March 17

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Devil's Due



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Posted March 17, 2016 by Taylor Anderson in category "Uncategorized

2,913 COMMENTS :

  1. By Justin on

    Say, what’s the Republic’s procedure for a shakedown run? Into the Dark, through the eye and back out again?

    Reply
    1. By Steve Moore on

      My guess would be up the west coast and back, they seem to go that way on a regular basis. If they have rails going up that way, perhaps establish a Fliegerkorps base up that way, with resupply by train.

      Reply
  2. By Clifton Sutherland on

    SPOILERS, in case we are still doing that!

    Given new information in the latest book, it seems to me that the League has some sort of political objective beyond merely surviving in this new world. I imagine that, given the fascist political nature of the leadership, it’s likely they are establishing some sort of “lebenstraum” for their people in the Med. Will we be getting real, genuine war crimes now? Rounding up primitive peoples on this world to make way for the master race of Leaugers?

    Reply
    1. By Steve Moore on

      Pretty obvious what Gravois thinks of non-human species. Question is, how much of a supply of humans does the LOT have, how many of them are females, and where did they come from… The Dooms, perhaps? You could load a lot of them on a transport accompanied by an oiler.

      Reply
      1. By Clifton Sutherland on

        I imagine there have been plenty of Med peoples being transported through the ages… Romans, Greeks, Phoneticians, etc. Maybe there is already a coalition there, and the Leauge has been busy pacifying them?

        Reply
        1. By Justin on

          Not anywhere in the actual Med – against a World War invasion fleet, they’d do about as well as the original Lemurians against the Grik. Any “Rebel Alliance” would need to either be far away from Libya (North Sea, Black Sea, etc) or fairly modernized to stand up against battleships, airplanes and machine guns.

          Reply
        2. By Steve Moore on

          What would be REALLY funny if a bunch of ‘our’ WW2 Germans came through and tried to take over. A lot of Luftwaffe planes went into the drink, some could have made it to the other side. Ditto for U-boats; a lot of those were marked as lost only because they didn’t come home. I’m still amused by the thought of French, German, Italian and Spanish fascists agreeing on ANYTHING.

          Reply
          1. By Justin on

            Depends on which Luftwaffe planes – it’s an Ice Age, so for all we know, the English Channel is above ground right now.

            I’m guessing an Atlantic transfer would have something to do with HMS Resistance, a cancelled BB – the R-class was considered “second-rate” and demoted to convoy duty.
            From there, there’s got to be some scenario where they and a U-Boat ended up in Doggerland helping a Viking/Saxon/Norman/Napoleonic civilization against the League.

          2. By Justin on

            Alternatively, Resistance could be on her way to Newfoundland… when she crosses over into a Vinland occupied by Norse, Beothuk and English explorers.

            Or none of that happens and we get something else. Who knows?

          3. By Clifton Sutherland on

            I feel that vikings are a likely candidate for a civ. They were seafaring, roamed across Europe for several hundred years, and were quite adaptable when settling down in a new culture.

          4. By donald johnson on

            As the sea-levels are almost the same then we have the end of an ice age or the beginning of one. as best as i can tell from the maps there is no more than 20 feet difference between the world we know and the destroyer-man reality. were it a full blown ice age there would be a 300 ft drop in sea-level and they would be locked in the med and the area’s south of Borneo would be dry land all the way to Australia except for a few places where it is really deep. Walker would have been beached on arrival.
            Given that I feel that the Vikings would have resettled their homeland then spread out if they got to destroyer-land reality. they would also have brought their own level of tech with them. They knew good steel and metal smithing. they had books and writing of their own as well at what they got while traveling. they conquered large parts of Russia and only got driven out because they lost large army’s trying to protect their conquests fro the moguls. Expect them to be formidable if they have been here 1000 years or more.

          5. By Justin on

            Again, New Guinea is connected to Australia and the Tonga Ridge is above water, and again, both are WAY deeper than 30 feet. The existence of Doggerland depends on various butterflies which depend on our author (though the North and Baltic seas are probably open regardless).

            Indeed, a Norse civilization would be a good ally. As long as they’ve managed to get their hands on gunpowder, that is.

            Fun fact: “Viking” is actually the Norse word for “pirate.”

          6. By Clifton Sutherland on

            Speaking of Vikings, has anyone read Bernard Cornwell at all? I would love to see someone as badass as Uthred teaming up with Silva to wreck some Leauge butt!

          7. By Justin on

            Well, crud. Silva AND a boatful of Uhtred’s sociopathic Danes cannot end well.

    2. By Matthieu on

      HUGE WARNING: fascist is NOT nazism

      This is even quite different. Think more of Spain (Franco) or Italy (Mussolini) than Germany. This is very different. Read the internet page on the topic:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

      They are racist, pro-dictatorship, nationalists, for economic planning and so on. You should not mix them with nazis, it’s completely different. They are even far more dangerous that way as they are not so obviously crazy and dangerous.

      For us they are guilty of war crimes and maybe genocides but it’s probably not worse than what REALLY happened in many colonies. Google some important topics:
      – Herero and Namaqua genocide (from Germany)
      – Atrocities_in_the_Congo_Free_State (Belgium)
      France was not better in Algeria. USA shot on sight in Philippines. England crushed rebellions in India many times…

      Reply
      1. By Alexey Shiro on

        //They are racist,//

        Well… there were Brazilean Integralists, who were strictly anti-rasist. Considering that France was (as far as I knew, of course!) quite egalitarian in 1920-1930s, I suspect that CES less inclined about racial questions. After all, they somehow were able to form their alliance!

        Reply
        1. By Matt on

          I think it’s fair to say that the league is racist. That’s not exactly Earth shattering. Probably not any more than most Europeans were at the time. I don’t think they are as bad as Nazis in that regard at least. The thing to remember is in the 1940’s, everyone was racist so I doubt it will make them stand out much. The destroyer men are certainly more accepting than other Americans from the 40’s but they kind of have to be. It’s yard to make friends otherwise. I think the biggest “evil” aspects of the league is that they are clearly ruthless and have no scruples or illusions about how war should be. You would expect them to have a little bit of honor but they seem to not value anyone beyond how big of a potential threat they are. They sunk a hospital ship and killed a lot of civilians for a cheap political gain that didn’t even work out. These are the guys that would use the kudzu bomb without a second though.

          Reply
          1. By Alexey Shiro on

            // The thing to remember is in the 1940’s, everyone was racist //

            Except the USSR, I must point out.

            //. They sunk a hospital ship and killed a lot of civilians for a cheap political gain that didn’t even work out.//

            Well, let’s be fair – the “Amerika” provoked the shooting by attempting to ram “Savoie”. I agree, that the whole situation was created by League, but they supposed it to be bloodless seizing, after all.

            The problem with “Amerika” is that the ship already submitted to “Savoie”‘s demand. And THEN – and only then! – the “Amerika” launched a surprize attack. As far as I knew international naval law of this era, such action (attempt to use declared surrender to launch a surprize attack) was considered, actually, a war crime. Let’s not forget, that Laborde have no clue what actually happened onboard “Amerika”!

        2. By Matthieu on

          Considering that France was (as far as I knew, of course!) quite egalitarian in 1920-1930

          France… in France. Not in colonies! Don’t forget “le statut de l’indigène” meaning that you had 2nd rate citizens (and even 3rd rate ones) with (very) limited civil rights.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indig%C3%A9nat

          It was much better in the 20-30’s. Something really strange was that, at the same time, some black men (for example) could become very high level civil servants in France (mainland). Basically the status was not completely related to the origin, allowing authorities to “reward” some people.

          Reply
      2. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

        Very true. They can be rather hyper nationalist, though, which certainly can contribute to racism in various ways. Oh, by the way, Matthieu, thanks for the kind words about my technical descriptions of the “Derby” guns. I was able to write that since I have, believe it or not, been blessed with the opportunity to live–RAPID–fire a pair of French 75s. :) Now, as to their employment, that was deliberately somewhat amateurish–as was the Republic’s entire approach to the war. Bekiaa tried to get them to organize things differently, and succeeded to a degree, but just couldn’t get them to completely do away with their archaic TOE. The batteries were very poorly situated and she did the only thing with them that she could–cram them in the gaps left by the various legion’s dispositions. Maybe her fury and desperation at that point didn’t translate well? Crammed in gaps also limited their field of fire, however, so it was certainly no perfect answer. Interestingly, I’ve been blessed to fire various Maxim guns too :) and all your arguments make sense–as do those who point out just how utterly surprised the Republic was by disciplined Grik, exploding case, and the deliberately sacrificial massing of the Grik forces against a very small part of the force farthest from the center and General Kim’s control. In other words, it was a Cluster Coitus in the extreme, that might’ve ended Republic participation right there and then had Bekiaa (and Courtney) not been there, and had Kim himself been made of less stern stuff. But back to what SHOULD have been a slaughter: I have trained gun’s crews (on said 75s and Maxim’s) until they could run them in their sleep. (for movies) Then when the director says “action!” it is amazing how many of said crews suddenly can’t function at all. Stage fright. Now, put equally well-trained people on the Plain of Guaghala, in their very first encounter with the Grik–doing utterly unexpected stuff–and it’s really probably a miracle they didn’t end up like the Brits at Isandluana.

        Reply
        1. By donald johnson on

          As Taylor admits, first time under fire is the worst type of stage fright you can have. For me it was the time I had loaded a 500 lb bomb. About 20 seconds later as we were loading the next one next to it someone in the cockpit hit the wrong button and as they had not yet installed the safety pins it dropped onto the deck. Instead of reacting as trained, everyone ran as fast as they could to get away. Fortunately no injury’s and without a fuse it can’t explode, but we did not care, we were just headed outa dodge as fast as legs could move us.

          Reply
          1. By Clifton Sutherland on

            Donald, what IS the proper training to do when 500 hundred pounds of explosives hits the deck? I would assume it is just praying at that point!

          2. By Matthieu on

            Come on, you know the army!

            Fill a form for a new one! (in triplicate)

          3. By donald j johnson on

            1) If fused them stop propeller from spinning.
            2) Check to verify no one was hiy by
            3) Place objecte such as tools under bomb to act as cbocls to keep bomb from rolling around and dammaging aircraft.
            4) Get a REAL ordinance man and report to them for further instructions.

        2. By Matthieu on

          “I was able to write that since I have, believe it or not, been blessed with the opportunity to live–RAPID–fire a pair of French 75s. :)”

          THAT is unusual. Very! Believe it or not, but my grand father trained on one of them. Funny story (or on): he was 17 yo in 1939 and lived in Lille. The remained in the area until 1944. It would be easy for me to say that he was a major figure in resistance but no. He told me that he was just carrying messages here and there as he was assistant teacher and allowed to go to different high schools. In 44, when cells activated after D-Day he got his first weapon. He didn’t know anything about weapon but I deduced that he was using a Degtyaryov. And don’t ask me how such a weapon can end in Northern France in 44.
          Well, to make things short, when allies came (his sentence was “the problem was that it was easy to shoot on trucks but some tanks came. We were thinking that they were advancing Americans but they were Germans in retreat. In such a case, you stay in the ditch and you dig) he was draft and joined officially the army. He was sent to an artillery school to become an officer (as he was mathematician). He trained a lot on the outdated 75mm as nothing else was available. At the end of the war, he was said “well, war is over, school ends in 2 weeks. If you stay you all become 1st Lt”. They all left immediately and came home as 2nd class!

          ———————————————————-

          ” Now, as to their employment, that was deliberately somewhat amateurish–as was the Republic’s entire approach to the war.”

          True. They just accumulated all potential errors: not concentrating artillery, not keeping units together, not using their range,

          “Maybe her fury and desperation at that point didn’t translate well?”

          Given that they have been given time, I was in doubt. I would have believed much more in a global and sudden grik rush. Where allies would have had only five minutes. They had some time to dig a little bit. I’ve also been surprised by the fact that they moved carts to the front: legions were trained to dig behind their own lines and to retreat behind once entrenchment are ready.

          “In other words, it was a Cluster Coitus in the extreme”

          True. Even if I had to google “Cluster Coitus” to get the right meaning as you were probably not discussing about groups of people having creative sex together at random places.

          “Then when the director says “action!” it is amazing how many of said crews suddenly can’t function at all.”

          Tyue. And I expect many of them to have done stupid errors (wrong time for fuses, jamming and so son). It would explain a lot

          Reply
          1. By donald j johnson on

            Matthieu, my wife has told me of her experiances in france between 1939 and 1945. Her parents being Jewish were in the resistance because there was no place else to go and they had hid her with a Catholic Family that was a doctor somewhere north of nice. One time German group in town decided they wanted her bedroom and they came to evict her because after all she was just a little four year-old. At the time she had scarlet fever and they were trying to rub off the sores on her face until they bled she said it hurt quite a bit but they were convinced finally that she wasn’t faking so they decided not to take the room they didn’t want to get sick. Another time she wanted to go outside and as all young children like to do she wanted to play with the soldiers and she could not understand why she shouldn’t play with the soldiers but you can understand the feelings of her godparents who are taking care of her that a little Jewish girl shouldn’t be playing with soldiers from Germany. She had a very interesting childhood to say the least. She was born in 1936. Her mother married a GI and move to the United States on New Years 1946. Recently on the internet I found the paper from the airlines about her moving to the United States with all the documentation that was needed she swears it was on New Year’s Eve and this says it was the day before New Year’s but then she was only 10 she probably lost a date somewhere coming across the Atlantic.

          2. By Matthieu on

            Plane? Very uncommon. 99.99% of “war brides” came in specific ships.
            If she was north of Nice, Germans came mid 42. So she’s born between 1938 and 40. In 46 she’s 12 to 14, no? (confused)

          3. By Donald Johnson on

            somehow her family her mother anyway blue from Portugal to the New York City she was born in 1936 and the city was called Generac where she was living a good part of the time

          4. By Donald Johnson on

            I wish there was a way of correcting mistakes flue instead of blue

          5. By Alexey Shiro on

            //He didn’t know anything about weapon but I deduced that he was using a Degtyaryov. And don’t ask me how such a weapon can end in Northern France in 44.//

            Well, this is easy; a lot of PPD’s (pistolyet-pulemet Degtyaryova – Degtyaryov’s Submashine Gun), captured by Germans in 1941-1942, were used to arm stationary division and police forces on the West. So, a number of them might very well be shipped into France – and Resistance could aquire them after.

          6. By Alexey Shiro on

            Matthieu, as far as I knew, in 1930-1940s, the training and combat procedures of French artilleris were considered excellent, because of emphasis on artillery in mid-war French doctrines. Am I right at this point?

          7. By Matthieu on

            To answer: the village is Générac and is really far from Nice (unless you say that Houston is close to Salt Lake). It’s nothing in the middle of nowhere but a little bit to the south on Nimes. In the area they produce wine, some fruits and a lot of mosquitoes (they are quite close to Camargue). As far as I know nothing happened there during the last few centuries.

            About artillery: yes, the training and the global level was more than excellent but it assumed one thing: they had time to work on the network. Basically they were the best in the world to fight a 1918 like war. At a low level, US artillery worked the same way (the manual was almost the same). At a higher level they had one weakness: there were an artillery control center in the division. It’s better and worse at the same time as when a company calls for help the call goes to the artillery direction center and not the regiment. They then use efficiently artillery but the link between each regiment and each artillery battalion is weaker. It’s much better when the unit is not moving a lot but far worse in mobile situations.

          8. By William Curry on

            Matthieu are you referring to US Army artillery in WWI or WWII?

      3. By Steve Moore on

        Agree completely, Matthieu. NK & Kim Rum Dum would probably be closer to Nazism than a lot of European fascists; look at Franco’s support of Catholic Church, or the attraction of wealthy English to fascism. Reading ‘Churchill & Orwell’ by Thomas E Ricks now, pretty interesting regarding pre-war fascism.

        Racism, in any form, is going to be part of human history for the future as well; no matter the political system (imperialists or dictators) there doesn’t seem to be be a way to stomp it out completely. Maybe the Alliance is the closest they can come, following Franklin’s advice about hanging separately or together.

        Reply
        1. By Clifton Sutherland on

          Although, I bet if the Grik ever make peace and become more Halik like, there will still be stigma for decades, if not more, from everyone they considered prey. For obvious reasons. But I can imagine a future in the Destroyerworld in the 2000s, where Grik exchange students are complaining about discrimination against their species. Most everyone else is pretty alike, but with something as alien and dangerous as the Grik, it will probably always be easy to discriminate against them. I mean, they eat people, so its not entirely unjustified, but future generations of Grik will have a lot to prove. If there are any.

          Reply
          1. By Justin on

            So long as the Grik are properly reformed, I don’t see any more hate than with the former Axis countries – the Union gets along fine with Geerki and Pokey.

            I do see plenty of racist jokes, though. “If he says he’s having friends for dinner…”

          2. By Alexey Shiro on

            Guys, neither Griks nor Lemurians are humans. The human-like extrapolations wouldn’t work with them.

    3. By Steve Moore on

      Well, Grik seem to be limited to more temperate climes, so they probably wouldn’t push north into the mountains in Northern Persia. Any human or non-human development in the ‘Fertile Crescent’ would probably have been pushed north if they were to survive, so maybe they’re in the Eastern Med and Turkey. Alexey, what about hominid developments in the Caucasus, did they come from the Rus or pushed up from Southwest Asia?

      The Czech Lemurians seem to have been able to withstand it, living in Northern India.

      Then again, we could be seeing an entirely new species, the degree to which they can be dominated by the League yet unknown.

      Reply
  3. By Lou Schirmer on

    I was looking at some of the French, German & Italian ships from the 1920s & 30s to get an idea of what the LOT may have & it struck me these were “Treaty” cruisers, battleships & DDs. Which begs the question:

    WAS there a Washington Naval Treaty? Or a later London Naval Treaty to restrict the size & power of the LOT ships? If not, our heroes may be in more serious trouble than they think.

    Reply
    1. By Alexey Shiro on

      Well, there were “Surcouf”-type submarine. Which indicate that the Washington Treaty was presented in League Origin World; otherwise there is no reason for French to build their sub exactly with the same lines.

      And, since this submarine wasn’t “Surcouf” – because “Surcouf” have a real history! – the London Treaty probably wasn’t signed. Because France initially wanted to build no less than three “Surcouf”-class subs, and only because of the London Treaty they were forced to build only one. So, in League’s Origin World there are probably Washington but no London treaty.

      Reply
      1. By Lou Schirmer on

        We can only hope so. I’d hate to see something like a Tillman BB or similar European concept show up. They may have a Richelieu, but hopefully, no Alsace or equivalent type.

        Reply
        1. By Matt on

          In context we know that Savoie, a super dreadnought was disposable enough to them for them to give it to Kurokawa. If that’s the case then it reasons they have far more capable ships around. They did take the FC and directors from Savoie so they clearly didn’t want it running around fully operational but you don’t just give up a perfectly good battleship unless you have something better.

          Reply
          1. By Alexey Shiro on

            I think, that Italian component almost certainly have “Leonardo da Vinci”, with late 1930s refit. French component… they probably have more or less heavily refitted “Normandie”-class battleships (because there aren’t much French battleships without at least some service in French Navy that wouldn’t be completely fictional…)

          2. By Justin on

            BitW states that the French brought more ships, but the Italian ones were newer and better.

            So I’m guessing a Caracciolo… or worse, a Littorio.

          3. By Lou Schirmer on

            The Italians had some good ships, but they never seemed aggressive enough against the Royal Navy in our world. Even on the occasions where they out numbered or out classed the RN ships, they didn’t press the attacks or could be driven off with aggressive countermoves.

          4. By Matt on

            Think the Germans brought any ships? Hopefully no Bismark class given that it seems Germany had a harder time in their world but maybe some destroyers or panzerschiffs?

          5. By donald j johnson on

            And of course there is the possibility or even a harder treaty then the Washington and London treaties. I believe that the Bismarck was a treaty ship but I’m not certain as the Germans did a lot under the blankets to hide what they were doing to avoid the treaty. It did surprise me that they claimed not to have any carriers because it is my feeling that they had to have something to carry the aircraft that they gave to kurokawa. Yes they were most likely carried on the boiler support ship and was on the way to Christmas Island when it was diverted to give them to kurokawa but that was not mentioned in the book so we don’t know that that’s what happened. Is possible the next book will tell us how they ended up with kurokawa and how they got there. I just wish that there was more background filled information in the books or maybe Courtney will tell us more in his 1960s history books that Taylor releases occasionally if he’s not going to tell us in the book.

          6. By Justin on

            Panzerschiffes would depend on how many Germany built in-between then and now.

            If a dozen or so, at least one would’ve been spared for the invasion – otherwise, they’ll all be in the North Sea or commerce raiding in the Atlantic and Pacific.

          7. By Lou Schirmer on

            As far as panzerschiffes go, the French contingent probably has their own version. One of the Dunkerque class with eight 13″ (330 cm) guns & a hair under 30 knots with pretty decent armor, or a variant much like them. Essentially a battlecruiser. They were built to counter Germany’s Deutschland class.

          8. By Steve Moore on

            How would lower sea levels in the Baltic, North Sea, Scapa Flow, Brest and English Channel affect Northern EUropean shipbuilding and harbors? We know there’s some change at least, and no volcanic activity in Northern Europe.

            My guess would be that Germans would contribute less in ships, but proportionately more in aircraft and vehicles, actually anything more easily transported by rail. But given the state of any civil insurrection in Germany, guess that needs to be examined more closely. With a strong British navy, Germans might want to keep their good stuff closer to home.

          9. By Matt on

            Bismark was definitely not a treaty ship. The Germans had ignored all limitations on them by the time they started rebuilding their navy. The pocket battleships also boated the treaty by a good bit and they lied about their displacements. I don’t think they ever really followed the treaties and limitations put on them. They were experimenting with tanks and training with the soviets back in the 1920’s. Something they were definitely not allowed to do. It was all done in secret and covered in lies of course. The kreigsmarine was no different. They weren’t allowed subs either but lo and behold when the war started they had a fleet of uboats.

            As for what the league has, we know they have uboats. There’s supposed to be one near zanzibar right now. Hard to say how many or how they even manage to operate them without being eaten but it there. Uboats are fairly easy to sneak into the Mediterranean and the type VII was arguably the best sub in the world at the beginning of the war. No doubt Germany’s allies would like to have a few along.

            With surface ships it depends on when the war started and when they got into the med. Could be that they sailed to Italy before hostilities began under the guise of a diplomatic cruise? That sounds like the kind of sneaky move they would pull.

          10. By donald johnson on

            // Hard to say how many or how they even manage to operate them without being eaten but it there. //

            If you think about it you will realize how easy it is for a submarine to evade large fish that just might want to eat them. they have sonar to listen with and in real emergency’s they have torpedoes to dissuade them and if they have been listening they will know the destroyer-man use sonar to drive them away.

          11. By Justin on

            Well, the Germans are part of the CES, and the CES is already at war with the Allies. Don’t bother pretending, just sail right into the Med!

            They and the French probably sent whatever was available (the rest watching the Atlantic and North Sea), explaining why the Italians have the newest ships… that said, the story likes to throw curveballs from time to time, so I’m looking at an Ersatz Hessen.

          12. By Justin on

            //they have sonar to listen with and in real emergency’s they have torpedoes to dissuade them and if they have been listening they will know the destroyer-man use sonar to drive them away.//

            That might actually work in the Union’s favour – a League sub uses active sonar to deter a mountain fish… but then gets detected by Walker’s passive sonar and ends up sunk or repelled.

  4. By Justin on

    Okay, has everybody made it to the ending? Not sure whether we can move to Phase Two of the spoiler discussion yet…

    Reply
      1. By Justin on

        Still waiting on Matthieu. Eh, screw it – he should be done by now…

        Reply
        1. By Matthieu on

          you can go on!

          I am not done but let’s go. I was in Disneyland yesterday, with my daughter. It’s really really… bad. A lot of delays, mechanical problems and so on. If you want to see real shows, go to

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_JE8b31ESU

          summary: year 320, fight between the beginning of Christianity and Romans. Think about that with “our” legions :
          Watch at 10 mn to see some budget on the curtain,
          mn 15 swordfight
          mn 23 full sized Ben-Hur race

          Reply
          1. By donald j johnson on

            Disneyland do they have one in France or did you come to the United States to visit

  5. By Steve Moore on

    Switching for a moment to politics, was thinking about Halik and Grik politics in general. Griks are an authoritative society; monarchy, regency, whatever, they follow a single leader. Esshk and the Chooser now seem to have determined that they are going to be in charge, regardless of the growth of the new CM. Halik is a general, expecting his orders to be followed.

    You’d think, therefore, that they would lean more towards fascism than democracy. Even Niwa came from a Japan that was basically a dictatorship with a emperor puppet.

    However, given the LOT’s lesser regard for non-human races, assuming that Gravois is following the party line, would the LOT give up its prejudices and welcome Grik alliances? I don’t think so, fascists usually want their own kind and just subjugate the rest. And with Halik’s growing relationship with Alden, Dalbec and Enaak, as well as his growing sense of honor, he might be open to considering some kind of limited representative council among his people. Considering the fact that even Esshk is looking over his shoulder now, that might just be possible. JMHO.

    Reply
    1. By Justin on

      Well, democracy (and fascism, and communism) are relatively modern. The Grik are still in a feudal stage; they don’t go by freedom or ideology, they go by strength, loyalty, integrity. All Halik knows is that the Allies keep their word, whereas the League probably smells dishonest.

      If somebody wants to explain democracy to Halik, he might consider an informal High Council among his generals and VERY high-ranked Hij. The current Grik have too much of a wolf pack mentality for any kind of democracy to function – and don’t even think about giving the Uul a vote.

      Reply
      1. By Steve Moore on

        Think Greeks came before feudal society, but yeah, you’re right, I think that’s about as much as you’d get out of Halik. Still, though, think if he had to make a choice, he’d lean towards Pete Alden… and throw Gravois into the cookpot.

        Reply
  6. By Matthieu on

    Not so spoilers (a single word without context)

    ————————————————————-

    When a pilot said “wet feet”… I think that it’s a little bit strange because as far as I know this is a sentence that appeared quite late (Corea or Viet Nam) and it’s only for the USN (so it’s quite complicated to explain how a 1941 US air Force guy know about)… or it’s just intended.

    ———————————————————————

    The second part which is excellent and incredibly funny for me (and probably the Russian guy in the corner) is the whole discussion about metric units… Only somebody who does not use them (or who write for people who don’t use them) can write that as those who really use the metric system also have a huge list of personal references.

    Example:
    – one centimeter is the width of one finger (and most of the time you change when you get old. For my daughter, it’s her thumb).
    – 10cm is the distance between the base of the thumb and the index (for me, with larger hands, it’s from the top on the index and the head line)
    – I don’t see why they would be confused by one meter as one yard is almost one meter. One meter is also the distance between the fingers and the shoulders on the opposite side.

    Talking about that, if one day you come in France and you still use “yards”, just say yards or the same number of meters and do NOT try to translate “yard” in French. The accurate translation is “verge” and it’s exactly three feet. The problem is that people stopped using it 200 years ago and “verge” now means only…. penis (and it’s even a polite and medical name for it). You can check:

    https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verge

    Now just imagine that an old lady from Iowa is asking for a distance in Paris? What will happen?

    Reply
    1. By Justin on

      Technically, a yard is three rulers/feet – or .91 metres – which stacks up. It also means Canada has to reach for a calculator every time there’s a distance measured in yards. Miles are the only unit that translates with only one decimal place – and don’t get me started on the goddamn fractions.

      Really, they resent the British enough to spell colour without the “U,” but they’ll keep the obsolete measurement system?

      Reply
      1. By Matthieu on

        “every time there’s a distance measured in yards”. But why measure in an outdated unit? A nautical mile at least as a sound logic (as least for a plane and a ship).

        “but they’ll keep the obsolete measurement system?”
        Technically it’s not the same as US units are not defined exactly the same way as old imperial units (according to the 1893 definition).

        I was not aware of that:
        “The North American Datum of 1983 (NAD83), which replaced the NAD27, is defined in meters. State Plane Coordinate Systems were then updated, but the National Geodetic Survey left individual states to decide which (if any) definition of the foot they would use. All State Plane Coordinate Systems are defined in meters, and 42 of the 50 states only use the metre-based State Plane Coordinate Systems. However, eight states also have State Plane Coordinate Systems defined in feet, seven of them in U.S. Survey feet and one in international feet. State legislation in the U.S. is important for determining which conversion factor from the metric datum is to be used for land surveying and real estate transactions, even though the difference (2 ppm) is hardly significant, given the precision of normal surveying measurements over short distances (usually much less than a mile). Twenty-four states have legislated that surveying measures be based on the U.S. survey foot, eight have legislated that they be based on the international foot, and eighteen have not specified which conversion factor to use.”

        Ehhhh….. It’s a mess. Technically we don’t care about units: a unit is a unit. But not using the same system in the same country is a nightmare (gasp!)

        Reply
        1. By Justin on

          Because the new Union torpedoes have an effective range of 6000 yards… 5.4k, if you don’t want to Google it. Easier for the characters, the author and most of the audience, but it can be irritating.

          Reply
          1. By Matthieu on

            I just don’t see why naval ratings would calculate the range in yards as they have been trained to measure everything in nautical miles as all instruments on the ship will measure anything with this unit in mind (for a good reason)

    2. By William Curry on

      The US Army started measuring ranges in meters in the Great War, as they picked up French Army practice. The US Army also uses angular mil to direct fire. A mil being 1 yard at 1000 yards or 1 meter at 1000 meters or 1 inch at 1000 inches, which was why the standard Gallery distance for ranges was 1000 inches as the fire control equipment was set up in Mils and that made it easy to scale at 1000 inches. (Which is 83 feet 4 inches, similar to 25 meters which is 82.04 feet.)

      Reply
  7. By Steve Moore on

    Well, got a few more prisoners to decide what to do with. If they haven’t committed any war crimes, either banish them to the hinterlands or offer them parole. Ain’t no one coming back for them, and well, there’s no Plan B for them. A POW camp on Respite sounds about right.

    Reply
    1. By Clifton Sutherland on

      Why not stick them somewhere closer, perhaps near Baalkpaan? They could be used to provide manual labor and free up some of the Lemurian population for more critical roles

      Reply
  8. By Matthieu on

    Not really a spoiler but….

    Whhen people discuss about shades of grey. Many many shades of gray and shades of shades… Can we infer any Freudian effect given when it was written?

    You asked about spoilers, I’m done to page 150.

    Reply
    1. By Justin on

      Ah, nothing to worry about then. Go ahead Matt, what did you want to say about the Macchischmitts?

      Reply
      1. By Matthieu on

        It may be exactly like a Dewoitine D.520

        Taling about spelling mistakes:
        – Raoul, not Roaul
        – Condéfération des Etats Souverains (some letters missing in the text). We can expect Courtney to forget the “des” but there is a typo on the first word.

        Reply
        1. By Alexey Shiro on

          Hm, the D.520 were more heavily armed – 20-mm AC and four 7.5-mm MG’s.

          Reply
        2. By Lou Schirmer on

          //Taling about spelling mistakes:
          – Raoul, not Roaul
          – Condéfération des Etats Souverains (some letters missing in the text).//

          Do you have a page reference for the “Condéfération des Etats Souverains” misspelling?
          I’m keeping track of them so when Taylor gets to edit the paperback, they’ll be easy to find. Thanks.

          Reply
          1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            Thanks. I appreciate you guys catching those. I WILL fix them in the paperback.

          2. By Matthieu on

            ConFéDération des Etats Souverains (some letters missing in the text).//

            my mistake also. Is there a place where we should collect them?

          3. By Lou Schirmer on

            //my mistake also. Is there a place where we should collect them?//

            I’m keeping a text file updated with the editing errors as I get them. I remember reading yours, but can’t find the page now. Here’s the list so far.

            Devil’s Due Edits

            1. Justin – USS Andamaan (sunk in BITW)
            In Recognition Silhouettes & pages 78-80, 147, 204, 205, 443 & 471 (Specs pgs.).
            2. Lou – CL horse power discrepancy(power calculated for 3 full 2 turbine plants as opposed to 3 individual turbines), pg. 37, last para
            3. James Trickey – Vanilla in Madagascar, pg. 101
            4. Lou – 260 south latitude (later 26th parallel), pg. 194 2nd para.
            5. Justin – All the holdouts were “S”killed…, pg. 223, 1st para.
            6. Alexey – Leopardo again called Leone (Esploratori) class destroyer. She should correctly be called Leone-class esploratori (destroyer). Or destroyer leader. pg. 477
            7. Matthieu – In the name of the French admiral, last page: Raoul is the correct spelling, not Rauol. pg.469
            8. Matthieu – Confédération des Etats Souverains (some letters missing in the text). pg. ?.

          4. By Matthieu on

            Another typo (well, not a typo, it’s probably the language)

            It’s not “Je suis desole” but “Je suis désolé”. It’s very funny and appropriate as it’s something that you say at funerals or when you can’t/don’t want to do something and want to be polite. Something that you’re never going to say in front of your superior officer. It should have confused him immensely and probably concluded that the officer in charge suffered from a mental breakdown.

        3. By Lou Schirmer on

          Possible mistake.

          Santa Catalina having 6 x 5.5″ guns. In previous books, she only had 4. Don’t know if she’s been refitted, or if it’s a mistake. pgs.98 & 478

          Reply
          1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            Yep, she’s got two more. The last of Amagi’s–and they’ll get a workout, too.

          2. By Lou Schirmer on

            Cool, I’ll strike that off the list!

        4. By Matt on

          Doubtful. The D520 has different armament and has nothing to do with Macchi or Messerschmitt. Ben did however say the French have their own fighter which could be a D520 but I don’t think the dates line up. It entered service in January of 1940. Maybe it went into production quicker in their world? I’d say it’s more likely they have MS406’s or something like that.

          Reply
          1. By Lou Schirmer on

            With the MacchiSchmitt running around, I doubt the French would be satisfied with the MS 406 from our world. Especially since they are the senior partner in the LOT. They may have something with the same designation, but upgraded to be a general match for the MacchiSchmitt.

  9. By Steve Moore on

    Well, that was certainly an exciting yarn. A lot more philosophical than the predecessors. Two thumbs up.

    Reply
    1. By Matt on

      Great. Does that mean I can talk about league fighters now?

      Reply
  10. By Lou Schirmer on

    Any bets on whether the Gentaa are the “Vanished Gods”?

    Reply
    1. By Matt on

      That’s a new one. It would explain why they are so keen on inventing an entirely fabricated origin story. Nobody wants to be associated with the Grik. Maybe they are a couple related species to the lemurians? They would have had to diverge a very long time ago but as far as we know the lemurians are from Madagascar so it could be a prehistorical divergence in Africa. Maybe far enough back when the island was still connected to Africa and they started to diverge after the split?

      Reply
      1. By donald j johnson on

        My guess as to the gentra is that they are from Australia. Australia is a continent that has been isolated a long time. In our reality all the strange animals generally come from Australia so that is her I would assume that any strange mammals, intelligent or otherwise would be coming from.
        It was probably a colonizing ship looking for a new place when it came across.

        Reply
        1. By Lou Schirmer on

          But there’s no Gentaa in Australia as far as we know, only Lemurians. However the Gentaa ARE close relatives of Lemurians, which leads me to go with Matt’s divergence theory. Think Neanderthals & homo sapiens.

          I’m thinking, they educated the original Grik & then since they can out breed just about anything, the Grik eventually ran them out a millennium or so ago, but couldn’t keep their level of civilization at the time.

          Reply
          1. By donald j johnson on

            I was not inferring on our time line or the destroyermen timeline just that they may have come from Australia because there are so many different animals from Australia this being more likely than other places

          2. By Justin on

            Well, everybody started out in Africa anyway. Perhaps the Human ancestor and the Lemurian answer interbred?

          3. By Lou Schirmer on

            Most of what came out of Australia, at least in our time line, are marsupials (carry & raise young in a pouch). Or really weird stuff like Platypuses. Lemurs are primates. The Gentaa appear to be primates also, so they probably share a common ancestor somewhere & primates came out of Africa originally.

      2. By Alexey Shiro on

        Hm. Frankly, my bet is that Gentaas are the descendants of some otherworld species, transferred into the Destroyermen’s world. But since you mentioned “Vanished Gods”…

        Could Gentaa’s actually be the descendants of “Builders”? I.e. super-civilization, who (presumably) created the Squall?

        Reply
        1. By William Curry on

          Genus Australopithecus instead of Genus Homo?

          Reply
        2. By Lou Schirmer on

          Too bad no one there knows about DNA, or we could find out if Gentaa & Lemurians are relatives or not.

          Reply
          1. By Alexey Shiro on

            Well, the comparative anatomical analysis would be helpful… if there are too much differences in anatomy, then the species aren’t closely related. Bradford and League’s medics probably could made such analysis (in fact, I think League already made a lot of biological researches… after all, they understood that this world is their new home, and they need to knew it).

          2. By Lou Schirmer on

            Hopefully, the LOT’s version of Josef Mengele didn’t come with the invasion force.

        3. By Clifton Sutherland on

          I imagine the Forerunners, as they are the ones who created all sorts of cosmic shenanigans, and basically set the plot in motion through their actions thousands of years ago…but that would upset the “no space aliens” clause..

          Reply
  11. By Justin on

    So that’s three who’ve read it (me, Lou, Donald – not counting Charles or Steve W) and three who haven’t (Matthieu, Alexey, Steve M).

    … Maybe we stick to non-essential tech talk spoilers and very slowly work our way up?

    Reply
        1. By Steve Moore on

          Sounds like a plan. I’ll need to read it a few times at least. No TV at camp (half the stations were en francais and I don’t get too much past pommes frites or ou est the fromage…

          Reply
          1. By Steve Moore on

            Dallas Plantation, Maine, near the convergence of the ME, NH and Quebec borders. Spend maybe half my time there, depends on the season. Rest of time I’m working in southern New England. Nice country but winters do get tedious.

          2. By donald j johnson on

            Sure glad I live in San Diego California we don’t have winter’s, I hate them. If I ever see snow here again I’m going to move further south.

          3. By donald j johnson on

            I probably should have mentioned that the last time I saw snow here where I live was in 1967 and I was out surfing with the snow coming down around me. I wish I had had a camera then it would have made an interesting picture.

        2. By matthieu on

          Covfefe, your honor. :)

          Well, i will not read it but go on!

          Reply
      1. By Logan Meyers on

        I’m caught up now too, I kind of petered out of things to discuss before this came out

        Reply
      2. By Justin on

        Okay, so that’s everybody but Steve and Matthieu, and Matthieu just got his… how about this Friday?

        Reply
        1. By Clifton Sutherland on

          I already devoured it……open range, gents!

          Reply
          1. By Justin on

            Still need Matthieu to get to the ending before we talk about the BIG ones.

          2. By Clifton Sutherland on

            like the part where the entire cast was eaten by Petey?

    1. By Matt on

      I finished it last week. Pre-ordered on Google books and had it the morning it came out. My vote is to open the flood gates when we can agree to drop the spoiler embargo. Trying to work it in by bits is liable to have someone slip up and drop big spoilers unintentionally.

      Reply
      1. By Steve Moore on

        Think I will switch to Google books for the next one. Amazon is still ‘preparing for shipment’. Feels like waiting for the significant other to get ready to go out to dinner.

        Reply
        1. By Lou Schirmer on

          Can you download the Kindle edition from Amazon where you’re at? If you’ve bought the book already, I think you get the Kindle edition with it. The App for PC is free.

          Reply
        2. By Justin on

          At least you’ve never lived in Asia – back when Storm Surge came out, I didn’t see it on the shelves until the year after!

          Reply
  12. By Lou Schirmer on

    Here’s what I have from what I & other’s have found for corrections to the second edition.

    Devil’s Due Corrections to date:

    1. USS Andamaan (sunk in BITW)
    In Recognition Silhouettes & pages 78-80, 147, 204, 205, 443 & 471 (Specs pgs.).
    2. CL horse power discrepancy, pg. 37, last para
    3. Vanilla in Madagascar, pg. 101
    4. 260 south latitude (later 26th parallel), pg. 194 2nd para.
    5. All the holdouts were “S”killed…, pg. 223, 1st para.

    Anyone have any others to submit for the next edition?

    Reply
    1. By Alexey Shiro on

      Just noticed: “Leopardo” again called “Leone” (Esploratori) class destroyer. She should correctly be called “Leone”-class esploratori (destroyer). Or destroyer leader.

      Reply
    2. By Lou Schirmer on

      I also think the Cantets aircraft need to be added to the Republic Ships & Equipment, pg.475-476.

      Reply
      1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

        They should be–in the next one. I never list new tech in the book it appears.

        Reply
        1. By Lou Schirmer on

          Charles has added some pics to the DDmen Wiki, if anyone’s interested. He has an Albatros C-1, but it looks about the same as the B-1 the Cantets are modeled after. Also has other pics of equipment from the book.

          Reply
        2. By Lou Schirmer on

          Taylor, just out of prurient curiosity, are any corrections worked into the 2nd edition hardback, or do the publishers wait for the paperback edition?

          Reply
          1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            Sadly, I won’t get my hands on it for editing purposes again until the paperback. But…IS vanilla a goofup? I don’t know what happened with Andamaan. They must’ve used my old silhouettes and changed it at the last minute.

          2. By Lou Schirmer on

            Originally from Mexico/Central America. Cortes brought it & chocolate back to Europe. It’s grown now in Madagascar & other places after a 12 year old slave learned how to hand pollinate it.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanilla

            I tried to put pages references in the corrections list to make them easier to find & fix. They must have really worked hard to “correct” the multi page Andamaan references. :)

          3. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            Didn’t have to work hard at all. Probably did a global replacement. I usually catch those (and there are a lot) but either I missed this one or they did it last minute. Either way, a bummer. As for the vanilla… Courtney seems most adamant about it, doesn’t he?

          4. By matthieu on

            Well, Courtnet obviously likes vanilla thing…. Ok, I know where the door is.

    3. By matthieu on

      In the name of the French admiral, last page: RaOUl is the correct spelling.

      It’s also funny to use this name: Raoul is old fashioned (logic) and in the 60’s it was the typical name for a guy who wanted to become the boss but failed miserably each time (coming from a movie called Les Tontons flingueurs).

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Les_Tontons_flingueurs

      Reply
    1. By Lou Schirmer on

      Check this out guys, some great art! He got “moderated” due to the multiple links, so it’s just showing up now.
      I like the “Rumors”! ;>

      Reply
      1. By Nestor on

        Oh so that’s why my post disappeared until now! About Rumors: I simply wanted to match Silva’s irreverent nature with my own. 😉

        Reply
        1. By Alexey Shiro on

          Welcome from Mother Russia, Nestor! :) Welcome to our not-particulary-large-but-quite-fun-to-be-with crew! :)

          //Oh so that’s why my post disappeared until now! About Rumors: I simply wanted to match Silva’s irreverent nature with my own. //

          I believe you have been very successful in this) Sigh… those cat-monkey gals always took the best dudes avalible… :)

          Reply
          1. By Nestor on

            Спасибо!

            Not anymore now that they got competition from them Impie gals… :)

    2. By donald johnson on

      no bossun i knew would have allowed a deck to be as ratty as the one in the first one. we woula been down there with planes and sandpaper fixing it!

      Reply
      1. By Alexey Shiro on

        Well… in first book even Chief Gray was forced to relent in face of lack of paint. :)

        Reply
      2. By Nestor on

        Haha. Give them poor fellas some slack! They just stumbled into town and Nakja-Mur won’t even spare them a can of paint.

        Reply
        1. By Alexey Shiro on

          Those greedy lemurians – they don’t even have money yet, but they already moaned and screamed about just a few (dozen) cans of paint! :)

          Clearly, Grik were much more hospitable)))

          Reply
  13. By Justin on

    Quick show of hands – should we move the spoiler block to next Tuesday, or let it expire tomorrow?

    Reply
    1. By donald j johnson on

      Keep it there’s no reason not to keep blocking it for a month or so as far as I’m concerned. Why ruin the book for new readers

      Reply
      1. By Justin on

        Because the book’s been out for a week, and that’s about the length of the BitW spoiler freeze last year. Also, because it’s roughly the amount of time this forum can collectively go without saying anything.

        Really, any newcomer will likely have finished the book before looking for the website; the spoiler block is for regulars, who’ll have finished the book by next week. So again, do said regulars want to lift the block now or next week?

        Reply
        1. By donald johnson on

          poor Alexi. all those spoilers gonna ruin the book for him cause of the slow Russian mail service. give him nothing to look forward to. gonna really ruin his day unless he stops reading all the boards. he already told us that it takes a month to arrive in moscow

          Reply
          1. By Justin on

            Yeah, Alexey’s not exactly a “new reader.” And he’s perfectly capable of objecting to spoilers himself, later today; no need to do it for him.

            This wasn’t a problem last year when we agreed “no spoilers for eight days after release,” I don’t see why it is now.

          2. By matthieu on

            I don’t have the book either as Amazon is too slow to deliver it here. To be honest this website is not designed for spoiler alerts. We should use another place (facebook for example or the internet forum).

          3. By Steve Moore on

            Jeez, give Alexey a break. He’s picked up a lot of my misteaks.

            Maybe Amazon should hire out the Moscow delivery route to Wikileaks.

          4. By Alexey Shiro on

            Not a problem, absolutely) With great thanks to mr. Anderson, who kindly mailed me an ARC. :) So I, actually, supported the “no spoiler” policy, without suffering from it)))

    2. By Lou Schirmer on

      Has everyone here got a copy, either pre-publishing or hardcover?
      If so, take it off life support & let it die.
      If not, for those who live in the boonies, speak now or forever hold your piece, or whatever that small thing is you’re holding.

      Reply
      1. By Steve Moore on

        Don’t have mine yet, it’s being ‘prepared for delivery’. All the Amazoomies must be quivering in their shorts about all those Whole Food granola bars… @#$%&*!!!!!!!!!

        Reply
        1. By Steve Moore on

          Yep. My small 20-ton jack, on sale at Harbor Tools. Got a couple of cabins to jack up level again up at camp. All the critters should have cleared out by now.

          Reply
        2. By Lou Schirmer on

          What’s yer shipping method? Pack mule over the Andes? :)

          Reply
        3. By Lou Schirmer on

          Might be quicker to get a friend buy it for you at a bookstore & run it out to you by truck.

          Reply
          1. By Lou Schirmer on

            Or download the Kindle edition from Amazon. If you’ve bought the book already, I think you get the Kindle edition with it. The App for PC is free.

          2. By Steve Moore on

            As much as I like Taylor’s books… I’m not buying two of the same one. After I’ve read DD a few times and outlined the details, I’ll donate it to local library. Trying to boost the series! I will look up the Kindle deal, though. Long trip back and forth to camp (350 miles one way) and books on CD are a welcome treat. My roommate’s not one for conversation, except for barking when she sees a Mickey D.

          3. By Justin on

            Check it again – I think if you’ve bought a physical copy, you get the ebook free.

        4. By Matt on

          I know not everybody likes them but ebooks are fantastic. I pre-ordered and my phone woke me up at midnight to tell me the book was ready. I had to control myself to have the patience to wait until lunch to start reading but the convenience is great. I’ll pick up a physical copy at some point but having the ebook the day of release with no fuss is to me worth it.

          Reply
      2. By donald johnson on

        Moscow is in the Boonies as far as mail is concerned

        Reply
        1. By Steve Moore on

          Naaah, I’ll bet Mr. Putin gets his copy of the WSJ in time for breakfast.

          Reply
          1. By donald j johnson on

            The KGB takes care of mr. Putin the rest of them have to go through the mail

  14. By donald johnson on

    I keep wondering if the Japanese destroyer Hidoiame will be completely recovered Most likely not rebuilt though that could be possible if they move a dry-dock to her. After all she does have much tech that the destroyer-men may not have since she was much newer. Her radio and sonar and turbines will most likely be better. Some of her officers and men that survived may have tech information that will help later. Given proper treatment many will likely “convert” at least as tech assistants and teachers.

    Reply
    1. By Steve Moore on

      Well, she was broken in half; a design foreign to the Americans and to their Cats; and I think the CL’s and a combination jeep carrier/seaplane tender would have more utility projecting power. Only so may resources to go around, and a light cruiser w/ 5.5″ would be a better choice, IMHO.

      As you pointed out, her sub-systems would be much newer, especially any AA fire control, even if it’s not radar.

      Reply
      1. By Matt on

        Definitely not radar. It’s safe to say that hidioame came from “our” world, our being the destorymens world which seems to be ours in the big details, and the Japanese never really appreciated radar during the war. They had it, but didn’t dedicate the R&D the Allies and Germans did and therefore never had radar assisted fire control. This proved to be a big mistake on their part. Point is hidioame at best would have radar purely for navigation and I don’t think the Japanese ever got around to putting it on anything but capital ships. Fire control and sonar will likely be qualitatively better than Walker’s but it’s hard to say how much better. FC didn’t really improve much beyond Walker’s set until we hooked radar up to it and sonar also saw it’s biggest advancements post war.

        I’m sure the fire control computer and sonar set will be salvaged and studied but beyond that Hidioame seems at most to be worth her good steel.

        Reply
          1. By Matt on

            Bah! That completely slipped my mind! Those turbines are rated for 26k HP each. Those Kampon boilers would probably be valuable too.

          2. By Justin on

            At least one of the boilers burst when Fristar pinned her – we’ll have to wait and see just how intact the rest of the machinery is.

          3. By donald johnson on

            what class was it, This class of destroyers which should be from the same design period had some GOOD turbines. Though it is probably the wrong class.

            The Kagerō class was an enlarged and improved version of the preceding Asashio class. Their crew numbered 240 officers and enlisted men. The ships measured 118.5 meters (388 ft 9 in) overall, with a beam of 10.8 meters (35 ft 5 in) and a draft of 3.76 meters (12 ft 4 in).[1] They displaced 2,065 metric tons (2,032 long tons) at standard load and 2,529 metric tons (2,489 long tons) at deep load.[2] The ships had two Kampon geared steam turbines, each driving one propeller shaft, using steam provided by three Kampon water-tube boilers. The turbines were rated at a total of 52,000 shaft horsepower (39,000 kW) for a designed speed of 35 knots (65 km/h; 40 mph). The ships had a range of 5,000 nautical miles (9,300 km; 5,800 mi) at a speed of 18 knots (33 km/h; 21 mph).[3]

        1. By Alexey Shiro on

          Not completely right… The Japanese radars were quite good, and they actually have 10 cm sets with cavity magnetrons even before Germans, but they have problems with linking them into their fire control system (which was quite old-fashioned). The 23 GO and later radars could be used in fire control, but they came only in late 1944.

          Reply
          1. By donald j johnson on

            //The Japanese radars were quite good, and they actually have 10 cm sets with cavity magnetrons even before Germans, but they have problems with linking them into their fire control system//

            Alexi, your English is usually very good but in this particular case both times you use the word have you should have used the word had.
            This should help improve your English, it’s usually better than mine and I grew up here :-) this is not meant as criticism and hopefully you won’t take it as such.

          2. By Alexey Shiro on

            Of course I wouldn’t take it, Donald, I’m actually very grateful for your help with my mistakes!)

          3. By Matt on

            You learn something new every day. Would you say lack of deployed fire control radar on the part of the Japanese was due to the difficulty in retrofitting it to existing fire control or was it more of an institutional problem with the fleet not appreciating it’s potential?

          4. By William Curry on

            The US Navy had a hard time figuring out how to fit radar fire control into the overall control scheme. One of the reasons for the development of the Combat Information Center (CIC). It would not be surprising if the IJN had similar problems.

          5. By Alexey Shiro on

            Hard to say exactly, but IMHO – their fire control system required too many manual imput to fully benefit from radars. The Japanese Navy perfectly understood the value of radar and undertook a large efforts to retrofit as many ships & aircrafts with radars as possible. Problem was, the Japan electronic industry simply wasn’t large enough for the job; the production of vacuum tubes was very limited and almost all avaliable tubes went to communication.

            The Japanese, actually, were pretty good in automatic systems. They were the only ones besides US and UK who understood the value of radio-controlled target drones for anti-aicraft training in 1930s. They actually tested several drones in 1941, but the war and lack of resources prevented them from mass-producing target drones. And later in the war, they desgined some pretty clever guided weapons – one, infrared-guided bomb “Ke-Go” was, actually, far ahead of even USA analogues!

          6. By donald johnson on

            //Problem was, the Japan electronic industry simply wasn’t large enough for the job; the production of vacuum tubes was very limited and almost all available tubes went to communication.//
            There was at one time before the war, a bunch of Japanese girls sent over here to a tube manufacturer to learn how to make tubes. and they were making very good tubes before lunch. After lunch was a totally different story. After a few weeks they determined that it was what they ate for lunch and that they needed to do more than washing of hands before going back to the assembly line. what was happening was salt was left on their hands and it had to be thoroughly washed up to the elbows so that they would not recontaminate their hands.

  15. By Lou Schirmer on

    We may have an issue on page 37 dealing with the power plant in the last paragraph. I may be reading it wrong, but from the sound of things, they’re using three Walker type turbine sets for the new CL. Rating the new DDs at 26,000 shp, each turbine would deliver 13,000 shp, times three gives us 39,000 shp, not 69,000+ shp. The speed estimate is good for the 39k shp rating at 28-30 knots. Spring Sharp does tend to over estimate horse power requirements.

    For Justin, in case you haven’t found it already, the aft 5.5″ goes on top of the aft deck house (middle of the 1st para, pg 36).

    Reply
    1. By Justin on

      Yeah, that’s me forgetting how to read – found it yesterday. Thanks, though.

      13K, that explains it. And here I was ready to refit you-know-who until she could make 28 knots…

      Reply
      1. By Lou Schirmer on

        At 69+k she’d be doing over 35 knots…that would be nice.

        Reply
        1. By Justin on

          I meant the other big ship – the one in the ending. 52K should get her 24 knots.

          Reply
    2. By donald johnson on

      the turbines on the Hidoiami were 26000 each giving 52000 for her so theoretically she is 1.41 times as fast as a 26000 total hp ship the same size

      Reply
      1. By Justin on

        Yeah, but that’s assuming that they’re using Hidoiame’s machinery and not Walker’s. If that was the case, she’d make something like 33 knots, and there’d be mention of it.

        Reply
  16. By Justin on

    The Republic needs a bit more explanation, methinks. Most character names are Asian or Lemurian… but the ship names are in Latin… and the Kaiser’s adopted the German title of his office… and yet everybody’s speaking English.

    What’s going on here? Even the most multicultural countries have at least one or two standard languages.

    Reply
    1. By donald johnson on

      They most likely adopted English for a universal language when the america arrived so as not to piss off any one particular group. if there are to many languages spoken in a country it is hard to communicate so pick the one with the least number of users. It could have been just as easily German.
      but we will really need wait for Taylor’s explanation.

      Reply
      1. By Justin on

        Singapore’s probably the closest analogy for the Republic. While mostly Chinese, there’s four official languages on every sign, the army drills and sings in Malay, and they teach Tamil in schools. But everybody speaks English, since it’s the most common.

        Ditto upper North America. All kinds of languages and cultures, but English (and French) was here first and it gets dibs.

        The Republic doesn’t really have that – logically, either Latin or Mandarin/Cantonese should be the dominant language, possibly superseded by German over the last three decades. It’s like they all showed up fifty years ago and they’re still trying to figure it out.

        Reply
  17. By James Trickey on

    I’ve been reading your latest, and enjoying as usual. However, in spite of knowing you research your books carefully, I believe I have found a mistake. On page 101 you have Courtney “all vanilla” is native to Madagascar. In fact it hails from Mexico and Central America. It was transported to the Indian Ocean by Europeans who wanted to cultivate it there, but they failed. This is, until a 12 year old slave found a way to manually pollinate it.

    Reply
    1. By donald johnson on

      according to wikapedia
      Vanilla is a flavoring derived from orchids of the genus Vanilla, primarily from the Mexican species, flat-leaved vanilla (V. planifolia). The word vanilla, derived from the diminutive of the Spanish word vaina (vaina itself meaning sheath or pod), is translated simply as “little pod”.[1] Pre-Columbian Mesoamerican people cultivated the vine of the vanilla orchid, called tlilxochitl by the Aztecs. Spanish conquistador Hernán Cortés is credited with introducing both vanilla and chocolate to Europe in the 1520s.[2]

      Initial attempts to cultivate vanilla outside Mexico and Central America proved futile because of the symbiotic relationship between the vanilla orchid and its natural pollinator, the local species of Melipona bee.[3] Pollination is required to set the fruit from which the flavoring is derived. In 1837, Belgian botanist Charles François Antoine Morren discovered this fact and pioneered a method of artificially pollinating the plant.[4] The method proved financially unworkable and was not deployed commercially.[5] In 1841, Edmond Albius, a slave who lived on the French island of Réunion in the Indian Ocean, discovered at the age of 12 that the plant could be hand-pollinated. Hand-pollination allowed global cultivation of the plant.[6]
      but still a good catch

      Reply
  18. By Allan Cameron on

    Thanks Taylor for another great instalment. Enjoyed it all, and now just have to wait another 12 months for the next one!
    Obviously no spoilers, but one thread it tied up finally, and progress on the other main threads. Big battles to come in the next book. Hints of further problems down the line. This is going to be one of those never ending series isn’t it?
    Allan

    Reply
      1. By donald j johnson on

        It will probably end when Taylor dies or get so bored with our comments that he gives up but I doubt that’ll happen

        Reply
        1. Taylor AndersonBy Taylor Anderson (Post author) on

          I never get tired of your comments and I’m not planning on croaking. That said, it WILL “end,” but . . .not immediately.

          Reply
        2. By Justin on

          Given the plot arc that wraps up in the climax (and that it took eleven books to do it), I’d say the main story will conclude some time between #20 and #25. Fingers crossed for at least one Tsushima – or at least a Jutland – in between then and now.

          And then once that’s over, the Cold War faction will arrive…

          Reply
          1. By Alexey Shiro on

            (Chanting) We! Need! Soviets! We! Need! Reds! Seriously, we already have transfers from USA, Imperial Japan, the whole bunch of european fascists of all kinds – even Imperial Germans & Chez! – but no single soviet men or ship! :)

          2. By Lou Schirmer on

            Aren’t going to get any ships from any timeline close to ours. If they do, any ships from the Northern Fleet would be trapped in ice.

            How about an AU where the Bolsheviks lost? Or from the LOT’s AU, since Germany as a poorer nation definitely won’t be invading Russia, maybe something from the Black Sea Fleet? They would be more likely to run into Halik than anyone else. THAT would be interesting.

          3. By Justin on

            Or the Pacific Fleet; if Japan’s here as normal, chances are that the Golden Horn Bay (Vladivostok) is too.

            There’s also the possibility that we might get a Tsarist arrival from the 50’s…

          4. By William Curry on

            The Soviets are too busy faking the norms from the last 5 year plan. :-)

          5. By Lou Schirmer on

            Actually a Russian Black Sea Fleet crossover (either Tsarist or Soviet) would open up information on what’s going on in the Eastern European area. Are there cold weather adapted Grik? Are they culturally different from the hordes? Lemurians? Doubtful. Humans? Maybe. What’s the weather like up there? Are the Dardanelles closed or open due to the ice age? Would a Russian ship be likely to shoot first or try to meet the natives? Soo many questions, aaiighh!

          6. By William Curry on

            Maybe the League of Tripoli is tied up with dealing with Russians/Soviets in the Black Sea threatening their eastern flank.

          7. By Justin on

            Even crazier theory – factions of rival Byzantines, Ottomans AND Tsarists who almost immediately teamed up to stop the invading League.

          8. By Steve Moore on

            Do all transits have to be human?

          9. By Alexey Shiro on

            //Aren’t going to get any ships from any timeline close to ours. If they do, any ships from the Northern Fleet would be trapped in ice.//

            The USSR have also Black Sea Fleet and Pacific Fleet, by the way.

          10. By Steve Moore on

            Time doesn’t seem to be jumped, only space, at least as it relates to ‘our’ world, and at least the AU’s that Amerika and the LOT came from. So we’d have to postulate, on the limited information given, that we can only get technology through transit that was available in that AU’s equivalent time frame. The ‘Leftenant’ and his Beaufort seems to have come from ‘our’ world, or a world so close as to have made no difference.

            That being given… they could be more, or less advanced than AU Destroyerman.

            Just mindless patter while waiting for Amagone to finish digesting Whole Foods and then MAYBE getting around to shipping me DD.

          11. By Lou Schirmer on

            //The USSR have also Black Sea Fleet and Pacific Fleet, by the way.//

            I mentioned the Black Sea Fleet, but thought the Japanese had occupied Kamchatka when they invaded China & Manchuria. A failure in research! My mistake. :(

  19. By donald j johnson on

    By Page 212 things are really starting to boil

    Reply
  20. By Justin on

    Chapter 4 refers to “USS Andamaan.”

    Sular, right? Andamaan’s supposed to be on the bottom of the Go Away Strait right now.

    Reply
  21. By Generalstarwars333 on

    Well, tomorrow I give my school computer back. I’ll try to get on here some on my home computer, but I won’t really be active much, if at all, until I start highschool in september. Until then, it’s been a hell of a time, and see you guys in september!

    Reply
  22. Taylor AndersonBy Taylor Anderson (Post author) on

    “DEVIL’S DUE” is officially on the loose!

    I’m very excited and hope you all enjoy reading it as much as I loved writing it! I’ll be getting a few copies to give away–signed, of course. Hey! How about a “Favorite Scene in the Series” contest? (Pre Devil’s Due, to avoid spoilers). Describe your choice here or on my facebook page by, say, July 4th, and three winners will be determined by how many comments agree with you!

    Reply
    1. By Steve Moore on

      Like the idea! Got bored of waiting, so ordered another book in frustration, “Cattle Kingdom: The Hidden History of the Cowboy West”. Had a good review in the WSJ (since it’s about boom-and-bust times in the Wild West), now we’ll see how long it takes to get through the state library system.

      Reply
  23. By Steve Moore on

    Well, in the remaining few hours, let’s come up with the most absolutely outrageous ‘spoilers’ we can think of. For my part, I’m going to take a flyer and surmise that Pam might end up dumping Silva and hooking up with someone a little more honorable… HALIK!

    Reply
    1. By Justin on

      Nah, he’s already in a threesome with Risa and Silva. Sorry, Pam.

      Reply
      1. By matthieu on

        don’t complian, i will maybe get it in two weeks

        Reply
  24. By Generalstarwars333 on

    Okay, so it seems at least someone has a copy of Devil’s Due . I know this question probably seems kind of selfish and everything, but I just can’t wait any longer. Who’s mentioned in the acknowledgements section for the website?

    Reply
    1. By Steve White on

      Allow me to thank Taylor for the book he sent me for the fan fiction contest. It was an advance reader copy, but I have about a month on all of you. I ain’t blowing any spoilers, however :-)

      Reply
  25. By Donald Johnson on

    Agggggggg Two more days. Going crazy waiting

    Reply
    1. By Lou Schirmer on

      Sometimes if you sniff around, places will put it out a day or two or even a week early by accident. I’ve seen it happen at Walmart, supermarket chains & even some bookstores.

      Reply
        1. By Steve Moore on

          The street I live on does not have mail delivery, although other (more populous, or perhaps just more prosperous) have it. So, every time I order from Amazon, I give both addresses, just in case they ship it by UPS. However, sometimes it confuses the lowly-paid denizens of the Postal Corps, who mark it ‘no mail receptacle’ and send it back. I’m anticipating this will happen with DD, and you will all be chattering away while I sit and steam…

          Reply
          1. By Steve Moore on

            PO box & street address. I’m beginning to think I’ll have it shipped to my BOL’s business address…

          2. By Justin on

            No problem, we’ve got an unofficial No Spoiler rule until a week after release… so, until next Tuesday.

            Here’s hoping Charles gets the memo too…

  26. By Justin on

    Devil’s Due just hit Chapters. No spoilers (one week ban?), but it looks like we ALL lost the cruiser bet.

    Might need a reprint, though. Couple of bad typos (“the Grik holdouts were finally skilled,” etc).
    And while us SpringSharp nerds thank you for the infodump, Mr. Anderson – at the cost of possibly alienating new readers, at that – it doesn’t say where the aft 5.5″ mount goes. Can’t plan the render without it.

    Reply
      1. By Justin on

        Just that one so far – no need to panic, but maybe go over that copy with a very fine-toothed comb.

        Reply
        1. By Steve Moore on

          maybe you ought to apply for a job as editor…

          Typoes, one of the manny reesons I stopped reading WEB Griffiths. That and the one-size-fits-all characters, sort of like Jack Higgins.

          Reply
          1. By Justin on

            Nyet – that was one of the two typos I’ve noticed ever.

          2. By donald j johnson on

            Typos, one of the reasons I keep playing with my computer is because I have a friend who is an author who never learned to type who doesn’t know how to edit things so even though I cannot type I know how to edit things so I spent many of my afternoons a correcting her many mistakes. Rereading and reconnecting the same mistakes Time After Time can be real frustrating. I know how Taylor feels about making them when you think there is no way you can get from here to there. I’m dyslexic and cannot touch type after having worked with computers since 1975. And believe me the mistakes that a dyslexic makes can be really weird. Well back to work editing correcting my friends mistakes hoping the book comes out soon. hers and Taylor’s and I suspect that Taylor can be just as frustrated reading past his mistakes because he doesn’t see them having made them and every time he skips over them they keep getting burned into his brain as being right so he needs somebody else to do the real checking.

        2. Taylor AndersonBy Taylor Anderson (Post author) on

          I did. Repeatedly. Trouble is, they do too . . . Look at a keyboard. You can’t accidentally replace “killed” with skilled”

          Reply
          1. By donald j johnson on

            Well I ran into an accident the other day in my word processor and it comes up and says always change this way and if you accidentally tell it to change killed to Skilled it’ll do it to all of them even if you spell it right

    1. By Donald Johnson on

      5.5 inch, what type of ship has a 5.5 inch gun so far any that I have seen would have a clone of the 5-inch from the Destroyers but a 5.5 inch.

      Reply
      1. By Lou Schirmer on

        The Japanese (& other nations) wanted a smaller gun for their light cruisers & secondaries on larger ships, because they figured their smaller statured crewmen would be able to handle the lighter shells easier than the heavier 6″ variety. So the British developed the 5.5″ for them. It has the same range & hits almost as hard as a 6″. With the smaller statured cats, this is probably an ideal gun for their CL & any future CLs if they put it into production. I imagine they’re probably concentrating on the .50 cals & 25mm weapons for now though.

        Reply
    2. By Generalstarwars333 on

      Pardon me, but could you please explain to me what you mean by “Devil’s Due just hit Chapters”? Is Chapters some sort of book website or something?

      Reply
    3. By Lou Schirmer on

      Charles Simpson’s got one, but don’t know if he wants to post it yet.

      Reply
  27. By donald johnson on

    Is something wrong with the board. 2 days and nothing new

    Reply
    1. By Steve Moore on

      We’re all studying for the multiple-choice exam on the Destroyermen. Think we’re probably all maxed out on each others’ essays…

      You know, with all the other quizzes you see on Facecrook, a ‘Destroyerman’ quiz might be quite the hoot.

      Reply
    2. By Lou Schirmer on

      Same as last year, we’re all waiting for Devil’s Due.
      About a day after it’s out things will really start hopping.
      Also half the country is bailing or shoring up levees.

      Reply
      1. By Steve Moore on

        Need to build a levee in my basement. Water table is so high, it’s shooting out the top of my well… and infiltrating the basement. Have two pumps in the event one craps out. No floods, since I’m 2000′ up, but still annoying. Due mostly to all the freaking snow this winter, my plow bill was more than my oil bill some months.

        Reply
    3. By matthieu on

      I am currently reccording videos of non linear econometric models (non linear kernel). If you want, you can come to have fun with me :)

      Reply
      1. By Lou Schirmer on

        Eco-porn with curvy models, sounds good! I’m in!

        Reply
          1. By Steve Moore on

            You can say that again. I majored in Economics; one of my classmates went to the Federal Reserve, one went to work for George Soros. A mind is a terrible thing to lose.

          2. By matthieu on

            Well, the main advantage of being a prof is that you can say ugly things to your victims. Sorry. Students. You would like it.

            Me: To get the best grade in participation, you need to to your homework blablabla
            The local bimbo: and it there any other way? (saying that in front of the whole group)
            Me: sorry, it works only for pretty ones.

            Some of my students from the USA told me that we could be far less politically correct as we expected people to be adults. It that true that in the USA people complain easily?

          3. By donald johnson on

            matthieu, If they were expected to be adults then they wouldn’t expect to get an ‘A’ for participation instead of the ‘F’ for failing that they deserve! We can’t allow that now can we :-)

          4. By Lou Schirmer on

            //It that true that in the USA people complain easily?//

            Unfortunately true. We are a pale imitation of the strong, self reliant people we used to be. And most of our young are being groomed to be a welfare/peon class to the “elite”.

          5. By matthieu on

            Donald, i need you for adjunct, you know the job!

            Well, there are also “accidents” in some classes: they can find some papers that look like 2017 exams. As if somebody forgot them on the desk before leaving. It’s just too bad for them as it will make them learn the wrong part. Life is sooooo hard.

          6. By Steve Moore on

            Used to have a professor who said, “This class is like the Titanic. There are only so many spaces in the lifeboats for passing grades. It’s your choice.” But on the other hand, he had open-book finals; his belief was that if you knew where to look in 900 pages of reading to find the information, that was the important part.

          7. By donald j johnson on

            Open book exams are fine because the engineer has to know where to look in the book and the doctor has to know where to look in the book so if looking in the book helps you pass it’s good

          8. By Donald Johnson on

            Never thought to put out a fake exam that looks right with a wrong answers. That could really raise a little hell in the end when they find out that they’ve been flamboozled. And cought doing it if they memorized the answers by number/letters and didn’t check before turning it in

          9. By Steve Moore on

            Fake exams… sounds like Jack Ryan’s Canary Trap.

        1. By donald j johnson on

          A friend of mine saw some moths on the ground but she didn’t recognize it as a pair of moths. What it was was a small male and a large female moth having sex so she posted the picture asking what it was and we’ve been joking with her about it being moth porn and her being a voyer

          Reply
          1. By Steve Moore on

            Since they weren’t praying (or preying?) mantises, it wouldn’t turn into a snuff film…

          2. By William Curry on

            He had probably just taken her to dinner in some one’s closet.

          3. By Justin on

            Actually, lady mantis only eat their mates’ heads in captivity, not in the wild.

            Sweet Morgan Freeman, biologists, give her some damn privacy, she gets hungry when she’s stressed!

      2. By Joe Thorsky on

        Taylor-Everyone
        With one day to go, Listening to “Anticipation” (mp3 by Carly Simon)
        Does help one pass the time away while anxiously awaiting on Taylor’s
        latest to be finally revealed. For me it’s either listening to soothing
        music or playing a verry cutthroat game of “Free Market” Monopoly with my
        visiting nieces and nephews. Such A “No Win”,”This for That” Hobson’s Choice
        to have to make.

        Reply
          1. By Joe Thorsky on

            Taylor-Guys

            Having an unfocused inquisitive, disrupting bunch of “Young Adults” does bring back some painful /fond memories of a wayward youth I happen to know only too well. From all their constant incessant questions and interrogatories I have also rediscovered some long ago forgotten old World War II photographs/negatives of my dad, his brothers and friends that were carefully stashed away with the collection of Vietnam photos that were taken by me and my other brother.
            -Thanks Mom!

        1. By Steve Moore on

          True, music does soothe the savage beasts, so I pulled up Windows Media player for some selections. Well, Bill Gates and company are at it again, switching the thumbnails around… James Galway has become John Lee Hooker, Glenn Miller has become Jackson Browne, and Gene Autry has become… Janis Joplin. Just wondering who I’d get if I pushed Willie Nelson… turns out to be Yo-Yo Ma.

          Reply
          1. By Joe Thorsky on

            Steve

            At present the most appropriate music for me right now would be any selection or anything by the “Animals.”

  28. By Joe Thorsky on

    Taylor-Guys
    Hope everyone had a satisfying and productive Memorial Day holiday. Such a day of sadness and sorrow, and of reflection and of remembrance to all those who have given service.

    For a goodly fun and a Jolly Roger of an entertaining read till the very last page, I would suggest and recommend Ghost (The Mothball) Fleet by P.W. Singer and August Cole at least until Taylor’s Devil’s Due is released (In 11 Days).
    It is that kind of a Novel that is a lot more science than the (non?)fictional story that it purports to be.
    As a highly resourced and researched story for anyone interested in otherworldly Wargaming-Technology-History, this work is neetly and musingly packaged and presented with an offbeat multitasking first person perspective.
    It also surprisingly provides a somewhat realistic (either-or) or (maybe yes or maybe no) sobering glimpse and a historical tease on the how’s, why’s and who’s on when the next technological globular war might be concocted and fraught, and by witched of the likely major dominant Political, Economic and Military players/powers of tomorrow today will be involved.
    The book will definitely stimulate one’s recessive/dormant creative instincts of inspiration and of critical inventiveness.

    Some notable and poignant Excerpted Citations

    “It may seem like putting lipstick on old whores in a retirement home, but you’re looking at the Navy’s Insurance Policy, small as it may now be. You know, they kept something like five hundred ships in the Ghost Fleet back during the Cold War, just in case.”…

    “The old but still flyable planes had spent the past years stored out in the dry Arizona air of Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, better known as the Boneyard, the aircraft equivalent of the Ghost Fleet. Alongside some four thousand other retired planes dating back to World War II, Roscoe’s jet had been waiting its turn to
    be harvested for scrap metal and spare parts.”….
    “Roscoe, one last thing,” Oscar called over as he watched the drones form up besides the old F-15’s. You better shoot down more bogeys than those damn robots do, or you and I are truly going to be out of the business.”….

    “USS Utah was an old World War I battleship. By the time of the first Pearl Harbor attack, it had been turned into a floating naval targeting ship for our own gunners to practice on. But when the Japanese attacked in ’41, Their pilots saw what looked from above like a real battleship. The old Utah was sunk, but not before she soaked up a ton of bombs that the enemy could have used on other, better targets. Our Utah is supposed to do the same.”….

    “In exchange for a letter of marque, sicut aliter scitur my hunting license, I will eliminate this impediment to your operations at a time of your government’s choosing.”
    “How might this work?” said Ford
    “My lawyers advise me that, as allowed under Article One, Section Eight of that fantastic old document,The United States Constitution, I will require a letter of marque in order to be registered as an official privateer,”
    Said Cavendish.”…

    Reply
  29. By Steve Moore on

    And now for something completely different… only a couple of weeks now for DD! Wonder how far down Amazon’s shipping list I am. Wondering more what Taylor’s dreamed up for artillery, anthropology and ACTION.

    Picked up my first John Scalzi read, “The Collapsing Empire”. Pretty good so far.

    Reply
    1. By Justin on

      Might’ve been a good idea to start with Old Man’s War first – a lot of the stuff in that universe is confusing when read out of order.

      If available, try Fuzzy Nation too.

      Reply
      1. By Steve Moore on

        Thanks, Justin. I was at the ‘new fiction’ section of the library and grabbed it, will go back and get the other two. Normally don’t buy books anymore, easier to store them at the library. Compressing my life so that it will fit into the retirement vehicle in a few years, after I turn 65 and become a drain on the Treasury.

        Reply
      2. By Steve Moore on

        Actually, a little disappointed. Pretty shallow characters, predictable plot and an overabundance of unnecessary copulation. Heinlein did a much better job with intersexual jousting. I’ll give the others a try, and hope they’re a little better.

        Reply
  30. By Steve Moore on

    Taylor, Alexey, et al — Found another interesting volume while going through the stacks. My uncle, who came to this country from Russia as a boy, left me a copy of “The Russian Turmoil” by General A.I Denikin. Doing some research, found the article below (which casts more than a few aspersions Denikin’s way) and think I’ll read it again. Notice that Putin agreed to have his remains brought back to Russia. Wonder if they’ll mention the Czech Legion; was reading Ken Follett’s ‘Century Trilogy’ and that was mixed in with his usual blend of semi-history and chick fic.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_Denikin

    Reply
  31. By Steve Moore on

    Putting aside planes, ships, guns and rockets for the time being, was thinking about Halik’s next steps. Heading more and more away from classical Grik (now there’s a concept) matriarchy, he may be heading more towards being a patriarchal Regent… and would this be attractive to the fascist League? He’s got a corp of Hij, not to mention his ‘growing’ warriors; would they be seen as acceptable allies, or at least neutrals? Niwa would be the ideal point man for such an approach.

    Would the League fill the gap in Halik’s development needs? He’s got the manpower to build a railway line to the Nile (a low-tech but much shorter route than around the Cape of Good Hope).

    Just idle daydreaming, but at this point, I don’t see that Halik has anywhere else to turn. He respects humans, at least General Alden, and has seen that truces or armistices have a place in nations’ development. But Alden won’t provide him what he needs… unless like Tito, Halik plays both sides against the other. Or… Halik infiltrates Zanzibar, assasinates Kurokawa & frees the hostages, and sets up Niwa as Regent of Zanzibar. Instant empire.

    Reply
    1. By Justin on

      Halik’s probably going to be left alone until the League War heats up, at which point they’re both going to want access to Persia (oil, strategic importance, etc).

      When that happens, my money’s on the Tito option. The Union is still his enemy, but Halik can trust them to be his enemy – the League reps, not so much. I can see them trying to pull a coup and getting killed… then Halik throwing in with the Union and saying “stop sending me assassins, or I’ll send some very good ones to Tripoli and won’t have to send any more.”

      Reply
      1. By donald johnson on

        remember that Saudi Arabia and north Africa are not the only places where oil is available. The league has Tripoli and that area is a large oil producing area. Ready has Borneo and if worse comes to worse he has California. Ready and the union is at present not the enemy that it was as long as Halik follows the rules and stays out of India. My feeling is that Halik will take and keep Persia and build his power base there.

        Reply
        1. By Steve Moore on

          Right, Donald, and let’s not forget the oilfields in the Black Sea. I’m betting the League also sees Arabia and the Sinai as a two-way street, and wants to make sure they can block any advances.

          Reply
        2. By Steve White on

          Oil in Libya is in the southeast, mostly. You’d want a rail line to move it out efficiently, as I assume a pipeline is beyond what the League can do.

          Reply
        3. By Steve White on

          California oil is a great point — not just for strategic depth but it’s much closer to the war in the East. Put a refinery station around Long Beach, small naval station there for protection, and the large naval station in San Diego for more protection. You could have tanker ships running oil out to New Ireland.

          Reply
          1. By Steve Moore on

            Is the Empire’s coal mined in the colonies? By process of elimination, I’d guess it was, along with iron ore. So they’ve got to have foundries, and the capability of building pipes & tanks, and railroad tracks to… ?

          2. By Justin on

            //Is the Empire’s coal mined in the colonies? By process of elimination, I’d guess it was, along with iron ore.//

            Luckily for the war effort, the Bay Area is home to the (now former) Mount Diablo Coalfield. I’d expect to see plenty of coal wagons coming up and down from Sacramento Sacrament if/when Mr. Anderson shows us California.

            //So they’ve got to have foundries, and the capability of building pipes & tanks, and railroad tracks to… ?//

            Not so luckily, the Brits crossed over sometime between George II and George III. Chances are they’re still carting coal along wagonways, or at best, with Stephenson Rockets. Likely no pipelines, given that nobody’s thought of petroluem as a fuel source until Rising Tide.

            Which means either no trains, or trains but no tank cars… so setting up oil production in SoCal is probably going to require a few expats. Are there any enterprising Cats wanting to set up a commercial airline?

          3. By donald johnson on

            // Are there any enterprising Cats wanting to set up a commercial airline?//
            The idea of an airline as a secondary use for patrol seaplanes is a beautiful idea. they would have plenty of extra eye’s to look around as they fly along. as a war is going on I could not see them forming am airline but there is a need for a patrol run between Hawaii and San Francisco or San Diego and getting the passengers to help pay for the flight and then the extra eye’s would make sense to the war board. The long range sea planes they are using to fly to the Galapagos Islands would be perfect with the addition of windows for the passengers (observers). The planes could also cary needed cargo.

          4. By Alexey Shiro on

            I’m not sure it’s worthy idea. You see, the idea of patrol planes is to cover as much area as they couldm while for passenger planes – to get somewhere as fast as possible. I.e. the area, observed by passenger plane would be insignificant.

          5. By donald johnson on

            For a passenger in a hurry yes but for a passenger willing to take a flight without rushing and willing to take the risk of being in a potential war zone and cheep to boot it could help get passengers where they need to go faster than a ship. As most of the passengers that would be going to the San Diego / San Francisco will be military before hand this will be just another dual usage of available materials.

          6. By Justin on

            The Republic/Union/Empire/NUS is mostly civilian. Assuming an ex-military passenger, “retired soldier/sailor” doesn’t exactly translate into “air observer” – definitely not on a quick, peaceful flight over friendly water.

          7. By donald johnson on

            Trained observer, no but as a pair of eye’s looking that might see something, yes. see something and point it out to a trained observer is what I was thinking. even 4 or 5 extra pairs of eye’s will be a help, trained or not. What will be looked for would be sails of any kind friendly or not. if pilot knows where s friendly is then he can help train by determining whether they can be or should have been seen. If the flight is going anyway and has the room then why not carry a passenger or two well as any possibly needed small cargo. The USA did this many times during WWII.

          8. By Justin on

            //The USA did this many times during WWII.//

            Source please?

            Even modern airlines struggle to stay profitable even on simple Point A to Point B flights, meaning Pan Lemurian’s not going to sacrifice passenger weight/space for an observer without a very good reason.

            Besides, the Allied military would probably rather use their own personnel and planes to fly in long zig-zag patterns over the Go-Away Strait/Cape Horn/Paso del Fuego where they actually might find something… rather than force civilians flying in a fast straight line in a safe zone to be on constant alert. No targets to spot on an Alexaandra-Australia or Houston-L.A. New Houston-Angel City flight.

          9. By Justin on

            The link says nothing about air observers – only that the Air Force commandeered Pam Am and TWA jets.

            “Commercial airline” in this case would be a fully private company using surplus Clippers to transport paying passengers around the Alliance, far from the front lines. No Air Force involved.

        4. By matthieu on

          Oil is really hard to find in some parts of the world and we tend to forget that many wells are not usable (with their technology) as the percentage of sulfur is far too high.

          The best fields are probably:
          – shallow
          – very easy to access. It means a river as they don’t have railways or at a place where the refinery can be really close. Don’t forget that to get a railway you also need a coal and steel industry
          – light oil
          – sweet oil…

          so the best place is probably in Malaysia!

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petroleum#Classification

          in Texas: easy to

          Reply
          1. By donald johnson on

            Rail roads can be built with simply an IRON industry. also with clad rails (wood based rails with an iron clad the rails are using less iron. Some of the very early railroads were built this way. Yes they cannot carry the load of full iron or steal rails and the speed is limited but they are much easier and faster to build on a budget where time is of importance.
            As speed is not of importance with this type construction animal draft is cheaper than steam so this also cuts down on the costs, and the roadway is almost impervious to weather. So in the end they can be cost effective without a steal industry as long as HARDWOOD is available.

          2. By Steve Moore on

            Well, who has oil and a nascent iron steel industry? Obviously, the Union at the head of the pack. Second, the Empire, since they are building steam engines, cannons and such. Third, the Grik, even though their oil industry isn’t as developed, they still have oil and good steel. Fourth, the NUS is building steam engines and rifled cannons. Fifth, the RRP built a couple of honking big iron monitors, not to mention artillery and ‘steam wagons’. And I’m sure that the League isn’t still steaming around on the one tank of gas they brought in 1939; they’ve got to have oil in North Africa, Rumania or the Black Sea.

            So, there’s a lot of capability out there for the development of rail, no matter where. Once you have I/C engines, drilling is a lot easier. The RRP and NUS are not going to wait around for decades of development once they become fully aware of what the Union (and the League, and Kurokowa can do; thy’re going to want to jump to the front of the line like the Empire is doing.

            Both the RRP and the Empire need railroads desperately if they’ve going to start moving any amount of cargo up and down each coast. Since the Cape makes maritme traffic difficult, they’re going to need something else, especially if they’re going to develop ports on the East Coast to link up with Madagascar.

          3. By Justin on

            Amerika crossed over in the middle of World War I, remember? If the Republic doesn’t have rail yet, they’ll have the ability to make it – their industrial base makes it more likely that the Union will need help from them.

            As for the Empire, their territory is mostly islands and colonies – not too many good spots for a proper railway in Hawaii. They could try San Fran to L.A., but that project is probably on the Empress’ backburner right now. Ship transport is more or less indispensable (and adequate for now).

          4. By matthieu on

            Hello all

            Well, everything is possible but it would take taime, a lot of time. To get oil (a lot of oil as ships re really eating a lot) you need:
            – iron / steel for transport, tubes, tanks…
            – a lot of coal for coke, iron / steel + transport
            – a decent refinery
            and obviously you need to maintain them.

            To get coal you need mines. For mines you need wood and workers.

            Thus my question is: which quatity of coal do you think that each country can produce? Do you think that lemurians can cope with silicosis?

          5. By Steve White on

            As our own country is proving in 2017, coal is real important even if you don’t use it in ships.

            South Africa has a lot of coal, all within reach of the Republic per the maps provided previously by Taylor:

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_in_South_Africa

            Nortonville, California had a big coal mine at one time, and it’s in the bay area:

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nortonville,_California

            Malaysia also has coal:

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mining_in_Malaysia

            The point is, you can find coal in lots of places.

          6. By Steve White on

            Lemurians will cope with silicosis (and coal miner’s pneumoconiosis) about as well as humans do 😉

          7. By William Curry on

            I wouldn’t assume that Lemurians have the same tolerance to lung disease as humans. Most non-human primates have lungs that are less robust than humans. They are often more susceptible to TB than humans, suffer from it more and a vary difficult to treat. In the early 1940’s TB was largely untreatable. I hope none of the humans who came through the various transfer don’t have active TB or measles. Either could spread rapidly through a population of non-human primates. Measles is a nasty disease in non-human primates.

      2. By Steve Moore on

        Well, just remember the last time they tried to disguise Lawrence as a human… 😉

        Reply
  32. By Joe Thorsky on

    Taylor-Guys

    As someone who’s expert, proficient and familiar with 18th-19th Century artillery
    and munitions, I’m sure you’ll delight and be amused from this excerpt and passage culled from “The Shores of Tripoli” by James L Haley
    Haley’s work is highly detail orientated and instructive as to the historical workings and operation of 19th century sailing warships in the era of Mercantilism, Trade and The Wealth of Nations. A recommended read especially for those who are unfamiliar, newly interested first time readers of your
    Destroyermen novels.

    Reference:
    Training-Live Fire Exercise pp 176-87
    Gunnery pp 338-341

    “Thank you, sir. Your little field pieces actually did work some execution on the
    city walls and allowed General Eaton through.”
    “Excellent,” said Perry. “How did your supplies last? Did you run out of ammunition?”
    “No, we had plenty. I brought back the remainder.”
    “Really? I thought surely you must have fired all of your shot. I heard that you were reduced to” -Perry could contain himself no longer and howled in laughter -“to firing your ramrods!” He doubled over and gasped for breath.”
    “Well, fine, thought Bliven. Now he would be a laughingstock of the entire fleet, thanks to his damned Greeks, who had the gall to call themselves gunners. “Did you not hear?” he answered evenly, “that ramrod skewered the governor, right up the ass.” There was nothing to do but join Perry in the laughter.” pp 356-7

    Thank the gods that your Devil’s Due publication and release is now less than a month away!

    Reply
    1. By Julian Ceres on

      The calm waves lapped at the bow of a St. Louis, Captain Grey’s St. Louis. It was his tenth deep sea patrol around Panama, Suddenly the spotter reported through the macaroni wireless “Captain, enemy ship spotted!!”

      Captain Grey barked back “Coordinates spotter!!?”

      The spotter said “Enemy ship bearing 110 East, 220 North, Within firing range Captain!”

      Captain Grey shouted through the Ship wide Macaroni ” ALL HANDS ON DECK!! HANDS TO BATTLESTATIONS!!! ALL HANDS TO BATTLE STATIONS!!”

      *Captain Grey ordered the helmsmen a hard right rudder and all engines ahead flank… … The ship turns broadside towards the presumed enemy vessel to bring its sixteen 3 inch guns to bear…*

      Reply
    2. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

      I enjoyed that book VERY much until, during the action you reference, the Marines were described as using caplock muskets . . . Very few 1795 Springfields were ever converted for military use–and not until MUCH later. I was extremely impressed with that book up to that point, and very disappointed to see such a glaring exception to the historically accurate environment he’d achieved.

      Reply
        1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

          I doin’ well. You make it sound like I never post! Ha! Actually, for reasons best blamed on Turkeys, I haven’t been able to check this but once a day since my power cord is elsewhere . . . I will retrieve it tomorrow! Come to think of it though, I haven’t seen you here much lately! Either way, good to see your voice!

          Reply
          1. By Julian Ceres on

            Did you see my roleplay post by any chance?

          2. By Julian Ceres on

            i’ve posted it in general discussions and the post states that a st.Louis protected cruiser which has just began to engage an enemy vessel.

            because of this, I was asking if you could respond to it via in character format…

            is that okay with you???

          3. Taylor AndersonBy Taylor Anderson (Post author) on

            I don’t mean to seem obtuse, but I don’t know what you mean by “via character format?”

          4. By Julian Ceres on

            in other words…

            respond to the post as if you were on that enemy ship…

            (roleplay style)

          5. Taylor AndersonBy Taylor Anderson (Post author) on

            Oh, I get it. Ahhhh…tempting as it is, I better not. I might get it too tangled up in my head with what I’m writing. And then there’s the time I’d probably spend on it instead of working on what I’m supposed to be working on!

      1. By Joe Thorsky on

        Taylor:

        Not wanting to offend anyone’s delicate Destroyermens Sentientsabilities,
        I too had some real difficulty with that cited passage in question as both
        an outlier of, and as an anomaly to, the historical theme that had otherwise
        consistantly run through Haley’s story.
        It just stood out; isolated and dangling about in search of some form of
        recognition and relevance. (A ramrod in search of a canon?).
        Your technical explanation does answers quite a lot.
        Thanks.

        Reply
        1. By Julian Ceres on

          I posted just below the top post on Joe Thorsky’s “Live Fire Exercise” post.

          The post is about a St. Louis captain who has spotted an enemy ship within his ship’s guns range….

          Reply
      2. By donald johnson on

        //Very few 1795 Springfields were ever converted for military use–and not until MUCH later.//
        maybe his marines got all the converted units at a steel price at the same time.

        Reply
        1. Taylor AndersonBy Taylor Anderson (Post author) on

          That’s part of the point. They would not have been converted yet and none would be available. The percussion ignition system itself was just becoming a glimmer in inventor’s imaginations.

          Reply
          1. By Joe Thorsky on

            Taylor:

            It always helps when there’s another pair of eyes and a second
            perspective and set of disciplines that are brought to bear on any
            subject or problem.
            Now you’ve gone and forced me to supplement and add to my own
            required readings in anticipation of Devil’s Due.
            In addition to a refresher rereading of Rising Sun, Failing Skies by Jeffery R. Cox, I’m must now add Mr. Lincoln’s High Tech War by Thomas B. Allen & Roger Macbride Allen.
            One can never learn enough!

      3. By Duke Saxon on

        This is slightly off topic, but if you haven’t read it yet, I highly recommend “Storm of Steel” by Ernst Junger. Its a simple and (mostly) impartial account/ memoir of WW1, and could give you some ideas regarding the Republic. Even if it doesn’t, it is a great read.

        Reply
  33. By Steve Moore on

    We may not have any women on the forum, but every time I type in ‘Taylor Anderson’, about a dozen pictures of this hot blonde fitness model named Taylor Anderson pops up as the first item. Just saying.

    Reply
    1. By donald johnson on

      Dang, Taylor ‘s been replaced by a blond? the books will go down hill fast :-)

      Reply
    2. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

      I’m not blonde–or female–nor am I offended in the least that a hot model pops up ahead of my ugly mug. I remain disconcerted by how many traditional male names (including Taylor) have been inflicted on girls in recent years, however.
      At the same time, there are quite a few female visitors to my facebook page, and whether they post or not, most likely this site as well.

      Reply
      1. By matthieu on

        I also noticed that! Well we just have to put on internet many pictures with the name to see what’s happening.

        I also noticed on Amazon a new book. The plot reminds me of many other books… (ring of fire, nantucket’s plot but i forgot the name of the book, lost regiment…):

        https://www.amazon.com/Emperors-Men-1-Arrival/dp/3864023726/ref=pd_sim_14_11?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=3864023726&pd_rd_r=C25DPK7XRD8FAP5QZ9NQ&pd_rd_w=TGPI5&pd_rd_wg=y48pS&psc=1&refRID=C25DPK7XRD8FAP5QZ9NQ

        I will also need a new bottle of mind bleacher as on twitter, the first tweet with “Taylor Anderson” is “damn my boobs hurts”.

        Reply
        1. By donald johnson on

          Did you look closely at the add in the link? it has DD with the other book as frequently bought together

          Reply
        2. By Lou Schirmer on

          Apparently there are nine books in the series, in German. Some reviews say the translation to English is bad, so we’ll see if any more are translated. Fascinating period of history. There was another book written about time travel to that time by L. Sprague de Camp, Lest Darkness Falls, which was pretty good. It’s a short book, written before word processors.

          Reply
          1. By Lou Schirmer on

            Another good one is The Other Time by Mack Reynolds & completed by Dean Ing after Reynolds died. It deals with the Spanish Conquistador invasion of Central America. Both books are stand alone & deal with one person finding themselves back in an awkward time.

      2. By Steve Moore on

        Well, she didn’t have a beard, so I figured it wasn’t you….

        Reply
      3. By Steve Moore on

        Actually, it would be nice to see some art featuring the female side of the Destroyerman world.

        Reply
        1. By Steve White on

          I personally would like to see some portraits of Sandra Tucker, Diania, and Karen Theimer. Pencil sketches would be fine.

          Reply
  34. By Justin on

    Once the light cruiser gets commissioned, who gets the captaincy? And does Reddy transfer his flag to her, or does he want to stay on Walker?

    Reply
    1. By Lou Schirmer on

      Any bets on Walker going down for the last time in DD? Then Reddy takes the CL. It’s still a 4-piper so in line with the spirit of the series, if not the letter.

      Reply
      1. By donald johnson on

        Walker going down for the last time will be in the last book of the series is my feeling

        Reply
  35. By Lou Schirmer on

    Anyone ever read The Lost Regiment series by William Forstchen? It’s a series similar to Taylor’s but the civil war troops get transferred to another world while aboard a military transport. I enjoyed them anyway.
    1.Rally Cry (1990)
    2.Union Forever (1991)
    3.Terrible Swift Sword (1992)
    4.Fateful Lightning (1992)
    5.Battle Hymn (1997)
    6.Never Sound Retreat (1998)
    7.A Band of Brothers (1999)
    8.Men of War (1999) conclusion
    9.Down to the Sea (2000) sort of a next generation book for another series

    Reply
    1. By Steve Moore on

      Speaking of reading material, found an interesting book at local book cellar. ‘World War I: The African Front’ by Edward Paice. Just skimmed through it for now, but looks interesting with much description of campaigning, including von Lettow-Vorbeck and the SMS Konigsberg.

      Reply
      1. By Justin on

        Thanks Steve, I’ll check it out in the library.

        As for Lost Regiment, I made it halfway through Book 5 before giving up; it got a bit formulaic as it went on.

        Reply
        1. By Alexey Shiro on

          Unfortunately, author decided not to continue the “Down to the Sea” part. So, the series as whole is left without conclusion.

          Reply
    2. By Justin on

      If anyone on the board hasn’t already, try Eric Flint’s Ring of Fire or Belisarius series. S.M. Stirling’s Nantucket trilogy is good too.

      Reply
  36. By Steve Moore on

    Just curious. If Esshk and the Chooser are selecting the best defenders for the ‘new’ Grik soldiers… are they now feeding the crazy-ass attacker babies to the Queen Mum? Or are they going to save them for one-way attacks, like the glider bombs? They have engines from the zeppelins, probably the skills to build fast, light hulls; why not suicide boats for coastal defense?

    Reply
    1. By Alexey Shiro on

      They probably use every grilling they have. Lets not forget; they lost the majority of their “warrior grins” in the Great Swarm.They need everything they could have now.e

      Reply
      1. By Steve Moore on

        Grilling? BBQ Grik? Not a very healthful way of meal prep for the growing Big Mama. 😉

        Reply
  37. By Steve Moore on

    Just as a general comment on popularity of the series… had to wait 2 1/2 months to get BITW through the state lending library cooperative. Will take notes this time so I don’t miss any pertinent points for future comments, and be scourged by the assembled experts. To forestall this problem in the future, have ordered DD, not wanting to wait for the paperback until 2018…

    Reply
  38. By Joe Thorsky on

    Alexey-Matthiew-Justin-Donald/Everyone

    It is so comforting and at sametime disturbing to know that it will not be necessary to have to make use of SETI to locate, identify and find other
    uniquely endowed life forms that are also in possession of a similarly
    warped and somewhat frightening sense of humor –
    Aka- Name/Logo for/on Sandy Warheads in Star Carrier Series
    Peanuts Character Pigpen with “Eat My Dust” caption

    More Mp3 music for all you kindred spirits to enjoy
    The Big Bang- Rock Mafia
    Teaspoon Full of Gravel- Mike Ethan Messick
    Raisin’ Hell and Slingin’ Gravel- Dallas Moore
    God Save Rock & Roll- Kid Rock

    Another Note: One of my other biggest peeves and frustrations about
    the Space Opera Genre is how economics is treated and used—-
    “Arghhh!!!!” and “Bleeach!!!”

    For many the subject is treated merely as a necessary evil and an afterthought
    It is just assumed that payment for all goods and services can be rectified-
    satisfied by Universally Accepted “Credits” [Value -Purchasing Power
    Unknown-TBD Later]

    Reply
    1. By Alexey Shiro on

      The main problem of Space Opera in therms of trade – it’s pretty much unclear, what exactly you could haul between stars to make a profit. The colonies, of course, would want a lot – but with what could they pay for metropolian-made goods? What could they trade back? Raw resources? They could be found much, much closer to the homeworld. Cheap workforce? Interstellar distances and costs would make any common good too inprofitable to move.

      Basically, the only thing that exosolar colonies could provide as a instrument of trade is unique organic resources. Unique plants, animals, their products – like, fur & skins as luxurity items, spices & fruitage & meat as prestigious food, ect., ect., ect. Somewhat limited trade, of course, but – at least in such way the colonies would be able to have some cash.

      Reply
    2. By Alexey Shiro on

      P.S. One more of my logical assumption – I think, that the interstellar colonization would generally be directed exactly by the desire to exploit unique planetary ecosystems. Because, frankly – there is very few reasons to build interstellar colonies at all. Resources? Raw materials are much simpler to obtain in our Solar System, from asteroids & moons, than to exctract them on some exoplanet, haul from planetary gravity well and then move them through interstellar distances. Population pressure? Again, it’s much simpler to build close-cycle O’Neil-type colonies near Earth, than to build colonies on exoplanets.

      So, the only REALLY unique thing, that exosolar colony could provide, is alien biosphere. And alien biosphere products – to trade back to homeworld.

      I imagine that space colonies would initially be build as biostations. Because, to explore and describe the biosphere of even one planet – you need DECADES of Earth years, and thousands of scientists. Even the Earth biosphere still capable (after 200 years of careful examination) to present undiscovered species from time to time. The biosphere of alien world… it would took probably half of a century to just make comprehensive analysis!

      So, we need thousands of personnel to work on a planet for decades. Of course, they would require support & technical personnel, and, of course – to cut costs – it would be easier to establish local production of at least food & basic good. So we would also bring the farmers, miners, workers, to support our scientific colony… and they would bring their families with them (because distances are huge)… And, well, after half of a century we have a self-sustaining colony and explored biosphere! :)

      Reply
      1. By donald johnson on

        And of course you are assuming faster than light travel. Without that it will all be one way, even the ship will be just raw materials.

        Reply
        1. By Steve Moore on

          Without FTL, any colony is going to be self-supporting (or extinct) from the get-go, so that implies that they’ll need to bring everything, which would have to be primarily technology and start-up materials. Like the Destroyermens’ surgeon’s library, or their collective memories, you make do with the raw materials you find. Or perish. I’m assuming that physics and atomic structures are the same wherever you go in the galaxy, albeit probably a few more elements.

          Reply
          1. By Joe Thorsky on

            Alexey-Donald-Matthieu
            A TERRIFIC well thought out analysis on the basics of Smith(soneon) Economics.
            Well done. Bravo!

            Someboy’s Gotta Win, Somebody’s Gotta Lose mp3-The Controllers
            Take the Money and Run mp3-Clemens Van de Ven
            Stuff They Call Money mp3-Big Bill Broonzy
            Somebody Gotta Pay mp3- Sandy Carroll
            Something For Nothing mp3-Willie Mabon
            If Trouble was Money mp3-Albert King

            A small point of contention that you may have overlooked and haven’t as yet considered, is how the nature and the handling of the inevitable boom and bust govt/business cycle might also be addressed.
            Relativity speaking; there are few successively known or effective methods within this existence of ours that could ever be used to try to force, dampen, stifle or repress/suppress all of those always present and dominant (And Pesky!)
            “MOW YOUR LAWN, MISTER?” inquisitive and competitive traits/instincts that do seem to permanently inhabit and make Humanity so uniquely inherently human and so very unpredictable and ungovernable.

          2. By Alexey Shiro on

            Steve, actually, without FTL – IMHO only generational ships would have decent chances. Latterly because they are already self-sufficient, and if something is wrong with target planet – they could either just refuel and launch to some other star, or they could just start to build space-based habitats and colonize not the planets but the system itself.

            Another point in favour of generational ships – they have living, evolving human culture onboard. I.e.they could obtain (with some delay) the scientific and cultural improvements from homeworld and implement them on their own industrial base. The generational ship would be only a few decades behind the homeworld in development. In compairson, the sleeper ship would be hopelessly behind in cultural and scientific terms when it reach its destination.

            Of course, the disadvantage of generational ships is that they are usually VERY big and slow…

          3. By donald johnson on

            My feeling is that without near sub-light capability even generation ships would be too slow. after the first generation unless 95 % are sleepers then the will to colonize will go away. the only other way would be a massive cloning machine and only a few then there will be more tech cargo that they would not have to make the tech base to build. CPU/AI brains take very small storage space and will be very hard to duplicate at destination whereas building the metal body to put them in will be easy in comparison. even a near-light ship would be better this way if it had cloning or similar capibility. This way the trip survivors would only need to raise and train the first generation of kids.

          4. By Justin on

            Excellent point, Donald. Reminds me of a Jack Campbell short story where they reached the planet, but the current generation was too used to the stability of their orderly, climate-controlled ship and deemed it “uninhabitable.”

        2. By Alexey Shiro on

          Of course. Without FTL any interstellar trade (short of some kind of unobtanium) hardly would be profitable. Well… Maybe data trade could be.

          Reply
          1. By donald johnson on

            data trade is only good if you know what to ask for and even between the earth and alpha centauri the time lag for bickering is 9 years.

      2. By Justin on

        //Again, it’s much simpler to build close-cycle O’Neil-type colonies near Earth//

        Why not Stanford Toruses/Torii? Even simpler to build.

        Reply
        1. By Alexey Shiro on

          Size and volume matter. The O’Neil design is closest to the “planetary”-like conditions.

          Reply
          1. By Justin on

            In terms of habitable area, or artificial gravity, or what? Either way, neither will ever feel like a real planet.

    3. By Steve Moore on

      “Arrgh” and “Bleccch”.. another Don Martin?MAD magazine fan?

      Reply
    1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

      What is it, Don? I couldn’t follow the link.

      Reply
      1. By donald johnson on

        It is a video and it shows a lady holding a piece of bullet proof glass in dront of her face and some gut is shooting at it.

        Reply
  39. By Joe Thorsky on

    Alexey-Matthieu

    You’re right! You’ve made some very perceptive and valid observations.

    There is a SF Book Series that does seem to try to satisfy many of your
    inciteful and perceptive criticisms of many of today’s Sf Space Opera Authors.
    There are so few actual writers of SF Space Operas today who are able to
    successfully incorporate and navigate the dynamic nature of both the social as
    well as the physical laws that govern and apply to Man and his Universe.
    I would suggest and recommend a reading of the Star Carrier Series by Ian Douglas.
    His books will definitely pique your interest and feed your imagination.
    It’s a good quick read while awaiting Taylor’s Devil’s Due.

    Star Carrier Series by Ian Douglas
    1 Earth Strike
    2 Center of Gravity
    3 Singularity
    4 Deep Space
    5 Dark Matter
    6 Deep Time
    7 Deep Mind

    Reply
    1. By matthieu on

      I read the first ones but something was definitively wrong for me: the fighter is much much better than anything else in space and all otehr ships are weak compared to it but the total number of them is low and most ships are not designed to carry them. Those book have IMHO a broken internal logic (and they are quite boring).

      I forget the worst meme ever in fantasy and in science fiction: MILITARY IS BETTER THAN POLITICIANS.

      Most of those books begin with this assumption “politics and corrupt or stupid and let things go down. At the same time a colonel/general/soldier understands the problem much better than them. Because of the crownies, the military is decisively beaten save for the courageous general who’s able to turn tables”. This is soooo weak and so déjà-vu.

      I’m waiting for a book where the general has to face complicated situations and face intelligent politicians who are actually intelligent and efficient.

      I don’t like either the underlying tone “elected politicans are always bad, military and strong men are always better, especially when not elected”… What’s funny is that most authors use the USA as an example and just don’t take into account Norway (for example). Star Trek was able to avoid that as Starfleet/Picard was much more a diplomat than anything else.

      Reply
      1. By Lou Schirmer on

        James Kirk could be quite the diplomat also. Granted, usually at the point of phasers armed & ready during the “negotiations”.

        By the way, how did the French perceive an English actor playing a Frenchman? Generally positive, negative or a little of both? Just curious.

        Reply
        1. By matthieu on

          Well, The next generation was completely unknown in France. As DS9 and all other ST shows. TNG appeared a short time on saturday afternoons (in 91?) on TV and was fast relegated to strange time slots before disappearing. So most people haven’t even heard of any ST show save for the original ones. There were reruns in the 2000-10 on cable TV (as for all ST shows).

          As for those who knew the show (me included, you don’t know but I’ve got a Lt Com uniform somewhere with Worf’s whig) we just didn’t care. It was only funny in some episodes as he was really behaving like “an englishman playing a french” (for example when he was visiting a vineyard. My cousin is really producing wine!).

          The main complain was “ok, a French asking for Tea, come on!”.

          Reply
      2. By Justin on

        It’s even worse in the case of Star Carrier – American generals are better than European/UN politicians. The Yankocentrism is unbearably annoying.

        Reply
        1. By matthieu on

          ah, yes, I forgot that. Well, that does happen but when it’s systematic it becomes so ridiculous. Most of the time their spelling of foreign names is also completely faulty.

          In most of those books (and I read a huge number of them) the big bad guy is
          1/ Russian if the book is quite old
          2/ Chinese if the book is 20 yo
          3/ European (most of the time with a german name i he’s cunning and French if he’s inept)
          4/ Arab (during the last 10 years).
          This is so lame!

          Reply
          1. By Joe Thorsky on

            Alexey-Matthieu-Justin

            The best and most appropriate response.
            “You Don’t Always Get What You Wanted mp-3- Henhouse Prowlers

            It wasn’t the American centered nature of the books, but
            the imaginative technology that was used that made the
            series noteworthy. Aka/using-employing warheads of sand
            driven at sublight velocities as a prime and preferred
            methodology to destroy opposition fleets.
            Quite the innovation!

          2. By matthieu on

            Well, he’s far from being the first one to use it. His apprach is quite dusty (or sandy) compared to Hamilton books

            If you want to read creative space opera, he’s really good (he went too far though). He’s the first ever to have been able to create true sci-fi battlescenes (with mountain morning light)

          3. By Alexey Shiro on

            Well, it seems Evil Russians became the hit (MUA-HA-HA, comrades!) again in modern western fiction… 😉

          4. By Steve Moore on

            Sand at sublight velocity sounds like an updated version of grapeshot or buck & ball!

          5. By William Curry on

            Heinlein was throwing rocks at earth in 1966 in “The Moon is a Harsh Mistress”

          6. By donald johnson on

            the energy in a single grain of sand at .999c is tremendous. will easily take out a small town.

    2. By Alexey Shiro on

      I quite enjoy the “Starcarrier” series. The author invented quite original way to explain the fighters in space by suggesting the artifical micro-blackhole drive that just can’t be used by large ships (because they – due to their size – would be MUCH more affected by tidal stresses), and played good with relativistic velocities and effects.

      Reply
      1. By Alexey Shiro on

        I could also recommend “The human reach” by John Lumpkin (VERY scientifically hard space opera!) and “The Lost Fleet” by Jack Campbell.

        Reply
      2. By donald johnson on

        my only complaint about the fighters is that if they used a black hole to accelerate and it was only 100 feet ahead of the fighter then at 30000 g’s there will be a differential in acceleration of several thousand g’s in the length of the human body. if it is 1000 feet ahead of the fighter it will still be 30 or 40 g’s in the length of the human body. i can’t give exact value’s as my math is not good enough .

        Reply
  40. By Joe Thorsky on

    Taylor-Guys

    Considering Elections and Democracies when at war.
    Taylor himself has already somewhat teased his answer to
    this weighty question when he best described in some detail
    the naval organization and practices of the NUS Americans.
    He provides a strong inference and implication that many of
    the transplanted traditional democratic institutions had continued.
    To survive, thrive and exist even under wartime circumstances and
    conditions is quite the achievement.
    There seems to be some strong (res)semblence of Constitutional
    Government with a President-Congress-Supreme Court being followed
    and practiced.

    When does Truth become so Non-Fiction?
    Fortunes and the fortunate and The War in the Pacific.

    Excerpts and Citations
    How They won the War in the Pacific: Nimitz and his Admirals
    Edwin P. Hoyt

    “When the action report of the Battle of Midway-some three inches of
    single-spaced typed paper, with diagrams and photos-was completed,
    Nimitz studied it and made some comments for the eyes of Admiral King,
    matters of gravest importance to the future of naval operations in the war.”…

    “On June 29 Nimitz decided to send Task Force 11, Task Force 18, and the
    Second Marine Division to the South Pacific, where they would report to
    Ghormley. Fletcher was in charge of the force. Cinpac’s plans section was
    ready with an estimate for an offensive in the Bismark-Solomons area.”….

    “Then Nimitz took off, in the big flying boat, accompanied by Flag Secretary
    Commander Preston Mercer and Assistant War Plans Officer Captain Lynde
    McCormick, for Alameda Air Station. Just before 0900 on June 30 the big plane
    moved down over San Francisco Bay and prepared to land on the water.
    Swooping in, she moved low, and as she landed, struck an unnoticed telegraph
    pole floating in the bay, with such force that the bottom was slashed and the
    plane nosed over. Immediately, the shocked officers in the greeting contingent
    ashore sent the launch out for rescue. Nimitz carefully picked himself up, in the
    upside- down plane, and clambered out a hatchway.”
    “I’m all right,” he shouted to Mercer, “but for God’s sake save that briefcase.”
    (‘The briefcase contained the three-inch report of the Battle of Midway.)….

    Like the unaware addicted superstitious poker player holding nothing but Aces and
    Eights (The Dead Man’s Hand) while sametime rubbing a four leaf clover hoping-praying for good luck best describes how the War in the Pacific was conducted by the United States from Pearl Harbor to Midway (Divine Intervention anyone?).
    Suppose intervention by those qu(a)(i)rky tempermental gods of yore had occurred in the affairs of men, their wars and the United States Navy on June 30, 1942.
    And if the PBY flying boat that was carrying Admiral Nimitz to his meeting with Admiral King was somehow lost with all hands being the end result.
    How would the war in the Pacific have dramatically changed and in what ways and
    why? Who would be Nimitz’s likely named successor and how would the war in the
    Pacific be conducted differently and in what manner and way (Tone-Methodology)?
    It does seem most providential that Taylor’s Devil’s Due will be released just one week after the world and we remember, commemorate honor both the Battle of Midway June 1-6 1942 and the D-day Invasion at Normandy on June 6 ,1944.
    Definitely something to think about even in these most troubled of times.

    “In August the Navy and the Marines would move against the Japanese held
    island of Guadalcanal in the first major counteroffensive of the war. It would
    begin a campaign of attrition that would become the death knell for the
    Japanese Navy.”…

    Reply
  41. By matthieu on

    Election Day….

    Here is the topic of the day: do you think that destroyermen will change significantly the way people think? Now all members of the amerikan clan should know things about elections. When are we going to get an election?

    Do you think that it will give ideas to other people asking for new things such as elections or democracy? Do you think that chiefs and kings are going to keep their power?

    Historicall kings were able to remain kings as churches were telling the people that is was right. Kings were sharing power with churches and gave them money (it eases relationships). Once you religion has been proven to be a little bit outdated, the whole idea of kingship becomes less attractive.

    Are we going to see strikes and a socialist revolution (as in 1917?). I mean the first one, the one asking for a republic, not the bolshevik one.

    Reply
    1. By Alexey Shiro on

      //When are we going to get an election?//

      Er, you mean in Destoryermen’s World? Probably not before the end of current conflict. Democracy is good, but during total war even democratical states are usually forced to implement dictatorial elements just to manage.

      Reply
      1. By matthieu on

        mmm…. No. USA and UK remained democracies during the second world war. Can you name real democratic states that became dictatorships during a war? (and obviously running the was, not becoming puppet states).

        Reply
        1. By Alexey Shiro on

          I’m not talking about becoming the dictatorship; I’m talking about implementing dictatorial elements. Like, the USA relocated the majority of their Japanese population, both countires implemented censorship and prices control.

          Reply
          1. By matthieu on

            This is not the topic here, I’m discussing about elections.

          2. By Generalstarwars333 on

            Yes, and he is saying that no, there will not likely be any elections until after the current conflict is over. Keep in mind that both the USA and UK were democracies before the war, and had been democracies for quite some time. Also, the UK kept the same leader, Winston Churchill, throughout the entire war, while the USA kept Roosevelt until he died, at which point his vice took command. Granted, Roosevelt was re-elected in 1944, but he was also re-elected in 1940, and 1936. There was very little doubt about anyone else being leader.

          3. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            There actually was an election–or “acclamation” in Baalkpan after it was discovered that Adar was a captive. And the acclamation, by representatives of the various Homes, was accomplished much like a strict republic would do so. How responsible the representatives are to their constituents remains variable however. I would expect things in the United Homes, at least, to further evolve, particularly if more prominent veterans return home and involve themselves in politics. That could be good or bad . . .

        2. By Justin on

          A) Democracy and elections are NOT one and the same. Just look at Zimbabwe.

          B) Even with fair elections, bear in mind that the people chose FDR four times, instead of the traditional two. And that the entire mess started with Germany electing the Nazis and willingly ending democracy.

          B1) Point is, democracy is a luxury. When times are hard, the people end up voting for “strong” or “proven” authoritarian leaders.

          Reply
          1. By Justin on

            In the case of the D-verse monarchs, Fets and Rasik are both dead, and Safir, Saan-Kakja and Rebecca have all proven themselves competent – given the present situation and worldview, I don’t see a revolution any time soon. One or two might make a few concessions and transition into constitutional monarchs though.

          2. By matthieu on

            Does your B1 point covers the latest US election? (gnignigniiiiiii)

          3. By Justin on

            Just in general. Putin keeps getting re-elected, and Europe’s communists and neo-Nazis are gaining in the polls.

          4. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            And absolute democracy, in which everybody votes on everything, is a chaotic, disastrous mess. Either nothing ever gets done, there is no continuity of purpose, or you get situations in which the capricious nature of the electorate can be manipulated to suit the ends of various agendas. I remind again of the Athenian Alcibiades who was democratically condemned to death during a successful military campaign (which was democratically approved)because opponents at home resented his popularity and savaged him in absentia. Understandably, under the circumstances, he defected to Sparta. This began an unfortunate tendency on his part to switch sides when it suited him, but never would’ve happened without that first betrayal. Kind of a tragic historical figure.
            Anyway, I like constitutional republics like the US’s was originally envisioned. Periodic elections for leaders and representatives. The only thing I would change would be to add term limits for senators, and require members of the house of reprehensibles to be summoned to serve–like jury duty–from a list of people who actually pay taxes. :) That would make them hesitant to blow money on stupid stuff–like how fast shrimps can run–and make them want to get a lot done fast so they can get back to their lives.

          5. By Lou Schirmer on

            Right there with Taylor. Some of these guys are so old as to be senile & others are so out of touch with reality from having their asses kissed on an hourly schedule that they live in a fantasy world. I might add one term doesn’t get you a check for the rest of your life. They have to pay social security & have a health plan just like the rest of the peasants, err citizens. The Congmess is a BIG, red, throbbing button of mine.

          6. By Lou Schirmer on

            Didn’t mean to sound so obscene there at the end.

          7. By Justin on

            Never apologize when mocking the District of Columbia.

            “It is the foreign element that commits our crimes. There is no native criminal class except Congress.”

            “…I never can think of Judas Iscariot without losing my temper. To my mind Judas Iscariot was nothing but a low, mean, premature, Congressman.”

            “If pro is the opposite of con, then the opposite of progress must be Congress.”

            – Samuel Clemens, a.k.a Mark Twain

          8. By Justin on

            Regardless, I don’t think anybody (save Baalkpan) is ready for a Constitution just yet.

            – Even the Republic is autocratic.
            – Everybody (save the Americans) regards that as “just the way it is.”
            – You can’t fight a war of annihilation in committee.
            – The queens and Kaiser are all doing a good job anyway, so why bother?

            Now if the war ends, and one of our dear momarchs bites it (sure hope not) and gets a crappy heir, it might happen. Otherwise, the status quo is working fine so far.

          9. By William Curry on

            I would add that the biggest mistake the people who wrote the US Constitution did was to have federal judges appointed for life. They should have to be reconfirmed every 12 years.

          10. By matthieu on

            Can you name a single country where communists win in the polls. I’m very curious to see (and for neo nazis too BTW).

          11. By Justin on

            Greece back in 2015. The Communist and Golden Dawn parties won over a dozen seats each for the first time; it even made the Daily Show, which is why I even know about it.

          12. By matthieu on

            You don’t seem to know how elections work… Having seats does NOT mean that you win in the polls. Just that you get a decent percentage of the global total. You seem to think that the US method is common.

            Talking about that, there is a very very common error in fantasy and SFthat Taylor has been able to avoid (each time!): authors just assume that things work like in the US. You just can’t imagine how many book I would read with
            – funny units in space (yeah, space battles with miles and yards)
            – meetings like US ones. With words like “Motion” or “I second” or a speaker in the chamber
            – a judicial system close to the US one (even in our world most countries just don’t use the same)
            – some incredible pages with “ohhh, i love you but we belong to the same command line”. On earth, out of 230 countries close to 1 care about that. 229 assume that people are adults.

            Here is where the books are good: thanks to the historical knowledge, all those traps have been avoided.

          13. By Justin on

            Okay, so that link checks out fine. Huh…

          14. By Lou Schirmer on

            One link gets by, but TWO or more links are usually moderated. Ways to get around that:
            1. Sometimes you can get away with removing the https:// part at the beginning.
            2. As someone recently did, put a space in the url somewhere. Although that can get confusing.

          15. By Alexey Shiro on

            //– funny units in space (yeah, space battles with miles and yards)//

            Well, the common distances in space warfare measured in hundreds or thousands km’s. Or, in lightseconds/lightminutes. If we have particulary long-range weaponry, we could do with lightyears…

          16. By Alexey Shiro on

            Planets could not evade) And if we have a faster-than-light weaponry – like Star Trek’s photon torpedoes with their own warp engines – we could fought on the lightyear distances in “real time” (well… actually the “time” would be so affected and relative in FTL spaceship battle, that “real time” would make no sense).

          17. By Generalstarwars333 on

            Actually, planets can evade. They’re always moving in their orbits, and the solar systems are also moving, although that is probably not as big of a factor.

          18. By matthieu on

            The “command line” is heavily related to sex-in-space.

            In many books you have the hero and somebody else who become attracted but it leads to many many many conflicts as they are both officers (most of the time) and belong to the same command line (most of the time one is above another one).

            Example: Honor Harrington, the lost fleet (dozens of times) and so on.

            It’s very funny as in most countries people just don’t care and assume that they know where limits are.

            For example I heard that in some US companies, you can’t work with your husband and/or the company can prevent that… Here any manager trying to do that would be fired on the spot by his own manager and the company would have huge problems in the court. The judge will say “ok, mind your own business. Private life includes the word private. The company can act if and only if a problem prevents them from working properly and only after”.

            Read this article :
            https://chrishernandezauthor.com/2013/07/09/working-with-the-french-army/

            you’ll love this part (it should be the same in many militaries and I can’t imagine what happens in Israel!):

            So, how might the French have felt about that picture, or about sexual harassment?

            When my team began operations, the French had a going-away party for the outgoing team. Males and females, officer and enlisted mingled over French food and wine. Europeans are really into DJing, so a French officer played music videos with a laptop and projector. Some of those videos were from huge discos in Europe where people strip and have sex on stage; in effect, the French officer was playing techno porn videos on a big screen to female soldiers. I saw this happen on more than one occasion.

            NOBODY CARED. There were no sexual harassment complaints, or threats of complaints. I never even heard of a sexual harassment incident among the French.

            When the French Marines took over, I attended weekly briefings with their battalion commander. The battalion commander opened every brief with a joke, usually a picture. One female officer was on his staff. At the beginning of one briefing, the BC showed a series of pictures of naked women painted to look like animals. All the officers in the room, including the female, laughed at each one. Then the BC told the female, “So you don’t feel left out, here’s one for you,” and showed a picture of a naked man painted like an elephant. The female laughed in appreciation. In the US Army, the BC would have been relieved.

            A French soldier in one of the line platoons had a girlfriend in Headquarters Company. His platoon shared a big tent that had been partitioned into individual cubicles. Every night he wasn’t in the field, his girlfriend stayed with him. Nobody up the chain of command said a word to him about it. As one French officer told me, “Our only rule about sex is, ‘be smart’”.

            My French friends used to gently kid me about the “puritan mentality” of American society. They were right. The French seem to have gotten past that. They expect their soldiers not just to fight, but to enjoy life’s basic pleasures while they do it.

          19. By Alexey Shiro on

            General, the movemen of planets is completely predictable. You always knew where the planet would be. So, you could launch projectile from one solar system to another, and hit the planetary target even after decades of flight (the problem may be in-flight deviation due to collision with interstellar hydrogen)

          20. By Alexey Shiro on

            matthieu , quite interesting data)))

          21. By matthieu on

            “General, the movemen of planets is completely predictable.”

            Not really… On the short term, obviously, but few people are aware of sombe subtle changes related to the gravitational effect of other planets. Orbits are quite chaotic and it’s impossible to predict exactly where a planet will be (well, for us the planet is at the explect plance, but maybe sooner or later. The change is not huge but sufficient to throw off any long term shooting).

          22. By Clifton Sutherland on

            @Matthieu, speaking on the whole command line relationships..

            Here in ROTC, its called Cadating, and is incredibly rampant, at least in my college :). Almost like they’re college students! Ideally, though, that sort of thing is prevented in actual service- the accusations of favoritism alone could destroy the morale of units, and I’m pretty sure its actually forbidden to initiate things up/down the chain of command (fraternization).

          23. By matthieu on

            Here is another thing that does not exist in other countries: “dating”.

            Here “date” does not exist: you’re in a relationship or you are not. The whole idea of “dating” and even worse “non exlusive dating” is a complete nonsense. You can be in or out but the relationshinp does exist or not (in or out the relationship, you dirty minded student!).

            “that sort of thing is prevented in actual service- the accusations of favoritism alone could destroy the morale of units”

            That’s where we don’t believe in that: you can do what you want and you suffer consequences AFTER if you’ve done something wrong. Your policy means (for me) “we assume that people are not adults and won’t be able to put limits”.

  42. By donald johnson on

    Just noted that the cover pic is very high resolution and has 1 grik bird partially vovered and one aircraft so greyed out that i hadn’t seen it previously. lots of stuff i had not noted before

    Reply
    1. By Lou Schirmer on

      Also Walker’s main battery is engaged to port, but the range finder is facing forward.
      And how DID they get those anchors to stand up like that!?

      Reply
    1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

      Hey Larry. Do you want me to post this on my facebook page for the contest? Looks great!

      Reply
      1. By Larry Schmidt on

        Yes sir! Please do so. I was unaware that you are running a contest until last night. One of my fellow modelers in our local modeling club is doing a model of the Walker in 1/240 using the old Revell Ward kit. He has a ton of photoetch and computer 3-D molded parts. He is making good progress.

        I have really enjoyed your books. I majored in History in college and I am a retired U.S. Army Field Artillery officer.

        Thank you for your wonderful stories.

        Adios, Larry.

        Reply
        1. By William Curry on

          Sic Semper Fort Sill. You probably know what an angular mil is!

          Reply
          1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            Of course, and I still used the “finger method” to estimate range–until I got a pretty good laser rangefinder. Of course, all my cannon sights are in degrees . . .

        2. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

          Yikes! I just got this. Been having computer issues! Please send images of this (great looking) Dave and the P-40 to my e-mail
          [email protected]

          and I’ll post them. Thanks!

          Reply
        3. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

          Thank YOU Larry! You should come out and play cannons with us sometime. (We’re having an “open” shoot at Ft. Hood next month). We competed in the USFAA shoot at Ft. Sill for nearly 30 years–until it finally fell apart after Colonel Kieran McMullen (now also an author–go figure–) moved away. Anyway, live fire has always been our “thing.” I currently have a 6pdr and 3″ Ordnance rifle. We’ll be shooting the rifle gun next month.

          Reply
          1. By Larry Schmidt on

            6 email photos sent. 3 each of the P-40E and the Nakajima E8N1 “Dave”.

            Hoping that you received them.

            P.S. My Curtiss Sparrowhawk is not a part of your “universe”, but your stories inspired my “What-if?” build, where in my “Whifferverse” the Akron and her Sparrowhawks were patrolling the West Coast after Pearl Harbor looking for the Imperial Japanese Navy. Adios, Larry.

            http://i1187.photobucket.com/albums/z390/CSMO/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_5011_zpspomk0ozn.jpg

          2. By William Curry on

            When I was in the SCA my persona was 14th century Swiss and used Axe and shield or a hand-and-half bastard sword.

          3. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            That’s so cute, Matthieu! (Sorry. Nobody likes to have their cannon called “cute”–but some are). I built my daughter a little 2pdr on a naval truck when she was little. It takes off like a giant armadillo when you set it off. I used to have a pair of 12pdr mountain howitzers and they were “cute” too–but you could put ’em in the back of a pickup. The biggest (in sheer size) gun I had was a nice French 8pdr on a split trail, but I sold it to a museum (after we kind of wore it out). The proceeds paid for a brand new 6pdr tube to replace THAT one we wore out too. The 6pdr and 3″ rifle aren’t “cute,” they’re wicked–in a very sexy way.

            Got the pics, Larry. and I’ll post ’em on my facebook (Goat’s ass) Long story. Ask Matthieu.

            I never did SCA, Bill. I did pre-1840 fur trade stuff forever, Civil War, Tex Rev, Mexican War, Rev War–pretty much 18th and 19th Century stuff. I was GOING to do SCV and came up with a cool Scottish merc rig, including building a Scottish wheellock rifle with a chiseled muzzle, proper claymore and dirk–the works–but they said “no guns”……. Really? Not even a Scottish wheellock?

          4. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            And I DO hope to make it to Europe this year or next, Matthieu. When I get to France, I hope you can get loose to show me some of the sights.

          5. By matthieu on

            Og course, there are many things to do in the area (as long as you can stand my broken English accent). BTW the French accent of John Oliver is hilarious.

            Right now we don’t use a lot of artillery. The police is not really fan of seeing people transporting buckets of black powder. Tt$hey mainly fear that people are going to steal it. (Thanks to gun control laws something “funny” happens: terrorists are almost unable to get guns and ammunition anywhere. Most o the time they are spotted when they try to purchase/steal weapons and many attacks are avoided that way. To be honest something else does happen: “common” criminals (thiefs and so on) have a very informal aggreement with the police. It’s a little bit like “we don’t sell weapons to potential terrorists and we even spot them for you and you won’t forget that if we get caught one day”. Another thing that people keep in mind is that “if you help terrorists, you can suffer from a very unfortunate accident. We can misunderstand you when you try to surrender”).

          6. By William Curry on

            Gun Control doesn’t seem to be working all that well in France at the moment.

          7. By matthieu on

            It works really well. You may not be aware of such a fact but during the last few months gun control avoided many many casualties. In Nice the guy was not able to get weapons (and it would have been worse). In Paris 3 attacks failed for the same reason (basically people attack with knives as they can’t get their hand on any gun. Most of the time one policeman is wounded and the guy shot down).
            Gun control is efficient if it’s really strict, meaning that it’s really close to impossible for the bad guys to get weapons. In your case (USA) it would probably fail as the total number of available weapons is far too high.

          8. By donald johnson on

            You take away their guns then they just find something just as deadly and easier to obtain and use.

          9. By matthieu on

            IMHO a knife is far less dangerous than an automatic assault gun…

          10. By Alexey Shiro on

            There is no universal solution. With gun control, it is harder for the malefactor to obtain weapon, but it’s also harder for the victims to defend themselves.

    2. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

      By the way, the reason I need you to send the images to my e-mail is because I can’t download them off that site to post them. (Again, [email protected]

      Reply
      1. By Larry Schmidt on

        Hi, Mr. Anderson.

        I heard that you are having a model contest. Can you tell me where I can find out about it?

        Adios, Larry.

        Reply
        1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

          I posted it on my facebook page and I think it was referenced on the D-men Fan Association page. Submissions here are welcome, and I’ll post ’em on facebook. Lots more people see that every day, I think.

          Reply
  43. By Joe Thorsky on

    Taylor-Guys

    An Apocalypse Now -2017 revised mp-3 Playlist
    Puddy Tat -Harmonica Blues Bank/Mark Maxwell
    Victim of Life’s Circumstances-Delbert McClinton
    Got to Reap What You Sow-Jazz Gillman
    Raining on My Heart-Lazy Lester
    Empty Promises-Michael Burks
    Feel So Bad-Otis Rush
    Fight-Luther Allison
    Find ‘Em,Fool ‘Em & Forget ‘Em-Larry Davis
    Flirting with Disaster-Bruce Willis
    Gone to Hell-John Mooney
    Gotcha-Pee Wee Ellis
    Hard, But Its Fair-Buddy Guy
    Dustoff-Jim Somers
    Hurts So Good-John Mellencamp
    I Ain’t Gonna Be Worried No More-Sleepy John Estes
    I’ll Go My Way-Bob Gaddy
    I’ll Take the Blame-Jimmy McCracklin
    The Good Ship Delirious-Mick Hanly
    Uncle Nobby’s Steamboat-Wolfe Tones
    Admiral William Brown-Wolfe Tones

    More Blasts from the Historical Past or
    Gunboat Diplomacy Part-Deja Vu *
    * He who has the Gunboats fashions and controls the ending Diplomacy

    Timely and Relevant-Cited Excerpts
    The Wit and Wisdom of Abraham Lincoln
    Anthony Gross
    Barnes & Noble Books,New York 1992

    “In 1862 the people of New York City feared bombardment by Confederate cruisers,
    and public meetings were held to consider the gravity of the situation. Finally a
    delegation of fifty gentlemen, representing hundreds of millions of dollars, was
    selected to go to Washington and persuade the President to detail a gunboat to
    protect their property. David Davis, while on the Supreme Bench went to the
    White House and presented them to the President.”
    Mr. Lincoln heard them attentively, much impressed, apparently, by the
    “hundreds of millions.” When they had concluded, he said:
    “Gentlemen, I am, by the Constitution, Commander-in-Chief of the Army and
    the Navy of the United States, and as a matter of law I can order anything to be done that is practicable to be done. I am in command of the gunboats and ships of war; but, as a matter of fact, I do not know exactly where they are. I presume they are actively engaged, and it is therefore impossible for me to furnish you with a gunboat.”
    “The credit of the Government is at a very low ebb, greenbacks are not worth more
    than forty or fifty cents on the dollar; and in this condition of things, if I were worth half as much as you gentlemen are represented to be, and as badly frightened as you seem to be, I would build a gunboat and give it to the Government (pro bono).”
    “Judge Davis said he never saw one hundred millions sink to such insignificant
    proportions as it did when the delegation left the White House.”

    ” A gentleman asked Lincoln to give him a pass through the Federal Lines in order
    to visit Richmond (Capital of the Confederacy).”I should be very happy to oblige you,”said the President, “if my passes were respected; but the fact is, within the past two years I have given passes to Richmond to two hundred and fifty thousand men, and not one has got there yet.”

    “Referring to General McClellan’s inactivity, President Lincoln once expressed
    his impatience by saying , “McClellan is a pleasant and scholarly gentleman;
    he is an admirable engineer, but he seems to have a special talent for Stationary
    Engineering.”

    “When General Fisk first became a colonel he organized his regiment with the
    understanding that he was to do all the swearing of the regiment. One of the teamsters, however, as the roads were not always of the best, had difficulty in controlling his temper and his tongue. Once, under unusual difficulties, through a series of mud-pools a little worse than usual, unable to control himself any longer, this teamster burst forth into a volley (Firestorm) of energetic oaths.”
    “The Colonel took him to account and reminded him that he had agreed to let him (the Colonel) do all the swearing of the regiment.”
    “Yes, I did, Colonel,” he replied. “But the fact was, the swearing had to be done then (and there!) or not at all, and you weren’t there to do it.”

    Good Lord and Gosh Almighty!
    There’s no doubt about it!
    If this isn’t one of the finest examples of an obvious classic case of self-described Self-Defense and Sanitary Engineering that I have ever affectionately read about or come across.

    Timely Words of Wisdom and Fatherly Advice

    “The nation, which indulges towards another and habitual hatred, or an habitual fondness, is in some degree a slave. It is a slave to its animosity or to its affection, either of which is sufficient to lead it astray from its duty and its interest”….

    “The nation, prompted by ill-will and resentment, sometimes impels to war the Government, contrary to the best calculations of policy”….

    “Against the insidious wiles of foreign influence (I conjure you to believe me, fellow citizens),the jealousy of a free people is one of the most baneful foes of republican government. With me a predominant motive has been to endeavor to gain time to our country to settle and mature its yet recent institutions, and to progress without interruption to that degree of strength and consistency, which is necessary to give it, humanely speaking, the command of its own fortunes.”…
    Washington ‘s Farewell Address- September 17, 1796

    Reply
  44. By David DuBois on

    Hiss of static boatswain’s pipe, ‘Do-weee-oo.’ “Now hear this, now hear this. There are no entries for the short story Fan Fiction contest. Write a short (10 pages single spaced or under) about the transfer of a human society to the Destroyermen’s world. Said transfer either dies out, or is small in a place far from the ocean where contact is unlikely with the destroyermen. Or you may add more back story to a character who has died in the series. The Winner will be told to contact Taylor to receive his/her Advanced Reader’s Copy of ‘Devil’s Due’ with his address and any inscription you wish. Note for legal reasons Taylor cannot read fan fiction do not submit any directly to him, nor will he read the winning story.

    Entries will be posted on DFA D-men Fan Fiction Group mark entries with the words Contest Entry prior to the title. Link to the Group page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1076206972451470/

    Closing date for submissions May 1, 2017. Winner decided by leadership group of judges.

    After asking Taylor Anderson to have a Fan Fiction Contest and figuring a way to have one, providing a Signed Advanced Reader’s Copy for a prize, don’t make us have to tell him no one entered. That is all.” Hiss of static.

    If you are not on Facebook send story via E-Mail to Charles Simpson @ [email protected] and if you are willing you can add your e-mail address. I know several people on Taylor’s Website who are not on Facebook.

    Reply
    1. By Lou Schirmer on

      Nice! Time to get to work, all you literary types! Tick, tock.

      How does David rate an official seal?
      Can we design one?
      Can we customize our monsters?
      So many questions! Aaaiighhh!

      Reply
        1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

          That is pretty cool. How’d you do that, David?

          Reply
          1. By David DuBois on

            Possibly because I put the URL to my publisher’s page when I post? I have written a non-fiction book about the Asiatic Fleet and the first 4 months of WW2, and the book is available for pre-order now from my publisher or it will be on Amazon starting May 1. There are a number of first hand accounts of different ships in the Asiatic Fleet, but mine concentrates on the bigger picture as to why the fleet was ordered to do what it was ordered to do, and that the damage done to the Japanese was greater than the early reports, written by people who were not there. There was a lot of information about MacArthur trying to blame shift all of his mistakes to Admiral Hart of the Asiatic Fleet.

            That’s the only reason I can think of for the shield instead of a monster.

          2. By donald johnson on

            Put in a special chapter in it about the Destroyermen :-) and see who really notices

          3. By David DuBois on

            There’s lots about the Destroyermen, just the real ones, and the circumstances that put the fictional Destroyermen into play. Brave men that gave their lives to help save others is not just a fictional occurrence, it was a common occurrence in the Asiatic Fleet. One example:

            USS Houston’s Chaplain, Commander George Rentz, at 59 was the oldest man onboard Houston. Rentz carried a thermos full of cold water and pockets full of candy bars that he passed out to the men, making Rentz a source of comfort during Houston’s battles. Rentz went into the water with the rest of Houston’s crew when the Houston sank, clinging to a float from one of the Seagull seaplanes with other survivors. Several times during the night, as the float they were clinging to sank lower and lower into the water, Rentz tried to swim away to keep it from sinking. Each time, a sailor ignored Rentz’s wishes and pulled him back. Rentz was holding a young sailor named Walter Beeson who was wounded and without a life jacket. Rentz gave his life jacket to Beeson, said a brief prayer for the men on the float, kicked away from the float and was gone. Beeson survived as a POW and was liberated in 1945. Rentz was posthumously awarded the Navy Cross, the only Chaplain so honored during World War II. USS Rentz (FFG-46) was named in his honor in 1984 and still serves with the United States Navy today.

          4. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            I’ve heard about Rentz, David–and as you say, there are many, many more such tales of true heroism and sacrifice. These are the things that inspired me to write the series in the first place, just as I imagine they helped inspire you to write your book. I’m looking forward to reading it.

  45. By Joe Thorsky on

    Taylor-Guys

    Precurs(e)r or premonition Taylor’s website does sure presage
    current events and topics in this real world of ours!
    News before it happens?!
    All because of your input-support

    Only 57 Days till DD is released to the public.

    Reply
  46. By Justin on

    Just a few possible iterations of the Republic’s flag (if any):

    i650.photobucket. com/albums/uu222/NoYourOtherLeft/DM/RepublicFlag1_zpsazrcsxdw.png
    i650.photobucket. com/albums/uu222/NoYourOtherLeft/DM/RepublicFlag2_zps0pbocpmq.png
    i650.photobucket. com/albums/uu222/NoYourOtherLeft/DM/RepublicFlag3_zpsntgdjyfy.png
    i650.photobucket. com/albums/uu222/NoYourOtherLeft/DM/RepublicFlag4_zps1xg8jlpp.png

    Yellow for the Egyptians and Chinese (in the shape of a Ming naval pennant), red for the Romans and Phoenicians, black – and white? – for the Germans. Laurel wreath and eagle because the Romans and Germans are the biggest influences on the modern Republic. Thoughts?

    Reply
      1. By Justin on

        Okay, seriously? ONE link gets you marked as spam too?!?

        (sigh)

        See, in order to bypass certain spam filters, you sometimes need to break up a link. Paste it into the address bar, delete the space between the “.” and the “com,” and hit enter. Works just fine for me.

        Reply
        1. By Steve White on

          I didn’t mark you as spam. I finally figured out the space thing. Took a while.

          Reply
          1. By Justin on

            Yeah, sorry, that was me being irritated at the site.

            I know the space thing doesn’t always come naturally, so I tried to help by posting a “how-to” comment… with a link (to THIS page, no less). As you can guess, that was a no-go too, hence this slightly angrier post.

          2. Taylor AndersonBy Taylor Anderson (Post author) on

            Sorry for the extra spam filter–which I had to add and pay extra for. The reason is that I literally spent more time deleting spam (hundreds a day) than I got to spend reading and replying to genuine posts.

          3. By Justin on

            No need to apologize, spam’s a pain in the nuts. I blame the programmers.

            So… thoughts on the flag designs, anybody?

          4. By Generalstarwars333 on

            There’s the design I came up with that is an American flag with the Prussian flag replacing the stars, but I’d be incredibly shocked if that was the real one.

  47. By Clifton Sutherland on

    So guys,

    It looks like America just launched about 50 cruise missiles at Syrian Government airbases in response to the earlier chemical attack. They were fired by a mix of destroyers and cruisers.

    Let’s hope that, whatever happens, it goes swiftly, and not too many more have to die.

    Reply
    1. By matthieu on

      Even if it’s not the place for that… This was completely useless. It’s just a small political move (Russians were warned and they warned Syrians) to make a point and to pretend that something is being done. This was an expensive move but had no practical effect. Artillery (M109 and Caesar is much better for FFE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvqMzqfmZIw )

      Reply
      1. By Alexey Shiro on

        Well, the airbase was trashed really good – most of hardened shelters damaged or destroyed, repair facilities devastated, and refueling system completely out of comission. So, as demonstration act this went pretty good.

        Reply

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