for small craft to move up it and supply a FOB.

            The Bosphorous also has a shallow channel (13 meters at shallowest), so that limits going that way in DD.

          9. By Charles Simpson on

            A base above the first cataract in southern Egypt of our time line Easy, and lower on the Nile is quite close to Zanzibar. The Grik are a narrow costal band not in the Nile valley. Therefore a base within 600 miles is possible on the Nile below Egypt See Grik Map:

            http://destroyermen.wikia.com/wiki/File:Grik_Map.jpg

          10. By Lou Schirmer on

            Empty weight is just that, empty, every thing added subtracts from the carrying capacity, internal fuel, crew (at least 3) etc. Then you start factoring in how much you have left & what you want to carry. Also, flying higher & with deeper pitch on the props is already calculated into the range numbers. Part of the aircraft manual deals with the performance at different altitudes, power settings & weights. Maximum range would be at the most efficient power settings & altitude for a given takeoff weight.

        2. By Lou Schirmer on

          Charles, in the DDmen Wiki, do you think it might be an idea to put all the maps in a category “maps”, to make them easier to find? You could sort them by which book they came in. Just a thought.

          Reply
          1. By donald johnson on

            map in larger size that you can actually see
            https://www.google.com/search?q=destroyermen+grik&tbm=isch&imgil=EEm8GBcv1txsoM%253A%253BBiQlMyh3QHhKGM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fdestroyermen.wikia.com%25252Fwiki%25252FFile%25253AGrik_Map.jpg&source=iu&pf=m&tbs=simg:CAESiAEJjvSaQWI8iUoafQsQsIynCBphCl8IAxIn3wJZ3gfhB-AC2AqaBd0J1wryCbs0mS7_1N7EnvDSVJ780vTTzNPU0GjAoHhc_1Iazm5xpYwuZRmRacxFLHctIHJtpblQskZjAahyZHF9NtPndoiEKLJCTBdOsgBAwLEI6u_1ggaCgoICAESBG44fwoM&fir=EEm8GBcv1txsoM%253A%252CBiQlMyh3QHhKGM%252C_&usg=__NYhLmbISdCpmftnxtcFgMm-_pYs%3D&biw=1920&bih=974&ved=0ahUKEwjMmceehJ3VAhUJy2MKHfrEA9QQyjcIPg&ei=JlhzWczuH4mWjwP6iY-gDQ#imgrc=EEm8GBcv1txsoM:

          2. By donald j johnson on

            Yeah but you can actually see the map

          3. By Lou Schirmer on

            You can actually see it on the DDmen Wiki if you go there & find it. It’s the link that’s squirrelly. Finding it takes time though, which is why I suggested to Charles to make a map category & put them all in it. Otherwise it gets tedious going through each page of images where the maps are all scattered out. Should make them easier to find.

          4. By Charles Simpson on

            The maps are in a category, maps direct link:

            http://destroyermen.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Maps

            When you get on the main page arrow on ‘Community’ slide arrow down to Special:Categories and click to get in categories. then look up Maps or what ever you want Currently there are 51 maps in the category.

          5. By Lou Schirmer on

            I must be a complete retard. I could never find it. Thanks Charles!

    3. By donald johnson on

      North Africa would be much wetter than our north Africa. Being wetter it would also be much cooler. Also the desert which though much smaller was there during the ice age. The Desert would be a buffer against the grik. Though the grik would be all along the Nile they would be slowed by the cold of the north african coast. remember that the grik like it best above 100°F and below 70 it is probably very painful for them. Think of how you would be without cloths below 50°F. That 20 degrees is an important difference between them, and us.

      Reply
      1. By Lou Schirmer on

        They seem comfortable enough with the temperature to have settled & established a regency in Persia. They probably don’t like the winters though.

        Reply
        1. By steve moore on

          Northern Persia has mountains and snow, but Persian Gulf is hot as heck. My guess they’re just on the shores of the Persian Gulf

          Reply
    4. By Alexey Shiro on

      //1. Wouldn’t the Grik have built a Great Swarm & repeatedly attacked the LOT?//

      Er, no. In “Crusade”, it was stated by Tsalka that this Great Swarm was unusual because the demographic pressure inside the Empire wasn’t on the dangerous level. The Celestial Mother called for a Great Swarm only because of her desire to finish the “prey, that escaped” – i.e. the Lemurians. So, if not for Lemurians, the Griks wouldn’t mind to left anyone around alone, except of occasional raids.

      Reply
      1. By Lou Schirmer on

        //So, if not for Lemurians, the Griks wouldn’t mind to left anyone around alone, except of occasional raids.//

        I doubt they would leave anyone in an area of decent climate “alone”. The only reason they left the Republic alone was the cold weather. Even if they are only raiding the LOT they should have picked up on some of the modern tactics & better weapons & General Esshk should know about them. The only reason I can think of for him not knowing, is the local regent keeping it a secret for some reason. Maybe the Egyptian regent has ambitions & made a deal with the LOT after being beaten a few times? Some have suggested all Grik attacking the LOT are killed, but statistically at least some should escape & the Grik would find out about the LOT from them.

        Reply
        1. By Alexey Shiro on

          As far as Tsalka knew, they would, except of usual nuisance raids from local regencies.

          Reply
    5. By steve moore on

      In Crusade, Esshk refers to the Grik having suffered setbacks before. Maybe they got hammered by something in the East African inland. And he does know that Kurokawa was allied with the LOT.

      Reply
  22. By Lou Schirmer on

    One thing I’ve been meaning to say, but keep forgetting during these exchanges of ideas, is to say thank you to Taylor for mentioning us in the Acknowledgements. You didn’t have to & it is very nice of you to say our nit picking was helpful & not a PITA.

    Reply
        1. By donald j johnson on

          If we weren’t such a PITA Taylor Anderson might get lazy and put out lesser-quality books. And we wouldn’t want that now would we

          Reply
    1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

      You guys forget: I live out in the country. There are no “author’s roundtables” or writing/reading clubs out here. My mother, God rest her, was my ONLY pre-submission critic until she passed. Since then, a submariner buddy gives it a once-over, but that’s it. Your criticism (and support) comes sadly late to save me from some goofs, but it’s all I got and I appreciate it more than I can say.

      Reply
      1. By Matthieu on

        Thank you a lot for your trust. If you want some insight, just make some people sign a NDA. The procedure is:
        1/ they sign an NDA
        2/ you send them some materials
        3/ they tell you what’s wrong, strange or weird
        4/ you change what’s wrong and you just don’t care about the rest :)
        (this is artistic licence).

        Talking about that, do you know that “editors” do not exist here? There is not such a thing: a writer writes a book and nobody comes after to “edit”. This is seen as a huge shame done only when the book is really bad (for example in some autobiographies). In “editor” has no accurate French translation. “Editeur” means “publisher”.

        Reply
        1. By Lou Schirmer on

          I think he has a few already, but it never hurts to have extra nit pickers & OCDs around.

          Reply
        2. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

          I’m not sure we have REAL editors here anymore. They go through with spell check, make a bunch of wrong global corrections I have to fix, and that’s about it. Primary “Editors” here are more the writer’s handler and representative within the publishing house nowadays. At least that has been my experience. So pretty much the same definition as you gave.

          Reply
          1. By Matthieu on

            You’re lucky not to have somebody telling you what do write! (save for you wife) :)

          2. By Alexey Shiro on

            //I’m not sure we have REAL editors here anymore. They go through with spell check, make a bunch of wrong global corrections I have to fix, and that’s about it. Primary “Editors” here are more the writer’s handler and representative within the publishing house nowadays. At least that has been my experience. So pretty much the same definition as you gave.//

            And I though the lack of editors was only our Russian national problems in post-Soviet times… :( Seems that such a problem is universal. Too much reliance of word correctors, I think.

          3. Taylor AndersonBy Taylor Anderson (Post author) on

            True, and that’s where a good editor is really valuable since they DON’T tell you what to write. Actually, I do feel blessed because in writing D-men, I get to play with so MANY subjects and genres that interest me: history, alt-history, weapons, sociology, paleontology, strategy and tactics, tech development, sci-fi, a touch of fantasy–you name it. And that’s probably why the series has been successful. There’s a little something in it for everyone–without me even trying. Certainly without me having to pander to genre purists! Nothing wrong with genre specific tales but I love to mix it up.

          4. By Matthieu on

            Talking about that, I think that the last one was more focused than the previous one. I also think that you need more pages to say everything (or that you need help to write more given the size of the whole story).

          5. By Justin on

            Devil’s Due is already close to five hundred pages – it’s supposed to be a novel, not a goddamn doorstopper.

          6. By steve moore on

            Well, folks, we’re dealing with a dozen or more story lines, spread out over most of the ‘known’ world (with a couple of continents left to go), so it’s nice to have a balance of detail and diverse subjects. Taylor, I think you handle the breadth of a series well, bringing mid-series enlistees up to date without a boring repetition (or reprinting entire sections) of the prior books. But they’re not doorstoppers in the sense of Tom Clancy’s novels.

      2. By Lou Schirmer on

        Above all else, don’t forget Generalstarwars333 in the next book! I think he was crushed not being mentioned in this one. Like the rest of us, he’s a delicate flower. :)

        Reply
        1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

          I won’t. And I didn’t this time–but I don’t know his real name and didn’t know if he wanted “Generalstarwars.” Then I got busy with other stuff and forgot.

          Reply
          1. By Lou Schirmer on

            We have to put our e-mail addresses in to post, so you could send him one to find out. He’s in school right now, so it may have to wait until he starts posting again.

          2. By Charles Simpson on

            Actually the General uses a school computer so he may be waiting school to start again to post.

          3. By donald johnson on

            Generalstarwars does use school computers and he is a very intelligent 8th grader or possibly freshman now that school is out. I bet he would have accepted acknowledgements an any name you used as long as he knows you were talking about him. And Thanks Taylor for mentioning me.

          4. By Lou Schirmer on

            He would probably go with “The General”, & be happy, happy, joy, joy.

          5. By donald j johnson on

            No the general would mix him up with an insurance company and I don’t think he would like that:-)

  23. By Matthieu on

    Fight against the alliance… What can you expect to hear in the French radio? :)

    I’ll going here to describe some typical songs that you should not know if you’re not French.

    Of course classical military songs. There are many of them as in any other country. Many come from the XIXth century (think “Souza”). Some are much older. Nothing really interesting here. Same as in any other country. Only one link to a quite old one (1239): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-gTUUgZCQo
    Of course most of them are related to specific units and you should avoid some faux-pas (using Anchor Aweight for Marines :pp )

    1/ The “chansons paillardes”. Literally highly vulgar songs transmitted from generation to generation. They are ritually transmitted from students to students (and they are not specific to “fraternities, it does not exist here).. Those songs are written in a “bréviaire” (list of religious anthems and prays… Yes I know but they use the same word!).

    Those songs are used
    – by students in “classe préparatoires” (highly competitive bachelor level in maths or science or language intended to prepare for a very selective entrance exam in a high level school such as Saint Cyr (equivalent of West point) and so on.
    – by military units (of course)
    – by medical students. Per tradition they are expected to be able to sing dirty songs in the “corps de guarde” (doctor’s room at ER). It is socially accepted. For example a cousin married a few years ago. She was 25 and going to be a surgeon. Her father was also a very high level doctor with a lot of responsibilities… but they still song with many guests some highly dirty songs about creative and recreational use of various vegetables.

    Example:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR9WBxeUtpw
    This is a 1930 recording but the song is much older so you can expect to hear that in the league. Same song, 2010, in a hard metal festival:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6U-6Mv6bSc

    2/ Sailor’s songs.
    Per tradition there are four categories:

    – work song with simple stances used to work at a specific speed in the ship.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHGY7-yMfFI (and it’s a mix on French, slang and breton).

    – entertainment song: intended to be song at the end of the day. Lyrics related to the family and so on. Some are quite modern. You’ll like this one as it does exist in English. Will you recognize it?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH57pCxgxq4

    – local songs. Many sailors were from Bretagne and many of their songs were popular on ships. Those are often dance songs.
    Example: (and it’s NOT French). You’ll like the cute singer:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J2CIhA1mwE
    Same singer as you’re all concupiscent:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oymJGS-PTOI

    3/ Drinking song (think:Irish Rover)

    4/ Something incredibly strange for you… Carnival songs!
    Explanation: fishermen left during 4-6 months. The probability of not coming back was high. So they had a huge party before as they got 50% of the money before (to support the family). As their cloths were already on the ship they had to use the ones of their wife. As it took place during the carnival, the tradition remained (especially in Dunkerque, just in front of Dover). They have some really strange traditions.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0tqQokKNKQ
    The music leader (dressed as a sergeant mayor of the old guard as they had a camp in 1804 there) leads fishermen (yellow band). When you hear fifre, you can walk. If you only have drums, you have to stop. The front ranks try to protect them from the moving crowd.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0tqQokKNKQ&t=102s
    yes it’s weird. The next day the town mayor throws herring from the city hall into the (cheering) crowd
    The strangest tradition (and don’t forget to do it if one day you go there), is to stop the carnival at midnight and to kneel in front of the statue of Jean Bart (Jean Bart was a corsair who captured a huge convoy full of wheat, thereby saving the city from famine):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKiuy6zZfWQ
    You can see that I’m not lying. Here is the song sung 3 years ago by a navy crew in front of the secretary
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tEfLPLclrI

    Reply
    1. By steve moore on

      Very nice, Matthieu. Yes, I went to the cute singer one first, but something different…

      Reply
  24. By Charles Simpson on

    Taylor is having the Destroyermen Fan Association design a concensus flag for the League of Tripoli, assuming such a thing as a consensus is possible. put you two cents in here https:

    //www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1149878291810848&set=gm.820576264777182&type=3&theater

    Reply
    1. By Justin on

      WAY too cluttered; one flag for the entire CES, like the Union Jack (with each member nation keeping a separate national flag, of course) would be best. Worth nothing is that all four members’ tricolours have red stripes, and three have white.

      Perhaps something like the NATO flag, except more fascist-like and with a red field.

      Reply
      1. By Matthieu on

        We need to follow the basic European rules for flag design. Heraldry is the be followed. There are strict rules about which color and which combination is allowed. For example red to red is a big no-no.

        My feeling is that they can’t accept to use national flags (this is technically forbidden as it lessen their own importance and in would mean that their own countries are not really independent).

        I would think of mutually acceptable flags i.e. something that can unite them. Which is related to the past and not politically hot. I would think about something related to Charlemagne. It’s relevant for those countries.

        Reply
        1. By Justin on

          Technically, the Holy Roman Empire incorporated only parts of Italy and France, and none of Spain. Perhaps the actual Roman Empire?

          Reply
          1. By Matthieu on

            You confuse the Holy Roman Empire and Charlemagne’s empire.

            Charlemagne is seen in Germany as a major king. In France he’s seen as a major king. Both are right! He is the stepson of Charles Martel (the de facto Frank king who fought against Saracens) and the son of Pépin le Bref and as a descendant of Clovis (who founded the first Frank kingdom in 481). He’s seen as the lask “King of Franks”.

            He had 3 sons and each of them has one kingdom in 843. Charles had France and became the first His son is seen as the first King of France (and not Franks). The secong had Germany (and it became the roman empire) and the third had the middle part (Netherlands/Belgium/Burgungy/Italy)

            Watch this:
            https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Frankish_Empire_481_to_814-fr.svg/1280px-Frankish_Empire_481_to_814-fr.svg.png
            Charlemagne is the emperor in 804.

            He’s the single one that united more or less western Europe before the European Union. As a consequence he can be used by fascists (ans he was as the single French SS unit was called “division Charlemagne”). At least most them ended on the wall.

          2. By Justin on

            Again, I highly doubt that the Spanish or Italians will recognize a Frankish emperor as an icon, especially with the Germans being second-class members… whereas the Romans got Spain, France AND Italy.

          3. By Matthieu on

            No way for Romans to be symbols of French and Germans.

          4. By Justin on

            Again, the rest of the CES don’t give a rodent’s backside about the Germans.

            I’ll concede to your knowledge of French attitudes towards the Romans, but it’s worth noting that they adopted the fasces.

          5. By Matthieu on

            ” the fasces.”…. had a completely different meaning for Italians and French.

            For Italians it means “fascism” (as this roman symbol was popular)
            For French it means “republic” (as this symbol of the roman republic was used during the revolution)

            As you can see, a single symbol and two different interpretations.

            French fascists used the “francisque”, a short throwing axe used by Franks.

          6. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            “No way for Romans to be symbols of French . . .”
            Right. But Fasces would not be offensive to French and I think the Italians would insist on them.

          7. By Matthieu on

            Well, they are not offensive for French. They are offensive for French fascists.

            They are the symbol of freedom, revolution, power to the people, republic and so on. This is the exact opposite of what fascists want.

            https://www.google.fr/search?q=symbole+r%C3%A9publique&client=firefox-b&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjMgJnytZfVAhVCfRoKHdR9DVoQ_AUICigB&biw=1920&bih=971#tbm=isch&q=symbole+r%C3%A9publique+faisseau

            Your symbol for the French fascist is really perfect as it takes into consideration the shape of the “francisque” that was heavily used by fascists groups.

            Talking about that, have you all noticed that in 1939 the number of real democraties (and not dominated by somebody who was closer to a dictator) was incredibly limited: USA, GB, France, Netherlands, Poland

        2. By steve moore on

          Just to throw a wrench in the works; we’re forgetting about any allies the LOT may pick up. European rules and heraldry may no longer be in fashion, so to speak. Imagine them being allies with a transfer from an English or Norse dictatorship, or a non-human transfer. Maybe transfer only works on organisms with a specific genetic code?

          Reply
          1. By Matthieu on

            Sure but in this case they need to change the flax. If we assume that it’s only the LOT we need 4 members.

    2. By steve moore on

      Thought League ships flew their own country flag or navalensign plus the swastika flag. But I think a plain white flag would do…

      Reply
    3. By Lou Schirmer on

      I don’t do Facebook, so can’t comment on Charles’ design, but I thought they already had a flag, this one:

      http://destroyermen.wikia.com/wiki/File:French_Nazi_Battleship_Lorraine.jpg

      It turns out it’s the French Nazi flag, but might be a good start, since they’re the senior partner. Could make it like a version of the German Reich war flag of the WW1 era. Have a red field in the upper left with the member nation symbols in it (or one identical symbol star, cross, hammer etc.), a cross sectioning the flag into quarters like the old Imperial German flag over a white field & the French Nazi device in a circle over the center of the cross. My two cents…& about all it’s worth.

      Reply
        1. By Matthieu on

          Well, given heraldic rules, this flag can’t be accepted.

          Reply
          1. By Lou Schirmer on

            It’s a starting point at least & fascists usually liked to put their symbols on their flags. They also would probably not want a design incorporating outdated crests & coats of arms, since that would associate them with antiquated forms of government. Did I go too far with the stripped cross? :)

          2. By Matthieu on

            “hey also would probably not want a design incorporating outdated crests & coats of arms, since that would associate them with antiquated forms of government”

            No, it links them with major historical figures.

          3. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            “No, it links them with major historical figures.”

            I have to go with Matthieu on this to a degree–if unifying heraldry that hearkens to a glorious past, yet does not associate them (as Lou says) with “antiquated forms of government” can be found. I doubt the French would re-adopt royalist devices, for example, and might even stick with symbolism of the Republic. Then again, we’re talking about two flags. The CES, while representing an arguably looser union than the League, would have to appeal to a broader range of people. The League has no civilian class to represent. It is a martial alliance becoming a nation. I would think their unifying symbols would be more pragmatic. Remember also, Laborde was a “conservative” and had essentially been banished with Savoie, so bear the internal annoyances in mind. Finally, (this is no spoiler) but the German contingent is NOT a full partner in the League, though it might occasionally be the kingmaker. The League is ruled by a TRIumvirate, remember? The German contingent (or any other imported or indigenous factions) are not–yet–represented on the banner.

          4. By Charles Simpson on

            This is my fifth try at a flag for the League of Tripoly it has the red gather of arrows for Spain’s Falange Movement, the red octagon with the blue cross with rockers for Fascist France, and the Fascae for Fascist Italy. In the League of Tripoli’s world France was first, then Italy, then Spain to embrace Fascism. Posted on the Destroyermen Wiki my fifth flag idea:

            http://destroyermen.wikia.com/wiki/File:Flag_League_of_Tripoli_trial_5.png

        2. By Lou Schirmer on

          Or we could go with a four color stripped flag representing each of the founding countries with some sort of unifying symbol in the center.

          Reply
          1. By Justin on

            Better, but somewhat loud – most flags just have three colours.

            Red and white are a given (showing up in three out of four members’ flags), so it’s a toss-up between Fascist Black and Spanish Yellow. A diagonal tricolour might appease the CES hardliners who can’t decide between vertical and horizontal.

            Failing that, keep the octagon but centre it on a white cross and/or saltire on a red field.

          2. By Lou Schirmer on

            Tried a few more variations on DA.

          3. By steve moore on

            Don’t forget religion. Most of the CES would have been Catholic, along with a lot of Germans.

          4. By Justin on

            #3 and #4 look promising… maybe spread the thunderbolts out along both upper divisions?

          5. By Lou Schirmer on

            I kept the thunderbolts together to represent each of the members of the LOT, kind of like the stars on the USA flag.

        1. By Nestor on

          Thanks Lou! Similar indeed! I wanted to constrain myself to just 3 colors (red, white and blue) and abstract shapes. Your last two would look great as regimental insignia, something I’d put on my uniform patch or the side of a vehicle/ship/plane.

          Reply
      1. By Justin on

        VERY nice!

        Perhaps each member of the triumvirate will have the white octagon/red field, but each with their own individual symbol in the centre – Spanish with just the arrows, and so on and so forth.

        Reply
  25. By steve moore on

    Don’t really think we’re going to see the LOT within 3-5 years, so…

    Mine the Zambezi and drop the Love Bombs, to keep the griks bottled up as much as possible…

    Find the Uboat, it’s got to run low on fuel sometime…

    Explore up the East African coast in steps with Nancy’s and AVDs…

    Cut a deal with Muriname… surrender now and get favorable treatment, or get eaten by the Grik when you’re no longer of any use. Maybe offer the Uboaters the same deal, they can join fellow Germans in the RRP. They didn’t sink anyone…

    Reply
    1. By Charles Simpson on

      Basically there are still the two fronts, to the east it looks like a campaign to wrest the pass of fire from the Holy Dominion possible with help from the New United States.

      To the west we have the Zambesi River here is where the Grik must break out to the sea. IF the alliance has areas on both sides of the river forts and perhaps chains can be employed to bottle up the Grik. I think the main effort will be between the Zambesi and Ungee river, see map:

      http://destroyermen.wikia.com/wiki/File:Republic_of_Real_People_Front.png

      Here the Alliance and the Republic of Real People will join to drive down the Grik IMHO.

      Reply
      1. By Charles Simpson on

        Consider Santi Cat has three anchors and chains that could be used in combination with boats or rafts to chain the Zambezi River trapping the Grik galley fleet up river. It would also concentrate them to make carpet bombing effective, burn baby burn!

        Reply
        1. By donald j johnson on

          The problem with jeans on the Zambezi is that it is 2 – 3 miles across and you would need lots of floats that are Unsinkable and won’t burn to prevent them from cutting the chains and breaking the blockade. If the chains are long steel floats then it may be practical but they would have to be long enough and with enough compartments internally to prevent a single hole from sinking them I would recommend 100ft long floats with 10 compartments in each made of half inch steel to make them hard to sink. Depending on the width of the river is going to take 520 floats per mile at 100 ft per float. It is not going to be easy but it could be done.

          Reply
          1. By donald j johnson on

            I note that in the previous that if the grik want to cut it all it would really take is a single 500 lb mine to break a float or chain so we would also need something to prevent Mines from striking the floats and chains. I guess this just means we need to think more about how to make them Unsinkable and Unbreakable with Grik technology

        2. By steve moore on

          let’s work with the 20th century technology they have now, instead of regressing a century or two.

          *Mine the Zambezi at choke points.
          *Have AVD mother ships outside the mouth supplying both Nancys and PTs on a constant effort to keep them bottled up, and firebomb upstream concentrations by night.

          Any Grik ship outside the Zambezi is going to run out of ammunition shortly, and supplies shortly after that since there are few defenseless coasts left to plunder for food.

          The Union doesn’t have to go up the Zambezi anytime soon; let the Griks stew in their own pot (sorry for the pun but I couldn’t help it) and turn on themselves. There are already mutterings among the Hij, it seems, and as more mature, sensible Grik, they might be more willing to accomodate with another group of ‘Hunters’, or with Halik, rather than have their existence threatened by a rabid majority of Uul who want to be fed.

          Reply
          1. By Lou Schirmer on

            //The Union doesn’t have to go up the Zambezi anytime soon; let the Griks stew in their own pot (sorry for the pun but I couldn’t help it) and turn on themselves. //

            Actually, I think they’re obligated to as part of the two prong attack strategy supporting the Republic’s invasion. That strategy was to split the Grik forces, so neither the Union nor the Republic would face overwhelming numbers. If the Union doesn’t press an attack the Grik can turn south in large numbers & plow the Republic’s army under.

          2. By steve moore on

            I agree, but attrition of forces while holding the Grik attention (they are more focused on Grik City) would reduce the strength of Grik forces just as an attack would, without endangering Allied ground forces. Attacking up the Zambezi is going to be on a very narrow front, with probably primitive road networks and Griks on either flank. Not much of a schwerpunkt here. Some American general came up with the simile of holding the enemy’s nose to keep his attention, while punching with the other fist.

            Plus, if the Grik move south, they’re going on foot without too much mobile AAA. The Grik don’t really want the RRP territory; better to have them remain focused on attacking east, and convert the advancing RRP into a blocking force while giving them valuable combat experience.

            Regardless of what some of the Allies feel, destroying the Grik as a race is probably not in the best interests of the Allies in the long run. Halik has come around, as other lesser Griks have; better to have the remaining African Hij as settled neutrals and a potential roadblock, possibly ally against the LOT. Imagine having the Hij directing Griks in building a Trans-Africa railway to open up ports on the West Coast of Africa, or to advance into Central Africa for mineral resources. Remember, the Union was formed on the concept of civilised behavior

            Just my humble opinion, will defer to better students of military strategy.

        3. By Charles Simpson on

          Let’s not forget the Celestial Mother is getting more independent too along with the thousands of Uul who are becoming self aware. Esshk and The Chooser may not be able to keep the lid on if there is a reversal like not being able to launch the invasion fleet. If that fleet is destroyed, and leaflets in the Scientific Language AKA English suggest an honorable peace and mention the League wishing the Grik and the Alliance to Destroy each other. Perhaps General of the Sky Hideki Muriname may be able to make General Esshk see this logic.

          Reply
          1. By steve moore on

            Agreed, Charles. Muriname staying with the Griks gives them a weapon to guard their side of the peace, but if Muriname fled with just the planes, he’ll run out of parts soon unless the Grik can tool up to replace them without the Japanese left behind on Zanzibar. All in all, I think Muriname could cut a better deal with the RRP.

          2. By Charles Simpson on

            Fuel the Grik can supply, but Muriname has just one load out of ammunition with none in the pipeline, and no repair parts. Basically there is no improvement over the Alliance state of the art Aircraft, therefore he has no edge.

          3. By steve moore on

            Well, one thing Muriname and his guys do have… a quick ride out of town, with no aerial posse to follow them.

  26. By William Curry on

    Tomorrow on the 14th of July, everybody sing the “Chant du depart” in honor of Bastille day!

    Reply
    1. By matthieu on

      Please record it! I really want to hear you saying “U” as [U] and not [OU]. More seriously it’s not that popular here as the music and the lyrics are old fashionned. I mean that they sound quite old and it’s difficult to sing as it has been designed first for opera singers.

      Talking about that, what about lemurian songs? Do they have “patriotic songs”? Or are they going to create something like “nordic sagas”? Do they have the equivalent of Souza?

      Are they going to write books? live songs? revenge songs? (I don’t really know how to translate it nor if it’s common in many countries. I’ll try to translate an old one really fast one for you to see what I mean. And Alexey yes you should have some!). It has been writen after the 1870-71 war and of course was used in 1914-18. It’s supposed to be sung by a small girl:

      Little dad, is it time for carnival?
      As you’re dressed as a soldier
      is it for a joke?
      or to threaten (gently) the little children?

      Non my daughter, I leave for the “patrie”
      It’s a duty where all daddies are going
      Kiss me my little cherished daughter
      I’ll come back home really fast

      Tell me mum what is this medal?
      And this letter that the postman is giving?
      Tell me mum why do you cry and and faint?
      They killed little cherished daddy

      Yes my daughter they killed your father
      Cry with me as we hate them (reference to the next line)
      Those awfull wars that make mother cry
      and kill the fathers of the little blond angels

      Snow is falling on the doors of the curt
      There is sitting a child on Steasbourg
      She says there despite the cold and the icy wind
      She stays there despite the end of the day

      A man is passing, to the gild gives [money]
      She recognizes the german uniform
      The she not accept the given money
      To the enemy she says proudly

      Keep your gold, i keep my power
      Prussian solder move away
      I’m a daughter of France
      To the enemy I don’t ask for money

      While prying in this cathedral
      My mother dies below this crumbling entrance
      Killed by one of your bullets
      Killed by one of you shells
      My father died on the battlefield
      I haven’t seen the coffin
      Killed by one of your bullets
      This is why I’m mounrning

      You had Alsace and Lorraine
      You have millions of foreigners
      You tried to turn the plain [Alsace] into german land
      But you’ll hever have my heart
      As my heart will remain French.

      Reply
      1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

        I love that. Matthieu, and I’d love to hear it in French!

        Reply
        1. By donald j johnson on

          Not sure how that would translate for the lemorans. Their only real enemy wouldn’t be giving them food or money because they operate on a catch and eat option

          Reply
          1. By Clifton Sutherland on

            Off the top of my head, some of the civil war songs carry such themes of going off to war and sacrificing for the nation. Johnny comes marching home” Battle Cry of Freedom” and “Battle Hymn of the Republic” are but a few. Some of the Confederate songs focus more on defiance against outsiders, I suppose, but I’m not as knowledgeable there.

            Johnny: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tIsXLyZcWI

            Battle Cry: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qK3H4JJ-8Bg (and the confederate version as well! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz6Jk8RttlE)

            Hymn of Republic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy6AOGRsR80

            And of course there are dozens more military tunes, unit anthems, etc. But this is what just came to mind at the moment.

          2. Taylor AndersonBy Taylor Anderson (Post author) on

            Many, many songs of that era reflect the same sentiments, and a large percentage of ACW songs and melodies were borrowed from Europe (England, Scotland, even Germany, but with an emphasis on Ireland). Sometimes just the words were changed around a bit, or they wrote all new songs and applied them to ancient, familiar melodies. Most are quite stirring and range from keenly martial to simple “wish I was home” songs. In the latter vein, “Jonny has gone for a soldier” is very good, but certainly predates the ACW and was, I believe, inspired by the Irish rising. “Lorena” is another poignant one. I’m sure Joe has a better list off the top of his head. In the former vein that Clifton described, the first lines of another are:
            “With my knapsack on my back,
            my rifle on my shoulder-
            I’ll march away to the firing line
            and kill that Yankee soldier–”
            I’ve heard this performed with words from the US-Mexican War (with musket substituted for rifle) so it is probable that it is quite a bit older and would serve as a generic war song for the ages (of linear combat). Just “insert enemy name____here.”

          3. By steve moore on

            Geez, maybe the next audio release should have a soundtrack. Or better still, the next transfer include a complete USO tour. Supposedly Rochefort had half a battleship’s band transferred to him after Pearl Harbor and they made decent code analysts.

          4. By Matthieu on

            Thank you a lot for your answers. I notice that those are not exactly “revenge songs”. I mean “intended to make soldiers win the next one”. It would be for example a song used by former confederation soldiers to prepare the next war.

            Obviously it means that you have to loose a battle or a war first! There were many such songs in France between 1870 and 1914 (about Alsace-Lorraine). [note: Clifton, it’s the only non negotiable thing for France in WW1].
            Some Germans songs existed after WW1. Of course there were many such Russian songs after the beginning of WW2.

            Many songs had two versions: one for the general public and one for more mature ones with descriptions of highly creative stunts.

            I’ll try to do a post on the topic as it’s going to entertain you.

            You’re right, many US songs were close to European ones.

          5. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            Well, “I’m a Good Ol’ Rebel” might qualify. It’s kind of the ultimate “sore loser” song, and it even has a catchy tune. All the same, I almost cringe when I hear it. And I say that as a descendant of Confederate soldiers–who accepted that they lost fair and square. (Their writings actually indicate they were amazingly philosophical about it). In effect, they recognized that they did their best, fighting above their weight, and got beat. I don’t know if they would have sung “I’m a Good ol’ Rebel” or not–possibly during the excesses associated with Reconstruction–but doubtful as they mellowed. While sometimes prone to stubbornness and propelled to rash actions on “principle,” it just isn’t in the family genes to hold grudges. Had those Reconstruction excesses continued, however, I suspect the “principle switch” might’ve been flipped at some point and I probably wouldn’t exist because all my ancestors would’ve made unendurable nuisances of themselves…

      2. By Charles Simpson on

        Way back in Distant Thunders Music at the Screw was described as a combination of American Music and Lemurian music. Just what pure Lemurian music sounds like has never been discussed, and with the Big Band Sound of American Swing influencing it I doubt we will hear native Music.

        Reply
        1. By steve moore on

          Well, they never found Glen Miller’s plane… always hope.

          Reply
          1. By Charles Simpson on

            Glenn Miller a prisoner of the League of Tripoli this means war!!!!

          2. By donald j johnson on

            Somewhere I read something about bagpipes and I suspect howling cats and bagpipes would sound about the in a bar

        2. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

          Lemurian music and entertainment was briefly observed at an early meeting in Nakja-Mur’s Great Hall at Baalkpan.

          Reply
      1. By Matthieu on

        Mental note: next time, check that he’s dead, even with a full clip inside :)

        Reply
    2. By Steve Moore on

      Funny, one of the first things I learned in French 1 back in high school was the “Marseille”. Back when CDG was more than just an airport full of cops with tommy guns…

      Reply
        1. By steve moore on

          Spell check doesn’t do francais, at least probably not without a donation to Bill Gates… :-(

          Reply
          1. By Matthieu on

            because the name is “marseillaise” (means “the one [mort of the time song] that comes from Marseille”)

          2. By steve moore on

            Thanks. Next time I will just hum along

          3. By donald j johnson on

            Have a few bars instead of standing behind them

  27. By Joe Thorsky on

    What is the current Black Market price to have an emergency medical supply of Destroyermen Polta Paste salve, ointment or cream air dropped and shipped to me ASAP?
    Condition’s worse than “Poison Ivy” mp3 by The Coasters

    Taylor, Everyone! “It’s an Up and Down World” mp3 by Johnny Adams and I do sincerely apologize and am so sorry to have left you guys in the lurch and high and dry (That’s me now for sure!) but after getting unexpectedly waylaid , sidetracked and grounded “That’s Life” mp3 by Frank Sinatra by Mother Nature’s debilitating siren call “Walking the Back Streets and Crying mp3 by Little Milton I have been generally under the weather and incapacitated for past ten days or so (at least as the Grik Birds fly, I reckon!) recuperating.
    Despite all of the impediments and distractions, have still managed to get 3/5ths through Taylor’s Devils’s Due and I just can’t wait to finally finish reading this just might be for me your (Taylor) best written work yet.
    The read so far, is a great multi-disciplinary and multi-faceted scholarly primer that seamlessly and creatively interweaves and merges together both World War Two History with Science Fiction. Answering for now “Yesterday/Today”, “This for That”, “Here to There” and “Why-Because” in a completely novel and enduring, compelling, captivating and enthralling layman’s manner which has now suddenly become your own signature SOP and identifying trademark.
    By the way; It doesn’t require another pyrrhic capitulation, surrender or another Hallick to know that I’ve again been Snookered and Skinnered by BF Taylor and Company!!! (Good Grief!)
    And Taylor. I am really looking forward to being around for your next and 12th!
    To the “Shores of Americay” mp3 by a “Jolly Roving Tar” mp3 by The Irish Rovers.?!!

    FYI and open for comment:
    Humphrey Bogart describes the Specs of a four stacker in the movie “Across the Pacific”. Great scene and commentary of a four stacker DD on patrol!

    Question?
    What significance is there to the year and date of 1956 to Courtney Bradford’s “World’s I’ve Wondered” Textbook and Treatise. (Hint: Is it only coincidental that it was published in the same year that the Hungarian Revolution against the Soviet Union had also began?).

    Reply
    1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

      Thanks Joe! And–I guess you got real poison Ivy? Yaak. Amazingly, considering how many things I’m seasonally allergic to, poison ivy has no affect on me. Poison OAK makes up for it and causes a reaction similar to shingles!
      Haven’t seen that Bogey film. Have to find it.

      Reply
      1. By donald j johnson on

        Well with me when I was younger I used to grab the poison oak and throw it at everybody else it was messing with me because I was immune to it never tried poison ivy as never seen it.

        Reply
    2. By Steve Moore on

      Well, Gold Bond powder seems to work for me. Plus the ticks don’t seem to like it either.

      Reply
  28. By a loa on

    Hello all

    I hope that you have a great day. I’m going to go on holidays soon and will come back close to August the 24th so maybe you won’t see me a lot (1 week with family, 2 weeks camping, 1 week at Venice). We’ll celebrate the fact that my 6 YO daughter is “officially” (well according to the surgeon) cured for her congenital clubfoot (a lot of fun involved: weekly changed cast from birth to 2 MO then foot abduction brace full time during one year + daily physiotherapy then nightly during two more years). He sees her now twice a year to check and everything is ok. She begins dance this fall.

    Reply
    1. By Alexey Shiro on

      I’m really happy to hear this! Wish best luck to you and your family!

      Reply
    2. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

      Congratulations. I’m very happy to hear about your daughter and can certainly join you in your joy and relief. Having a (now grown) daughter, I still cherish my memories of her at your daughter’s age. That is a PRECIOUS time, and I’m so glad SHE will better enjoy it now as well.

      Reply
    3. By Steve Moore on

      Best wishes to your daughter, hope she does well. Enjoy their youth, it passes SO fast.

      Reply
      1. By Matthieu on

        Thank you a lot you all.

        Well, I’m already digging some holes in the garden. She has a boyfriend at school and I need to work on an “accident”…. Ok, he’s 6 too but this is not the problem!

        Reply
  29. By Lou Schirmer on

    Do any of the old salts remember…Bean Day? My dad was Gold Platers before & during the war & I remember him talking about it in awed tones mixed with equal parts horror & amusement. Beans for breakfast, beans for lunch & you guessed it, beans for dinner, with other stuff mixed in presumably. The breakfast beans may or may not have bean :) lima beans. I’m amazed there weren’t more on-board ship fires or explosions those days, & thinking about 30-40 men in a cramped berth with poor ventilation, boggles the mind.

    On a different note, I guess the DD cover art raised hopes of a transfer in the middle of a battle…& were dashed by the book. No Grik birds involved in the action either. MacchiSchmitts on the cover would have been interesting. Taylor, do you have any input or approval/disapproval rights on cover art? Maybe you could have one of the local Texas boys or girls do paintings to your sketched ideas?

    Reply
    1. By Steve Moore on

      Preferably one that knows how to draw people, understands that fire control is usually pointed in the same direction that your guns are shooting, and most of all, perspective. Oh yeah, and the fact that 4″50 guns don’t fire remotely, even when they’re pointed away from the enemy.

      Reply
      1. By Justin on

        1) It’s Ace Books. Remember what their art department did to the Lost Fleet covers?

        2) Even if they got all the technical details right, drawing/rendering people is HARD.

        Reply
        1. By Matt on

          I like how in the books the main character (his name escapes me right now) makes a joke about how they always depict him in power armor with a rifle when that literally never happens in the series. Good to know the art department of publishers in their world is as dim witted as the ones in ours

          Reply
          1. By donald j johnson on

            Now why would anyone want to carry a rifle when wearing power armor unless it’s not a rifle firing bullets but instead is a power rifle firing a gigawatt laser or something

          2. By Clifton Sutherland on

            Rail or coil-based rifle, perhaps?

          3. By Justin on

            Better yet, exactly why would a Fleet Admiral be armed, armoured, AND standing on the front line?

          4. By Alexey Shiro on

            “Lost Fleet” by Jack Campbell. The main character never left his flagship for the first few books, but the cover art always deplicted him on some planet, in armor and with some badass gun (he never participated in ANY firefights at all)

    2. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

      I have had input into covers in the past (thank God, since the first cover of Into the Storm had a generic DD and I threw an absolute fit–when I was theoretically in a much worse position to do so). Oddly, I actually seem to have less clout now after all the mergers, etc. Several covers were pretty much exactly what I wanted (with little exceptions). Iron Gray Sea, Deadly Shores, Blood in the Water, are examples. I made suggestions for all, but Straits–and now Devil’s Due basically ignored them. Problem seems to be that the Art Dept does a cover before they really know what is going on and then it is incredibly hard to get them to change anything. On DD, they DID include the big battle flag, like I requested, but it was a 50 star flag! You would NOT believe how hard it was for me to get them to change THAT in the face of objections like “who will notice?” Really??? Since there is almost no publicity for established authors anymore, (they consider them on auto pilot and rely on word of mouth and social media–that’s why your reviews on Amazon, etc. are so important. (OF COURSE something as glaring as an anachronistic flag is a big deal because THEIR cover reflects on MY intelligence!) Anyway, generally (except for the resigned acceptance that they flat WON’T put people on the covers) I’ve been relatively pleased with them. They get attention and are at least more reflective of the story than most covers out there, so I shouldn’t really gripe. And at least Walker is depicted as a semblance of a 4-stacker!

      Reply
      1. By Steve Moore on

        Hope they don’t find the Taylor Andersons (the hot blondes) that keep popping up on search every now and then. The covers might start looking less like The Lost World and more like a Mickey Spillane thriller.

        Reply
    3. By Lou Schirmer on

      The guy’s name was John “Black Jack” Geary.

      So no old guys out there remember Bean Day? Interesting factoid:
      “Navy beans get their name because of the frequency they were served to sailors at sea. Navy beans are small in size and compatible in flavor and texture. Often used by commercial baked bean manufacturers, the Navy Bean is flexible. It could easily show up in your next batch of baked beans, soups, salads, casseroles, or ethnic dishes.”

      Reply
  30. By Matthieu on

    Understanding psychology….

    Given what the alliance knows about griks (if they are not completely stupid they are going to launch a major intelligence gathering among their griks city ones, the japaneses ones), they can use … hormones!

    Just imagine that they release one or two female griks right in the path of the swarm just before a battle. Discipline would fail immediately and they would jump at each other with modern weapons.

    Reply
    1. By Justin on

      I don’t think any Alliance members are callous enough to put any female in that frigging mosh pit. Both Grikesses would likely be dead, crippled, or at least physically and emotionally scarred.

      Dropping a stink bomb full of female Grik pheromones, on the other hand…

      Reply
      1. By Frank on

        How about just having a Nancy or flea-shooter crop dust a Grik hoard with female hormones. The resulting confusion and conflicted “messages” could have the effect of freezing the Grik in thier tracks.

        Reply
        1. By Steve Moore on

          Sort of like dropping a few delayed-action bombs along with the incendiaries just to keep Grik firemen on their toes.

          What would really mess things up is just dropping the pheromones on Old Soffessk, where the enlightened Hij hang out. Imagine what the blue-collar Uul are going to think when they see the mucky-mucks going sex-mad.

          Reply
          1. By donald j johnson on

            The common ull are not just going to watch the others go crazy the hormones will make them all go crazy. The whole place going to turn into a big mosh pit

    2. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

      That would be a wicked scheme (leave it to our Frenchman to counterattack with sex!) Ha! Justin’s refinement is a good notion.

      Reply
      1. By Clifton Sutherland on

        Not to mention it must be much easier to transport a stinky love bomb than an irritated She-Grik.

        Reply
      2. By Steve White on

        Harry Turtledove used that in his colonization series. The reptiles there went absolutely nuts with the scent of a woman, or alternatively, with a taste of ginger (it was cocaine/heroin to them). So maybe we need to find a different way to beat the Grik 😉

        Reply
      3. By Steve Moore on

        Wonder when the Union will get around to starting a USO. Makes you think how you find a Hope-like host who can entertain multiple species…

        Reply
    1. By Justin on

      Or spinosaurids (Suchomimus, Baryonyx, Spinosaurus) in the Zambezi and the Congo… even Gustav-sized crocs would be a regular occurence.

      Reply
      1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

        One might imagine so. The Mangoro R. Lizard Silva torpedoed in BITW had a little Spinosaurid vibe–and crocs are established.

        Reply
  31. By Steve Moore on

    This is probably a question for Taylor to answer. The rule is, no actual ships from Reddy’s WW2 world. We’ve seen an Amerika from a slightly different time line arrive, even though the Destroyerman world’s version did not leave the US after the war started in time to make it to the South Atlantic.

    That being said, logic would follow that ANYTHING without a double in the Destroyerman WW2 world is valid for transfer, since the ‘builders’ of the Squall see to have the ability to clone the Squall to different time lines. We know the LOT has been subjugating both human and non-human species; how about giving up on Hetzers and T-34s and come up with something REALLY to transfer in. How about a cruise ship full of Neanderthal-type hominids?

    Reply
    1. By Justin on

      I’ll let Gray and Sandra do the talking (Deadly Shores, Ch12):

      “…Now Bradford comes up with this new brainstorm that there ain’t just two ‘universes,’ but maybe gobs of ’em! That’s creepy as hell. It can’t be true, can it, Skipper? I mean, with swarms of screwy places folks could’ve come from, what else are we liable to run into? What if there’s some earth where Martians took over, an’ they’ve wound up here?”

      Sandra covered a smile by rubbing her chin. “I don’t think you need to worry about Martians, Mr. Gray. If Mr. Bradford’s ‘radio metaphor’ is right, such a historically distinctive ‘frequency’ should not be received . . . here.”

      In other words, Neanderthals, aliens and others would probably have another world to get dumped into – they’re on 96.9 FM, we’re on 101.1.

      Reply
    2. By Justin on

      That said, the rules seem a bit unclear when it comes to Lemurian, Gentaa or Grik transfers. Perhaps a pre-dreadnought full of Victorian monocle-wearing Grik could show up…

      “Well, this is a spot of luck! Good to find another bunch of civilized folk in these parts… dearie me, look at them go! What say you that we lend a hand against these dreadful savages?”

      Reply
      1. By Steve Moore on

        And we haven’t even brought up the subject of a group of Americans from a world where the South won the Civil War…. that subject’s been beaten to death by a number of authors.

        Reply
        1. By Matt on

          Probably about as much as the old Germans won WW2 trope. Maybe it’s been abused even more? Turtledove as much as I love his work has had more than one story involving the south winning. One involved time traveling south Africans and the other ended up with a southern Hitler.

          Reply
          1. By Clifton Sutherland on

            Jake Featherston was quite the son of a gun.

      2. By Alexey Shiro on

        //That said, the rules seem a bit unclear when it comes to Lemurian, Gentaa or Grik transfers. //

        Or M’fishes. They clearly are from some VERY different world.

        So, I think, that Bradford would change his theory after a while.

        P.S. It would be really interesting to know, what League scientist thought about the multiverse… They have more scientifically-trained personnel, and more time to work it out.

        Maybe in some attempt to defuse the relations a bit League would agree to participate in a scientific conference, say, in Alexaandra?

        Reply
      3. By Clifton Sutherland on

        Yeah, I cant remember if we ever discussed this, but this receiver world, so to speak, must have a native species. It is likely either the Grik or Lemurians, although both are seemingly limited geographically. Maybe it was those who built “the Palace of Forgotten Gods”? For all we know, those original native species could have been displaced in Africa and the Pacific by Grik, Humans, and Lemurians. Perhaps the originals are still out there, somewhere?

        Reply
  32. By Justin on

    Assuming it’s the League against Greeks/Romans/Phoenicians/Byzantines, remember that dreadnoughts have ram bows – I suspect that even cruising speed would be fatal to a galley.

    Reply
    1. By Matt on

      And while I’m sure a trireme ramming a destroyer would hurt it, it would be far from fatal and it would only scuff the paint on an armored battleship.

      Reply
      1. By donald j johnson on

        The galleys would only Ram a Destroyer if the five hundred or so grick’s onboard were trying to capture the Destroyer and at that point they wouldn’t care what happened to their Galley as long as they captured the Destroyer. They wouldn’t know how to run it but they would have it. The smart new gricks would have the understanding to keep alive as many of the crew members as possible so they would run the ship for the Griks. However the odds of this happening would be very low because even the 50 caliber is on board would be sufficient to sync the galley at close ramming range.

        Reply
  33. By Matthieu on

    Galley galley and galleys

    I don’t know why but we’re going to discuss a lot about galleys. Galleys have numerous advantages and drawbacks
    – limited range (for lack of water)
    – not really seaworthy (that’s why they were limited to the med and baltic sea)
    – limited sustained speed. The shortest distance between Africa and Madagascar is 400 km. If we assume that their speed is 8 knots (it’s very optimistic for them and assumes that they can use the wind and row at the same time), they need 28 hours to cross the channel.
    – On each of them (assuming that they are using blueprints captured from Greeks or Romans or something like that), the most efficient shape (a trireme) stacks close to 200 people on a single ship.
    – if you want to move 100.000, you need close to 500 ships but it assumes that they come “light” (with only hand weapons, no ammunition nor artillery).

    Now just assume that you want to sink many of them. What should you do? In 1940 the British navy was planning to run at high speed just on front of German barges to swamp them.

    Reply
    1. By steve moore on

      Well, if they get held back by stormy weather, just assign more Griks to the galley to keep the stewpots full.

      Reply
  34. By Jeff on

    Liked Devil’s Due very much. These books always take two passes; one to see what happens right away and the other to absorb detail. Waiting on June 2018 now …

    To revive a topic that no one other than me seems to care about much: who would play who in a theoretical movie?

    I only recently found HBO’s Deadwood and binge watched it. Indeed, I easily see Leon Rippy as Chief Gray as Taylor mentioned several months ago. Timothy Olyphant would make a pretty good Captain Reddy too.

    That said, I’m grabbing a ’03 and headed to the range. I’ll be the only one there imagining bipedal lizards.

    Reply

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