March 17

General Discussions

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Devil's Due

Copyright 2017. All rights reserved.

Posted March 17, 2016 by Taylor Anderson in category "Uncategorized


  1. By Steve Moore on

    Well, we’re kind of beating some of these outlandish subjects to death. Might as well stick closer to what Taylor has to work up, like battle strategy for the RRP or the Zambezi invasion, or fleshing out some of the missing details in the NUS. Could a Clipper reach Texas from San Diego, non-stop. to deliver another radio for Fred & Kari. Could the wreck of the Spanish LOT destroyer be salvaged, using hulks as ‘camels’ to lift her off the bottom? How about building some armored cars for the Colonials in CA to explore further into the dessert, or building some water-well drilling rigs? Most of all, a shipload of Fort Worth spudders on its way to the East for use first in the Colonies, then in Mexico and Texas.

    Speaking of that, why not a detachment of former IJN to the Colonies? There’d be no animosities on the Colonial side, since they’re used to Impie girls, and eventually work their way to the NUS? There’s more demand for their engineering skills there, and the fact that there are WOMEN there (where did the human women in Japan come from anyways?) And not to sound like a one-worlder or anything, but the more diverse the new world is made, the less conflict down the road.

    1. By Matt on

      Good points. I think we can nerd out on the tech a little too much at times. I am definitely guilty of this. I think ties to the NUS will depend a lot on their reaction to the Union and everything going on abroad. We aren’t exactly sure what they will do or be willing to do just yet. The only real diplomatic interactions we’ve had with them up to this point are through the military. It’s obvious they want to defeat the Doms for several reasons but we really haven’t seen what their politics are like. We know it’s broadly based around the American system but just like the Impies modified the British system to their needs the NUS likely did the same. We can hope that the politicians agree with the military but we don’t know that yet. It’s entirely possible that our heroes get stonewalled talking to the civilian authorities. I don’t think that is likely. It certainly looks like the NUS has been fighting a cold war with the Doms all along but that doesn’t mean they are prepared for a major conflict or even have the will to do so.

      The Italian Destroyer will certainly be worth a lot. Hopefully efforts to salvage her will be in earnest. The NUS will definitely want a look at the tech and with the Union’s help be able to make sense of it quickly. She no doubt also has tons of intelligence onboard. Code books for one. If they can get those out of the safe then that will go a long way to evening the field with the League. That modern destroyer also is going to have a modern power plant. I don’t know the differences in Italian turbine design but she does have yarrow boilers so that’s nothing new.

    2. By Justin on

      //Could the wreck of the Spanish LOT destroyer be salvaged, using hulks as ‘camels’ to lift her off the bottom?//

      I’d say don’t bother with the Spanish DD; eyeballing the Alsedo-class’ specs (basically a not-as-good Wickes), it seems more productive to just send the NUS a couple of Walkers.

      //Speaking of that, why not a detachment of former IJN to the Colonies?//

      Aaand I’m pretty sure most of the Japanese want to be left alone right now. Remember that Shinya and Miyata’s non-isolationist/xeno-agnostic attitudes are the minority.

      Maybe they could convince some of the technicians – give an engineer an interesting enough challenge, and you could probably convince him/her to work for the Dommies.

      //And not to sound like a one-worlder or anything, but the more diverse the new world is made, the less conflict down the road.//

      In the spirit of the series’ “enemy mine” theme, it’d be interesting to see if the NUS has incorporated freedmen, Natives and/or Santa Anna’s Mexicans into the nation. For all we know, the current president is Geronimo!

  2. By Joe Thorsky on


    Sincere condolences!
    Sorry to hear?-read that you’ve taken The Pledge
    A k-ration(ALE) drink you might want to immerse
    yourself into for the holidays.
    3 packages of Wyler lemonade (instant) mix
    10-12 squeezed lemons-w pulp included
    1-2 tablespoons sugar or to taste
    1 pint water
    ice cubes not the rapper
    prechilled refrigerated drinking glasses/picture
    verily refreshing and tangy
    Will eliminate after (dissed) taste from Carling’s black label!

    Also Recommend Sherbert (Orange) ice cream with Regular 7-up.
    Xmas Cheers

      1. By Joe Thorsky on

        December 16, 2017
        Day 4 Hanukkah – 9 Days Remaining until Christmas!

        Foolish Question mp3/ Wood’s Tea company
        Now I Gotta worry myself schtick
        over pistol packing Santas W Cause
        by a Knock, Knock Knockin Down my Front Door
        I Warrant Less!
        When’s the all clear siren going to blow?
        Sweet LOH; A sweet Chariot Ride
        Where’ Bob Hope when you need him!!!

  3. By Joe Thorsky on

    A Belatedly Almost December 14-15, 2017
    Day 2-3 Hanukkah – 10 Days Remaining until Christmas!
    Herding of wet Yule Kats Gnome to Man; just to be
    Looking Glass sure.
    Separation Blues mp3 /Patrick Sky

    Guys and Gals
    I would counsel against a LOT of backwards looking
    rear view mirror back seat Alt. History Drivers here to there?
    You could Historically find yourselves event(yoully) ass(k)ed ended
    in the front if You’re not minefully careful, Groggy or Glugged Up.
    Great Caesar’s Wifes’ Ghost!!!
    Let’s knot being fiddling around Near Where Roam
    Burns and its All(in).

    Darlin’ Boys mp3 /The Dillards
    Dooley mp3 / The Dillards
    Big Ship mp3 / The Dillards

    The Thresher mp3 /Dan Furmanik
    The Titanic mp3 / Layne Brooks

    Midnight in Moscow mp3 / Kenny Ball and his Jazzmen
    Waterloo mp3 / Stonewall Jackson-Dr. And the Medics

    The Kat came Back mp3 /Woods Tea Company
    Swing a Kat mp3/ The Corsairs (Black Album)
    FOD! mp3 / Newport Folk Festival

    Jericho mp3 / Gordon Bok
    Wreck of the Green Cove mp3/ Gordon Bok
    Loss of the Bay Rupert mp3/ Gordon Bok
    Lizza Jane mp3 / Gordon Bok
    Rollin’ on the Sea mp3/ Breakn Traditions
    Banks of Newfoundland mp3 / The Irish Rovers
    The Royal Tar mp3 /Schooner Fare

    Arrgh! mp3/ The Wood’s Tea Company
    The Wild Rover mp3 / The Wood’s Tea Company
    Finnegan’s Wake mp3 / The Wood’s Tea Company
    The Whining Pirates of Tortuga
    Eekpocalypse Now!

    Lincoln Park Pirates mp3/ Steve Goodman
    (The Ballad of Carl Martin) mp3/Steve Goodman

    Nice try!!! Some Intriguing concepts I’ll US Grant U
    but still unconvinced or persuaded.
    Standing Pat/Nuetrality was optimum/best course of action
    to take under Most Normal Conditions except here-there.
    Ho! Ho! Noooo!!!

  4. By Justin on

    Another possible timeline is one where the Revolution fails, and independence is achieved a century later as the Dominion of America. The subsequent three-way argument with the Imperials and Union over who’s “British” and who’s “American” should fill at least fifty pages.

    1. By Steve Moore on

      How about Vikings settle Canada? Cherokees march on Washington DC and force the US to cede the Southeast US to them? Mexicans defeat the Republic of Texas? Napoleon gets a better offer from Mexico for the Louisiana Purchase? Columbus stays home and opens a chain of pizza shops in Naples? French kick Prussia’s butt and guarantee a century of peace (not tranquility) in Europe?

      1. By Alexey Shiro on

        USSR won the Cold War and by the 2017, the only remaining capitalistic states are the isolationists totalitarian regimes, like South Korea? 😉

      2. By Justin on

        The Norse (or Spanish) conquer Britain? New England remains New Holland? Or maybe Carthage razes Rome, Greece is a Persian satrapy, the Byzantines repel the Ottomans or the Tsarist Russians… and the League roflstomps all of them.

        //French kick Prussia’s butt and guarantee a century of peace (not tranquility) in Europe?//

        The thing to remember is that France was about as militaristic as Prussia back then – remember Napoleon? About the only thing that happens with a French victory is a WWI Anglo-German alliance.

      3. By Lou Schirmer on

        There was no channel storm in 1588, the Spanish rolled over the small English fleet & England is devastated by the invasion. The new world becomes primarily Spanish & Portuguese colonies, with some French & Dutch possessions.

        Or, there were no divine winds, & Kublai Khan’s invasions of Japan was successful. If there is a Pacific war, it’s against the Chinese Empire.

        1. By Justin on

          Pretty sure Japan’s already occupied – are we still talking about potential DD-verse timelines, or just alternate history in general?

          1. By Lou Schirmer on

            Either or. Japan would have been a province of the Chinese Empire, so in that AU any Pacific war would have been against the Chinese.
            How do you mean “Japan’s already occupied”, in the sense the Japanese are already there, or something else?

    2. By Matthieu on

      Technically it was not a revolution but a revolt. People were basically not asking for independence but for representation. Some limited moves could have changed everything (such as asking for taxes but giving representation + some trade freedom).

      1. By Justin on

        Not to mention a very incompetent governor. Most of the Declaration of Independence is Congress complaining about Thomas Gage!

        Point is, there’s a whole lot of things that could’ve gone wrong for the colonists. No war with Spain, for example, meaning Britain can send more regulars across the pond to put down the rebels.

          1. By Lou Schirmer on

            The writing Dutchman, doomed to sail the publishing seas until the end of time!

          2. By Steve Moore on

            Well, one person’s crap is another person’s mortgage payment (ok, maybe on the house in the Caymans…)

          3. By Lou Schirmer on

            It’s just speculation on what the next (if there is one) transfer might be like.

          4. By Steve Moore on

            For Silva and Pam’s sake, let’s hope it’s Glenn Miller and his band, although they would have landed in France or England.

          5. By Justin on

            Well, transfers tend to pop up near warzones and unexplored areas, and the Pacific’s kinda quiet and well-known right now. Perhaps the Almirante Cochrane or a Commonwealth/Royal Navy cruiser (entering/leaving BC), but otherwise, I’m betting on an Atlantic transfer.

  5. By Joe Thorsky on

    Almost December 13, 2017
    In the Spirit of:
    Hammer to Fall mp3/ Queen
    The Keeper mp3 David Kincaid / The Brandos
    Hallowed Ground mp3 David Kincaid / The Brandos
    Unsilenced Heroes mp3/ Steve Goodman

    Sum Simmon Rhousekeeping

    Guys and Gals!
    I just had a chance to read and go over all of your
    most recent postings and responses regarding
    The Pearl Harbor Rememberence and Commemoration.
    I found them all tempered and tasteful as they were well thought out,
    refreshingly reasoned and inciteful. Who woulda / coulda thought that
    G Washington’s Letter of Admonition on Citizenship and Public Service
    would be so uniformly adopted and taken to heart, mind and soul by those
    who’ve already given, and have already been there and back again.
    I can only guess and surmise that there must be a little hope banked upon
    and left behind by those Bluest of our Better Angels after all.

    “It’s not what happens, but how the leader sees what happens,
    that counts.”…
    “Books represent the accumulated knowledge and wisdom of the ages, available
    for pennies on the dollar. Books preserve the greatest thoughts, the greatest ideas,
    and the greatest insights of human experience.”…
    “And reading is one of the best, most time-tested avenues to leadership experience.
    If other people’s experiences is the best teacher, books are the best transmitter of
    that experience.”…
    Excerpted passages
    From “Launching a Leadership Revolution”
    by Chris Brady and Orin Woodward

    “The myriad facets of command in even a single battle, and the
    multitude of considerations lying behind each such decision,
    demand long thorough and painstaking consideration before yielding
    their full cargo of insights and lessons.”…
    “Rather than simply judging that successful actions were wise and
    that failed actions foolish, questions about the basis for those actions
    must be asked. Was a successful operation favored by apparent chance,
    or did a residue of good planning lie behind it? Was a failed endeavor
    based on a flawed plan ,or, might that plan have succeeded under the normal
    conditions of war?”….
    Excerpted passages
    From “Leadership and Command in The American Civil War”
    By Steven E. Woodworth

    Everyone and Taylor
    The post-pre WW I-II Era is so remarkable and so unique for further scholarly investigation exactly because the American population was far and away better prepared for a total war against Totalitarianistic philosophies than even the institutionalized military services of the US Army and the US Navy. Thus, the signature importance of both the Great Depression and Prohibition just can’t be summarily or entirely discounted/dismissed.
    Moreover, a critical reason why the pre-post war actions /decisions of both W. Wilson and C. Coolidge up to, during and; in the aftermath of both WW I and WW II were, and, are so profoundly important, consequential and generational to us all; even for tommorrow’s today.
    Twentieth Century History really all began and started with L’ Affair Zimmerman.

    So, unless otherwise persuaded; I must therefore have to strongly dissent and strenuously disagree with all of your reasonings and assessments to date as to the critical nature importance/significance regarding those singularly historical and monumental events that led up to; and subsequently ended with W. Wilson’s determinative 1917 decision
    (To declare War, not declare war, continue neutrality or wait).

    In any case, I do not think it is even necessary to remind any of you
    that when it comes to Mr. Anderson’s “Destroyermen’s World”
    anything/everything that can happen unusually does and
    in many not so matter of factly” mystical or mysterious ways.
    (And all with the added subtly and flare of a very pistol!).
    There are all those messy complications to Gnome in on.
    Best Day 1 Hanukkah and Chrismas wishes to all

    1. By Justin on

      A “Triple Quadruple Alliance” America needs a POD waaay before that telegram.

      The thing is, Zimmerman (not to mention the Lusitania) was merely the excuse for entering the war; Wilson himself may or may not have wanted to stay neutral, BUT the people surrounding him very much wanted to throw in with Britain.
      So an alternate timeline would also require stronger US-German trade ties, bullying/aggression on the world stage from the Entente, and a far larger USN (America pre-WWI was highly dependent on the Royal Navy).

  6. By Steve Moore on

    Flipping through my Nat Geo World atlas (from 1963, boy, the world has changed) and was thinking, if I’m the head stooge at the LOT, would I rather take my task force to the Caribbean, subjugate Venezuela for it’s oil supply, and snatch up a much more valuable choke point to anchor my zone of operations? All I have to fight is a 19th century navy either way. If I side with the Doms, I get the NUS for my own and control the Pass. If I side with the NUS (who doesn’t really like the Empire anyway), I get the Pass and keep the NUS under my thumb. Either way I’m a winner, since I know the Union won’t come after me.

    Maybe even slip a little aid Halik’s way just to keep him on the fence, keep Middle East oil under my control, and start building my own Suez Canal (or railway to start) with his help. The more of the Grik Empire I can help him take, from Arabia on down, the bigger divide I can put in the way of keeping the RRP in the Union. Halik’s just learning honor; he’s much further away from the concepts of liberty or democracy.

    1. By Joe Thorsky on

      Why not postulate way-way back outside the box.

      Consider the consequential events surrounding the “Zimmerman”
      telegram and W Wilson’s war declaration dilemma and instead of
      having the United States declare War against Germany she instead
      had actually declared war against Great Britain and the Allies
      How, What, Where and Why would World War I have changed for the better
      or the worse?

      Might it also be feasible/possible to have a contingent from a WWI German-American military force be inserted into Taylor’s WWII Destroyermen,s world
      as a possible restorative counterforce against the NUS, The Doms and The League?
      Americans vs Americans-Civil War deja’ vu!!!!

      1. By William Curry on

        In our time line there was no way that the US was going to side with the Germans. The Eastern establishment, bankers and industrialists were anglophiles. The House of Morgan bankrolled the Allies and stood to lose billions if the the Central Powers won. US industry was heavily involved in supplying the Allies. Most of the shells fired on the western front by the British and French were made in the US. US manufactured steel was the primary source of steel for both the French and British during the war. Companies like Midvale Steel & Ordnance were busy cranking out artillery for the British. Dupont built the world’s large Nitrocellulose plant in Hopewell Va to supply the British. There was some truth to the “Merchants of Death” meme in the 1920’s. Though I think it was more like the “Bankers of Death” And Woodrow Wilson was an Anglophile looking for some reason to get in the war on the Allied side.

        1. By Alexey Shiro on

          Agreed. It would took some radical steps – some really stupid mistakes by Britain – to actually venture the USA toward joining the German Empire. Americans weren’t particulary naive about German ambitions; they worried about the possibility of German invasion in Monroe Sphere since Samoa crisis. And more recent actions – German attemps to interfer on Philippines in 1898, German attempts to intefer in Venezuela in 1903-1904 – all this made USA really suspicious about Germany.

          1. By Matt on

            To pull from other alternative history scifi, Harry Turtledove has a series of books that take place in a world where the South wins the Civil War. World War 1 and 2 have major fronts between the north and south and the USA becomes aligned with Germany because the British and French supported the South. The point of divergence happens at Gettysburg where Lee ends up being victorious because this happens because orders he had sent to Stonewall that in our time line never made it to him did which turned the battle with his cavalry counter attacking the north. With that decisive victory the British and French came to support the south and pressed the USA to end the war. This has real world support as they were indeed willing to potentially support the CSA but held back for a decisive victory that would prove it would last.

            If our German aligned Americans came from similar time line then it would be possible. But the divergence needed would have to happen far before WW1.

            I think a more likely and interesting scenario are Brits aligned with the German empire. At the beginning of WW1 the British were wavering in their pact with France mostly because the French were seen as their true traditional rivals. Not the Germans. The German empire also had a family tie to the British monarchy. What ended up putting the British in the entente was Germany invading Belgium to go around the French network of forts. This was seen as an aggressive act that had no sensible purpose as Belgium was neutral and news reports flooded in of German brutality. If Germany had decided to go straight through France then Britain would likely have come on the side of the central powers. It would have been a good opportunity to put the French down yet again. With British support, the war likely would have gone the other way and we would see a German empire surviving into the 20th century. It also would have likely meant a shorter war and perhaps would have allowed the old monarchies to last a bit longer. With the royal navy blockading France and German ground troops pressing on them, the French wouldn’t have lasted as long. There would be major political implications.

          2. By Justin on

            Partially correct; Lloyd George’s Liberals supported Imperial Germany, but Churchill’s Tories opposed them… and with Germany’s constant sabre-rattling, the Liberals eventually didn’t like Germany either.
            Most of said sabre-rattling was Wilhelm II – he was a lousy public speaker and he wanted an empire and a navy, leading to several diplomatic fumbles and a naval arms race with Britain.

            The POD you’d need for an Anglo-German pact is Frederick III surviving his battle with cancer and remaining Kaiser through the early 20th… but then his liberal reforms may have prevented the Great War in the first place.

          3. By Alexey Shiro on

            It was simply impossible to prevent the Great War. Too many conflicts… and too few of those who did not consider war as the best possible answer. Europe of early XX century forgot all about the terrors of actual war; the last of large European wars – Franco-Prussian – was quick and relatively “civil”. And it was more than forty years ago by the 1914. The real wars – cruel, destructive, exausting – was ended more than a century ago. Too far away for anyone to actually remeber them.

          4. By Matthieu on

            ” USA becomes aligned with Germany because the British and French supported the South. ”

            Something that can’t really happen. Americans often think that it was a strong possibility but effectively Napoleon III was never going to support actively the south. The big issue is slavery. Yes he’s a dictator but he relies a lot on popularity and he knows that republicans are not far away. Supporting the south while the have slavery. No way. It just can’t happen (but trading with them so as to make the war last it’s possible).

            “At the beginning of WW1 the British were wavering in their pact with France mostly because the French were seen as their true traditional rivals. Not the Germans”

            Completely false. After 19.2 Germans appeared as the main rivals for the British: the race for colonies was over (no more land to take) and basically the French navy was not threatening England. At the same time Germans created a brand new navy obviously intended to fight UK. At a global level the British strategy during the last 200 years was to never allow a single country to rule the continent. They are going to help the French just not to let Germany dominate.

            “If Germany had decided to go straight through France then Britain would likely have come on the side of the central powers.”

            No no and no. First going straight to France is just impossible (that’s why they avoided the forts!). Heard about Verdun? The whole border is full of such fortifications. Siding with Germany? It just means that you betray close allies and years of diplomacy.

          5. By Generalstarwars333 on

            Matthieu, you might be right about the french not supporting the south, but I imagine the British would be watching and waiting for a chance to go “HA HA! YOUR COUNTRY DOES NOT WORK!” to their former colonies. Then again, maybe not, since contemporary British writers talking about america(or at least Edward Shepard Creasy) seem to have a mindset of “they’re bigger than Europe, they’re one country, but they’re anglo-saxon so they’re okay.”

      2. By Steve Moore on

        Well, will have to convene another meeting of the Flat Map & Coffee Society and study on this. With the ice age underway, glad we don’t have to take Arctic campaigns or Mercator projections into account.

        For the life of me, I still can’t get over the concept of French, Germans, Italians, Spanish agreeing on anything.

          1. By Joe Thorsky on

            The Mary L Mckay mp3- Schooner Fare
            Wreck of the Athens Queen mp3 -Stan Rogers
            Day of the Clipper mp3 – Schooner Fare

            Try Irish Coffee instead!
            Good Article about Q-Boats reality sure’s
            much better than many Fictionalized Accounts
            Flock of Ships- Brian Callison
            Raider Kormoran by Capt. Theodore Detmers

          2. By Steve Moore on

            Thanks for the suggestions, Joe.
            Took the pledge a few years back, made a bet and had to give up either meat or booze.

    2. By Justin on

      Right, but the League wants them ALL gone so they can take the whole place for themselves, so then you’d have to fight the winner.
      The Dominion won’t last for much longer, meaning you’d be stuck in a land war across the ocean… those don’t go very well. And the NUS, being both stronger and chummy with the Union, might stick you in that land war anyway. Neither is a very good long-term option.

      As for Halik, the League doesn’t know it yet, but they’re probably wasting an envoy. While he doesn’t understand modern philosophy, he does understand honour and courage; given a choice between worthy foes that he’s fought and signed a treaty with, and a cowardly stranger who coaxes, coerces and literally reeks of deception (raptor senses, right?), guess who’s going to the cookpots?

      1. By Joe Thorsky on


        I would think that the League/LOT is still in
        a state of cultural recovery and shock (ptsd?)
        especially after finding out that there is no
        Suez canal, no Pyramids and no Egypt. You can’t
        wage any kind of war without a viable logistics pipeline.
        They are husbanding and wiving (being PC correct) of
        their combine resources for just what again?

      2. By Steve Moore on

        Agree, Joe and Justin. League wants all the marbles, and just a beaten and cowed peasantry for labor supply. That’s why they employ the strategy they do; keep the pot stirred and everyone ELSE fighting and dying while they wait to fight the embattled winner; if they come from a world where Britain and France were bled dry, that may be what they have in mind.

        And they’ve had 5 years to contemplate the geographical limitations (and advantages) of this world. Less freedom of movement, and if they’ve got even a dozen submarines (they threw away 2, including the Surcouf, in the Indian Ocean), they can use those to close the Pass and close the Cape of Good Hope.

        That’s why I suggested that they may be looking at the Suez as a long-term project. Dredges can be steam-powered and wooden-hulled, as can their accompanying barges. And by creating a railway alongside, they’ve got a more efficient logistical system. Conquest depends on logistics as well as blitzkrieg.

        Halik and Niwa might relate more closely to the Italians, if they still have a puppet king, rather than the Germans, Spanish or French dictatorships. Just a thought.

  7. By Joe Thorsky on

    DECEMBER 7, 2017
    Let’s not let the signature events and lessons unlearned
    that fateful Sunday morning at Pearl Harbor in 1941
    become historical footnotes and distant forgotten memories.

    1. By Charles Simpson on

      Remember Chief Grey’s hatred of the Japanese? This WW 2 movie on Pearl Harbor shows some of the racism involved, but remember also the Japanese were as racist against the polyglot society of the United States. This racism lead to the infamous Japanese internment camps of WW 2 where American Citizens were herded into concentration camps based on their race, not our proudest hour.

      1. By Steve Moore on

        True, but it went even further back to more than just the Japanese; the Chinese, the Moros, and others. Not that the Japanese, as you mentioned, were any better; the Great East Asia Co=Prosperity Sphere was about as democratic as the Reich. And there were more than a few Japanese spies in Hawaii in undercover roles.

        1. By Matt on

          It’s fair to say there was a lot of racism going around at the time and both sides underestimated each other because of racist stereotypes. The Germans thought the Russians were lazy and weak willed, they were shown just how strong Russian will is. The Americans thought the Japanese were unimaginative and just copied everyone. Pearl Harbor showed just how innovative and clever they were. And the Japanese thought that Americans were weak and couldn’t stomach a hard war. Well this side of the Russians, America probably has the highest tolerance for that.

      2. By William Curry on

        They also herded German-Americans and Italian-Americans into camps. The German-Americans were treated worse than the Japanese. Many either staying in the camps until 1948 or were deported to Germany immediately after the war ended. See “The Train to Crystal City” by Jan Jarboe Russell.

        1. By Charles Simpson on

          Were they citizens of the United States or Enemy Aliens caught by the war in the United States? Rounding up enemy aliens was common in the two world wars, however American Citizens rounded up was a different matter.

          1. By William Curry on

            Yes they rounded up American citizens of German and Italian derivation. The man primarily responsible for the round up of Japanese-Americans was Earl Warren, who at the time was Attorney General of California.

  8. By Joe Thorsky on

    December 6, 2017
    December 5, 2017
    December 4, 2017
    Other Pearl Harbor like KATastrophe’s
    that are in need of memorialization and rememberence.

    Tora, Exercise Tiger 28, April 19, 1944
    Exercise Tiger
    Wendy Lawrence
    Fronthill Media Limited 2013

    The Invasion Before Normandy
    Edwin P. Hoyt
    Robert Hale Limited 1987

    Tora, Sinking of the Liberty Ship John Harvey December 2, 1943
    Disaster at Bari
    Glenn B. Infield
    The Macmillion Company 1971

    Nightmare at Bari
    Gerald Reminick
    Glencannon Press 2001

    Poisonous Inferno
    George Southern
    Airlife Publishing LTD 2002

    Hardly mere Coincidence or just random Chance
    that Saint Nicholas, The Patron Saint of all Sailors
    body lays at rest and is interred at the Bari, Italy Cathedral.

    Tora, The Inglorious Sinkings of LST-353 in the West Loch Disaster May 21, 1944
    Together with LST-39, LST-43, LST-69, LST-179, LST-353, LST-480
    and LCT-961, 963 and 983
    Harbor Tugs Osceola, Hoga, and Geronimo
    Tugs YTL-233, YTL-306, YTL-307, YTL-308, YTL-309, and YTL-339
    The net tender Tamaha
    The chartered tug Mikioi

    Encircling back to square one , back to where Diplomacy died
    and War came to life.
    Pearl Harbor, Hawaii
    The Second Pearl Harbor: The West Loch Disaster,
    May 21, 1944
    by Gene Salecker
    West Loch Disaster by Jesse Russell

  9. By Joe Thorsky on

    December 5, 2017
    December 4, 2017
    Other Pearl Harbor like KATastrophe’s
    that are in need of memorialization and rememberence.

    Tora, Exercise Tiger 28, April 19, 1944
    Exercise Tiger
    Wendy Lawrence
    Fronthill Media Limited 2013

    The Invasion Before Normandy
    Edwin P. Hoyt
    Robert Hale Limited 1987

    Tora, Sinking of the Liberty Ship John Harvey December 2, 1943
    Disaster at Bari
    Glenn B. Infield
    The Macmillion Company 1971

    Nightmare at Bari
    Gerald Reminick
    Glencannon Press 2001

    Poisonous Inferno
    George Southern
    Airlife Publishing LTD 2002

    Hardly mere Coincidence or just random Chance
    that Saint Nicholas, The Patron Saint of all Sailors
    body lays at rest and is interred at the Bari, Italy Cathedral.

  10. By Joe Thorsky on

    December 4, 2017

    Other Pearl Harbor like KATastrophe’s
    that are in need of memorialization and rememberence.

    Tora, Exercise Tiger 28, April 19, 1944

    Exercise Tiger
    Wendy Lawrence
    Fronthill Media Limited 2013

    The Invasion Before Normandy
    Edwin P. Hoyt
    Robert Hale Limited 1987

    Unheralded Pre-Christmas Celebrations/Commemorations
    From the Maritime Executive

    The Story of
    Herman Schuenemann and the Schooner-The Rouse Simmons

  11. By Joe Thorsky on


    December may be considered by many the month for Christmas and Hanukkah
    Celebration. But, before we get ourselves ready to get in the mood to participate
    in these festive Christmas Holiday activities
    At Last, I’m Ready for Christmas
    Stan Rogers

    In less than 7 days we as a nation do need to commemorate, memorialize
    and again remember that most transformative and significant of historical events
    that occurred on early Sunday morning December 7, 1941 at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii.
    Let’s not again ignore or forget the hard lessons relearned and the terrible Human
    price that was to be eventually paid for decades of national complacency, military
    unpreparedness and collective naivety.

    The website Military has a special section of paintings and renditions
    that attempt to depict and codify many of the events that were to have taken
    place on that fateful and historical Sunday Morning December 7, 1941.
    It’s a very good and useful site to visit/bookmark.

    Maybe you should consider commissioning one of the featured
    artists on the website to do your next book’s dustjacket and artwork.

    A Great movie depiction of MTB and Merchant Marine Black bag operations
    is the movie MALAYA with Jimmy Stuart and Spencer Tracy
    (It’s all about tramp steamers and rubber barons)

    If you all are still in active recovery mode and are in dire straits
    need of a musical Bilge Pump curative for all that overcelebratin’
    that was done o’er the Thanksgiving Holiday.
    Then listen up.

    The Thanksgiving Song mp3/ Fred Holstein
    How much Tequila (Did I drink last night?) mp3/ Steve Goodman
    Vegematic mp3/ Steve Goodman
    Telephone Answering Tape mp3/ Steve Goodman
    Six Hours Ahead of the Sun mp3/ Steve Goodman
    Eight ball blues mp3/ Steve Goodman
    You Better Get it While You Can
    (The Ballad of Carl Martin) mp3/Steve Goodman

    Lincoln Park Pirates mp3/ Steve Goodman
    Better than Alka Seltzer

    1. By Steve Moore on

      Alongside his output of Westerns, Louis L’Amour had a run of books about merchies in the South Pacific, sort of a mashup of Blackhawks and Terry & the Pirates, recall they were a good read. Unfortunately downsized the LLA collection a few years back, don’t have the titles.

    2. By Charles Simpson on

      The perfect example of racism effecting military thought:

      USA: the Japanese could never successfully attack America.

      Japan: the Americans don’t have the stomach for a vicious war.

      Both proved wrong. Now a song the attack spawned:

  12. By Lou Schirmer on

    Call me oblivious, but I just noticed you’re picture here is in front of the USS Wisconsin. I’d have thought you’d pose with the USS Texas, given where you’re from.

    1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

      I’m in front of or aboard Texas on my facebook and dust jackets, and I go see her once or twice a year. Gotta spread the love.

      1. By Lou Schirmer on

        I hear they have good cheese there, I wonder if any made it to the ship while she was in service.
        Did you get your list of edits for DD lined up?

        1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

          Yes I did, and I appreciate the help from everybody. I addressed each of the concerns that were raised and hopefully they’ll make the changes.

  13. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

    Ok guys, I know we had a list of screw-ups in Devil’s Due somewhere, but I can’t find it. I’ll be getting the page proofs in for the paperback soon, so now’s the time to speak up if you saw typos etc! Thanks!

    1. By Alexey Shiro on

      Well… “Leopardo” again was called “Leone” (“Esploratori”)-class destroyer, while she is actually “Leone”-class esploratori (large destroyer).

      1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

        Thanks Alexey. I’ll try–again–to get that squared away.

        1. By Matthieu on

          Talking about that, if you use European names (French, Italians and so on), be really careful with accents (é, è , ê, ë) as it can change dramatically the way you say it and the meaning.

          “René” is a first name. “Rêne” means reins (for horses) and sounds like “Reine” (queen).

    2. By Nestor on

      I have one very minor issue but I admit it will only matter to those of us who are bilingual Spanish so it doesn’t detract at all from the narrative. Having said that, here it goes:

      Chapter 6: When Donaghey captures Matarife, a Dom officer responds to calls of surrender by shouting “¡No habrá rendición!”. If he was supposed to tell his crew “There will be no surrender!” or “You are not allowed to surrender!” he would have said either “¡No nos vamos a rendir!” or even better “¡Estan prohibidos a rendirse!”. I know this is a minor nitpick but as is, it reads “No surrender is available!”, which may be technically correct but it’s somewhat awkward sounding.

      Chapter 9: About Sister Audry’s “El Vengadores de Dios”, if their name is supposed to mean “The Avengers of God” then “Los Vengadores de Dios” would be more grammatically correct. In Spanish the article “El” is used when referring to a singular individual whereas “Los” refers to a group. As is, it reads “A single Avengers of God”.

      I know the Vengadores were introduced long before Devil’s Due but this is the first time I see calls for corrections. If it helps, I’ll be more than glad to be a resource whenever you need anything translated into Spanish.

      1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

        Thanks Nestor. Yah, that hacked me off too. I speak passable archaic Spanish (from researching and translating old drill manuals) and my wife is a Spanish as a first language bi-lingual teacher–yet the CE claimed to be an “expert” (has been, drip under pressure) and apparently made those changes arbitrarily AFTER I disagreed with them! One could make the argument that the Spanish has degraded, and I even tried to introduce a taste of that early on, but El instead of Los??? That was not MY dumbassery on parade. Thanks for reminding me and I’ll try to get them fixed.

      2. By Alexey Shiro on

        By the way, interesting question; how much Dom language changed over the centuries? After all, the initial base was quite limited in numbers of native speakers, without any contact with other spanish-speakung peoples for a long, long time… Quite probably that Dominionese is pretty different from initial Spanish…

        1. By Nestor on

          Sure it’s plausible for Doms to have their own distinct dialect but it would have already been described as such, just like Grik and Mi-Anaaka’s own languages. But because so far Doms do communicate in Spanish in no uncertain terms then we’ll have to continue following that premise.

          1. By Matt on

            The dominion seems to have a fair bit of social stratification. You have on one side the Spanish descended and speaking ruling classes that makeup the church as well as military and political leadership and then you have the native American descended groups which have no real political power. The ruling class use Spanish for most communication and likely Latin for church duties and given the separation between the classes it isn’t all that hard to imagine that their Spanish hasn’t changed much at all from standard Spanish of the 14-1500’s. The Latin is also likely very close to catholic church Latin with possibly some loan words to describe the more…. Brutal concepts.

          2. By Justin on

            Right, just like the Imperials; upper class speaks Queens’ Governor-Empress’ English, lower class and indentured have more of a Cockney tongue.

          3. By Matt on

            Right. You even see it in modern and freer societies. Even here in the US you have various different regional accents and almost dialects of English but then in the media they will speak “general American English” unless a character is supposed to have a certain accent as a defining trait. You also see it with politicians when they aren’t pandering to their constituents as well as lawyers, judges etc.

            The spanish the Dom’s speak is going to be very different from that of Juan. He would have a more modern but Phillipino influenced Spanish whereas the Doms would have a Spanish more akin to a South American dialect but stuck in the age of exploration.!

          4. By Nestor on

            Juan Marcos would probably have grown up speaking Tagalog, which while somewhat influenced by Spanish it’s a separate language nonetheless. The Dom’s would have been too isolated for their language to develop into something equivalent to Latin-American Spanish. More likely theirs is closer to old world Castilian Spanish like that spoken by the characters in Cervantes’ Don Quixote.

          5. By Justin on

            Good thing there aren’t any factions that predate Columbus; I highly doubt that anybody in the crew reads Shakespeare or Chaucer.

    3. By Justin on

      Found the list – when in doubt, hit Ctrl-F:

      1. USS Andamaan (should be Sular)
      In Recognition Silhouettes & pages 78-80, 147, 204, 205, 443 & 471
      2. “Rauol” Laborde, character sheet
      3. Vanilla in Madagascar, pg. 101
      4. 260 south latitude (later 26th parallel), pg. 194 2nd para.
      5. All the holdouts were “S”killed…, pg. 223, 1st para.

    4. By Steve Moore on

      Just got my copy of DD back from the lending library, so will peruse. Been working a lot lately so some time off is due.
      No typos, but a thought about language; Doms speak mostly Spanish, probably some English from dealing with the Empire. League still has their plan in mind of keeping others busy while consolidating their strength. What would make more sense than to ship a regiment of Spanish troops to Central America to train first, and stiffen Dom resistance (we’ve seen that already), for the purpose of retaining Dom control of the Pass of Fire. That, in turn, isolates the NUS from the Union and the Empire (probably still some lingering mistrust there, since all they’ve had contact with is Fred & Kari, and now Donaghey). Close the Pass of Fire, and the NUS (or any other North American group yet to be discovered by the Union) has to pass through a League-controlled Atlantic, and past the Cape of Good Hope.
      Alexey and others have had some good musings on the post-Soffeshk world; I think one thought the League may have is what a more intelligent Grik nation would present as problems; Imagine a dozen Haliks turned loose on North Africa, a warm climate much to their liking.

      1. By Steve Moore on

        And most Spanish field-grade officers are graduates of infantry and cavalry schools, undoubtedly.

        1. By donald j johnson on

          The Dom officers will probably have heavy training in religion first and other subject later. As they most likely before the present have little actual fighting other than destroying villages that were having an uprising, they probably did not have much need for a real military school.
          Yes they were most likely from the ruling family’s with the occasional battlefield commission, these being the ones most likely to actually be good leaders without worrying about losing class with lost battles and therefore actually leading fighting better. I suspect the unknown leader that is leading the Doms at this time may be one of these.

          1. By Matthieu on

            As you say the current Dom military is probably populated by a bunch of leaders whose real knowledge of military affairs is incredibly limited: they are used to dominate and to threaten isolated villages and plunder the area. They do not have the training for large scale battles. Well they do have a training but it assumed equivalent weapons and tactics.

          2. By Lou Schirmer on

            One of the problems the Doms are going to have to resolve is their habit of torturing to death any leader who A) loses or B) pisses off the religious leaders. They’re probably not worried so much lately about loosing class as loosing skin & essential body parts, while staked out for the ants or over a slow fire.

          3. By matthieu on

            Do not forget the important thing: do they REALLY believe in their own religion. If they do, they are goint to remain dangerous.

          4. By Steve Moore on

            You gentlemen have summarized the point exactly. General Giap did not spring from a Charlie Manson cult, but from a cauldron of experience. The Dom rank and file would be easier to control, and the stronger that military leadership, the less likely they’d defect to Sister Audrey. If I were Shinya, I’d have my psy-ops people working on that…

          5. By Charles Simpson on

            There are indications in the books that the high command of Dominion Forces was hereditary. Current leadership has been trained by contact with alliance forces and no longer using antiquated techniques.

      2. By Lou Schirmer on

        //What would make more sense than to ship a regiment of Spanish troops to Central America to train first, and stiffen Dom resistance (we’ve seen that already), for the purpose of retaining Dom control of the Pass of Fire.//

        They’d have to be very wary of the DOM religious fanaticism. They would all be considered heretics even though they were allies, & so would turn on them or sell them out without hesitation. They’d have to be constantly vigilant with their “hosts”. At least the allies wouldn’t slaughter them for some perceived religious faux pas.

        1. By Steve Moore on

          True. But possible loss of empire and power can change the odds. The Doms need them more than the League needs the Doms.

      3. By Justin on

        Might be easier to just sell them weapons and ammo – the Dominion will become more dependent on League shipments and more willing to make concessions, and that gets the League access to the Pass of Fire.

        Works for the Allies too. Since the Dommie conscripts probably won’t be very good with modern weapons, Shinya and Blas’ people will be able to adapt to WW2 combat on “Easy Mode.”

        1. By Steve Moore on

          Agree, but judging by the generals prior to Don Fiasco or whatever the heck his name was, they were still at the board game strategy level. If I’m the League, I put some backbone into the army (and slowly take control of them), some decent coast artillery (from any similar Savoie-like throwaways), and a squadron of Macchis, and the Union is never getting through the Pass. The rank-and-file, military and civilian, would probably follow any group less murderous than the Doms.

          1. By Justin on

            Or as Lou observed, the League could have a regiment ritually sacrificed by the Blood Drinkers for no good reason… and getting directly involved at all (right now, at least) will likely turn the proxy war into a shooting war. Why take the risk, especially when they WANT the Dominion weak, incompetent and ready to conquer?

            Nah, the whole point of getting involved in Central America would be to merely slow the Allies down. Give the Dommies MGs and rifles for now, invade later.

          2. By Steve Moore on

            My original point was that the Doms needed some leadership cadre, Mauser actions and Maxims be damnned. The League wants any other threats in the world to die by each others hands, remember. Putting some backbone in the troops, even with 100 advisors, I wouldn’t put past them. And the League appears to be faction-prone; the losers, like the Savoie, might find themselves on a one-way expedition.

          3. By Justin on

            But they want to BE the Dommie leadership, rather than advisors serving at the mercy of the “Pope.” Seems best to let the two factions slug it out, then roll in when it’s all over and rule over the ashes Cersei-style.

          4. By Steve Moore on

            Now we’re getting into armed trains. Alexey, didn’t both Reds and Whites use armored trains in the civil war following the Revolution? The Ottomans used them in the Middle East, or at least in “Lawrence of Arabia”.

            Seems to me that would be the better approach, use dedicated flatcars (or open-top cars) for a couple of twin-25mm mounts and a pair of single M2’s. Push one in front, pull one in back of train. At least until the Doms come up with Typhoons or IL-s…

          5. By Justin on

            Except we’re talking about settling the West Coast and beyond – no Dommies there, even if the empire’s still around by then. The trains just need 2-3 swivel guns to keep the Allosaurs off, and possibly a barracks car.

        2. By donald j johnson on

          The league will actually most likely cause things to get worse for themselves if they sell guns and supplies to the doms. Their supplies will quickly run out unless they have the ability to replenish and I suspect that they have not yet realized that, or did not realize the need until too late to be usable.

          1. By Justin on

            Depends on how big their supply problem is. They probably won’t be sending planes and ships any time soon, but limited amounts of small arms shouldn’t be a problem.

            The idea is that the League isn’t ready for a war just yet, so they’re just going to stall Shinya for as long as possible. Once the Dominion are on the brink of collapse, the League declares war on the Dommies.
            “See Allies, we’re on your side! Now don’t mind us as we quietly take the Pass for ourselves…”

          2. By donald j johnson on

            the problem isn’t the limited amount of arms and ammunition they’re going to send because they can’t afford to send a limited amount if they sent anythingthen to send a limited amount then when they stop the doms will get really upset. they either need to send a complete manufacturery which they most likely do not have or commit themselves to making and supplying the ammunition.

          3. By Generalstarwars333 on

            And unlike the allies, they can’t supply them with semi-advanced stuff like an Allin-Silva equivalent. They came over with so much modern stuff, they probably never saw a need to make something simpler and less advanced in any large numbers, if at all, and just focused on making more modern stuff. The only reason the Allies really made Allin-Silvas was because they had to outfit large armies. The League, to our knowledge, hasn’t had to do that since their army was already outfitted. So anything they could send would be way above the Doms’ ability to supply, whereas the impies don’t need to change much to start cranking out Allin-Silvas.

          4. By Justin on

            Note that the Union’s jumped from muskets to SMGs to Browning .50 cals in (roughly) three years… and that the League’s been here six. They obviously won’t replicate a Macchi anytime soon, but a simplified MG34 and several crates of ammo should be a piece of cake.

          5. By donald j johnson on

            //They obviously won’t replicate a Macchi anytime soon, but a simplified MG34 and several crates of ammo should be a piece of cake.//
            When one realize that they are most like keeping the locals as slaves because they conquered them on arrival they won’t be using them as weapons manufacturers anytime soon. the doms also have the same problem with their natives. the difference being that they have been here much longer so have developed a larger “SAFE” population that they can trust to build weapons.
            the league cannot even begin to trust anyone but their own soldiers that came with them for small arms weapons manufacturing. larger weapons like cannon they might be able to trust them to build but not the ammunition as they dare not allow any explosives to escape.
            as they will not want to tie up soldiers manufacturing critical parts for others the most that they will do is send plans and hope the doms can build them and we must remember that the doms are not yet up to interchangable parts

          6. By Matt on

            A simplified MG34 is called the MG42 actually. Both of which the Doms have no hope of making. The MG34 requires pretty fine machining like any modern weapon and the MG42 requires that plus metal stamping. Stamping is only easier if you have the ability to do it.

            The Doms seem to be on a rough tech parity with the empire so something like a breech loader isn’t out of the question. That’s more an issue of ideas than it is of materials science and manufacturing technology. But even then drawn brass cartridges were surprisingly difficult to develop, the empire benefitted from the Union’s knowledge but would the league want to give that up? Modern automatic weapons require two major technological milestones to be practical, first self contained cartridges and second smokeless powder. After that a machinegun is only a matter of time and as you say the Union was able to produce machine guns pretty rapidly once they got those two figured out. The league wants to maintain technological dominance and is having a hard enough time keeping the Union from catching up. The last thing they want to do is create another possible rival. Especially when they are so damn evil, even by Nazi standards.

            If they are going to send aide it will likely be in intelligence and using their own units in a strategic sense to level the playing field. After all they want everyone else to destroy each other. Using that destroyer in the Atlantic to stop the Union reaching the NUS is a perfect example. If it had worked then they would delay the aide of the NUS and prolong the conflict with the Doms which would only further weaken the Union in attrition.

            I could see them sending a commando unit to fuck with the Union at some crucial point or maybe sneaking a sub through the pass of fire to attack the carriers. They aren’t going to pull a prometheus though.

          7. By Lou Schirmer on

            //The Doms seem to be on a rough tech parity with the empire so something like a breech loader isn’t out of the question.//

            They might be able to do something like an early Sharps rifle, using paper cartridges & percussion caps. It would increase their rate of fire dramatically & self contained cartridges & percussion caps would make them more reliable in the jungle conditions. They could even make a pistol version, which would be cool.

          8. By Steve Moore on

            Well, if they were ready to try and build airplanes with Fred’s help, they must have some kind of more advanced industry hiding in the catacombs.

          9. By Lou Schirmer on

            Yeah, if they’re making steam engines for their ships, they definitely have the capability to make better stuff. I’m kind of surprised they didn’t have a rail system going. It’d make it easier to move troops & supplies around. Maybe they just started one & it’s on the eastern side.

          10. By Justin on

            Probably the same reason the Imperials don’t have rails; even more so, since the Dominion is basically Aztec Ingsoc and technology and skilled labour are a threat.

          11. By Lou Schirmer on

            The Imperials probably don’t have rails since they’re on islands for the most part & everything large or bulky is easily moved by sea & most of their major cities are ports.

          12. By Steve Moore on

            Well, the Imperials will have plenty of incentive to import rail technology from the RRP since they’ll need it to open up oil and gold deposits, not to mention pushing into the interior and running down the coast to San Diego.

          13. By Lou Schirmer on

            True! They’ll also have incentive to build heavy, portable weapons to deal with the super thunder lizards there as well. Maybe a jeep type with a W/G engine mounting a 25mm derivative? A pintle mounted Doom Stomper type weapon, that anyone can shoot, with a 5 round magazine, either semi-auto or a bolt action. A bolt gun would be quicker to produce.

          14. By Justin on

            Better mount the 25 on a tractor, for farming and bulldozing. Or head north and domesticate a couple of mammoth herds, which’ll do the same thing.

            Either way, at this point the colonies are going to be self-sufficient and Dominion-free. The Union should suggest that the Imperials give them more autonomy (or at least a competent governor) before they start screaming “taxation without representation.”

          15. By Lou Schirmer on

            Right, but they’ll still have to keep the ST lizards off the trains. Maybe mount a few directly on the trains, one on the caboose & on behind the locomotive. The ST lizards will initially see the trains as either prey or competition. Same thing with the herds of large herbivores.

    5. By Lou Schirmer on

      Sorry, just got back for visiting relatives. Here’s the list I was trying to keep up. You guys have been adding while I was gone.

      Devil’s Due Edits

      1. Justin – USS Andamaan (sunk in BITW)
      In Recognition Silhouettes & pages 78-80, 147, 204, 205, 443 & 471 (Specs pgs.).
      2. Lou – CL horse power discrepancy(power calculated for 3 full 2 turbine plants as opposed to 3 individual turbines), should be 37.5K SHP assuming 12.5K per turbine, or 39K SHP assuming 13K per turbine. pg 37, last para
      3. James Trickey – Vanilla does not originate in Madagascar, pg. 101
      4. Lou – 260 south latitude (later 26th parallel), pg. 194 2nd para.
      5. Justin – All the holdouts were “S”killed…, pg. 223, 1st para.
      6. Alexey – Leopardo again called Leone (Esploratori) class destroyer. She should correctly be called Leone-class esploratori (destroyer). Or destroyer leader. pg. 477
      7. Matthieu – In the name of the French admiral, last page: Raoul is the correct spelling, not Rauol. pg. 469
      8. Matthieu – Confédération des Etats Souverains (some letters “a” in Confederation missing in the text). pg. 148, 296.
      9. Lou – Haakar-Faask class apparently is VERY well armed with 200 32 lb. cannon. pg.473
      10. Lou – (No comment on whether this is an oversight or omitted for a reason.) MTBs not listed in specifications pages.

  14. By Justin on

    Before anybody forgets, the League understands how air power works too.

    Methinks the Union and Republic may have gotten too used to air superiority; now, not only will actual AA guns be shooting back at them, but the League’s bombers and fighters are going to be a whole lot nastier than Grik zeps.

    Then there’s the Stukas and their infamous Jericho Trumpets. Most of Alden and Rolak’s people are probably seasoned enough to not break (panic, probably)… but Kim’s? If the Allies aren’t ready, the first week might turn into one of the biggest clustershags yet.

    1. By Alexey Shiro on

      Exactly. And, Italian triple-engine bombers actually are much more nasty than they may look like. And it is very dangerous to underestimate French fighters & medium bombers, also.

      1. By Matt on

        The SM.79 is also faster than the latest P1s. As things stand they are potentially immune to interception. That is very very bad for the Union.

        1. By Justin on

          Fleashooters might be able to overtake Ba.64s (with a good tailwind), but a pair of .30s isn’t going to do much more than wreck the paintwork.

          1. By Matt on

            They could catch up easily if they were already at altitude and dived on them however with interceptors the assumption should be that they have to be quickly scrambled and climb to altitude to meet the attackers. The P-1Cs likely can’t do that unless they have early warning from radar.

      2. By Lou Schirmer on

        With the Lemurian’s lower altitude tolerance, the LOT just has to fly at a higher altitude to be immune to interception. Most of their planes should have some sort of O2 system also, which puts them well above what the cats can achieve. Even if they develop an O2 or pressurized air system, without a supercharger, their fighters won’t have any kind of performance at altitude.

  15. By Joe Thorsky on

    The subjective objective in music and books.
    There’s an old wives’ tale and saying that somewhat stipulates that
    “The Road to Hell is paved over by the good intentions of others.”
    I myself have just recently discovered the existence of this much
    well-traveled bumpy thoroughfare while on a sojourn pilgrimage shuttling
    between various VA Medical facilities. It’s quite the Soul Awakening and
    defining trip (My Second), an unforgettable experience whose unanticipated beneficial restorative recuperative powers I do heartily recommend to
    anyone and everyone. All one needs to do in this Hearts and Minds of a restorative recovery and a repair operation is a determined willingness
    to temporarily quarantine one’s (graft)ed addiction to the video camera
    and to the cell phone and take advantage of a once in a lifetime opportunity
    to begin a conversation and actually converse with a fellow Human Being and Vet.
    Note: The best conversation starters I’ve since discovered is a HC Book and a music player (Also highly recommended is having a voice recorder available and at the ready).
    What better cultural verbal icebreaker and conversation starter (other than alcohol) can there ever be than when one is being awkwardly queried by the
    person sitting next to you as you try to finally finish a reading of something like Divine Punishment by Shizuko Natsuki or Dealer’s Choice by Sara Paretsky. This, all the while sametime fumbling and trying to listen to and enjoy some
    very classic Preservation Hall Jazz Band (Not Highway to Hell mp3 by AC/DC)
    on a dying old relic of a Zune player.
    “Whatc’ha listening to, Mac?” or “Whatc’ha reading there, Chief?” Grants (not U.S.) you particular special access and entry into that unique work in progress and that unfinished universe that is the makeup of the person and Vet that just by chance, fate or happenstance is sitting there right alongside you. Replying to
    and explaining an answer opens wide the door.
    Just how else does one discover that there’s a special someone like that; a WWII Navy Vet whose own ship and crew mates had taken part in both the Iwo Jima invasion campaign and in the post war occupation and reconstruction of Japan. Just listening to his matter of fact first hand-first person account and retelling of events, remembrances and memories were positively riveting and
    awe-inspiring to both hear and to marvel over. So unexpectedly uncommon and “historical” of an accounting coming from another almost forgotten member
    of that “Greatest of Generations”.
    This was first person history excitedly being reawakened and rediscovered in real time. An exceptionally awesome and sobering a learning event this was and had turned out to be. A true restorative curative for the soul and possibly maybe? for writer’s block.
    Truth is far more interesting than fiction.

  16. By Lou Schirmer on

    I was thinking there could be a companion series to this one, centered on the Mediterranean Sea theater. Why the LOT didn’t come around & smash the DDmen when they started building up & gathering allies. Taylor could be selling them alternating every six months instead of annually.

    Maybe when the CES fleet came through the squall, another ship or two came with them? Maybe a badly out gunned Renown type BC & a couple of DDs remaining out of a scratch built squadron of the only ships on station when the CES fleet launched. Maybe they were trying to use her speed to get past the CES BBs & hit the invasion transports & ducked through a squall for cover? It’d be interesting if they linked up with a local civilization & started updating them technologically. The Euro civilization would have been more concerned with the Grik in the middle east & Persia, but get hammered by an aggressive LOT & helped out by the Brits & maybe some of Alexey’s countrymen from a Black Sea transfer. The Gentaa may originate in Europe & be the main folks there with whoever has transferred in the past. Might even be a cold weather Grik variant up there… or something completely different (channeling Monty Python).

    More work for Taylor… no rest for the wicked. :)

    1. By Justin on

      Prequels would be nice, but a full book would probably read like a reskinned Into the Storm.

      If anything, it’d probably be an anthology like the Grantville Gazette; one about the European faction (could also be Entente and Turks from Gallipoli, Imperial Russians, and/or Byzantine-era galleys)… one about the Indiamen that settled Hawaii… one about the Republic. Wouldn’t mind seeing the “new” Roman arrivals beating off the Grik, or a time when Melhausen wasn’t senile.

    2. By Alexey Shiro on

      //Why the LOT didn’t come around & smash the DDmen when they started building up & gathering allies//

      Because in that case Leauge would be forced to deal with Griks & Doms by themselves, huh?

      Up until recently, the Alliance activity was, actually, beneficial for League. The Alliance stopped the Grik expansion, limited Grik power and seriously damaged the Dominion. Basically everuthing that they done was in League’s favour, eventually. Only after it became apparent that Alliance would likely won the war in relatively short therms, the League started to interfer.

      P.S. Actually, I wonder; if Alliance started to lose, would League intervent on THEIR side? After all, they definitely did not want Griks to won…

      1. By Generalstarwars333 on

        They probably would intervene on the side of the allies. Given a choice between a bunch of relatively advanced, industrialized people led by rational beings and a genocidal industrialized empire whose sole goal is to eat all the things(now with guns), I think they’d choose the guys who are rational. Would the destroyermen accept their help? In the end, I think yes. Would there be lots of grumbling? Yes. Would it be acceptable in the face of being eaten alive? Yes.

  17. By Charles Simpson on

    Contest Rules as posted on Taylor’s Facebook page:

    I figured I’d announce this now, to give entries plenty of time to prepare. Prizes will be signed and highly prized :) Advanced Reader’s Copies of RIVER OF BONES! I will ask for enough of these for 1st and 2nd place for each category, but can’t promise that I’ll get them. If not, signed hardcovers will be substituted, (Winners can choose a hardcover if they prefer).


    MODELS: The pics of models people send are always popular. Entries must be kit or scratch-built, and can be of anything in the Series: ships, planes, dioramas, (even people, for you sculptors). Winners will be judged on quality/originality/visual appeal/ and “authenticity” to the series.

    ART: Drawings, paintings, (by hand or computer), and photos*. These must all be original works created by contestants. Please no screen-shots or other copyrighted material. Judging will be based on the same criteria as above.
    *NOTE–D-Men CosPlay seems to be gaining steam (I’ve seen some really good costumes, people even dressed as Lemurians!) Pictures of you in D-Men inspired costumes will be entered in the ART category.

    Send all photos of your submissions to [email protected]
    I’m looking forward to seeing what you come up with!

    P.S. I will also be supporting a Fan Fic contest over on the Destroyermen Fan Association page. Sadly, I can’t read those submissions, so you’ll have to send them there, through their process, but the same prizes will be available.
    Have fun!

    1. By Charles Simpson on

      * * * Fan Fiction Contest #2 * * *

      Prize autographed hardback of the next book ‘River of Bones’. Dead line for submission July 9, 2018. Length suit yourself some where between 10 and 25 pages would be nice, but can be as large a file as Facebook will accept as a PDF. Please put the words DESTROYERMEN FAN-FICTION CONTEST ENTRY as the first line. above the title, The winner will be chosen by a poll Depending on the number of entries the Association Leadership will select their favorite four stories for the poll voting.

      To keep our favorite author out of legal hassles write one of the two types of stories below

      1) Write something with established circumstances as a backdrop, but from another perspective. Just some grunt in the trenches around Baalkpan or a pilot in Tikker’s 1st Air wing when they’re trying to bash the Grik dreadnoughts when they first show up. Or a Dom crew member on Matarife. Or maybe some Maroon “cap’n” who doesn’t think working with Chack and the Allies is a good idea. Or one of the Erokis running from the Super lizard MTB7 torpedoes in the Mangoro river. etc.

      2) Write a back story using one of Taylor’s dead characters . 110 possibilities to choose from, Like sword and swashbuckling Haaker Faask is available, like the navy many of Walker’s original crew have died. see:

      Taylor Anderson will not read any of the Fan Fictions not even the winner of this or other Fan Fiction Contests. DO NOT SEND ANY FAN-FICTION TO TAYLOR ANDERSON HE WON’T READ OR FORWARD THEM!!!.

      Post entries on our Fan fiction page, Link:

        1. By donald j johnson on

          well you could always write it in French and then we won’t be able to tell where the typos are 😉 I wonder how good Taylor’s French is?

          1. By Charles Simpson on

            Or write in French and translate it into English. There is nothing in the rules specifying English so you could use French how many of us can read French might lower your readership, but then there is Google Translate. Just for fun Google Translate English to French:

            Ou écrivez en français et traduisez-le en anglais. Il n’y a rien dans les règles qui spécifie l’anglais, alors vous pouvez utiliser le français. Combien d’entre nous peuvent lire le français pourrait réduire votre lectorat, mais il y a aussi Google Traduction. Juste pour s’amuser Google Translate anglais vers le français:

            Or write in French and translate it into English. There is nothing in the rules that specifies English, so you can use French. How many of us can read French could reduce your readership, but there is also Google Translate. Just for fun Google Translate English to French:

            Donald, Taylor does not read our Fan Fiction, he is just providing prizes for the Association’s contest.

            Now back to English:

          2. By Steve Moore on

            Better still, introduce a new set of characters coming down the Mississippi from a Canada where Montcalm kicked the crap out of Wolfe and sent him packing.

  18. By Justin on

    So how is the Treaty of Sofesshk going to work?

    Do the Republic and Union split the Empire among themselves, or do they prop up the CM under a client kingdom, or create a republic, or let it fall into civil war? Does anybody get tried for war crimes? Are reparations on the table? Will Lawrence finally get paired off after nine books?

    1. By Jeff on

      Well, I guess they have to beat them first. I’d like to see slavering hordes of Grik turn on the League’s holdings in North Africa. They were aware of the Republic but I don’t recall any mention of ‘other hunters’ up north. Curious blank spot there.

    1. By Charles Simpson on

      Since we are supposed to guess who the characters are, mine is Adar, “Becky” Rebeca Ann McDonald, and Tassanna-Ay-Arracca.

    2. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

      That’s awesome. I love the attention to detail even to the extent of tarnished copper fittings.

    3. By Nestor on

      Thanks to all for the kind words! I figured that folks in these forums would welcome my ideas on Mi-anaaka art and culture. I’d like to imagine ‘Cats as belonging to a rich and vibrant civilization.

    4. By Steve Moore on

      Nicely done, Nestor, including the vibrant colors. But don’t you think Becky looks, well, a little mature for 13?

      1. By Nestor on

        Thanks! I thought about that, but so it happens my first sketches of her were as a 15 yr old Governor-Empress in full uniform regalia. Even though the time period in this pic was two years earlier I chose not to change her appearance too much in comparison. I wanted her look to reflect her relative mental maturity more than her physical age. Does this make sense?

        1. By Steve Moore on

          Well, just don’t be giving Taylor’s cover art guys any ideas. We’re still trying to get used to the invisible gun crews and mid-ocean Grikbirds.

          1. By Nestor on

            Heh! Lucky for me cover artists just do what the art director tells them to and neither them or the editors in your typical fiction imprint will be much interested in character conceptualization (I used to work for a book publisher). So I just take advantage of that and fill in the voids. 😉

          2. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            Yeah. Just think how fortunate it is that I sometimes get a LITTLE input. My editor generally asks for ideas, which she passes along, (along with ship pics etc. that I send) and sometimes the gist is pretty much what I suggested. The art dept. does not READ the books however, so they often goof up the context or throw weird stuff in on their own hook. Once in a great while I can get them to tweak little things. Goofiest example ever? Landing gear on the crashing Nancy on the cover of Rising Tides. This after I sent them the pic of the Nancy and there was, of course, no landing gear on it. Yep. I finally got them to remove the main gear–but the tail wheel still exists!!! Just as bad was the battle over Walker’s battle flag on the cover of Devil’s Due. (Forget about getting them to add battles on the stripes, but the original was a 50 star flag….. I threw a fit, of course, and their attitude was “who will notice?” Really??? I sent back that only almost ALL of those who follow the series would instantly notice, and mock the hell out of it. Oh well, as I’ve said before, I have to pick my battles–and at least the covers do vaguely reflect the series and they’re not just some generic ship doing whatever strikes the artist as a good idea. In that sense, I can’t think of any other author’s covers that “taste” so close(other than Dominic Sapporo’s SFBC covers)–if that makes sense? Ghost crews and all.

          3. By Nestor on

            We had a romance imprint that was a very efficient conveyor belt churning out romance titles. Whenever they worked with titles by high profile romance authors more often than not they’ll contract this artist who was obviously obsessed with Fabio. So if you didn’t look closely at the name of the author in the covers you’d assume we were publishing a whole extended series of books about some smug-faced, shirtless, long-haired blond dude in spandex.

          4. By Matt on

            It could be worse. One of Turtledove’s books, I think Days of Infamy depicted Japanese zeros attacking Arleigh Burke class destroyers on the cover. Another one I remember was the Lost Fleet series which is a sci-fi series about a human galactic scale war. Each of the books depicted the main character in power armor holding a plasma rifle or some related pose. Which is fine except the main character was a ship captain. And unlike Reddy never once participated in ground conflict. It was so consistently silly that the author made fun of it in the story. So at least your artists haven’t completely lost it. Seeing the USS Enterprise in all her glory fight mega shark and giant octopus on the cover would be pretty hilarious though.

          5. By Justin on

            Worth noted is that Mr. Anderson, Jack Campbell AND Harry Turtledove are published by Ace Books… meaning that it’s the same art department over and over again. Heads need to roll, methinks.

            //Seeing the USS Enterprise in all her glory fight mega shark and giant octopus on the cover would be pretty hilarious though.//

            As stupidly funny as that sounds, I for one wouldn’t mind an encounter with a Megalodon or a tribe of sapient kraken. Maybe Garrett and the NUS could plan Lusca ambushes on unsuspecting Dommie frigates?

          6. By donald j johnson on

            I suspect The Publishers would complain but I think that we need to hold a cover contest for taylor. then we might have covers that are more realistic.

  19. By Joe Thorsky on

    Colleagues, Friends- Taylor
    As we try to remember, commemorate and honor ALL who’ve answered the
    Call and gave service on this Armistice Day, This Veteran’s Day of 2017. The
    long ago and almost forgotten written words from that Greatest Veteran of
    them All comes to mind to gently, solemnly and lovingly remind each one of
    us of the solemn responsibilities and duties of citizenship and of our honor
    charge to freely and faithfully nurture and maintain its continued survival.
    From G. Washington
    In a letter to the Governors of the Several States
    (Articles of Confederation) , June 1783

    “I now make it my earnest prayer that God would have you, and the
    State over which you preside, in His holy protection; that He would incline
    the hearts of the citizens to cultivate a spirit of subordination and obedience
    to government; to entertain a brotherly affection and love for one another, for
    Their fellow citizens of the United States at large, and particularly for their
    brethren who have served in the field; and, finally, that He would most graciously be pleased to dispose us all to do justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that charity, humility, and pacific temper of mind, which were the characteristics
    Of the Divine Author of our blessed religion, and without an humble imitation of
    Of Whose example in these things we can never hope to be a happy Nation”

    Today is the day to once again commit, reaffirm and honor our oaths taken both
    as citizens and as Veterans.
    I hear a call – mp3 Emmy Lou Harris
    Shut out the Light mp3 Bruce Springsteen
    Unknown Soldier mp3 Jeff Moore
    APO San Francisco mp3 Jessie Nighthawk
    I Ain’t Here Alone mp3 Michael J Martin
    Don Quixote mp3 Gordon Lightfoot
    The Bold Fenian Men mp3 Derick Warfield

    Destroyermen Specials
    Destroyer Life mp3 Oscar Brand
    Steam Torpedo mp3 Oscar Brand
    In Flight Refueling mp3 Oscar Brand
    Air Force Ground Crew mp3 Oscar Brand
    Flirting With Disaster mp3 Bruce Willis

    Continued good fortune happiness and best wishes
    to all.-Joe

    1. By Matt White on

      Well said Joe.

      Today I remember my friend Captain Matthew Roland USAF. KIA August 2015. One day I’ll see you in Valhalla.

      Regardless if you agree with the actions of our nation, we can’t diminish the sacrifice of those who put their lives on the line for our nation. Be they still with us or on some old battlefield, their commitment reflects the best of what we have to offer.

      1. By Joe Thorsky on


        Combating complacency, apathy, disinterest, indifference, and
        despondency just doesn’t end with an armistice, a cease-fire or
        a one sided cessation of hostilities. Veterans not just of our era
        also short changed both at home and abroad still continue to fight
        against these assembled unrelenting intractable enemies and foes
        of Man.
        Comes an Incomplete Answer of Sorts as to the Why:

        “I think you preach the Law as other men
        do the Gospel.” “I can hear you now as plainly
        as if I were (back) in your study.”
        “My Son; a few Law books are all that stand
        between Man and the Animal world.”
        “His dignity, his religion, his very life (and existence)
        are only allowed by what is written there.”…
        “Very well, Father.”
        “And how did these things come to be written there?”
        “They were no Free Gift.”
        “They were fought and bled for a line at a time and at
        such a (reckoning of) cost that if our imaginations could
        only see it, we would recoil and fall back in horror!”……
        A Citation and Excerpts from “The Big Hangover” 1950

        Forgotten Man mp3 Chris Noel
        Some Gave All mp3 Billy Ray Cyrus
        Another Long Night mp3 Mark Wasckieicz-Lea Jones

        It’s also all about “32 Cents Postage Due” Album (A rarity)
        -Arlo Gutherie and The Dillards
        SHIP IN THE SKY (My Daddy) mp3
        Grand Coulee Dam mp3
        The Sinking of the Reuben James mp3
        The Ranger’s Command mp3

        A Destroyermen Inquiry
        Could advance elements from The League of Tripoli
        have encountered and been pyrically engaged with transported
        elements/remnants from Napoleon’s and Nelson’s Lost Army/Navy
        (aka Battle of the Pyramids and The Battle of the Nile aka Aboukir Bay).
        Especially troubling to the League and an almost forgotten legacy of
        Bonaparte’s Egyptian campaign could be the 500 scientists that were
        originally brought on the Egyptian campaign to record Egypt’s past
        and present after Embabeh.
        Just what advances in military technology has gotten The LOT so
        terribly spooked and fearful?
        Believer mp3 – Imagine Dragons
        The Lost Battalion mp3 Sabaton
        Wolfpack mp3 -Sabaton Primo Victoria (Re-Armed)
        Metal Machine mp3 Sabaton Primo Victoria (Re-Armed)

  20. By Justin on

    Speaking of the Republic, there’s repeated mention of the protagonists being shocked by tenth-century Romans in charge.
    They’re probably actual Romans rather than Byzantines (who’d be shocked then? Everybody knows the Byzantines were around in 900 AD)… so how would the Empire last that long?

    Theory #1: Caesar gets exiled to Parthia instead of Gaul and wins his glory there instead.
    An envious Crassus invades Gaul and dies spectacularly when Vercingetorix unifies the tribes, becomes king and wipes out the Romans. The Gallic confederation continues to repel Rome until the Germanic tribes come along; both factions quickly sign a truce and successfully hold off the invaders for the next few centuries.

    So Roman Persia instead of Roman Britain, and a unified Gaul. A larger presence in the east also explains how they got to South Africa.

    1. By Lou Schirmer on

      Theory #2: Caesar survives his attempted assassination & goes on to expand the empire. He also realizes the senate needs some say or there might be a more successful attempt to kill him, so he rationalizes the organization of the government, providing the senate some power & establishing a process for the succession to power when he’s dead. This stabilizes the empire for a long enough time to integrate the Goths & Huns into the empire as citizens instead of pissing them off.

      1. By Darrell on

        Byzantines never considered themselves as such, that name came along in more recent times. They would have considered themselves still Romans of the continuation of the Roman Empire.

  21. By Joe Thorsky on

    Taylor Colleagues and Friends:
    It’s Been a while and have generally been very circumspect and careful lately wanting to make absolutely positively sure today is not September 31.

    Prankfully Speaking!!!
    Here’s A Foreign Policy “TRICK or Treat” for everyone to per(use) and ponder over!
    “If September 2017 was a month of extremes ranging
    from H-bombs and Hurricanes to the Hypocrite and the Hippocratic
    It only logically follows that October must be the month of the
    ” October Surprise”.
    If I was a paid conspiracy theorist and knowing
    that a Chinese American Summit on North Korea was imminent.
    I probably would be gazing skywards for my answer. Is it more than just mere coincidence that an “Out of Control” Chinese Spacelab will be entering Earth’s atmosphere around this time. And on just whose head and where do you think those multiple tons of falling Space debris will finally land on? Is someone we know seriously contemplating aSaving Face gesture by neutralizing an uncontrollable rogue underling/player as a forceful demonstration of power and capability in the here and now?”
    Any wagers in spite of plausible deniability anyone?

    Just A reminder to all; wasn’t it Ben Franklin who once said:
    “We must all hang together or assuredly we will hang separately”
    And WHO was it again who NUKED The Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty out of relevancy and existence?
    Needed now maybe is a meaningful crisis management response mechanism that will greatly expand the reaction counteraction time
    in decision-making. Just what kind of a reconfigured and reconstituted modernized nuclear and nonnuclear military does there need to be is the ultimate unanswered question if there is going to be time enough to prepare for this new cowardly world of the WMD….
    Any thoughts or proposals?
    Outside of (Pandora’s) Box Thinking seems to be in order now.

    1. By Alexey Shiro on

      //I probably would be gazing skywards for my answer. Is it more than just mere coincidence that an “Out of Control” Chinese Spacelab will be entering Earth’s atmosphere around this time. And on just whose head and where do you think those multiple tons of falling Space debris will finally land on? //

      Please. The Tiangong-1 have a mass of barely 9 tonn. She is nearly ten times less massive than NASA own Skylab that hit Australia in 1970s.

      1. By Joe Thorsky on

        PRANKFULLY Speaking Alexey of Course.
        As accompanied by Monster Mash mp3

    1. By Lou Schirmer on

      Cool cover. Thirteen months from DD we get the 13th book. Will the 14th be 14 months away? 😉

    2. By Justin on

      Goddamn, that looks like a movie poster! Hope the rest get the same kind of budget.

      “With Walker out of commission for repairs, Reddy takes command of a different ship…”
      Let’s see – Mahan and Savoie need repairs, Ellis and Gray are taken… that leaves one of the two new DDs leaving the shipyards.

      1. By Clifton Sutherland on

        Best Cover yet, other than perhaps the combination edition covers! Still waiting for the companion art book to come out :).

        Looks like combat in some African Rivers. Im already imagining an African Queen Scenario, with Silva at the helm

    3. By Justin on

      So we’ve got Catalina, a Walker-class DD, what looks like a downed Macchischmidt, and one of Gustave’s ancestors. Let the guesses begin!

    4. By Jeff on

      Very interesting. If that cover is depicting Santa Catalina I couldn’t help but wonder when that engraved SAA and it’s ‘last 50 rounds’ of ammo will make its appearance.

      If it does I hope it prematurely ends a bad-guy soliloquy

        1. By Jeff on

          Never ceases to amaze me when you catch someone paying attention – and when they do it always seems to be on something you’d rather they didn’t. Very slick cover.

          I was thinking that the big croc might be another one of the Big-Mother-Things that the amphibious Grik had where they found Santy Cat in the first place.

          So they’re up the river for sure and probably don’t have any paddles. Can’t wait.

          1. By Lou Schirmer on

            One thing to think about is the amphibious Grik were intelligent & the Big-Mothers were one of them, so they should be intelligent also. (troubling thought of something that big & toothy with brains, brraaaiiinssss!) With the big one dead, there might be SEVERAL contenders growing up & fighting it out to take her place. Maybe one of the Union folk organized an expedition to try & recruit some of the smaller ones for a UDT special-ops unit & encountered one or more of the new larger ones & managed to fast talk themselves out of being eaten. They could have worked a deal for getting one or more of the growing Big-Mothers a new territory for herself & some of her smaller relatives. Say up the Zambesi. :)

        2. By Steve Moore on

          Well, you’ve got my vote for contributing to the improvement of the cover art.

  22. By Justin on

    Regarding the cruiser/battlecruiser naming confusion, I suspect that the Japanese personnel (Miyata, Fukui, etc) might jump in and suggest going with mountains (Amagi, Kongo) and rivers (Tone, Mogami).

    Come to think of it, we know more about Grik geography – if only from battle maps – than we do about anyone else’s. What’s the Republic’s name for Table Mountain, for example?

  23. By William Cress on

    I have greatly enjoyed these books and am looking forward to the next one!
    I noticed the use of the drawing of the USS Dahlgren. The logs of the USS Phenakite show the Airsubex exercises with USS Phenakite, USS Dahlgren and SC658 and the blimp.
    Later in the war they all went out after U134. The blimp attacked to break up the torpedo attack setup by the U boat and was shot down but managed to damage the U boat. USS Dahlgren and SC658 picked up the survivors.
    The Phenakite is a mess but is presently hiding in Taylor’s Creek. Her captain is very elderly but we chat from time to time. Apparently he trained my father, a destroyer man, in WW2.

  24. By Alexey Shiro on

    IMHO, the only anti-tank aircraft weapon that Alliance could realistically deploy in foreceable future – some analogue of Soviet PTAB. Small, 1.5-3 kg, shaped-charge submunition, deployed by cassetes. Basically, shaped-charge flechettes)

    1. By Lou Schirmer on

      They could also go with a cluster bomb or cassette deployed land mine. It would partially bury & arm on impact. Ideally it would have a magnetic trigger, but they probably can’t pull that off in miniature numbers yet, so would probably have to go with a pressure trigger. Drop them on or in the path of a tank formation.

      1. By Generalstarwars333 on

        Or just use those bombs made from 4″50 armor piercing shells. If they can get through parts of the armor on a Grik dreadnaught, I’m sure they can get through the top armor of a light tank. If they’ve got an AA machine gun mount, that could pose problems, but those were only common on american designs at the time.

      2. By Alexey Shiro on

        //They could also go with a cluster bomb or cassette deployed land mine. It would partially bury & arm on impact.//

        Er, how much of them would average Union plane carry? One? Two? The anti-tanki mines are heavy, and you need to drop them more or less precisely and without turning them into metal pankakes with some filler laying around.

        Also, they aren’t especially good unless dropped in sand or snow. Mine, layin on the ground is NOT a good idea.

        And, to be precise – italians invented it before World War II. So, the KNEW how to do that and how to counter that.

        //Or just use those bombs made from 4″50 armor piercing shells. If they can get through parts of the armor on a Grik dreadnaught, I’m sure they can get through the top armor of a light tank. If they’ve got an AA machine gun mount, that could pose problems, but those were only common on american designs at the time.//

        Yes, they potentially… but the hit probability is next thing to zero. Tanks are small targets. To hit hte tank with heavy aerial bomb is… problematic.

        And, 4-inch AP shell would not make a good AP bomb. Again; the difference in velocity is too big.

    2. By Steve Moore on

      I don’t think they have a logistics capacity to follow such a scattershot technique. Better, I think, to have something with at least a fairly sure chance of hitting, such as a auto-cannon. And the less specialized the weapon, the more types of targets it can be used against. JMHO

      1. By Alexey Shiro on

        Statistically, the AC’s were the least effective of IL-2 anti-tank weaponry…

  25. By Generalstarwars333 on

    Okay, so I’ve got an idea to take out league armor. According to Steve James, a flechette can hit with the force of a .50 BMG round when air dropped. A .50 BMG round can penetrate something like 22mm of armor. Sooooo…. drop flechettes on league armor en masse, and leave the insides of their tanks a bloody ruin.

    1. By Justin on

      Still need a cluster bomb for delivery. Free-dropping means that many of them are going to hit the turret roof/s at a weird angle and bounce right off.

    2. By Alexey Shiro on

      One small problem. The League AA machineguns would tear apart all Union planes long before they score even ONE hit.

      Moreover, do you think it is so easy to penetrate tank with flechette?

      First of all, it required sufficient altitude for drop. And dispersion pattern became wider and less predictable with altitude.

      Secondly, the speed of flechette would be SUBSONIC, not supersonic. Which means, that it would have only a fraction of .50 BMG round penetration ability. As far as I knew, .50 BMG round could penetrate 22 mm of armor only on relatively small distance, when the speed of bullet is still very high.

      Thirdly, the angle of impact would be hardly optimal. Flechette isn’t especially stable in air.

      In short – the idea would not work. At all.

      1. By Alexey Shiro on

        Seriously, guys, do you think tanks would be a problem if you could destroy them just by dropping flechettes?

        It is completely unworkable solution.

        1. By Justin on

          Again, hence the need for a cluster bomb. The CBU-97, for example, disperses shaped-charge munitions that effectively “shotgun” the unlucky tank/s through the turret roof.

          Clearly the Allies will not develop a CBU within this decade, I’m just explaining that Lazy Dogs could work, given the right payload.

          1. By Lou Schirmer on

            Could still work in the initial anti-personnel role against the Grik or Doms. Just pour buckets of the things out of Cantets & Nancys while flying over formations of the enemy, raining “Pennies from heaven” on them. It’d be a very demoralizing event.

          2. By Justin on

            Sure, but free-dropping depends on how big the group of Grik/Dommies is – you’re basically trying to hit targets the size of watermelons from a high-rise. With a bomb, even a near-miss will ruin somebody’s day.

          3. By Lou Schirmer on

            Right, you wouldn’t be dropping these on a few random Griks/Doms, but formations, or a very large, tightly packed watermelon patch with a few hundred LDogs per bucket or bag you empty out of several planes/high-rises at once. If they carried a barrel of them up per plane, with a pull cord to pop the lid open at an appropriate moment, they could drop tens of thousands of these things on an unsuspecting, but well deserving enemy.

          4. By Justin on

            Sure, but since there’s likely going to be a jungle in the way, how thick is this horde going to be, and how many flechettes are going to actually hit an Uul/Dommie without a cluster bomb to penetrate the canopy and direct the spread?

            Just seems that something like napalm or daisy cutters would work better in a jungle or in No Man’s Land.

          5. By William Curry on

            They had cluster bomb units in WWII, at least in the US. The separation of the cluster was initiated by a 38 Special Cluster Bomb Cartridge M6 which fired a 152 grain steel bullet down a barrel to cut the cables holding the cluster together. This round was used with Bomb Clusters M1, M2 and T2. There was also a cluster bomb cartridge M7 which had a delay of either 3.5 or 7.5 seconds which was used with the Bomb Cluster M3. This was to allow the bomb to fall a further distance from the aircraft before opening. These cartridges were produced by Winchester with either a WRA or WCC headstamp. See Hackley et al: “History of Modern US Military Small Arms Ammunition, Vol. II” page 7 After 1944 a different opening technique was used that didn’t require this cartridge.

          6. By Lou Schirmer on

            //Just seems that something like napalm or daisy cutters would work better in a jungle or in No Man’s Land.//

            Daisy cutters are a bit too big for them right now. The PB-5D can carry 2,500 lbs. of ordnance. A daisy cutter is six times that & would have to be carried centrally on the aircraft. They used to drop them out the back of the C-130 cargo bay. Your other option (napalm) is probably the way to go, although the Lazy Dog flechettes were dropped over the jungles in Vietnam because they could penetrate the foliage & the Vietcong weren’t dense targets either.

          7. By Lou Schirmer on

            Thinking about it, if the Union improved on the Grik zeppelin design, it might be an ideal platform for carrying large ordnance like a daisy cutter.

          8. By donald j johnson on

            Dropping a daisy cutter would most lilely either nreak the back of any zep or else throw it up into the stratusphere. They do weicg between 12000 and 25000 lbs. Dirgables are much better at dropping much smaller stuff a bit at a time.

          9. By Steve Moore on

            Well, do like the ‘Black Cat’ PBY’s did in the South Pacific for airfield raids; put an extender fuse on the nose of a bomb (or case shot, fins on the back). It explodes when the extension hits the ground and the payload is still above ground. Read that in a book somewhere, but a quick Gargle didn’t find any pictures.

          10. By Clifton Sutherland on

            I’m thinking the current gasoline bombs should do the trick. Those hitting a tank would be the equivalent of a humongous molotov cocktail- destroying the air intakes, setting off any external fuel tanks, possibly internal ones, and, if any hatches were open….cooking the crew. They have them, they know how to use them, and they would be effective enough that, if suddenly in a battle they encounter armor for the first time, they could be readily used to effect.

          11. By Alexey Shiro on

            //I’m thinking the current gasoline bombs should do the trick. //

            If it hit directly – it may. Problem is, that to hit directly such weapon must be employed from VERY low altitude, and against machineguns it would be just suicide for current Alliance aircrafts.

      2. By Lou Schirmer on

        True. The Lazy Dog flechette was primarily used against infantry, although a lath turned 1/2 oz. steel projectile moving between 400-500 mph (depending on altitude & speed when dropped) will penetrate some thin armor. However, it wasn’t really accurate enough, & impact angles usually weren’t optimum for anti-armor use & it stayed an anti-personnel weapon in WW2, Korea & Vietnam. Probably stayed in use because it was so cheap & easy to employ.

      3. By Alexey Shiro on

        To be frank, I doubt that the Alliance currently could produce more or less effective aerial anti-tank weapon. Rockets? They haven’t got any theory of combat-effective rocketry, and what they could build would certainly have too low accuracy to hit the tank with cost-effective probability.

        Heavy machineguns and autocannons? It is good when you have all-metal, durable planes – like Il-2 or “Thunderbolt”, who could make attack runs through the enemy tactical AA fire. If the best thing you have is the fabric-covered planes, you may be able to make a run, but the most probable result would be loud “CRASH!” of your plane.

        Cluster munition? Required sub-munitions that could punch at least through a relatively thin armor. I.e. something like Soviet light PTAB shaped-charge bombs. This, probably, is the closest possible solution… problem is, that their knowlege about shaped charges is quite limited, and while PTAB were pretty easy to build, they required a lot of calculation to DESIGN.

    3. By Steve Moore on

      Why not just go with Lou’s pusher attack design, with one of Savoie’s HMG’s (13.4mm?) up front, a la IL-2? That would be good against all manner of targets, as well as providing a reason to develop something between the .50 BMG and the 25mm? Or hang a couple of 25mm off the hardpoints of the remaining P-40’s for now? Yeah, there are only a couple, but it’d be good training for a cadre of armor-busters.

      Napalm would work on 30’s era tanks, not as well sealed up.

      1. By Steve Moore on

        I’ve been biting my tongue to not utter the ‘R-word’. Good thing the babe photos have been popping up again on any search for ‘Taylor Anderson’, that’s a bit of a distraction…

      2. By Matt White on

        Is the 13.4 really that much different from the 50BMG in performance? I don’t think it is enough to warrant mass producing them. Also isn’t it a mag fed gun? That is going to make them less useful in aircraft where you have to land to reload. Belts allow for more ammunition because they are flexible so you can get creative with how you stuff them in.

        1. By Generalstarwars333 on

          It seems like the M2 has a higher muzzle velocity and a higher practical rate of fire from being belt fed, and the allies are already geared up to make M2s, so they might as well stick with the .50’s.

        2. By Steve Moore on

          dunno. Just thinking out sideways while my lunch was nuking. M2’s would probably do the trick, because I don’t think there will be too many tanks that can make the distance, because of Matthieu’s favorite limitation… logistics. And like with ships, you destroy the thin-skinned transport vehicles, and your weapons systems are reduced to camel power. Remember they’re 2500 miles away.

          Can we switch to something that Taylor will be writing about before 2020? What will it take to get Muriname to switch, since Reddy now has the Japanese freq’s and needs to get them to fly back to Zanzibar while it’s still viable. Can they mine the Zambezi? How about mixing in some caltrops with the firebombs over Sofesshk, to put a crimp in firefighting? And dammit, when is Pepper going to become… Dr Pepper?

          1. By Justin on

            Muriname’ll probably give up once he’s out of planes… or if he gets talking with the CM to pull the rug out from under Esshk.

            Caltrops and mines (unfortunately) are defensive weapons. In the spirit of “don’t sh*t where you eat,” it’s a bad idea to booby trap an area you’re about to advance into.

          2. By Steve Moore on

            By the time the Allies get to Sofesshk, I’m hoping most of those caltrops are going to be stuck in the feet of Grik firemen (thus reducing their numbers) or picked up by grumbling Uul because they’re in the way of some pointy-headed Hij.

      3. By Justin on

        Keep in mind that 1″ = 25.4mm, so .50 cal = 12.7mm. French 13.4 MGs aren’t much of an upgrade.

        And that’s assuming they can even hurt a tank; OTL, Rudel’s Stuka needed a pair of 37mms for tank hunting. The Japanese autocannons, maybe, if they can get the angle right, but MG rounds are going to bounce off anything short of a Carro Veloce (which anything can penetrate).

        1. By Generalstarwars333 on

          Yes, the Stukas used 37’s, but that was against T-34s and probably KV-1s, either of which could kill anything the league has without breaking a sweat. In OTL 1939, anti-tank rifles were still considered a viable means of killing tanks. Since a lot of anti-tank rifles fired rounds about the same size as a .50 BMG, and they were intended to penetrate the sides of a tank, not the much thinner top armor, a .50 cal could probably be used as a tank-buster weapon against the lighter tanks until the allies get a plane capable of carrying a 25mm.

          1. By Justin on

            – Early war tanks actually had all-around protection and a turret roof of 20mm armour; it’s later in the war that the various factions bolted on more armour at the front, which is where the “hit the sides” tactic comes from.
            – Remember that size isn’t everything; for example, the Boys used .50 that was modified to pierce armour, rather than standard BMG.
            – Even then, the rifles were pretty short-ranged; the Boys was only able to nail 23mm at 100 yards and 19mm at 500 yards… at 90°. With all respect to Lemurian flying skills, I doubt our attack aircraft will manage that kind of dive without crashing.

            Try a penetration table:
            Really, if it were that easy to kill a tank with a machine gun, they wouldn’t have needed AT rifles, and the war would’ve been over by 1940!

        2. By Alexey Shiro on

          Justin, exactly. And French tanks were almost universally-immune to AT rifles and heavy machineguns. Too thick armor even on light ones.

          1. By Justin on

            Thanks. Think I owe Matt an apology though – if 37mm guns can pen a T-34 or KV-1, then a Stuart’s 37mm should be able to nab an S35 just fine (from the right angle, of course).

          2. By Alexey Shiro on

            Well, German Pak 35/36 was generally… useless against S-35 or T-34 on almost all – with the exception of extremely favourable – engagement conditions. So, IMHO, 37-mm guns that Alliance could realistically build and deploy would not penetrate S-35 and would have problems with penetrating H35 too.

          3. By Matt White on

            Don’t worry about it Justin. One thing to keep in mind is that caliber is only one consideration when talking about the guns performance. Ammunition and shell velocity are also important assuming you aren’t using HEAT.

            If we assume the league will have similar French tanks to what we have IRL, which I don’t think is necessarily true, then yes they are going to be well armored and tough nuts to crack but also have other weaknesses. Except for the S35 and B1 most French tanks in 1939 had low velocity 37mm SA18 guns. Aka the gun used in the Renault FT. Not a great anti armor weapon. I think the H35 would have a hard time penetrating it’s own armor. They are also for the most part slow, although by 30s standards not notably. But the biggest issue is the French obsession with the one man turret. Combat experience in WW2 taught us that a 3 man turret is better than the common 2 man turret but the one man is easily the worst. The commander also has to load and fire the gun. Normally a commander has his hands full commanding but add in the other two jobs and it’s not surprising that the French tanks fared so poorly in spite of their superior guns and armor. Such an overworked man is going to have poor situational awareness and be slow to react.

            That is something that can be tactically exploited to good effect.

            As for guns the union will need to develop a home grown AT cannon. Nothing they have will work well. It will either be ineffective or is so large to be impractical. A derby gun would make a decent stop gap if it was used for smashing fortifications but it won’t do shit for killing tanks aside from ringing the crew’s bell.

          4. By Justin on

            As howitzers, more like; an anti-tank gun that can’t “anti” a tank is basically useless.

            Besides, artillery fire will kill tanks just as easily.

          5. By Matt on

            Not as AT. More in the use that the original 1st gen WW1 tanks had. Howitzers used as direct fire anti fortification weapons and MGs for anti infantry. In reality the Union doesn’t need to worry about a good AT weapon right now because any possible ground engagement with the League is going to be off in the future. Making more of their British landship style tanks to roll over the Grik is more important. It will also aide in maturing the technology. You can’t start with a Sherman. Remember, the tanks deployed in Zanzibar were prototypes and only a handful. Their good results will likely have Chack asking for more and we may see the start of real tank units but this can’t happen over night. A proper AT cannon will take a few years to develop most likely. Spend the meantime developing the rest of the tank and using them to break trenches.

          6. By Charles Simpson on

            Basically the only way we may see League tanks in battle in the near future is if they send some to help the Holy Dominion.

            One thing not mentioned is the short life of tracks on tanks, Even if they wished to help the Grik any tanks sent on such a long road march would have worn treads turning them into a stationary steel pillbox.

          7. By Generalstarwars333 on

            Would there be any chance of them having tanks with christie suspension? If they do, then they could just remove the tracks and drive them like cars. They probably don’t since the two countries that used it at the time were pretty much limited to Britain and the USSR, but it’s still a possibility, albeit a small one.

          8. By Justin on

            Remember that tracks can traverse mud, trenches and other rough terrain that tanks will encounter. Wheels, not so much.

          9. By Alexey Shiro on

            Cristie idea of tank, capable om making cross-country runs on wheels and use tracks only in combat was, basically, an attempt to save the tracks. Up unitl the late 1930s, the service life of tank track was pretty low. It worn out quickly, which made long-range cross-country runs a Really Bad Idea for tanks.

            Different countries have different ways to solve the problem. France, for example, just produced a large number of tank-carrying trailers to carry tank near the frontline. USSR (due to the utter lack of heavy trucks) was forced to adopt Cristie solution – tank, that could run on its wheels while on road and put on tracks only near frontline.

    1. By Generalstarwars333 on

      oooooh… I like this idea. I like it a lot. Even if they get lodged into the ground when they fall, they’ll likely have a least one point poking out of the ground….. I bet if you had one end weighted and with a point, and the other ends as blades/fins, you could air drop them. If you dropped them on troops, the weighted tip would be pointing downwards and the fins/blades would stabilize it. If you use them for area denial, the bladed fins would stick up and make for nasty surprises for anyone going through the area.

      1. By Lou Schirmer on

        Don’t need to have a weighted end, caltrops are designed so no matter how they land, one point is always sticking up. Or are you thinking of making it an impact weapon like Steven James’ “Lazy Dog” flechette, when air dropped?

        Either way, caltrops are a marvelous idea. Simple & cheap to manufacture in quantity. You can even make larger types to foul or jam tank treads & tear up vehicle tires if the LOT gets froggy.

        1. By Clifton Sutherland on

          General is on to something- something like a less insidious version of cluster munitions- capable of killing the enemy by virtue of dropping thousands of spikey bits of metal on their heads, and also denying an easy advance, especially for shoeless Grik. I wonder if caltrops, with their irregular shape and more drag, would still be as deadly in free fall compared to flechettes? I would imagine so.

          1. By Steve Moore on

            It’s a one-way weapon… Lemurians go shoeless as well, then you have cavalry & draft mounts of all species. You’d have to be careful where they’re dropped… like over Soffesshk along with the incendiaries? That way you’d increase the annoyance factor for the grumbling Hij, require numerous Uul to pick them up off the streets, and in general, cause pandemonium.

            Maybe use Justin’s napalm or daisy cutters, when you have to advance over the ground later, or develop an electromagnet ‘sweeper’ to go over the battlefield later.

  26. By Generalstarwars333 on

    Question: Are the allied tanks gonna appear in the list of things they have in the back of the books in the next book? Will I ever write a run-on sentence that makes sense?

    1. By Charles Simpson on

      IIRC we are down to two of the beasts. In our world their first mission was to break through the enemies trenches. We know general Esshk is familiar with trench warfare so the possibility of a stalemate exists.

      The tanks are approximately 4.8 meters long (16 feet), 3 meters (10 feet) wide and are armored against small arms and light artillery. They are armed with a pair of side mounted machine guns in sponsons. [BITW Hb. p, 60] See for drawing.

      1. By Steve Moore on

        Just seems to me that if you took the sponsons off the side and added a powered 240-degree traverse turret up front w/2 .30 cal, you’d get a better (narrower) jungle tank. Or a flamethrower tank, with the tanks in the rear, if the purpose were to overcome & terrify Esshk’s less-aware (compared to Halik’s) Uul. Press that psychological edge as much as possible.

        1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

          As cool as Charles’ drawing is, it’s not exactly what I had in my head. I’ll draw it myself when I get a chance and you’ll see it’s not quite as wide as many of you seem to think. :)

          1. By Lou Schirmer on

            It doesn’t seem all that wide to me. Looking at the BITW tank drawing on the wiki, it’s hard to see how it could be narrower & still have sponsons. The straight-6 engine is in-line & everything is pretty tight. Granted, they could angle the armor better on the sponsons & give the gunners more room for movement & ammo & better protection. Maybe the next gen tank commander’s station could be a bit taller with a .50 BMG in it for more fire power. What’s in my head rarely looks as good when I put it on paper/RAM. :)

  27. By Matthieu on

    Logistics, logistics…..

    I see more and more posts about potential weapons but IMHO we need to think about logistics first. In the west, allies are already at the absolute ending of their logistic capability. Their main weapon plants, R&D offices, training centers are incredibly far away (10.000 km!!!). Their forces in India are limited and there is just simply not enough people to do everything. The distance between Balikpapan and Madagascar is so huge that the number of ships that they need just to supply those people is incredibly high. Of course they can get some help from the south bit it’s still really far.

    The league faces the same problem and there is currently no reason for them to oppose: they just don’t have the mobility to do so. We can of course expect sabotage or commando raids but no large scale action.

    We also need to consider this league: most of its members are obviously racists, conservatives, fascists and so on. But they are not nazis. There is a huge difference between the two. They tend to be much more rational (and thus dangerous) than nazis. There is also a huge probability that their league will break under pressure as they don’t share the same long term goals and their fleet is probably full of people who don’t really believe in the fascist motto.

    Low to middle level soliders and officers were probably there before the 30′ and most of them probably reflect military forces of the time…. Which means that they are not fascist (they even despite them). Some are Royalists, some are communist (quite common among workers in arsenals), some are nothing and some are probably republicans… As even if we don’t take that into consideration most of their education has been done by “instituteurs” which means republican high school teachers who were firmly believing that the republic was the best solution. Maybe the alliance can work on that to destroy the league.

    1. By Charles Simpson on

      While not Nazis the League is Fascist band has the OVRA for Vigilance and Repression of Antifascism. thus the league has it’s own Gestapo equivalent, See Devil’s Due hardback page 297.

      Logistics is such that in the war with the Grik and Holy Dominion it is a come as you are party. This kind of Police is necessary for the Police state, and no matter one’s political beliefs one will be careful with what they say to others with such a police force.

      Future plans to fight the League are on the back burner for the next few books. Unless the League lands tanks to support the Dominion I don’t see the need for anti-tank weapons in the books for a while. My guess is the League and the Alliance will enter a cold war with the League. Right now Machine guns and mortars for trench warfare lots of ammunition for the same will be the priority in the West against the Grik. More small arms, mortars, and MGs for native troops will be the priority in the East against the Grik.

      1. By Matthieu on

        “thus the league has it’s own Gestapo equivalent”

        They have something like an internal police but it can look like something else: GPU, Tcheka, Renseignements Généraux, MI5 and so on. It’s a political police but it can have very different powers and we should not infer too much.

        ” Right now Machine guns and mortars for trench warfare lots of ammunition ”

        You are probably like most americans (hihihi): you see mainly the weapons. You need to think at the strategic level. Bullets are needed but you should not fight the enemy using weapons that he can adapt to. You need to use other ways too: politics, economy, assassinations, spying and so on. All kinds of dirty works that you’re not used to practice. I expect to see gas and all the dirty weapons that you can imagine.

        1. By Charles Simpson on

          One assumes the bombing campaign continues, the Zambezi is blocked, and General Esshk’s new army is slaughtered charging into Machine guns and case shot. At some point the ability to replace troops will be overwhelmed and the Grik will learn they cannot win. A few aircraft dropping leaflets with the idea of a negotiated peace might get the Celestial Mother to thinking about this solution.

          Note the Trench Warfare will lower the numbers of Grik soldiers, at some point putting mobile forces to harass supply lines will occur, eventually leading to a war of movement, that the Grik are unfortunately ill prepared for.

          1. By Lou Schirmer on

            Assuming the Zambesi is blocked, the main land engagement will be against the Republic. With Muriname & some of his people, planes & equipment pulling out of Zanzibar, they have to go somewhere that can support them & that will probably be Esshk.
            If I were him, I’d send Muriname south with any MGs & planes he has to support a disruptive attack or trap for the Republic. The Republic Is at the Ungee River & the Grik will know they’re going to try & cross it. Whatever general Esshk has in charge of the southern Grik would have to be careful in planning, since the MGs will only be good for part of one battle & then be out of ammo. If he sets it up right though, the surprise of the MGs, coordinated with air strikes from what few planes Muriname has, should be able to break the Republic attack. They could even be forced to retreat if the trap is effective enough. Even if they only have 4-5 Jap planes, they are far better than the Cantets & the Grik have lots of bombs & fire bombs to put on them.

          2. By Matthieu on

            “the bombing campaign continues, the Zambezi is blocked, and General Esshk’s new army is slaughtered charging into Machine guns and case shot”

            You assume that the enemy is stupid and does not adapt. Why exactly would they do what you want them to do? They are going to move to guerilla mode, attack read areas, use zep to launch spoiling attacks, target civilians in the rear.

            ” At some point the ability to replace troops will be overwhelmed and the Grik will learn they cannot win”

            The probability that the alliance will run out of bullets first is high. A single battle is enough to deplete all stocks.

            “eventually leading to a war of movement, that the Grik are unfortunately ill prepared for”.

            Wrong, they are much better at that as they can live of the field while the alliance needs bullets (so they need a road and wagons). It can easily turn Ishidanwalda…

          3. By Generalstarwars333 on

            Matthieu, the grik aren’t currently set up for a field war. They’re set up to spew forth from the zambezi on approximately nine thousand and one galleys. As for living off the field, with the original grik, you’d be right. Heck, even with the grik they allies started facing in India with the matchlocks, you wouldn’t be too far off. These are the new grik though. They need the same things the allies needed in Ceylon, minus the aerial things. Case shot doesn’t grow on trees.

          4. By donald johnson on

            //A few aircraft dropping leaflets with the idea of a negotiated peace might get the Celestial Mother to thinking about this solution.//
            as the average Grik does not read I would think that this would probably not work. and the present mother is not yet a fully trained leader. I would expect them to control her for several years yet before trusting her judgment on this type situation.

          5. By Justin on

            Yeah, leaflets would be useless – assuming the Grik can even use paper with their claws and everything. Better to get Geerki or Pokey in front of a loudspeaker:

            As for the CM, we’ve seen that she’s already starting to assert herself to Esshk. If it’s foreshadowing, ten bucks says she goes over his head and makes a deal with the Allies.

          6. By Lou Schirmer on

            There’s no real way for her to contact the allies without Esshk finding out about it & arranging an “accident” for her & her posse. Her finding out Esshk’s plans to use her as a puppet may drive her to escape however. That begs the question of who/where to escape to. Most of the Regents would probably try to use her as well. If she’s heard of Halik, she might consider Persia. I doubt she’d even consider the allies, but it’s possible.

          7. By Matthieu on

            “These are the new grik though. They need the same things the allies needed in Ceylon, minus the aerial things. Case shot doesn’t grow on trees.”

            Why do you assume that they don’t understand the problem and won’t be able to come back to basic level?

          8. By Alexey Shiro on

            //As for the CM, we’ve seen that she’s already starting to assert herself to Esshk. If it’s foreshadowing, ten bucks says she goes over his head and makes a deal with the Allies.//

            Er… in several decades, possible. Currently, she is barely started to gain some sentience, and basically still on Uul stage of mental development.

          9. By Lou Schirmer on

            //Er… in several decades, possible. Currently, she is barely started to gain some sentience, and basically still on Uul stage of mental development.//

            In her talk with Esshk she seemed fairly coherent & intelligent. (pg.288-289) Maybe female Grik mature faster.

          10. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            Right Lou. The new CM was recently ELEVATED, but it’s never been established how old she was, only that she was young. And as you’ve seen, “elevation” is a semi artificial ritual. (Not that the consequences for the CM’s failure to elevate weren’t somewhat harsh….

      2. By Steve Moore on

        Assuming the Catholic Church is fairly the same, it played a role in Europe during the various Fascist stages of development, so it’d be interesting to see how the LOT’s various national bands REALLY feel about the Doms. We know how the Doms feel. Reading ‘The Coming of The Third Reich’ by Richard J Evans, pretty interesting. Beats watching the DAMN YANKEES.

        1. By Justin on

          We got a sample of that from Antunez‘s crew – so far, it’s roughly the same reaction the Havenites had about the Masadans.

        2. By Clifton Sutherland on

          I wonder how long it would take for a general True Faith uprising to take hold in the Dominion. I imagine that if the Union started supporting various Catholic remnants at the fringes, and got the peasants moving behind the traditional peasant staple of revolting- a charismatic leader (Sister Audrey), a doctrine of a better life and promises of salvation, and an ineffective and cruel government. If it picked up enough steam, I can imagine even ruling elites of the Dominion getting behind the movement, seeing the writing on the wall, while only the truly fanatical remain loyal to Domism.

          1. By Steve Moore on

            Good idea. Wars are won by psychological means as well. If the Dom army is busy fighting the Allies, less time to deal with a popular uprising, although that might make any individual suppression in a city more horrific, as they try to make an example. However, since there doesn’t seem to be any mass communication in the Dom empire, repression by example details would neccessarily be filtered through an angered populace.

    2. By Steve Moore on

      Agree. Logistics involves distance, weight, and bulk. Allies need to work on all three of those before they start thinking big tanks, new weapons, and the like. THey have the Doms and the Grik at a technical advantage now, but have to solve logistics problems. Not to mention that they’ll have to bring the NUS up to speed as well.

  28. By Bill on

    I have been waiting and waiting for the next one. I am glad it is finally out. Thank you very much. Not being a writer, I am sure it isn’t easy putting a book together, even a series one. Again, looking forward to reading Devils Due.

  29. By Lou Schirmer on

    Speaking of straight-6 engines, I just noticed the MTBs aren’t listed in the Specs pages at the end. Were they left out for a reason or do they need to be added in?

  30. By Generalstarwars333 on

    Hey, when did the League cross over again? I can’t remember, and I’m interested in the kind of tanks they might’ve brought with’em. Among other things.

      1. By Generalstarwars333 on

        1939? Hmmm…. So basically france is the only one with many tanks at this time, at least out of Italy, France, Germany, and Spain. Germany has some tanks, but it’s the french ones that the allies are gonna need to worry about. The worst are gonna be the S35s and the B1s. The S35s will be rather rare though, so more likely they’ll face numerous infantry/light tanks with the same 37mm gun that the Renault FT had in WWI. The Char B1 will be a big problem though. For that, I think the allies are going to need to bring 4″50’s on field carriages into play, since I don’t foresee any of their other current weapons hurting a Char B1. A Derby Gun won’t do, since they use blackpowder propellant and most likely don’t have the muzzle velocity. A 3″23 on a field carriage won’t do either, since the 75mm KwK 37, a gun with a similar length, couldn’t kill a Char B1 either. A 4″50 would make mincemeat out of a B1 though. So the allies pretty much need to either get a 4″50 out onto land, or pray to god they can make a decent anti-tank gun out of the 75mm AA guns on Savoie before they start fighting the League. For the rest of the League tanks, I think a .50 cal should be sufficient to destroy most of them.

        1. By Generalstarwars333 on

          Well, maybe not a .50 cal for the actual tanks. It should work fine on the tankettes, but for the infantry tanks they’ll probably need a Derby Gun or a 3″23 on a field carriage.

          1. By Matt White on

            Putting a 4″/50 into a tank would make even the Russians blush and they were known for mounting oversized cannons. One thing to keep in mind is naval guns tend to be built heavier than tank guns for the same caliber. Part of that I think is because they are meant for a hard life at sea but I think it’s also meant for them to hold up better in sustained fire. Remember neval guns are artillery and when you get into battle you don’t stop shooting. Plenty of cases of US warships having their gun barrels glow red after a battle. A 4 inch gun is also 100mm it would probably wreck even a tiger at normal tank engagement ranges.

            No that thing would be a monster and hard to move, even as an artillery piece it isn’t what I would call mobile. You need trucks to move it not pack animals.

            A tank gun would have to be optimized for the task. Early tanks used light artillery because that’s what was available and their job was smashing bunkers. A 37mm does that fine. If you want to kill other tanks you need a light and accurate high velocity gun. Right now the Union doesn’t really have anything like that. The naval guns are poorly suited to land use and the artillery they do have like the derby would be a good assault gun but a poor anti armor weapon.

            The good news is we don’t need them right now. Getting modern artillery to the army is a bigger priority I think and when the time comes to develop a proper tank I don’t think something like a Stuart would be hard to develop. Alden is going to be familiar with them and when time comes for tanks thats probably what he will ask for. Against late 30’s European designs a Stuart would do pretty well too.

          2. By Justin on

            Probably not late Thirties. Even some Interwar light tanks sport 30-40mm of front armour – a 37mm shell is going to bounce right off an H35, much less a B1:

            Nah, the Allied tanks need something like a 47mm or 50mm, at least on the 3rd Generation model (the current tank being Gen 1 and the “Stuart” Gen 2).
            And if the League has a few B1 bis lying around, they’re going to need divine intervention…

          3. By Generalstarwars333 on

            Matt: I was just thinking their current weapons. If they can develop a dedicated anti-tank gun, that’d be much better than dragging a 4″50 everywhere. It’s just that they currently don’t have any dedicated anti-tank guns. And IDK if it’d make the russians blush. They put a 6″ gun on the KV-2, SU-152, and ISU-152, and put a 130mm Naval Gun on a KV-1 chassis in the SU-100Y. So if they got a big enough chassis, then they could just use the same design pretty much for the entirety of their war with the league. Maybe cut it down to a 4″40 like Lou suggested. Heck, if they got a big enough truck chassis, they could probably use that and hope to god they get the B1s before the B1s get them.

          4. By Justin on

            For now, the Allies have Derby guns and the Type 96s, both of which should be able to nail at least Italian lights/tankettes and (possible) Spanish Verdejas.

            Not very useful against most League armour, yes, but remember that tank v. tank combat is pretty rare compared to tank v. infantry combat. A French 75, given proper HE, is at least capable of wiping out any opposing defenses… assuming decent protection and no heavy AT pieces, of course.

          5. By Charles Simpson on

            General, according to the books there are four extra doom stompers, however only Silva can handle the recoil so far.

          6. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            I’m sure other CAN, Charles, they just don’t want to. And shooting something like that a lot would take a very focused marksman. The Doom Whomper I built is a little bigger and heavier than a Stomper would be. After six or seven shots, I don’t really WANT to shoot it anymore. Silva may love them and like what they do, but I’m not sure, if he was honest with himself, he really LIKES shooting them either. Lately, I’ve been experimenting with “gallery” bullets, turning the last two bands off the skirt. The result is a projectile that still seems accurate (need more testing) and it only weighs a meager 1000 grains.

          7. By Justin on

            Well, an anti-materiel Doom Stomper would likely be distributed either at the platoon level, or in a weapons squad at the company level.
            Mathematically, it should be alright for 2-3 Cats to knock out 2-3 light vehicles apiece… and if a company is facing 10+ mechanized vehicles, it’s probably time to bug out anyway.

          8. By donald johnson on

            I think General, that you will find that Silva and Taylor are the only ones that like the doom stomper, When I tried to pick it up I decided I wanted no part in shooting it. My friend who was with me did not even try to pick it up. no mater what you mount it with it is gonna hurt a lot unless you are a BIG he-man over 230 or so. I weigh 135 and my friend weighs 116.

          9. By Justin on

            Bipod, maybe, but no-go on the tripod. Remember, the DS is a heavy sniper rifle: shoot, relocate, shoot.

            You’d need two Cats (one to carry the tripod), reducing portability. And said tripod will usually stick out above its surroundings like a giant “Kick Me” sign, reducing concealment.

          10. By Generalstarwars333 on

            Well then, I guess until they get a bazooka or PIAT or something similar, they could issue .50 cals on like the platoon level or something to deal with tankettes. Also, are the allies making the 25mm autocannons yet? They might also want to look into taking the quad mounts for the 13.2mm hotchkiss MG’s on savoie and mounting M2’s on’em instead of 13.2mm machineguns.

          11. By Lou Schirmer on

            A .50 cal on a low cart with a flat shield would be pretty mobile for platoon or company support & it could move fast enough to reinforce troop sections being hit hardest. The cart could carry quite a bit of ammo & spares also. A crew of 4-6 cats with 2-3 on each trail, could quickly move it where needed & with the shield & MG facing to the rear, just swing it around, plant the trails & start shooting right off the cart.

          12. By Justin on

            A PIAT should be relatively easy, being a glorified spigot mortar. Just need an AP shell and a way to launch the existing mortars sideways…

          13. By Matt White on

            Sounds like what we are describing is a tank gewehr

            It works against WW1 era tanks but would be useless against what the League likely has. Anti tank rifles were all the rage in the interest period because of the T-gewehr. And it’s understandable why, man portable antitank weapons keep infantry from being overwhelmed by armor. They are pretty impressive weapons but useless against an H35. Because of that most countries phased them out at the beginning of WW2 save for the Soviets who retake them in a more general antimarerial role. The interesting thing is that idea has come back and most modern armies have anti material rifles, usually in 50bmg or something similar. Good for taking out soft skinned vehicles when an ATGM is overkill. Using a $250k Javelin to take out a Toyota pickup is stupid. Using a $1 50bmg makes sense.

            Making a 50bmg anti material rifle is within the Union’s capability. However if it’s just a rechambered doom stomped then nobody will ever use it. It’s well established that only Silva is nuts enough to shoot the thing. Compared to even the T-gewehr it’s a pretty crude weapon with no recoil mitigation. What people want is a Barrett M82, fast, reliable and surprisingly pleasant to shoot. You ain’t getting that. You are getting an overgrown trapdoor that is great for dislocation shoulders and knocking cats off their feet.

            I don’t think it would be all that useful right now anyways. The Grik and Doms don’t have any trucks or jeeps to shoot. Silva uses it when it fits the role, like God tier long range sniping. It would be more useful against the League but I don’t predict a ground war with them so soon and an anti tank cannon and practical tanks are IMHO a higher priority.

            Ah crap I got long winded again.

          14. By Justin on

            So long as it doesn’t make us jump another page, it’s all good.

            Right, need to keep reminding myself that 25mm = 0.98 cal; usually I’m on the other side of this argument. Might be good for an interim tank gun, as suggested earlier.

          15. By Matt White on

            @Justin, something to keep in mind is the PIAT wasn’t a rocket launcher. It was a fairly unique spring loaded launcher. Since it used shaped charges which don’t rely on velocity at all it didn’t need a rocket. Problem is I don’t think the Union knows a lot about shaped charges st the moment. They were pretty cutting edge in WW2 and we don’t have any infantrymen who were familiar with a bazooka. I’d also rate the PIAT as the worst of the anti tank “rockets” from the war. No smoke trail and little sound is great but it didn’t have range, you had to lob them instead of fire flat and they were difficult to reload. The Bazooka, Panzerfaust/Schrek were all better weapons.they much better represent the RPG type that became more popular.

            I also don’t know if you can just fire a mortar from your shoulder. Seems really dangerous to me. Most shoulder fired anti tank weapons have some form of recoil mitigation with back blast. You could redesign the mortar to have that and you would then have a recoiless rifle. An effective AT weapon. Just need the shaped charge then.

          16. By Steven James on

            #1 The PIAT also had huge advantage of *absolutely no back blast*!
            this meant you couldn’t see where it was fired from very easily, unlike a Bazooka etc
            and, very importantly, you could fire it from inside a building or even a vehicle

            for an ambush weapon it was superb.

            #2 with British & Commonwealth troops as well as Americans, there should now be a knowledge of shape charge weapons amongst the Allies.
            getting them made however is another issue as it absolutely requires high explosives, gunpowder won’t do it.
            however, interesting point:
            Dynamite, based on nitro, has extreme temperature and velocity, making it good explosive for *rockets* , if you don’t mind the risk (alas, that is ugly fact, some accidents would occur…but necessary risk?), and use of dynamite includes, shape charges

            rockets lack extreme recoil and friction that normally make dynamite suicidal use in artillery shells. (nitro is incredibly powerful and it’s heat amongst the highest there is, so its still used for military demolition at times)
            RDX is much better of course (for safety!) but RDX,or PETN, requires complex manufacture, but again, the huge quantities the Earth Allies were making by 1943 means any folk coming across may know of such chemicals and manufacture. hey a few Engineers… 😉

            #3 Roof/top armour of armoured vehicles is thin, a .50 HMG would wreck most Germany armour at the start of WW2 if fired from above
            that’s why later in the war “tank busting” aircraft, especially the Typhoon could still wreck light armour (such as scout armoured cars which the Germans made very tough)with cannons….though of course they also had 60lb rockets that had same impact as a destroyer’s main gun and that could and DID definitely take out a Tiger
            such aircraft became the actual biggest killers of tanks

            #5 one of the biggest nastiest most efficient killers of Grik troops would be the simple cheap “Lazy Dog” flechette, people still don’t get how catastrophically efficient they’d be against mass infantry! ick.
            just simple steel shape exactly like an aerial bomb, made of solid steel, size of your thumb, extremely easy to make
            drop from 1000+’ up, it hits with almost same force as a .50 cal iirc
            Imagine PB-1s spraying clouds of those on Grik armies….

            #6 and making an antiarmour aircraft bomb isn’t that hard in fact it’s extremely simple, using large weapons is counter productive in that case

            my 2cents :)

          17. By Justin on

            Problem with “Lazy Dogs” is that unless the Allies develop a cluster bomb, they’ll have to drop them the old fashioned way. Need some way to get the enemy to stand out in the open (in a very straight line) as the Buzzards release the payload.

          18. By donald johnson on

            Several years ago I mentioned that making darts and dropping them over the army’s of griks or anyone else would be devastating. I am glad someone else has brought this up. The only problem with them is their inherent inaccuracy’s when dropped from altitude. You would not use them when your own troops might get hit. but beautiful with nassed enemy’s on the march. also you can use partial wood (fins and tails) on their manufacture to save metal

          19. By Alexey Shiro on

            Welcome, Steven James!

            //#3 Roof/top armour of armoured vehicles is thin, a .50 HMG would wreck most Germany armour at the start of WW2 if fired from above//

            //#6 and making an antiarmour aircraft bomb isn’t that hard in fact it’s extremely simple, using large weapons is counter productive in that case//

            I’d like to add, that Soviet attack crafts (like IL-2) often used a cassetes filled with small PTAB bombs against enemy armor. PTAB means “Protivotankovaya Aviabomba”, i.e. “Anti-Tank Aerial Bomb”. It was pretty small, 1,5-kg to 2,5-kg shaped charge bomb which was disperced in large mubmers and could easily penetrate up to 100 mm of armor in ideal conditions (of course, on the battlefield the results were much more moderate…)

          20. By Alexey Shiro on

            //and put a 130mm Naval Gun on a KV-1 chassis in the SU-100Y. //

            Small correction, General; SU-100Y wasn’t build on KV-1 chassis, but on the longer (8,5 meters) chassis of prototype T-100 multi-turreted tank. It was an attempt of Leningrad factory No.185 to save their project, which was considered inferior in compairson with multi-turreted SMK tank and single-turreted KV-1 tank and rejected by military.

          21. By Justin on

            //Several years ago I mentioned that making darts and dropping them over the army’s of griks or anyone else would be devastating.//

            I believe that you suggested the Great War approach: flying a bunch of darts up to bombing altitude and dropping them at at once.
            That’s why the military replaced them with explosive payloads – without an efficient method of delivery (cluster bombs, etc), the Union might as well drop rocks on them. Shit, rocks are even easier then darts!

          22. By Generalstarwars333 on

            WAIT! I HAVE AN IDEA! Okay, so we take a bomb-like thing with a bunch of flechettes in it that can be released. We put the fins at an angle, so that it spins in flight. When it’s dropped, it will scatter the flechettes in a cone as it falls.

        2. By Lou Schirmer on

          A 4″/50 would be a bit long a tank. That’s 16.6′ without the breech mechanism. On a tank destroyer chassis it might do better, but I’d still cut it down to maybe 40 caliber. Still long enough for good ballistics, but handier on a tank or tank destroyer. I think their best bet for immediate production, would be a tank destroyer type with a cut down 4″/40 in a casemate mount with 10-15 degrees of traverse off bore sight. They could use the 225 HP straight-6 as a power plant. That has all the power something like that needs. Give it 2.5″ of sloped plate in front, 1.5-2″ sides & 1″ rear with a pintle mount .50 on top & you’re good to go. Something like that could handle anything the LOT would have brought with them & they have everything needed already in production except the transmission. That’s the only thing I see slowing down development. That & that it’s not an urgent need yet, but a probable one down the road.

          1. By Generalstarwars333 on

            I wasn’t even thinking of putting a 4″50 in a chassis. I just had it in some kind of field carriage in mind, but your idea seems like it’d be much more effective, or at the very least more mobile. I imagine the Republic has some transmissions if they have trucks, though those probably aren’t good for tanks.

          2. By Lou Schirmer on

            Actually a 2-3 speed heavy truck transmission would be a decent starting point. The real difference comes in at the drive wheels. So you might have the main transmission sending power to another “drive” transmission, like a car differential. The “Clutch Brake” type is about the simplest & may be what they’re using now. The Panzers & T-34s used them also.


          3. By Clifton Sutherland on

            I’m liking this PIAT idea. Converted mortars with a round designed for armor penetration would be the logistically easiest course of action. But, I think the bigger problem is the fact that any armored elements would be bowling over Allied forces, which are still fighting in 19th century formations.

          4. By Justin on

            Whoops – missed your post, Clifton. Agreed on the AP mortars.

            The formations, however, only exist because of the present combat situation:
            A) Single-shot weapons work best in volley fire
            B) Fighting the Grik and Dommies involves melee combat, requiring everybody to stand in a group

            Given bolt-action rifles and an enemy that likes to hide and shoot from afar, the Allies should be able to adapt just fine.

        3. By Justin on

          Muzzle velocity is only half the problem – without proper AT shells, the Allies might as well be firing round shot.

          Failing that, the good news is that Char B1s are slow. Enough artillery or good ol’ sticky bombs should be able to do the job. Or perhaps they could reconfigure a mortar to work as a crude PIAT launcher…

          1. By Lou Schirmer on

            Of course for the infantry, they might start experimenting with Bazookas or Panzerfausts.

        4. By Steven James on

          Heyas! :)

          a) Lazy Dogs won’t need cluster bombs if dropped on Grik *armies in the field*, in fact, they’d be less useful then
          instead you’d fly ALONG the army in the field or encampment, dropping the lazy Dogs from a simple canister, with a simple metal “rail” at the rear helping to spread them out

          height/wind will help spread out some more
          slow speed and low height of Allied aircraft allows much more accuracy and of course TRAINING in their use…training would be easy, make specialist Lazy Dogs which on impact set off a percussion cap and small black powder charge or such to let pilots/observers note impact point 😉

          iirc impact energy from around 300′ was equal to a .45ACP round, and crucially, they hit at very sharp angle, typically hitting head or shoulder and coming out through the hip/groin area, or because going through so much mass, all energy expended and no escape
          i.e. caused catastrophic injuries, hence North Vietnam’s complaints (yeah that’s “icky” but hey it’s war)
          there’s no such thing as a “humane” weapon, obscene idea that is IMHO, war is NOT “humane”, just that some weapons are unacceptably barbaric especially to innocents AFTER the conflict!

          IMHO, one reason lazy Dogs were retired was because *there wasn’t much profit in them*, not because they weren’t effective (the North wouldn’t have complained if they were useless)
          but being mere chunks of steel, didn’t risk civilians afterwards, except maybe loggers using chainsaws, so that is drastically better for civilians especially children after the war
          Sure, for a high speed high cost latest jets they aren’t as effective of the craft’s *time and cost*, where a guided bomb is better employment, but for low speed ground attack aircraft or helicopters, lazy dogs are extremely efficient

          b) yeah the small shaped charge and cluster bomb weapons used in WW2 were very effective…but did litter the place with UXBs :(

          c) early tanks had thin armour on top so yes a .50 cal COULD go through them (see MKI and MKII Panzers), but by later in the war that was no longer the case
          British started using Hurricanes armed with 40mm cannon as tank busters, the Germans copied that with Stukas armed with 37mm cannon pods…British found using cannons for light vehicles/trains and rockets for tanks was more effective

          d) soon as the Allies can make cordite, they can make rockets for aircraft, much more accurate than bombs and as said can take more sensitive warheads…if you wish to take the risk

          e) I had an idea for a somewhat safer and practical multi purpose small bomb for WW2 era tech:
          ~start with 1 inch steel bar, compress it every 2 inches along almost cutting it off with V shaped hydraulic jaws while red hot
          ~you then wind the rod, which would be a bit like a string of beads, around a 6 inch mandrel, into a tight spiral, remove and use as the main fragment/strength of bomb case
          ever seen a child’s plastic articulate snake toy? Same idea, wind it up tight
          ~this spiral of thick, notched steel will when bomb explodes, provide large, lozenge shaped hypersonic fragments capable of penetrating most armour, especially from side/rear or top
          ~inner outer and outer case of thin steel, pre-scored internally, for general purpose fragments. this is easier to make than a cast bomb case, just need sheet steel, score when flat, form into cyldinder and well
          ~fill inner with explosive, especially if can, with RDX booster, as higher explosive speed, better fragment penetration gets
          ~So you have a 7 inch wide, 10 inch long small bomb
          ~if possible, make a copper conical shape charged liner for front
          ~add a fuse extender to front, so this detonated above ground whenever possible to get best effect from fragments and if added the shape charge too.
          ~with shape charge and large and small fragments, it would be extremely versatile, cheap and easy to make (no need to cast a bomb case)

          each bomb may weight 30 ?? pounds so aircraft could carry many.
          pre-formed fragments are MUCH more effective than relying on the bomb case
          you could add a small drogue to rear of the bomb, so on deployment, drogue ensures almost vertical delivery for best fragment dispersal

          such a device would be catastrophic to almost anything it hits or goes off near by
          even a warship or end of WW2 heavy tank would suffer badly form the shape charge, or from large fragments

          large and small fragments would decimate personnel

          you could also add a small thermite or red phosphorous charge to top of weapon, to disperse as incendiary to complement it.

          much safer than “cluster bomblets” as after the conflict, obviously a “bomb”, large enough to see and deal with safer

          Would allow PBYs to blow hell out of all the Axis ships, vehicles and infantry 😉

          F) the PIAT doesn’t require any complex tech, so could be crafted by Allies right now

          g) Ideally you’d want the M79 grenade launcher for the Allies, that would make things so much better in so many ways
          it anachronistic but not impossible, the ONLY really complex thing in it is the safety fuse which requires so many revolutions before it arms…again safety may not be such an issue and simpler safety could suffice.
          Rebounding fuses with HE/shrapnel and a buckshot sabot, would make M79s VERY handy for the Allied infantry 😉 also, flares.
          All it is really, is a huge rifled shotgun, and the toggle lock was already around (see Webley revolvers)

          1. By Lou Schirmer on

            a) I agree on the Lazy Dogs.
            d) The allies are already making cordite, or something similar for the 4″/50s & 5.5″ bag guns, but rockets are considered to be too hard to make accurate enough by some here.
            e) This sounds interesting, but would have to be tested to ensure it’s effectiveness against tanks.
            g) I’ve fired most of the 40mm variants & think this is a marvelous idea. Whether they’ll come up with the idea or not is up to Taylor. The grenades are basically a .38 cartridge firing into a larger low pressure case which then propels the grenade. They could substitute a .45 cartridge for that. The recoil is like a 12 gauge with low power loads. The hard part, as you say, would be the fuse. They might have to go with a straight impact fuse, with maybe a pin or C-clip to keep them safe when carried. You could even put one on an Allen-Silva carbine like an M-203.

          2. By Lou Schirmer on

            g) Given the era they hail from however, they’re more likely to use rifle grenades or light mortars than the 40mm grenade launcher.

      2. By Charles Simpson on

        Remember the League comes from a different reality and what our history books say France, Italy, Spain, and Germany have in tanks is not what they have in the new reality. IE. they have what Taylor Anderson says they have, and he ain’t said yet.

        1. By Generalstarwars333 on

          Yes, but chances are they’ll have very similar, if not identical tanks to those in our timeline, considering that the messerschmidt still got designed(just produced in italy), the hurricane still got designed, and the P40 still got designed.

          1. By Justin on

            Sounds right – the story appears to be going with mostly OTL vehicles with AU histories. Much easier to research than flat-out “what-ifs.”

        2. By Alexey Shiro on

          Well, the French philosophy of tank building would probably be the same. It was formed under the experience of the First Workd War, and the divergence point in League’s world timeline is later.

          But the actual models might be different. Let’s not forget, in 1930s France spended too little on military. In League’s world, with nationalists in power – the situation clearly would be different, so french army would have more tanks and better tanks than in our world. The S35 would be pretty common (its mass production was delayed due to lack of funds), and it is actually possible that some analogue of S40 would be around in 1939.

          1. By Lou Schirmer on

            The French in our world actually had more & better tanks than Germany when the war started. Their doctrine & employment was the problem.

    1. By Justin on

      Speaking of Allied tanks, how close are they to proper turrets (army OR navy)?

      1. By Clifton Sutherland on

        I would guess some time, at least in terms of usable ones. There is a lot of machine components, electrical systems, etc that go into turrets, especially the larger ship ones- those extended down through most of the decks! I would imagine that creating effectively armored turrets would be too heavy with the current power they have available, although someone with more knowledge of motors might know more than me. I’d imagine they will stick with casemates and splinter shields for now. Perhaps an armored vehicle could have an enclosed gun house, but would only swivel, similar to some ww2 tank destroyers?

        1. By Justin on

          //There is a lot of machine components, electrical systems, etc that go into turrets, especially the larger ship ones- those extended down through most of the decks!//

          Yup, that’s a turret & barbette – the Allies are definitely not that far ahead. If they can get a powerful enough swivel mount though, they might be able to just bolt on armoured plates and take it from there.

          //Perhaps an armored vehicle could have an enclosed gun house, but would only swivel, similar to some ww2 tank destroyers?//

          Sounds like Lou’s suggestion. Build a Hetzer or proto-StuG, mount a sawed-off 4″ and a pair of .50 cals, start driving to Tripoli.

          1. By Matt White on

            Many WW2 era tanks had manual cranked turrets. The good ones had hydraulic turrets. Electric servos are going to be too advanced but hydraulics are within their capacity given time to properly develop the mechanism. Most of the hydraulic ones had a manual crank as a backup incase of damage as well. I think the biggest issues are good armor plate steel and a proper AT cannon.

          2. By Lou Schirmer on

            //Yup, that’s a turret & barbette – the Allies are definitely not that far ahead. If they can get a powerful enough swivel mount though, they might be able to just bolt on armoured plates and take it from there.//

            That’s basically what some early & smaller types were. Although they usually made the swivel base a ring large enough to pass ammo up through it. DD guns didn’t have turret on barbette mounts AFAIK, just turret on hoists. As far as large turrets on barbettes, they have the Amagi & Savoie examples & by now the engineering base to build them. It’s just a matter of time & priorities. Right now they’re not a priority… except maybe for the Republic.

          3. By Lou Schirmer on

            //Electric servos are going to be too advanced but hydraulics are within their capacity given time to properly develop the mechanism.//

            They already have electric motors. A small motor geared to the turret ring with a forward/reverse switch would be a far simpler turret training mechanism than hydraulics. They could still elevate by hand.

          4. By Paul Smith on

            the turrets & barbette’s from Amagi should steer them in the right direction, if they need to develope larger capitol ships. Also the turrets on the Hidoiame should give ideas on larger destroyer/cruiser design.

  31. By Nestor on

    @ Aleksey – Sure, biology is also part of the equation, but still, it looks like triggers for the evolution of general intellectual abilities would remain somewhat consistent across species.

  32. By Lou Schirmer on

    Has anyone else been getting auto-e-mails from here regarding “New comment on your post “Technical Discussions””, or whatever category discussions?
    I don’t get them all the time, but every now & then one shows up.
    Just curious.

  33. By Charles Simpson on

    As I know many here do not do Facebook here is Taylor on gambling in the series:

    * * * * Future Book Spoiler Warning! * * * *

    E-Mailed Taylor Anderson about gambling He gave a spoiler and permission to post here, enjoy:

    Yeah, not much of a gambler, for money, anymore. And I’ve been confronted with numerous life threatening situations. Maybe that took the gambling urge out of me. I can see how it might make others crave it, but when you’re overloaded with excitement, gambling becomes just a past time to relieve the boredom between life-threatening situations and the money doesn’t even matter. I do still “gamble,” or maybe the better word is “dare” to engage in risky activities, and always will. But I approach those things as carefully and safely as possible (more so as I become a tad more fragile :) ) and consider them calculated risks, not gambling. Boredom rarely enters my life, I’m always doing something. The last time I experienced utter, mind crushing boredom (besides a few stints in the hospital) was on movie sets. I tended to fill those times like Silva would, with pranks. Can’t help it. And I’ve always been chummy with the FX guys, proving that one of the worst combinations of all is “bored men and gunpowder.” Obviously, nothing destructive ever entailed, just loud noises at inappropriate times . . .

    And competitive as Lemurians have become, with marbles and baseball–they already had various “hand” games, pugilistic contests, probably rivals among the crews of grikakka boats as well–but they didn’t have money. If they gambled at all, it was for objects, favors, etc. I’m sure there are still a few D-men running around with decks of cards, maybe even hustling ‘Cats out of their new pay, but that could destroy card or dice gambling faster than anything on this world. ‘Cats aren’t much into games of chance. Even hand games, the closest they come, have a lot to do with observation. Maybe they’d eventually see that card games do too, but dice? I’d have to give that some sociological thought. I’ve got them shooting marbles in the middle of an unexpected situation in the upcoming, but I’ll ponder throwing in another acey duecy or poker game at some point.

  34. By Generalstarwars333 on

    I’m rereading Devil’s Due, and I’ve come up with two questions. First, it is mentioned that Savoie sank three allied ships. I know she sank Amerika, but for the life of me I can’t remember her sinking any other allied ships. Second, Taylor, how do you do the accents for all the different characters? Like, how do you come up with how they work, and how do you keep track of the changes to letters and who has which accent?

    1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

      Savoie only sank Amerika, but the French sub sank Respite Island and a steam/sail DD, so three ships sunk by the League.
      As for the accents, wow. I don’t know if I can explain all that and still get any work done today. I’ll try to keep it brief. Some are obvious, like Silva, etc. Courtney has an Aussie twang, of course, but as an internationally employed engineer, he would’ve worked hard to keep his English “standard.” Typical Aussie figures of speech escape him from time to time, primarily in unguarded moments. The Impies have a kind of Brit/Scot mix, less noticeable in upper classes. Repubs have no real accent, but recent arrivals and their children do. (You may have noticed that even Lemurian Repubs rarely use double As). Their speech has become pretty homogenized. La-Lanti, Maroons and Shee-Ree speak degenerated (or less degenerated) versions of the languages of their relations. Nussies talk pretty much the way they always did, using generally careful enunciation. Other combined races and nationalities–(There would’ve been a LOT of Irish with them originally)– have conformed. I reasoned that would be likely since “American” English of the mid 19th Century had already been influenced by many accents and careful enunciation was common among professionals, particularly soldiers. It’s likely they speak Spanish, as well as various other languages of people they’ve come in Contact with.

      1. By Justin on

        Sounds about right. The Khonashi language probably has a trace of Malay too.

        Question: have Bekiaa and Courtney learned Latin/German, or are the Kaiser and legions speaking English? Surely Amerika can’t have taken THAT many prisoners…

        1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

          Absolutely, and lots of considerations like that go into things. As usual, I probably actually spend too MUCH time thinking about such things.
          In the Republic, like elsewhere, “Lemurian” would’ve been the base language, and with a single (known) source, it has remained fairly universally stable. German and English have become the “Industrial” languages, and spread out enough over a quarter century that most people need a little of it so with Lemurian and English, Bekiaa wouldn’t have had that much trouble learning to make herself understood. It was established that the Kaiser spoke English and German, and Courtney spoke Latin, of course. (The fact Nig-Taak is increasingly called “Kaiser” proves how much German has invaded their society. As to the actual Repub language, though, who knows what all has influenced it over the ages. Every time some new group showed up with a tech advantage, some of its language would’ve leaked out into the whole. It seems that the most enduring external influences have been Latin and some kind of Chinese, so they were probably the largest bulk contributors, though neither would’ve necessarily required a single crossover event.

          1. By Nestor on

            Here’s a more general question: would you consider non-human primates and/or dromaeosaurids to have a better innate ability to learn a foreign language than humans?

          2. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            Interesting question, Nestor, and hard to answer without a deep, rambling, sociological debate. In general, however, the speed with which people learn languages seems to be in direct proportion to how fast they NEED to. The ‘Cats learned English fast because they knew they needed to. It took the Grik, with the exception of Halik, forever to learn another language because they didn’t much care. Some of them understood English a little, because it had been the technical language used since they first captured the Maroons, but most still make almost no effort to actually speak it. Part of that is physiological, of course.

          3. By Alexey Shiro on

            And, actually, biological too… As far as I knew, at least part of ability to learn differen languages in genetically determined. I.e. it is part of biology, too, not just sociology. Both ‘Cats and Griks have different brain structure than humans. There is no reason why they couldn’t have etter innate ability to learn a foreign language than humans.

          4. By Nestor on

            I see. So at least it’s fair to say that language ability is influenced by sociological or psychological pressures (or lack thereof) just like any other intellectual adaptation and it’s relatively consistent across all sentient species.

          5. By Nestor on

            @ Aleksey – Sure, biology is also part of the equation, but still, it looks like triggers for the evolution of general intellectual abilities would remain somewhat consistent across species.

          6. By Clifton Sutherland on

            I agree. Currently, I’m learning Chinese. I have a couple of years to do it, but I know it will be useful, both for what I want to do in the military, and for work later on.

            That said, if I was shipping out to china in December, I imagine I would be learning it at a slightly faster pace!

            I would imagine that languages disseminate vaguely along the lines of how they are used in society. A language of the political elite wouldnt be used by the commoners- look at english while French was the language of the court. The Lemurians are adapting english throughout society because of wide dissemination- huge swathes of the population are being employed in war industry or the military, which use a lot of english essential to function.

            I bet if the Doms captured a bunch of elite english-speaking engineers, if anything, only the upper classes or the industrialists would ever bother learning it- peasant farmers wouldnt need to know. Same with Hij and English- useful for navigation and nautical nonsense, but a mainland artisan probably doesnt need it.

          7. By donald j johnson on

            and remember that even small interference leaves its mark! “OK” is a word that the Chinese coolies used and was not in the English language prior to their introduction via the Railroad building phase.

          8. By donald j johnson on

            Can you imagine the shock that the Japanese had when the Grik addressed them in English once they discovered they had a common language.

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