March 17

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Devil's Due



Copyright 2017. All rights reserved.

Posted March 17, 2016 by Taylor Anderson in category "Uncategorized

2,585 COMMENTS :

  1. By Steve Moore on

    Just seems like we’re jumping ahead of what will probably show up in the next couple of books.
    1. The Union can’t (and won’t) be able to carry a fight to the League in the Atlantic for at least a decade, since they don’t have a real 20th century fleet, even if Savoie were repaired, equipped, crewed and had stores (probably at least a year or more, that’s two books).
    About the best they can do is monitor the League from bases in West Africa with air patrols.
    2. They’ve got the Pacific pretty much bottled up as their ‘lake’. Mop up the last of the League fueling stations (I think that’s pretty much all they were, since arms and parts for old French battleships, Italian destroyers, Spanish oilers and German submarines are probably not interchangeable), make a deal with Halik to put an air station in his regency, and have the NUS keep an eye on the Pasa Fuego.
    3. What they’ve got the ability to do, with the limited level of technology they do have, is to continue to build wooden carriers, steel-hulled DD
    s, DE’s and CL’s for their navy; Scott-based cargo ships for the merchant marine & auxiliary; and a modern multi-engine bomber/transport for civil/military use, maybe a clone of the Ju52.
    4. Bottle up the Grik in the Zambezi, if Taylor has not already scripted it.
    5. Deal with the mysterious other forces the NUS faces in the coastal Atlantic and Caribbean. Get them as an ally and trading partner, at least of sorts, with the assistance of the Empire and the natives.
    6. Keep in mind that the Union is an association of free peoples, freely giving themselves to their Union. On the other hand, the LOT are conquerors, subjugating the peoples they find.

    Reply
    1. By Lou Schirmer on

      I take it you plan on dropping by Taylor’s place for a beer?

      Reply
        1. Taylor AndersonBy Taylor Anderson (Post author) on

          Didn’t know you were bringing a Grik horde! Oh well, been too quiet around here lately anyway. Be sure to remind me of your itinerary. I get distracted at times, tending to forget everything but what I’m writing! One reason I’m glad school has started up again, though. Kids are gone and I have a quiet house again. I actually CAN write!

          Reply
          1. By Steve Moore on

            The nice thing about bringing a Grik horde is that they always clean up after themselves; no Tupperware bowls of leftovers

          2. By Justin on

            … Steve, I did not need that mental image.

          3. By Steve Moore on

            Sorry, Justin. Will put a lid on comments like that.;-)

  2. By F. Smith on

    Just found this site and would like to pose a question.
    Is it possible the cargo ship found by the human and lemurian pilots seeking contact with NUS was the USS Cyclops? The area and the estimated age of the wreck fit fairly closely.

    Reply
    1. By Lou Schirmer on

      Welcome to the Destroyermen world.

      Taylor tries not to use ships with an operational wartime history, if I’m saying this right. USS Walker & Mahan existed, but were scrapped before WW2. Amagi was scrapped after being damaged by an earthquake while under construction. SMS Amerika is a bit unusual in that she existed in our world, but was interned in New York Harbor during WW1 & later served as a troop ship & passenger liner. The one in the books apparently came from a different timeline, as did Walker, Mahan & Amagi, since they didn’t exist in ours. That’s not to say the wreck in the Caribbean couldn’t be a collier called “Argus” or something similar.

      Reply
      1. By Justin on

        Also worth noting is that Proteus and Nereus were lost along the same route back in ’41. They were pretty poor ships – it’s a minor miracle that their “sister” lasted long enough to make it to the DD-verse.

        Reply
        1. By Lou Schirmer on

          Their sister disappeared 20 years before they did. They’re thinking now it was structural failure in storms due to some of the previous corrosive cargos weakening their structure.

          Reply
  3. By Justin on

    The Imperial Germans would probably have insisted that Republic warships have prefixes (USS, HIMS, etc). Some ideas:

    Latin: RPAC (Rem Publicam Arma Classem; Republic War Navy)
    RPCN (Rem Publicam Classe Navem; Republic Navy Ship)
    EPC (Et Populum Caesar; Caesar and People)

    German: KVR (Kaiser und Volk der Republik; Kaiser and People of the Republic)
    RKS/RKM (Republik Kriegsschiff/Kriegsmarine; Republic Warship/War Navy)
    KMS (Kaisermarine Schiff; Kaiser’s Navy Ship)

    Reply
      1. By Justin on

        It’s also close to the “Kriegsmarine Schiffe” that many historians like to add onto the OTL German warships… which might be a good thing or a bad thing.

        Reply
      2. By Lou Schirmer on

        Or there’s SMS, for Seiner Majestät Schiff (His Majesty’s Ship).
        That’s what the Imperial German Navy (German: Kaiserliche Marine, “Imperial Navy”) labeled their ships.

        Reply
    1. By Charles Simpson on

      Latin
      MST (Mortibimus Salve Te; We who are about to die salute you)

      CPQ (Caesar Populesque: Caesar and people. Like SPQR Senatus populesque Romani the senate and people of Rome)

      Reply
      1. By Lou Schirmer on

        I thought it was “morituri te salutamus”. I think your version says we dead say goodbye. Fitting, but I wouldn’t want it on my ship.

        Reply
    2. By Matthieu on

      There is NO prefix in German. KS is just a convenience used by English speakers (and not by German people). There were no prefix either in French, Italian … navies.

      Reply
      1. By Alexey Shiro on

        Sadly, no prefix in Russian/Soviet Navy also… A pity; they looks cool.

        Reply
      2. By Justin on

        No prefix in the Kriegsmarine. The Kaiserliche Marine, which Amerika came from, used SMS for “Seiner Majestät Schiff,” or “His Majesty’s Ship.”

        Reply
  4. By donald johnson on

    //——————————————–
    On Sat, 8/5/17, donald j johnson wrote:

    Subject: [Taylor Anderson Discussion Forum] Comment: “Character Discussions”
    To: [email protected]
    Date: Saturday, August 5, 2017, 3:41 PM

    New comment on your post “Character
    Discussions”
    Author: donald j johnson (IP:
    2600:8801:b307:3a00:e160:dcb8:7f23:6c75,
    2600:8801:b307:3a00:e160:dcb8:7f23:6c75)
    Email: [email protected]
    URL: http://they%20are%20capable%20of%20learning%20to%20read%20slowly
    Comment:
    If there is a Soviet transfer it will
    probably be after the Soviets invade Manchuria in 1945 and I
    believe that that is a year away at least so it won’t happen
    very soon

    You can see all comments on this post
    here:
    http://www.taylorandersonauthor.com/discussions/character-discussions/character-discussions/#comments

    Permalink: http://www.taylorandersonauthor.com/discussions/character-discussions/character-discussions/comment-page-1/#comment-7860
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    Spam it: http://www.taylorandersonauthor.com/discussions/wp-admin/comment.php?action=spam&c=7860
    //
    When did the Taylor forum start doing this. I got it in an email!

    Reply
  5. By Justin on

    What’s the Alliance’s policy on dual citizenship, especially in the middle of a war? If (let’s say) Bekiaa decides that she wants to be a full-time Republic Legate and citizen while she’s still an officer in the Union military, that could cause a few sleepless nights for Letts, Nig-Taak and the others…

    Reply
    1. By Charles Simpson on

      I’m not sure the concept of national identity is firm with the Lemurians. Many citizens of the Empire of New Britain are serving in the American Navy Clan, like Lt. Stanly Raj aboard USS Tassat, and until his death Brevet Captain Stuart Brassy served in the First north Borno Regiment. Several Citizens of the Republic of Real People are members of USS Donaghey’s crew. Union Citizens are serving with other nationalities like Bekiaa, and the Fifth Maa-ni-la Cavalry is even scouting for the Grik under Halick!

      I don’t think the question of dual citizenship will come up until after the war.

      Reply
    1. By Matthieu on

      Well i don’t like it but it’s a very logic flag :)

      Reply
      1. By Lou Schirmer on

        Ah, but the French are the senior partners, so which flag idea do the French like?
        As our resident French expert Matthieu, which do you like best & if none appeal to you, do you have a submission to the contest? I remember you advocating a crest or coat of arms. How about the black flag with red octagon with white center & something like one of Charlemagne’s coat of arms in the middle replacing the fascist symbols?

        Reply
        1. By Justin on

          Technically, it’s a three-way that happens to (so far) feature a lot of French. No matter how famous, I really don’t see the Spanish going along with a Frankish king as a figurehead.

          Reply
          1. By donald j johnson on

            The Black Flag all it needs is a white skull and crossbones :-)

          2. By Charles Simpson on

            Lou the Fascists are not repeat not going to use the symbols of monarchy! And Neither Italy nor Spain will wish to be repusented by the Lily of France, or fleur de lis.
            Another possibility surroung red octagon with white with white interior field: returning the Flange symbol to red over the blue cross with rockers of the PPF.

            http://destroyermen.wikia.com/wiki/File:FLAG_CES_black_field_IV.png

          3. By Lou Schirmer on

            Hey I was just taking a look at what Matthieu was suggesting & it was actually a decent look. However I do agree with you on this. Either your newest variant or the one with just the straight white octagon interior with the combined fascist symbols seems to be the consensus after all the conniving, deal making, blood, dust & acrimony of the LOT conference has settled.

          4. By Justin on

            Yes they will use monarchic symbols. Mussolini’s PNF, for example, used Victor Emmanuel III as a figurehead for the whole of their rule.

            Just not Charlemagne, because he only ruled half of Italy and none of Spain. More like Caesar or Octavian.

        2. By Matthieu on

          “As our resident French expert Matthieu, which do you like best & if none appeal to you”

          Well, it should not appeal me. It should appeal a bunch of fascists from the 30′. Given the fact that there numerous such groups and they hate each other (really!) it’s really hard to know which flag is relevant as some groups were fascist_Italian. Some were fascist-royalist (with sub categories orléaniste and bourbons and the sub category légitimiste). As you can imagine, it’s a mess.

          There are two basic choices:
          – create a flag using a mix of all the current fascists flags. what we are trying to do right now.
          – creating a completely new flag. In such a case we need to look for a common ancestor that all those bunches of fascists can like. something quite complicated as they also hate each other (as they define themselves as better than any other country).

          In both cases I believe that they were going to respect heraldic rules. The first flag is excellent (I mean that it answers to the problem and respect heraldic rules, even if I think that it’s really ugly).

          A common ancestor for all those fascists is really complicated to find. Charlemagne is an acceptable one (large empire, strong ruler, covered almost all Europe). For another ones? Really hard! I only know that you can’t have lys flowers. It’s really too related to French kings and all their partners are going to hate that.

          To be honest I would prefer their flag to remain ugly :)

          Reply
          1. By Lou Schirmer on

            I do believe we’re approaching consensus! :0

          2. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            I agree. Ugly is good. They’re the bad guys, remember? And nothing twists my stomach more than the ugliest flag there ever was–that of Nazi Germany. Something reminiscent of that is highly appropriate, I think. And as Matthieu suggests, it would be appropriate to the fascist factions in the League as well. One reason I personally was drawn to a black field.

          3. By Lou Schirmer on

            Interestingly enough the swastika was originally a symbol for good. You still see it used that way in the far east. It’s a little jarring for westerners to see it though, being used to the Nazi stigmata.

          4. By Steve Moore on

            Well, the Roman Empire had a pretty good spread, even if they didn’t have Hoss and Little Joe (caught a Bonanza marathon a while back)

          5. By Steve Moore on

            Are mailed fists holding lightning bolts OK?

          6. By donald j johnson on

            The mailed fist holding the both of whining sounds like a good one but you got to have a sword in the other hand

          7. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            True, Lou, and even many Native American peoples used similar symbols–but it has certainly been tainted by association in most eyes.

          8. By Charles Simpson on

            Well we have a consensus, a stop sign on a black field. UGLY as anything designed by committee. Ready for propaganda like stop the Fascists!

            Oh wait a minute in the late 30s and early 40s stop signs were yellow with black lettering. Nobody tell Nestor, Matthaew, or Taylor they’ll shoot me, or throw an old time necktie party.

          9. By donald j johnson on

            And a few stop signs at least here in California were triangular

          10. By Alexey Shiro on

            Guys, are we talking about League’s banner or CES banner? Those two entites aren’t the same, you know. The League is the bbottlenecked sample of CES military & cociety; the League DID NOT represent CES as whole.

          11. By donald j johnson on

            It was my opinion that they were talking about the league not this CES because as you noted the CES is not in the Destroyer man world but the league is

          12. By Lou Schirmer on

            //Guys, are we talking about League’s banner or CES banner? //

            I’ve been under the impression we’re designing a new flag for the LOT since they are no longer just a part of the CES militaries, but a new nation, in a new world.

          13. By Nestor on

            “Oh wait a minute in the late 30s and early 40s stop signs were yellow with black lettering.”

            Why would that be a problem? If it looks like a modern traffic stop sign then no one in our ALT-world will think of it as such. Isn’t that a good thing?

      1. By Steve Moore on

        Do hope they clean the Kurokawa bush up before they leave, perhaps with the flamethrowers. No sense in ruining a perfectly good island you might want to come back to someday…

        Reply
        1. By donald j johnson on

          Bet they just put a chain link fence around it in a big sign written in Grik saying enter at own risk.

          Reply
  6. By Joe Thorsky on

    Taylor-Everyone

    Can’t linger or lollygag for very long since having been placed
    on medical restrictive duty. I have, at least somehow managed
    to have finished the Last two fifths of Devil’s Due and found
    it to have certainly exceeded all my repressed suppositions
    and expectations. Hope there’s a lot more story to come! Until
    then, am reluctantly forced to play Katsup in both reading/responding
    to everyone’s postings and getting myself back up to specs.

    For anyone Savoie enough to know their history, there must be
    more than just a mere coincidence that connects it’s fate with
    that of the USS Nevada at Pearl Harbor.
    And Taylor; another Bogart movie that you should check out
    Is “Action in the North Atlantic”. Good basic depiction of ship
    to ship and convoy (non-radio) communications and 5 in deck gun
    crew training. There are also movie clips of warships (DD’s) and
    merchantmen as well as bombers, fighters and patrol aircraft that
    includes flying PBY’s as well.

    One very important improvement/addition for you to seriously consider incorporating into your future writings would be to have a page specifically dedicated to souly depicting all Allied and Enemy Aircraft types,
    specifications and characteristics with their attending appropriate
    silhouettes.

    I also have found some additional appropriate music that you
    Taylor/Guys might find enjoyable/entertaining and HTF:

    Lincoln’s Army mp3 Irish Rovers
    A Yankee Man of War mp3 Bonnie Milner
    Brooklyn Sloop of War mp3 Dan Milner
    Farragut’s Ball mp3 Dan Milner

    Free and Green mp3 David Kinkaid
    Nora Creina mp3 Derek Warfield
    Ballad of General Shields mp3 Derek Warfield
    Kearny at Seven Pines mp3 Derek Warfield
    The Bold Fenian Men mp3 Derek Warfield
    Fighting Tom Sweeny mp3 Derek Warfield
    The Wearing of the Gray mp3 Derek Warfield
    Mike from Garryowen mp3 Derek Warfield

    Billy broke Locks mp3 97th Regimental String Band
    The Minstrel Boy mp3 97th Regimental string Band
    The Men Behind the Guns mp3 Phil Ochs
    High Germany mp3 Quigley Ensemble
    The Ghost in Blue mp3 Lee Murdock
    The Scottish Hero mp3 Lee Murdock
    Raise the Pipes in Glory mp3 Lee Murdock
    Rollin on the Sea mp3 Breakin’ Tradition
    Jericho mp3 Gordon Bok
    Au coin du Ciel / La Gigue du Matin mp3 Ti Jardin
    C’Est l’Aviron mp3 Felicia Dale William Pint
    The Emerald Isle mp3 Barry Pischner-Rich Scripps
    Ballad of Saint Anne’s Reel mp3 South Bay Wailing Company

    —Later Everyone

    Reply
    1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

      Well Joe, I’m glad you liked DD–but I’m more interested in assurance that whatever placed you on “restricted duty” isn’t going to keep you down for long.

      Reply
      1. By Joe Thorsky on

        Taylor
        Will be having an all out “Wasn’t That a Party” mp3 Irish Rovers
        celebration after receiving medical clean bill of health by all
        of my attending Doctors-Nurses-CorpsKats. Until then,
        (probably/maybe hopefully sometime in Mid-August) medical
        monitoring for a weakened immune system will be the
        order of the day. No “Connection” mp3 Arlo Gutherie, please!

        FYI
        Let’s not ignore or forget the outlier Grik Army of Hallick as a possible future discriminating disrupting force of nature for either good or evil intentions and purposes. Glider drops anyone!??

        Also another improvement/addition for you to consider incorporating into your writings “witchooo” could make the Destroyermen Saga and Storyline far much more easier for the reader to track, follow and understand would be to add a Vertical Event Timeline. It would easily recognize, identify and catalogue all of the major significant historical moments and events that have occurred to Walker and crew since your “Into the Storm” was first published.

        -Later Guys

        Reply
        1. By donald johnson on

          //Also another improvement/addition for you to consider incorporating into your writings “witchooo” could make the Destroyermen Saga and Storyline far much more easier for the reader to track, follow and understand would be to add a Vertical Event Timeline//
          It looks like Joe Thorsky volunteered himself a nice cushy job ☻

          Reply
        2. By Steve Moore on

          Might be too big for a page; maybe go to an Access database!

          Reply
        3. By Charles Simpson on

          Some of the other groups with living people’s story lines would be useful IE Germans in the Republic of Real People in 1914, the Czech Volunteers of 1918 in India, Invasion Force that became the League of Tripoli in 1939. Would be good witchooo Even the history of the New United States from 1947.

          Reply
      1. By Matthieu on

        No way for European to accept that. Something looking like a cross (= related to England). NEVER! :)

        Reply
        1. By Lou Schirmer on

          Do you mean the X shaped background cross or the central cross symbol?

          Reply
          1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            The X-shaped cross would be incorrect.

        2. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

          I actually have to go with Matthieu again–and not just for historical reasons. One is color (white). Need to differentiate between the stainless banners, and another being the ragged cross on the Dom flag (with red background). Not that two powers couldn’t choose similar colors, but for clarity’s sake (for the readers) it would be nice to go with a different field. Particularly it ever shows up on a cover . . .

          Reply
          1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            Wow. I like Lou’s black background, with it’s “no quarter” implications! Just the thing to expect from a bunch a fascists full of hubris–and a color that would not put one power above the other (from a standpoint of trying to foster unity). And it doesn’t conflict with anything already seen, even the “pp” flag on Savoie. “Final” flags take time to evolve, and certainly to be accepted by all and distributed. I’m curious what Matthieu thinks since he is the only representative of a CES nation :) (that I am aware of) who is contributing the conversation.

          2. By Charles Simpson on

            Be that as it may the Deadly Shores said a read octagon with a blue cross with rockers on a white field IE.Deadly Shores Hardback page 213:

            “A red octagon with a white field that looked like a blue cross with rockers on each side,” Matt told them.

            Now the outside color could be black? Well if Matt Reddy meant the field inside the red octagon was white we get something like this using Nestor’s symbol:

            http://destroyermen.wikia.com/wiki/File:FLAG_CES_black_field.png

          3. By Charles Simpson on

            Then again Mattheau mentioned the black background was the anarchist’s color in Europe and Fascists hated anarchists. One Fascist, Hitler chose the red background of the Nazi flag just to upset the communists.

          4. By Matthieu on

            Well, the black background is not out of place there as it’s just a background color.

            The whole design looks suspiciously like a large stop sign (because of the octogon). :)

            As for the colors it’s looks good but there is one major no-no remaining: black and red are colors but they should never be a color on a color (white and gold are not colors in heraldic).

            It means that maybe we should witch colors and the octagon can be silver

          5. By Nestor on

            Now I’m confused: There’s a bunch of old and current national flags that have red and black next to each other: Afghanistan, Nationalist Spanish Falange, Germany, quite a few Middle Eastern and African flags, etc.

          6. By Matthieu on

            Because in heraldic, you have some rules.

            (thank you wiki):
            The most basic rule of heraldic design is the rule of tincture: metal should not be put on metal, nor colour on colour (Humphrey Llwyd, 1568). This means that Or and argent (gold and silver, which are represented by yellow and white) may not be placed on each other; nor may any of the colours (i.e. azure, gules, sable, vert and purpure) be placed on another colour. Heraldic furs (i.e. ermine, vair and their variants) as well as “proper” (a charge coloured as it normally is in nature) are exceptions to the rule of tincture.

            Even if they are exceptions, you don’t put a red charge on a black field. It would just looks ugly to them. The current design is excellent, we still have to work with colours.

            As for the meaning, you know what I think about fascists being able to ally around a single leader in some countries. Very unlikely (but it can happen).

          7. By Nestor on

            I see, thanks! Maybe when I get home I can tweak and swap colors a bit more.

          8. By Lou Schirmer on

            //Be that as it may the Deadly Shores said a read octagon with a blue cross with rockers on a white field IE.Deadly Shores Hardback page 213://

            That may have been the original CES flag. Are we designing that or is the LOT coming up with their own flag for their new nation? If it’s a new one & your reference was the old one, all bets are off. :)

          9. By Justin on

            Heck, for all we know, the Surcouf-class sub was sporting a pre-Confederation PPF design – it’s not like the Allies or Axis had a unified paint job, after all. The CES/League flag (if any) may look completely different.

          10. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            Justin is correct. The PPF device was painted on the mystery Surcouf analog. That may have reflected anything from the French contingent’s popular (sorry) emblem within the League, to that particular submarine crew’s political loyalty, or just the whim of her skipper. Never forget that the members of the League are . . . somewhat fractious, even at present, under the Triumvirate. This was reinforced again in DD by Atunez’s skipper when he was contemplating the OVRA representative he answered to. Expect this friction to be explored in greater depth . . .
            But the very existence of this friction is a prime reason why the League would seek to adopt a unifying symbol–whether it has already done so in the past and there are holdouts, or it is something new. Either way, some representation of the political emblem of the PPF would necessarily be central to the unifying banner.
            As to the black background, I am certainly not wedded to it–this exercise remains something for you guys to toy with and get you all “acknowledged again! Ha!
            As for the black, however, Matthieu’s point is well-taken, but the “anarchy” of the black predates the movement in many ways and many forms, and might be embraced by the various members in different ways. To the French, the central symbols might represent the “light of civilization bursting forth from the darkness of anarchy,” or that same “light” surrounded by it in this world. Think of things in that light . . . (sorry again). Imagine a committee representing the prime members of the LOT hashing out ways to make mutually meaningless or even vaguely offensive symbols palatable to one another. They might even be under pressure by the Triumvirate to “get it done!” and be willing to rationalize those symbols in various ways to make them acceptable to their own factions. (Wow, this would make SUCH a fun short story!)
            The irony is, no matter what they come up with, there will doubtless initially be those who disdain the “official” explanation for the “unifying” flag and possibly cling to their own contingent’s revolutionary symbols—possibly like the Surcouf analog?

          11. By Matthieu on

            One more variation, following Matthieu’s suggestion: http://snoeplau.deviantart.com/art/CES-flag-694390761
            For me it’s the best combination until now :)))

            Your last proposition with the black/white/emblems answers to all heraldic rules and is far easier to read (and it’s the idea).

            As for the black, however, Matthieu’s point is well-taken, but the “anarchy” of the black predates the movement in many ways and many forms,

            Sure. They can still use black as it’s trendy (for example). Did you know that black was a symbol of power during middle age? If your cloths were black, you were top level. The main reason was that black color was incredibly expensive to get and to maintain. If you look at some pictures, black and burgundy are really trendy in 1420-1460 for this reason.

            Think of things in that light . . . (sorry again)

            You are the beacon that enlightens us.

            (and not “you are the bacon that enlightens us” as it’s a sentence for Miss Piggy)

            Imagine a committee representing the prime members of the LOT hashing out ways to make mutually meaningless or even vaguely offensive symbols palatable to one another

            The whole idea of committee is incredibly American. This is not the way European works (especially at this time). A meeting is a place for negotiations. If one side accepts a given flag, you need to give them something else :)

          12. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            Ha, Matthieu. The term “meeting” was actually a euphemism for the knock down, drag out “negotiation” to find a common flag. That’s what would make it a fun episode.

          13. By donald johnson on

            Then you gotta write it out in the next book. ohhhh then maybe you already did. looking forward to reading about it.

      1. By Lou Schirmer on

        I agree with Charles on this. Nestor has the best combined symbol representation in line with the books description. The background color is easy enough to change on any of the flags.

        Reply
        1. By Charles Simpson on

          Sorry for misspelling Lou spelling never was my strong suit. Wild the assn vote is going for leo.

          Reply
      2. By Nestor on

        Thanks, but like I said, red on white looks like a Japanese flag from afar. Guess it would make no difference to the Alliance, a meatball is a meatball.

        Reply
        1. By Lou Schirmer on

          It wouldn’t be a meatball, just a red octagonal band around a white center with your symbol inside & white outside the band.

          Reply
          1. By Nestor on

            Oh, I see what you mean now, thanks for the link. You keep the insignia then put back the original Vichy octagon.

  7. By donald johnson on

    I decided today to study the Zambezi river. to see how hard/easy it will be to block.
    just outside lake cahora bassa which i think is the lake where the Grik are is a very deep and narrow canyon. If this canyon is there in the Grik world then the ricer is impassable without a portage. Yes it is possible that they could build one but I suspect that they actually are carting the boats as sections for the first 30 or so KM. after this there is a very fast section where it is navigable with great care by a skilled crew. after about 100 km it slows down and spreads out and then has many sand bars that will hinder navigation. This will not be a fast trip by any means.
    After nearing the coast the waters really spread out and I suspect that no ships of the alliance should try and navigate without a pilot experienced with the area. as only the Grik know the area we will not want to use the river very far from its mouth and it is 5 to 7 KM wide at that point and still very shallow with many sandbars.

    Reply
    1. By Lou Schirmer on

      The Zambezi is probably somewhat different from our world. They’ve got large ships on that lake & there’s no way to portage something like that. Also, they’ve built & sailed Grik BBs from Sofesshk down the river, so there must be a deep water channel in the main part of the river. That’s not saying any allied ships won’t have to be extremely cautious going up river. They may have to have the MTBs going in earlier & exploring & taking soundings to make a chart of the river before any large allied ships come in.

      Reply
    2. By Justin on

      Going by the map in DD, the Zambezi’s as wide as the Amazon and gets supplied by a Cahora Bassa the size of the Chesapeake. I doubt that OTL geography applies here.

      Reply
      1. By steve moore on

        Lower sea levels means a greater difference in elevations between the upstream sources and the Indian Ocean, so maybe a faster current has scoured a deeper channel. Ditto for the Mississippi, Colorado and the Rio Grande of the NUS, unchecked by any dams or irrigation diversions. Wonder what that means for them?

        Reply
  8. By Lou Schirmer on

    One thing I’ve been curious about for a while now is the LOT versus the Grik in North Africa. If the Grik have been killing everything in sight for the last couple thousand years & have spread by land out to Arabia, Persia & India, with their rapid population growth potential they’ve certainly populated the entire area of Central & Northern Africa. With a milder climate due to the mini ice age, the North African deserts should be more savannah like, similar to the American great plains, with plenty of wild life. Ideal for Griks.
    Then the LOT arrive & take Tripoli (or somewhere in that vicinity) which would presumably be a decent enough port for the Grik to have occupied. What follows should have been a repeat of the Amagi arrival, but with so much more fire power, the LOT wouldn’t have to join them.
    1. Wouldn’t the Grik have built a Great Swarm & repeatedly attacked the LOT?
    2. Since the LOT arrived several years before the Walker, wouldn’t the Grik have learned newer fighting skills, tactics & weapons from the LOT?
    3. How can General Esshk & the Grik NOT know about the LOT?

    Reply
    1. By steve moore on

      Might be too cold for Grik; if they don’t like the RRP territory, North Africa may be too cold. There also may be super lizards, etc in way, Africa is supposedly full of them. Maybe they took the path of least resistance and went after prey they didn’t need to march through jungles to. They don’t seem to venture too far inland where they are now.

      If they got there, they’d have to build ships to explore the Med, since they can’t go around the Cape. There may be no trees.

      Reply
      1. By Lou Schirmer on

        Persia’s north of N. Africa & it’s apparently good enough weather there, so it shouldn’t be too cold.
        They kept super lizards & other deadly fauna in the Madagascar “Zoo”, so they may hunt them for sport.
        As fast as they breed, they should be everywhere in Africa, except the cold area of the Republic.
        They live in jungles, so moving through them should be business as usual. They probably have a fairly extensive road network.

        The only thing I can think of is there are still some desert in N. Africa & maybe it acts as a buffer zone for the LOT, making it not worth the Grik’s while to cross them from the temperate parts such as the Nile river & eastern Egypt. The problem with that is they could still move down the coast lines, bypassing the deserts. It could be a combination of deserts & something else preventing them from occupying Libya. Maybe it’s a taboo region of some sort.

        Reply
        1. By Alexey Shiro on

          There shouldn’t be deserts in North Africa in Ice Age. On the contrary, the Sakhara must be covered by forests.

          Reply
          1. By Alexey Shiro on

            Wanna bet? Only a few thousand years ago Sakhara was a pretty wet and rainy place.

          2. By Lou Schirmer on

            //There shouldn’t be deserts in North Africa in Ice Age. On the contrary, the Sakhara must be covered by forests.//

            True for a full ice age. I know how fertile the desert is with some water. When deployed to the desert, any conditioner units always had plants immediately start growing under the condensation drip. However this seems to be a mini ice age since the water level has only dropped 6-7 meters. The Sahara may still be there in some reduced form, the central African forests would have moved farther north, but I’d think most of northern Africa would be savannah with large grazing animals & their predators.

          3. By donald johnson on

            When the rains came

            Some 12,000 years ago, the only place to live along the eastern Sahara Desert was the Nile Valley. Being so crowded, prime real estate in the Nile Valley was difficult to come by. Disputes over land were often settled with the fist, as evidenced by the cemetery of Jebel Sahaba where many of the buried individuals had died a violent death.

            But around 10,500 years ago, a sudden burst of monsoon rains over the vast desert transformed the region into habitable land.

            This opened the door for humans to move into the area, as evidenced by the researcher’s 500 new radiocarbon dates of human and animal remains from more than 150 excavation sites.

            “The climate change at [10,500 years ago] which turned most of the [3.8 million square mile] large Sahara into a savannah-type environment happened within a few hundred years only, certainly within less than 500 years,” said study team member Stefan Kroepelin of the University of Cologne in Germany.

            Frolicking in pools

            In the Egyptian Sahara, semi-arid conditions allowed for grasses and shrubs to grow, with some trees sprouting in valleys and near groundwater sources. The vegetation and small, episodic rain pools enticed animals well adapted to dry conditions, such as giraffes, to enter the area as well.

            Humans also frolicked in the rain pools, as depicted in rock art from Southwest Egypt.

            In the more southern Sudanese Sahara, lush vegetation, hearty trees, and permanent freshwater lakes persisted over millennia. There were even large rivers, such as the Wadi Howar, once the largest tributary to the Nile from the Sahara.

            “Wildlife included very demanding species such as elephants, rhinos, hippos, crocodiles, and more than 30 species of fish up to 2 meters (6 feet) big,” Kroepelin told LiveScience.

            A timeline of Sahara occupation [See Map]:

            22,000 to 10,500 years ago: The Sahara was devoid of any human occupation outside the Nile Valley and extended 250 miles further south than it does today.
            10,500 to 9,000 years ago: Monsoon rains begin sweeping into the Sahara, transforming the region into a habitable area swiftly settled by Nile Valley dwellers.
            9,000 to 7,300 years ago: Continued rains, vegetation growth, and animal migrations lead to well established human settlements, including the introduction of domesticated livestock such as sheep and goats.
            7,300 to 5,500 years ago: Retreating monsoonal rains initiate desiccation in the Egyptian Sahara, prompting humans to move to remaining habitable niches in Sudanese Sahara. The end of the rains and return of desert conditions throughout the Sahara after 5,500 coincides with population return to the Nile Valley and the beginning of pharaonic society.
            https://www.livescience.com/4180-sahara-desert-lush-populated.html

    2. By Justin on

      The Grik map back in Into the Storm shows the Empire ending at the Sinai; either that’s still a desert, or there’s another faction blocking them.

      Reply
      1. By Lou Schirmer on

        I think you’re right. I’ve been looking at later maps that say “Grik Empire (extent unknown)”. Plus that one shows both the Red Sea & Persian Gulf to be open & navigable. Unless that was just a navigation chart & doesn’t show the full extent of the Grik holdings.

        Reply
        1. By Lou Schirmer on

          It may reach the Med anyway. I don’t see why they wouldn’t be settled in around the Nile river. It’s an excellent natural highway for commerce & raiding. The desert to the west would still be a barrier. The LOT could be mostly in Libya, Tunisia & Algeria & maybe having troubles with some civilization on the northern shores of the Med.

          Reply
          1. By steve moore on

            The question still remains: how did the Ju52 (600 mile range) fly to Zanzibar and expect to fly home? Or was it always going to be a one-way trip, they go home on the sub or Savoie?

            The LOT’s got to be a lot closer than Libya.

          2. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            One thing; note the two maps of “Objective Outhouse.” The first includes Silva’s goofy place names, but in case there is confusion, the second includes Saansa’s observations decoded by listening Lemurian comm-cats on the AVD (thus the careful printing, but somewhat unusual spelling). It also, obviously, includes Captain Reddy’s scrawled re-naming of “Head Point.” Chack’s Brigade would ultimately land just slightly west of there. (Leo may enjoy gaming that!)

          3. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            Good observations, Steve–re the fuel required to fly the Ju52 to Zanzibar. I’ve watched these speculations with some delight, in fact, but I’ll toss in some other things to speculate upon: Obviously, one may assume, since the plane was only lightly loaded, it carried significant quantities of extra fuel, (in gas cans???). Nor must one assume it had to land in order to replenish. Arrangements for refueling within the aircraft were not new ideas, nor were they unique to Doolittle’s Raiders.
            As a “diplomatic mission” ostensibly there to benefit Kurokawa, Gravois and company had every right to expect fuel replenishment from him (though you may recall several comments to the effect that they were disappointed by the quality of fuel they found there). Still, the JU52 would not be as finicky as a MacchiMess. So, I’d counsel against presuming the League is within 600 miles of Zanzibar OR that the JU52 was necessarily on a “one way trip”–especially since the League (at the time, certainly, and possibly still) had the means to BRING fuel to the JU52. I don’t throw these bones to narrow speculation but to broaden it. :)

          4. By Lou Schirmer on

            Heavier flight weights cut into an aircraft’s range. With extra fuel aboard they may be down to 500-550 miles standard range, so they’d go through fuel faster in the initial part of the flight, it’s a bit of a trade off.
            Assuming 6,000 lbs. of carrying capacity with a few passengers, crew & light cargo, you’re down to maybe 4,000 lbs. available for fuel (about 667 gal.) Normal fuel was 654 gal., so that’s close to double the normal fuel. However the range wouldn’t be doubled, it would probably be around 1,100 miles, so the LOT would either have to be within 1,100 miles of Zanzibar, or they’d have to stage in from a closer site. The Ju-52 can land almost anywhere, so with proper recon, they could have open fields available to have other aircraft bring fuel to for the 52 to refuel & proceed. With radio, they could coordinate the return flight. They could be in & out of a deserted field before any local Griks even knew they were there.

          5. By steve moore on

            I don’t think they’re that close (600 miles); maybe a hundred miles up the Nile at the most. But it’s a LONG way to fly expecting you’ll get gas at the end. That’s why I was thinking it was a one-way trip, at least for the JU 52.

          6. By donald j johnson on

            Another thing that could increase the range of the ju-52 is flying at higher altitude. I’m not certain how high they would have to go to get the increase in range but when you go up higher you do get an increase in range also by changing prop pitch to maximize range vs maximizing speed may also give you greater range

          7. By donald j johnson on

            I was taking Taylor numbers for the ju52 then I looked at Wikipedia information on the ju52. Wikipedia says that the ju52 is 13180 lb empty and 20330 maximum takeoff weight if you subtract 1000 lb for passengers which would indicate roughly five people you now have 6150 lb of load capability this would give you 976 maximum gallons. The question I have though is that is the weight of gasoline considered the empty weight of an aircraft or does that have to be added to the empty weight of a aircraft for accurate calculations in which case then you would not be able to add 600 extra Gals but only about 376 to reach maximum weight.

          8. By Steve Moore on

            If the LOT was an invasion force, they probably had tactical recon elements, so they’ve probably got some long-distance planes to plot out a staged journey. Just thinking. The Nile in our world has an average depth of around 30 feet or so, but since it drains the interior, it could still have enough depth for small craft to move up it and supply a FOB.

            The Bosphorous also has a shallow channel (13 meters at shallowest), so that limits going that way in DD.

          9. By Charles Simpson on

            A base above the first cataract in southern Egypt of our time line Easy, and lower on the Nile is quite close to Zanzibar. The Grik are a narrow costal band not in the Nile valley. Therefore a base within 600 miles is possible on the Nile below Egypt See Grik Map:

            http://destroyermen.wikia.com/wiki/File:Grik_Map.jpg

          10. By Lou Schirmer on

            Empty weight is just that, empty, every thing added subtracts from the carrying capacity, internal fuel, crew (at least 3) etc. Then you start factoring in how much you have left & what you want to carry. Also, flying higher & with deeper pitch on the props is already calculated into the range numbers. Part of the aircraft manual deals with the performance at different altitudes, power settings & weights. Maximum range would be at the most efficient power settings & altitude for a given takeoff weight.

        2. By Lou Schirmer on

          Charles, in the DDmen Wiki, do you think it might be an idea to put all the maps in a category “maps”, to make them easier to find? You could sort them by which book they came in. Just a thought.

          Reply
          1. By donald johnson on

            map in larger size that you can actually see
            https://www.google.com/search?q=destroyermen+grik&tbm=isch&imgil=EEm8GBcv1txsoM%253A%253BBiQlMyh3QHhKGM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fdestroyermen.wikia.com%25252Fwiki%25252FFile%25253AGrik_Map.jpg&source=iu&pf=m&tbs=simg:CAESiAEJjvSaQWI8iUoafQsQsIynCBphCl8IAxIn3wJZ3gfhB-AC2AqaBd0J1wryCbs0mS7_1N7EnvDSVJ780vTTzNPU0GjAoHhc_1Iazm5xpYwuZRmRacxFLHctIHJtpblQskZjAahyZHF9NtPndoiEKLJCTBdOsgBAwLEI6u_1ggaCgoICAESBG44fwoM&fir=EEm8GBcv1txsoM%253A%252CBiQlMyh3QHhKGM%252C_&usg=__NYhLmbISdCpmftnxtcFgMm-_pYs%3D&biw=1920&bih=974&ved=0ahUKEwjMmceehJ3VAhUJy2MKHfrEA9QQyjcIPg&ei=JlhzWczuH4mWjwP6iY-gDQ#imgrc=EEm8GBcv1txsoM:

          2. By donald j johnson on

            Yeah but you can actually see the map

          3. By Lou Schirmer on

            You can actually see it on the DDmen Wiki if you go there & find it. It’s the link that’s squirrelly. Finding it takes time though, which is why I suggested to Charles to make a map category & put them all in it. Otherwise it gets tedious going through each page of images where the maps are all scattered out. Should make them easier to find.

          4. By Charles Simpson on

            The maps are in a category, maps direct link:

            http://destroyermen.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Maps

            When you get on the main page arrow on ‘Community’ slide arrow down to Special:Categories and click to get in categories. then look up Maps or what ever you want Currently there are 51 maps in the category.

          5. By Lou Schirmer on

            I must be a complete retard. I could never find it. Thanks Charles!

    3. By donald johnson on

      North Africa would be much wetter than our north Africa. Being wetter it would also be much cooler. Also the desert which though much smaller was there during the ice age. The Desert would be a buffer against the grik. Though the grik would be all along the Nile they would be slowed by the cold of the north african coast. remember that the grik like it best above 100°F and below 70 it is probably very painful for them. Think of how you would be without cloths below 50°F. That 20 degrees is an important difference between them, and us.

      Reply
      1. By Lou Schirmer on

        They seem comfortable enough with the temperature to have settled & established a regency in Persia. They probably don’t like the winters though.

        Reply
        1. By steve moore on

          Northern Persia has mountains and snow, but Persian Gulf is hot as heck. My guess they’re just on the shores of the Persian Gulf

          Reply
    4. By Alexey Shiro on

      //1. Wouldn’t the Grik have built a Great Swarm & repeatedly attacked the LOT?//

      Er, no. In “Crusade”, it was stated by Tsalka that this Great Swarm was unusual because the demographic pressure inside the Empire wasn’t on the dangerous level. The Celestial Mother called for a Great Swarm only because of her desire to finish the “prey, that escaped” – i.e. the Lemurians. So, if not for Lemurians, the Griks wouldn’t mind to left anyone around alone, except of occasional raids.

      Reply
      1. By Lou Schirmer on

        //So, if not for Lemurians, the Griks wouldn’t mind to left anyone around alone, except of occasional raids.//

        I doubt they would leave anyone in an area of decent climate “alone”. The only reason they left the Republic alone was the cold weather. Even if they are only raiding the LOT they should have picked up on some of the modern tactics & better weapons & General Esshk should know about them. The only reason I can think of for him not knowing, is the local regent keeping it a secret for some reason. Maybe the Egyptian regent has ambitions & made a deal with the LOT after being beaten a few times? Some have suggested all Grik attacking the LOT are killed, but statistically at least some should escape & the Grik would find out about the LOT from them.

        Reply
        1. By Alexey Shiro on

          As far as Tsalka knew, they would, except of usual nuisance raids from local regencies.

          Reply
    5. By steve moore on

      In Crusade, Esshk refers to the Grik having suffered setbacks before. Maybe they got hammered by something in the East African inland. And he does know that Kurokawa was allied with the LOT.

      Reply
  9. By Lou Schirmer on

    One thing I’ve been meaning to say, but keep forgetting during these exchanges of ideas, is to say thank you to Taylor for mentioning us in the Acknowledgements. You didn’t have to & it is very nice of you to say our nit picking was helpful & not a PITA.

    Reply
        1. By donald j johnson on

          If we weren’t such a PITA Taylor Anderson might get lazy and put out lesser-quality books. And we wouldn’t want that now would we

          Reply
    1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

      You guys forget: I live out in the country. There are no “author’s roundtables” or writing/reading clubs out here. My mother, God rest her, was my ONLY pre-submission critic until she passed. Since then, a submariner buddy gives it a once-over, but that’s it. Your criticism (and support) comes sadly late to save me from some goofs, but it’s all I got and I appreciate it more than I can say.

      Reply
      1. By Matthieu on

        Thank you a lot for your trust. If you want some insight, just make some people sign a NDA. The procedure is:
        1/ they sign an NDA
        2/ you send them some materials
        3/ they tell you what’s wrong, strange or weird
        4/ you change what’s wrong and you just don’t care about the rest :)
        (this is artistic licence).

        Talking about that, do you know that “editors” do not exist here? There is not such a thing: a writer writes a book and nobody comes after to “edit”. This is seen as a huge shame done only when the book is really bad (for example in some autobiographies). In “editor” has no accurate French translation. “Editeur” means “publisher”.

        Reply
        1. By Lou Schirmer on

          I think he has a few already, but it never hurts to have extra nit pickers & OCDs around.

          Reply
        2. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

          I’m not sure we have REAL editors here anymore. They go through with spell check, make a bunch of wrong global corrections I have to fix, and that’s about it. Primary “Editors” here are more the writer’s handler and representative within the publishing house nowadays. At least that has been my experience. So pretty much the same definition as you gave.

          Reply
          1. By Matthieu on

            You’re lucky not to have somebody telling you what do write! (save for you wife) :)

          2. By Alexey Shiro on

            //I’m not sure we have REAL editors here anymore. They go through with spell check, make a bunch of wrong global corrections I have to fix, and that’s about it. Primary “Editors” here are more the writer’s handler and representative within the publishing house nowadays. At least that has been my experience. So pretty much the same definition as you gave.//

            And I though the lack of editors was only our Russian national problems in post-Soviet times… :( Seems that such a problem is universal. Too much reliance of word correctors, I think.

          3. Taylor AndersonBy Taylor Anderson (Post author) on

            True, and that’s where a good editor is really valuable since they DON’T tell you what to write. Actually, I do feel blessed because in writing D-men, I get to play with so MANY subjects and genres that interest me: history, alt-history, weapons, sociology, paleontology, strategy and tactics, tech development, sci-fi, a touch of fantasy–you name it. And that’s probably why the series has been successful. There’s a little something in it for everyone–without me even trying. Certainly without me having to pander to genre purists! Nothing wrong with genre specific tales but I love to mix it up.

          4. By Matthieu on

            Talking about that, I think that the last one was more focused than the previous one. I also think that you need more pages to say everything (or that you need help to write more given the size of the whole story).

          5. By Justin on

            Devil’s Due is already close to five hundred pages – it’s supposed to be a novel, not a goddamn doorstopper.

          6. By steve moore on

            Well, folks, we’re dealing with a dozen or more story lines, spread out over most of the ‘known’ world (with a couple of continents left to go), so it’s nice to have a balance of detail and diverse subjects. Taylor, I think you handle the breadth of a series well, bringing mid-series enlistees up to date without a boring repetition (or reprinting entire sections) of the prior books. But they’re not doorstoppers in the sense of Tom Clancy’s novels.

      2. By Lou Schirmer on

        Above all else, don’t forget Generalstarwars333 in the next book! I think he was crushed not being mentioned in this one. Like the rest of us, he’s a delicate flower. :)

        Reply
        1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

          I won’t. And I didn’t this time–but I don’t know his real name and didn’t know if he wanted “Generalstarwars.” Then I got busy with other stuff and forgot.

          Reply
          1. By Lou Schirmer on

            We have to put our e-mail addresses in to post, so you could send him one to find out. He’s in school right now, so it may have to wait until he starts posting again.

          2. By Charles Simpson on

            Actually the General uses a school computer so he may be waiting school to start again to post.

          3. By donald johnson on

            Generalstarwars does use school computers and he is a very intelligent 8th grader or possibly freshman now that school is out. I bet he would have accepted acknowledgements an any name you used as long as he knows you were talking about him. And Thanks Taylor for mentioning me.

          4. By Lou Schirmer on

            He would probably go with “The General”, & be happy, happy, joy, joy.

          5. By donald j johnson on

            No the general would mix him up with an insurance company and I don’t think he would like that:-)

  10. By Matthieu on

    Fight against the alliance… What can you expect to hear in the French radio? :)

    I’ll going here to describe some typical songs that you should not know if you’re not French.

    Of course classical military songs. There are many of them as in any other country. Many come from the XIXth century (think “Souza”). Some are much older. Nothing really interesting here. Same as in any other country. Only one link to a quite old one (1239): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-gTUUgZCQo
    Of course most of them are related to specific units and you should avoid some faux-pas (using Anchor Aweight for Marines :pp )

    1/ The “chansons paillardes”. Literally highly vulgar songs transmitted from generation to generation. They are ritually transmitted from students to students (and they are not specific to “fraternities, it does not exist here).. Those songs are written in a “bréviaire” (list of religious anthems and prays… Yes I know but they use the same word!).

    Those songs are used
    – by students in “classe préparatoires” (highly competitive bachelor level in maths or science or language intended to prepare for a very selective entrance exam in a high level school such as Saint Cyr (equivalent of West point) and so on.
    – by military units (of course)
    – by medical students. Per tradition they are expected to be able to sing dirty songs in the “corps de guarde” (doctor’s room at ER). It is socially accepted. For example a cousin married a few years ago. She was 25 and going to be a surgeon. Her father was also a very high level doctor with a lot of responsibilities… but they still song with many guests some highly dirty songs about creative and recreational use of various vegetables.

    Example:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR9WBxeUtpw
    This is a 1930 recording but the song is much older so you can expect to hear that in the league. Same song, 2010, in a hard metal festival:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6U-6Mv6bSc

    2/ Sailor’s songs.
    Per tradition there are four categories:

    – work song with simple stances used to work at a specific speed in the ship.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHGY7-yMfFI (and it’s a mix on French, slang and breton).

    – entertainment song: intended to be song at the end of the day. Lyrics related to the family and so on. Some are quite modern. You’ll like this one as it does exist in English. Will you recognize it?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oH57pCxgxq4

    – local songs. Many sailors were from Bretagne and many of their songs were popular on ships. Those are often dance songs.
    Example: (and it’s NOT French). You’ll like the cute singer:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J2CIhA1mwE
    Same singer as you’re all concupiscent:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oymJGS-PTOI

    3/ Drinking song (think:Irish Rover)

    4/ Something incredibly strange for you… Carnival songs!
    Explanation: fishermen left during 4-6 months. The probability of not coming back was high. So they had a huge party before as they got 50% of the money before (to support the family). As their cloths were already on the ship they had to use the ones of their wife. As it took place during the carnival, the tradition remained (especially in Dunkerque, just in front of Dover). They have some really strange traditions.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0tqQokKNKQ
    The music leader (dressed as a sergeant mayor of the old guard as they had a camp in 1804 there) leads fishermen (yellow band). When you hear fifre, you can walk. If you only have drums, you have to stop. The front ranks try to protect them from the moving crowd.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0tqQokKNKQ&t=102s
    yes it’s weird. The next day the town mayor throws herring from the city hall into the (cheering) crowd
    The strangest tradition (and don’t forget to do it if one day you go there), is to stop the carnival at midnight and to kneel in front of the statue of Jean Bart (Jean Bart was a corsair who captured a huge convoy full of wheat, thereby saving the city from famine):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKiuy6zZfWQ
    You can see that I’m not lying. Here is the song sung 3 years ago by a navy crew in front of the secretary
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tEfLPLclrI

    Reply
    1. By steve moore on

      Very nice, Matthieu. Yes, I went to the cute singer one first, but something different…

      Reply
  11. By Charles Simpson on

    Taylor is having the Destroyermen Fan Association design a concensus flag for the League of Tripoli, assuming such a thing as a consensus is possible. put you two cents in here https:

    //www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1149878291810848&set=gm.820576264777182&type=3&theater

    Reply
    1. By Justin on

      WAY too cluttered; one flag for the entire CES, like the Union Jack (with each member nation keeping a separate national flag, of course) would be best. Worth nothing is that all four members’ tricolours have red stripes, and three have white.

      Perhaps something like the NATO flag, except more fascist-like and with a red field.

      Reply
      1. By Matthieu on

        We need to follow the basic European rules for flag design. Heraldry is the be followed. There are strict rules about which color and which combination is allowed. For example red to red is a big no-no.

        My feeling is that they can’t accept to use national flags (this is technically forbidden as it lessen their own importance and in would mean that their own countries are not really independent).

        I would think of mutually acceptable flags i.e. something that can unite them. Which is related to the past and not politically hot. I would think about something related to Charlemagne. It’s relevant for those countries.

        Reply
        1. By Justin on

          Technically, the Holy Roman Empire incorporated only parts of Italy and France, and none of Spain. Perhaps the actual Roman Empire?

          Reply
          1. By Matthieu on

            You confuse the Holy Roman Empire and Charlemagne’s empire.

            Charlemagne is seen in Germany as a major king. In France he’s seen as a major king. Both are right! He is the stepson of Charles Martel (the de facto Frank king who fought against Saracens) and the son of Pépin le Bref and as a descendant of Clovis (who founded the first Frank kingdom in 481). He’s seen as the lask “King of Franks”.

            He had 3 sons and each of them has one kingdom in 843. Charles had France and became the first His son is seen as the first King of France (and not Franks). The secong had Germany (and it became the roman empire) and the third had the middle part (Netherlands/Belgium/Burgungy/Italy)

            Watch this:
            https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/70/Frankish_Empire_481_to_814-fr.svg/1280px-Frankish_Empire_481_to_814-fr.svg.png
            Charlemagne is the emperor in 804.

            He’s the single one that united more or less western Europe before the European Union. As a consequence he can be used by fascists (ans he was as the single French SS unit was called “division Charlemagne”). At least most them ended on the wall.

          2. By Justin on

            Again, I highly doubt that the Spanish or Italians will recognize a Frankish emperor as an icon, especially with the Germans being second-class members… whereas the Romans got Spain, France AND Italy.

          3. By Matthieu on

            No way for Romans to be symbols of French and Germans.

          4. By Justin on

            Again, the rest of the CES don’t give a rodent’s backside about the Germans.

            I’ll concede to your knowledge of French attitudes towards the Romans, but it’s worth noting that they adopted the fasces.

          5. By Matthieu on

            ” the fasces.”…. had a completely different meaning for Italians and French.

            For Italians it means “fascism” (as this roman symbol was popular)
            For French it means “republic” (as this symbol of the roman republic was used during the revolution)

            As you can see, a single symbol and two different interpretations.

            French fascists used the “francisque”, a short throwing axe used by Franks.

          6. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            “No way for Romans to be symbols of French . . .”
            Right. But Fasces would not be offensive to French and I think the Italians would insist on them.

          7. By Matthieu on

            Well, they are not offensive for French. They are offensive for French fascists.

            They are the symbol of freedom, revolution, power to the people, republic and so on. This is the exact opposite of what fascists want.

            https://www.google.fr/search?q=symbole+r%C3%A9publique&client=firefox-b&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjMgJnytZfVAhVCfRoKHdR9DVoQ_AUICigB&biw=1920&bih=971#tbm=isch&q=symbole+r%C3%A9publique+faisseau

            Your symbol for the French fascist is really perfect as it takes into consideration the shape of the “francisque” that was heavily used by fascists groups.

            Talking about that, have you all noticed that in 1939 the number of real democraties (and not dominated by somebody who was closer to a dictator) was incredibly limited: USA, GB, France, Netherlands, Poland

        2. By steve moore on

          Just to throw a wrench in the works; we’re forgetting about any allies the LOT may pick up. European rules and heraldry may no longer be in fashion, so to speak. Imagine them being allies with a transfer from an English or Norse dictatorship, or a non-human transfer. Maybe transfer only works on organisms with a specific genetic code?

          Reply
          1. By Matthieu on

            Sure but in this case they need to change the flax. If we assume that it’s only the LOT we need 4 members.

    2. By steve moore on

      Thought League ships flew their own country flag or navalensign plus the swastika flag. But I think a plain white flag would do…

      Reply
    3. By Lou Schirmer on

      I don’t do Facebook, so can’t comment on Charles’ design, but I thought they already had a flag, this one:

      http://destroyermen.wikia.com/wiki/File:French_Nazi_Battleship_Lorraine.jpg

      It turns out it’s the French Nazi flag, but might be a good start, since they’re the senior partner. Could make it like a version of the German Reich war flag of the WW1 era. Have a red field in the upper left with the member nation symbols in it (or one identical symbol star, cross, hammer etc.), a cross sectioning the flag into quarters like the old Imperial German flag over a white field & the French Nazi device in a circle over the center of the cross. My two cents…& about all it’s worth.

      Reply
        1. By Matthieu on

          Well, given heraldic rules, this flag can’t be accepted.

          Reply
          1. By Lou Schirmer on

            It’s a starting point at least & fascists usually liked to put their symbols on their flags. They also would probably not want a design incorporating outdated crests & coats of arms, since that would associate them with antiquated forms of government. Did I go too far with the stripped cross? :)

          2. By Matthieu on

            “hey also would probably not want a design incorporating outdated crests & coats of arms, since that would associate them with antiquated forms of government”

            No, it links them with major historical figures.

          3. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            “No, it links them with major historical figures.”

            I have to go with Matthieu on this to a degree–if unifying heraldry that hearkens to a glorious past, yet does not associate them (as Lou says) with “antiquated forms of government” can be found. I doubt the French would re-adopt royalist devices, for example, and might even stick with symbolism of the Republic. Then again, we’re talking about two flags. The CES, while representing an arguably looser union than the League, would have to appeal to a broader range of people. The League has no civilian class to represent. It is a martial alliance becoming a nation. I would think their unifying symbols would be more pragmatic. Remember also, Laborde was a “conservative” and had essentially been banished with Savoie, so bear the internal annoyances in mind. Finally, (this is no spoiler) but the German contingent is NOT a full partner in the League, though it might occasionally be the kingmaker. The League is ruled by a TRIumvirate, remember? The German contingent (or any other imported or indigenous factions) are not–yet–represented on the banner.

          4. By Charles Simpson on

            This is my fifth try at a flag for the League of Tripoly it has the red gather of arrows for Spain’s Falange Movement, the red octagon with the blue cross with rockers for Fascist France, and the Fascae for Fascist Italy. In the League of Tripoli’s world France was first, then Italy, then Spain to embrace Fascism. Posted on the Destroyermen Wiki my fifth flag idea:

            http://destroyermen.wikia.com/wiki/File:Flag_League_of_Tripoli_trial_5.png

        2. By Lou Schirmer on

          Or we could go with a four color stripped flag representing each of the founding countries with some sort of unifying symbol in the center.

          Reply
          1. By Justin on

            Better, but somewhat loud – most flags just have three colours.

            Red and white are a given (showing up in three out of four members’ flags), so it’s a toss-up between Fascist Black and Spanish Yellow. A diagonal tricolour might appease the CES hardliners who can’t decide between vertical and horizontal.

            Failing that, keep the octagon but centre it on a white cross and/or saltire on a red field.

          2. By Lou Schirmer on

            Tried a few more variations on DA.

          3. By steve moore on

            Don’t forget religion. Most of the CES would have been Catholic, along with a lot of Germans.

          4. By Justin on

            #3 and #4 look promising… maybe spread the thunderbolts out along both upper divisions?

          5. By Lou Schirmer on

            I kept the thunderbolts together to represent each of the members of the LOT, kind of like the stars on the USA flag.

        1. By Nestor on

          Thanks Lou! Similar indeed! I wanted to constrain myself to just 3 colors (red, white and blue) and abstract shapes. Your last two would look great as regimental insignia, something I’d put on my uniform patch or the side of a vehicle/ship/plane.

          Reply
      1. By Justin on

        VERY nice!

        Perhaps each member of the triumvirate will have the white octagon/red field, but each with their own individual symbol in the centre – Spanish with just the arrows, and so on and so forth.

        Reply
  12. By steve moore on

    Don’t really think we’re going to see the LOT within 3-5 years, so…

    Mine the Zambezi and drop the Love Bombs, to keep the griks bottled up as much as possible…

    Find the Uboat, it’s got to run low on fuel sometime…

    Explore up the East African coast in steps with Nancy’s and AVDs…

    Cut a deal with Muriname… surrender now and get favorable treatment, or get eaten by the Grik when you’re no longer of any use. Maybe offer the Uboaters the same deal, they can join fellow Germans in the RRP. They didn’t sink anyone…

    Reply
    1. By Charles Simpson on

      Basically there are still the two fronts, to the east it looks like a campaign to wrest the pass of fire from the Holy Dominion possible with help from the New United States.

      To the west we have the Zambesi River here is where the Grik must break out to the sea. IF the alliance has areas on both sides of the river forts and perhaps chains can be employed to bottle up the Grik. I think the main effort will be between the Zambesi and Ungee river, see map:

      http://destroyermen.wikia.com/wiki/File:Republic_of_Real_People_Front.png

      Here the Alliance and the Republic of Real People will join to drive down the Grik IMHO.

      Reply
      1. By Charles Simpson on

        Consider Santi Cat has three anchors and chains that could be used in combination with boats or rafts to chain the Zambezi River trapping the Grik galley fleet up river. It would also concentrate them to make carpet bombing effective, burn baby burn!

        Reply
        1. By donald j johnson on

          The problem with jeans on the Zambezi is that it is 2 – 3 miles across and you would need lots of floats that are Unsinkable and won’t burn to prevent them from cutting the chains and breaking the blockade. If the chains are long steel floats then it may be practical but they would have to be long enough and with enough compartments internally to prevent a single hole from sinking them I would recommend 100ft long floats with 10 compartments in each made of half inch steel to make them hard to sink. Depending on the width of the river is going to take 520 floats per mile at 100 ft per float. It is not going to be easy but it could be done.

          Reply
          1. By donald j johnson on

            I note that in the previous that if the grik want to cut it all it would really take is a single 500 lb mine to break a float or chain so we would also need something to prevent Mines from striking the floats and chains. I guess this just means we need to think more about how to make them Unsinkable and Unbreakable with Grik technology

        2. By steve moore on

          let’s work with the 20th century technology they have now, instead of regressing a century or two.

          *Mine the Zambezi at choke points.
          *Have AVD mother ships outside the mouth supplying both Nancys and PTs on a constant effort to keep them bottled up, and firebomb upstream concentrations by night.

          Any Grik ship outside the Zambezi is going to run out of ammunition shortly, and supplies shortly after that since there are few defenseless coasts left to plunder for food.

          The Union doesn’t have to go up the Zambezi anytime soon; let the Griks stew in their own pot (sorry for the pun but I couldn’t help it) and turn on themselves. There are already mutterings among the Hij, it seems, and as more mature, sensible Grik, they might be more willing to accomodate with another group of ‘Hunters’, or with Halik, rather than have their existence threatened by a rabid majority of Uul who want to be fed.

          Reply
          1. By Lou Schirmer on

            //The Union doesn’t have to go up the Zambezi anytime soon; let the Griks stew in their own pot (sorry for the pun but I couldn’t help it) and turn on themselves. //

            Actually, I think they’re obligated to as part of the two prong attack strategy supporting the Republic’s invasion. That strategy was to split the Grik forces, so neither the Union nor the Republic would face overwhelming numbers. If the Union doesn’t press an attack the Grik can turn south in large numbers & plow the Republic’s army under.

          2. By steve moore on

            I agree, but attrition of forces while holding the Grik attention (they are more focused on Grik City) would reduce the strength of Grik forces just as an attack would, without endangering Allied ground forces. Attacking up the Zambezi is going to be on a very narrow front, with probably primitive road networks and Griks on either flank. Not much of a schwerpunkt here. Some American general came up with the simile of holding the enemy’s nose to keep his attention, while punching with the other fist.

            Plus, if the Grik move south, they’re going on foot without too much mobile AAA. The Grik don’t really want the RRP territory; better to have them remain focused on attacking east, and convert the advancing RRP into a blocking force while giving them valuable combat experience.

            Regardless of what some of the Allies feel, destroying the Grik as a race is probably not in the best interests of the Allies in the long run. Halik has come around, as other lesser Griks have; better to have the remaining African Hij as settled neutrals and a potential roadblock, possibly ally against the LOT. Imagine having the Hij directing Griks in building a Trans-Africa railway to open up ports on the West Coast of Africa, or to advance into Central Africa for mineral resources. Remember, the Union was formed on the concept of civilised behavior

            Just my humble opinion, will defer to better students of military strategy.

        3. By Charles Simpson on

          Let’s not forget the Celestial Mother is getting more independent too along with the thousands of Uul who are becoming self aware. Esshk and The Chooser may not be able to keep the lid on if there is a reversal like not being able to launch the invasion fleet. If that fleet is destroyed, and leaflets in the Scientific Language AKA English suggest an honorable peace and mention the League wishing the Grik and the Alliance to Destroy each other. Perhaps General of the Sky Hideki Muriname may be able to make General Esshk see this logic.

          Reply
          1. By steve moore on

            Agreed, Charles. Muriname staying with the Griks gives them a weapon to guard their side of the peace, but if Muriname fled with just the planes, he’ll run out of parts soon unless the Grik can tool up to replace them without the Japanese left behind on Zanzibar. All in all, I think Muriname could cut a better deal with the RRP.

          2. By Charles Simpson on

            Fuel the Grik can supply, but Muriname has just one load out of ammunition with none in the pipeline, and no repair parts. Basically there is no improvement over the Alliance state of the art Aircraft, therefore he has no edge.

          3. By steve moore on

            Well, one thing Muriname and his guys do have… a quick ride out of town, with no aerial posse to follow them.

  13. By William Curry on

    Tomorrow on the 14th of July, everybody sing the “Chant du depart” in honor of Bastille day!

    Reply
    1. By matthieu on

      Please record it! I really want to hear you saying “U” as [U] and not [OU]. More seriously it’s not that popular here as the music and the lyrics are old fashionned. I mean that they sound quite old and it’s difficult to sing as it has been designed first for opera singers.

      Talking about that, what about lemurian songs? Do they have “patriotic songs”? Or are they going to create something like “nordic sagas”? Do they have the equivalent of Souza?

      Are they going to write books? live songs? revenge songs? (I don’t really know how to translate it nor if it’s common in many countries. I’ll try to translate an old one really fast one for you to see what I mean. And Alexey yes you should have some!). It has been writen after the 1870-71 war and of course was used in 1914-18. It’s supposed to be sung by a small girl:

      Little dad, is it time for carnival?
      As you’re dressed as a soldier
      is it for a joke?
      or to threaten (gently) the little children?

      Non my daughter, I leave for the “patrie”
      It’s a duty where all daddies are going
      Kiss me my little cherished daughter
      I’ll come back home really fast

      Tell me mum what is this medal?
      And this letter that the postman is giving?
      Tell me mum why do you cry and and faint?
      They killed little cherished daddy

      Yes my daughter they killed your father
      Cry with me as we hate them (reference to the next line)
      Those awfull wars that make mother cry
      and kill the fathers of the little blond angels

      Snow is falling on the doors of the curt
      There is sitting a child on Steasbourg
      She says there despite the cold and the icy wind
      She stays there despite the end of the day

      A man is passing, to the gild gives [money]
      She recognizes the german uniform
      The she not accept the given money
      To the enemy she says proudly

      Keep your gold, i keep my power
      Prussian solder move away
      I’m a daughter of France
      To the enemy I don’t ask for money

      While prying in this cathedral
      My mother dies below this crumbling entrance
      Killed by one of your bullets
      Killed by one of you shells
      My father died on the battlefield
      I haven’t seen the coffin
      Killed by one of your bullets
      This is why I’m mounrning

      You had Alsace and Lorraine
      You have millions of foreigners
      You tried to turn the plain [Alsace] into german land
      But you’ll hever have my heart
      As my heart will remain French.

      Reply
      1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

        I love that. Matthieu, and I’d love to hear it in French!

        Reply
        1. By donald j johnson on

          Not sure how that would translate for the lemorans. Their only real enemy wouldn’t be giving them food or money because they operate on a catch and eat option

          Reply
          1. By Clifton Sutherland on

            Off the top of my head, some of the civil war songs carry such themes of going off to war and sacrificing for the nation. Johnny comes marching home” Battle Cry of Freedom” and “Battle Hymn of the Republic” are but a few. Some of the Confederate songs focus more on defiance against outsiders, I suppose, but I’m not as knowledgeable there.

            Johnny: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tIsXLyZcWI

            Battle Cry: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qK3H4JJ-8Bg (and the confederate version as well! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz6Jk8RttlE)

            Hymn of Republic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jy6AOGRsR80

            And of course there are dozens more military tunes, unit anthems, etc. But this is what just came to mind at the moment.

          2. Taylor AndersonBy Taylor Anderson (Post author) on

            Many, many songs of that era reflect the same sentiments, and a large percentage of ACW songs and melodies were borrowed from Europe (England, Scotland, even Germany, but with an emphasis on Ireland). Sometimes just the words were changed around a bit, or they wrote all new songs and applied them to ancient, familiar melodies. Most are quite stirring and range from keenly martial to simple “wish I was home” songs. In the latter vein, “Jonny has gone for a soldier” is very good, but certainly predates the ACW and was, I believe, inspired by the Irish rising. “Lorena” is another poignant one. I’m sure Joe has a better list off the top of his head. In the former vein that Clifton described, the first lines of another are:
            “With my knapsack on my back,
            my rifle on my shoulder-
            I’ll march away to the firing line
            and kill that Yankee soldier–”
            I’ve heard this performed with words from the US-Mexican War (with musket substituted for rifle) so it is probable that it is quite a bit older and would serve as a generic war song for the ages (of linear combat). Just “insert enemy name____here.”

          3. By steve moore on

            Geez, maybe the next audio release should have a soundtrack. Or better still, the next transfer include a complete USO tour. Supposedly Rochefort had half a battleship’s band transferred to him after Pearl Harbor and they made decent code analysts.

          4. By Matthieu on

            Thank you a lot for your answers. I notice that those are not exactly “revenge songs”. I mean “intended to make soldiers win the next one”. It would be for example a song used by former confederation soldiers to prepare the next war.

            Obviously it means that you have to loose a battle or a war first! There were many such songs in France between 1870 and 1914 (about Alsace-Lorraine). [note: Clifton, it’s the only non negotiable thing for France in WW1].
            Some Germans songs existed after WW1. Of course there were many such Russian songs after the beginning of WW2.

            Many songs had two versions: one for the general public and one for more mature ones with descriptions of highly creative stunts.

            I’ll try to do a post on the topic as it’s going to entertain you.

            You’re right, many US songs were close to European ones.

          5. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

            Well, “I’m a Good Ol’ Rebel” might qualify. It’s kind of the ultimate “sore loser” song, and it even has a catchy tune. All the same, I almost cringe when I hear it. And I say that as a descendant of Confederate soldiers–who accepted that they lost fair and square. (Their writings actually indicate they were amazingly philosophical about it). In effect, they recognized that they did their best, fighting above their weight, and got beat. I don’t know if they would have sung “I’m a Good ol’ Rebel” or not–possibly during the excesses associated with Reconstruction–but doubtful as they mellowed. While sometimes prone to stubbornness and propelled to rash actions on “principle,” it just isn’t in the family genes to hold grudges. Had those Reconstruction excesses continued, however, I suspect the “principle switch” might’ve been flipped at some point and I probably wouldn’t exist because all my ancestors would’ve made unendurable nuisances of themselves…

      2. By Charles Simpson on

        Way back in Distant Thunders Music at the Screw was described as a combination of American Music and Lemurian music. Just what pure Lemurian music sounds like has never been discussed, and with the Big Band Sound of American Swing influencing it I doubt we will hear native Music.

        Reply
        1. By steve moore on

          Well, they never found Glen Miller’s plane… always hope.

          Reply
          1. By Charles Simpson on

            Glenn Miller a prisoner of the League of Tripoli this means war!!!!

          2. By donald j johnson on

            Somewhere I read something about bagpipes and I suspect howling cats and bagpipes would sound about the in a bar

        2. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

          Lemurian music and entertainment was briefly observed at an early meeting in Nakja-Mur’s Great Hall at Baalkpan.

          Reply
      1. By Matthieu on

        Mental note: next time, check that he’s dead, even with a full clip inside :)

        Reply
    2. By Steve Moore on

      Funny, one of the first things I learned in French 1 back in high school was the “Marseille”. Back when CDG was more than just an airport full of cops with tommy guns…

      Reply
        1. By steve moore on

          Spell check doesn’t do francais, at least probably not without a donation to Bill Gates… :-(

          Reply
          1. By Matthieu on

            because the name is “marseillaise” (means “the one [mort of the time song] that comes from Marseille”)

          2. By steve moore on

            Thanks. Next time I will just hum along

          3. By donald j johnson on

            Have a few bars instead of standing behind them

  14. By Joe Thorsky on

    What is the current Black Market price to have an emergency medical supply of Destroyermen Polta Paste salve, ointment or cream air dropped and shipped to me ASAP?
    Condition’s worse than “Poison Ivy” mp3 by The Coasters

    Taylor, Everyone! “It’s an Up and Down World” mp3 by Johnny Adams and I do sincerely apologize and am so sorry to have left you guys in the lurch and high and dry (That’s me now for sure!) but after getting unexpectedly waylaid , sidetracked and grounded “That’s Life” mp3 by Frank Sinatra by Mother Nature’s debilitating siren call “Walking the Back Streets and Crying mp3 by Little Milton I have been generally under the weather and incapacitated for past ten days or so (at least as the Grik Birds fly, I reckon!) recuperating.
    Despite all of the impediments and distractions, have still managed to get 3/5ths through Taylor’s Devils’s Due and I just can’t wait to finally finish reading this just might be for me your (Taylor) best written work yet.
    The read so far, is a great multi-disciplinary and multi-faceted scholarly primer that seamlessly and creatively interweaves and merges together both World War Two History with Science Fiction. Answering for now “Yesterday/Today”, “This for That”, “Here to There” and “Why-Because” in a completely novel and enduring, compelling, captivating and enthralling layman’s manner which has now suddenly become your own signature SOP and identifying trademark.
    By the way; It doesn’t require another pyrrhic capitulation, surrender or another Hallick to know that I’ve again been Snookered and Skinnered by BF Taylor and Company!!! (Good Grief!)
    And Taylor. I am really looking forward to being around for your next and 12th!
    To the “Shores of Americay” mp3 by a “Jolly Roving Tar” mp3 by The Irish Rovers.?!!

    FYI and open for comment:
    Humphrey Bogart describes the Specs of a four stacker in the movie “Across the Pacific”. Great scene and commentary of a four stacker DD on patrol!

    Question?
    What significance is there to the year and date of 1956 to Courtney Bradford’s “World’s I’ve Wondered” Textbook and Treatise. (Hint: Is it only coincidental that it was published in the same year that the Hungarian Revolution against the Soviet Union had also began?).

    Reply
    1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

      Thanks Joe! And–I guess you got real poison Ivy? Yaak. Amazingly, considering how many things I’m seasonally allergic to, poison ivy has no affect on me. Poison OAK makes up for it and causes a reaction similar to shingles!
      Haven’t seen that Bogey film. Have to find it.

      Reply
      1. By donald j johnson on

        Well with me when I was younger I used to grab the poison oak and throw it at everybody else it was messing with me because I was immune to it never tried poison ivy as never seen it.

        Reply
    2. By Steve Moore on

      Well, Gold Bond powder seems to work for me. Plus the ticks don’t seem to like it either.

      Reply
  15. By a loa on

    Hello all

    I hope that you have a great day. I’m going to go on holidays soon and will come back close to August the 24th so maybe you won’t see me a lot (1 week with family, 2 weeks camping, 1 week at Venice). We’ll celebrate the fact that my 6 YO daughter is “officially” (well according to the surgeon) cured for her congenital clubfoot (a lot of fun involved: weekly changed cast from birth to 2 MO then foot abduction brace full time during one year + daily physiotherapy then nightly during two more years). He sees her now twice a year to check and everything is ok. She begins dance this fall.

    Reply
    1. By Alexey Shiro on

      I’m really happy to hear this! Wish best luck to you and your family!

      Reply
    2. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

      Congratulations. I’m very happy to hear about your daughter and can certainly join you in your joy and relief. Having a (now grown) daughter, I still cherish my memories of her at your daughter’s age. That is a PRECIOUS time, and I’m so glad SHE will better enjoy it now as well.

      Reply
    3. By Steve Moore on

      Best wishes to your daughter, hope she does well. Enjoy their youth, it passes SO fast.

      Reply
      1. By Matthieu on

        Thank you a lot you all.

        Well, I’m already digging some holes in the garden. She has a boyfriend at school and I need to work on an “accident”…. Ok, he’s 6 too but this is not the problem!

        Reply
  16. By Lou Schirmer on

    Do any of the old salts remember…Bean Day? My dad was Gold Platers before & during the war & I remember him talking about it in awed tones mixed with equal parts horror & amusement. Beans for breakfast, beans for lunch & you guessed it, beans for dinner, with other stuff mixed in presumably. The breakfast beans may or may not have bean :) lima beans. I’m amazed there weren’t more on-board ship fires or explosions those days, & thinking about 30-40 men in a cramped berth with poor ventilation, boggles the mind.

    On a different note, I guess the DD cover art raised hopes of a transfer in the middle of a battle…& were dashed by the book. No Grik birds involved in the action either. MacchiSchmitts on the cover would have been interesting. Taylor, do you have any input or approval/disapproval rights on cover art? Maybe you could have one of the local Texas boys or girls do paintings to your sketched ideas?

    Reply
    1. By Steve Moore on

      Preferably one that knows how to draw people, understands that fire control is usually pointed in the same direction that your guns are shooting, and most of all, perspective. Oh yeah, and the fact that 4″50 guns don’t fire remotely, even when they’re pointed away from the enemy.

      Reply
      1. By Justin on

        1) It’s Ace Books. Remember what their art department did to the Lost Fleet covers?

        2) Even if they got all the technical details right, drawing/rendering people is HARD.

        Reply
        1. By Matt on

          I like how in the books the main character (his name escapes me right now) makes a joke about how they always depict him in power armor with a rifle when that literally never happens in the series. Good to know the art department of publishers in their world is as dim witted as the ones in ours

          Reply
          1. By donald j johnson on

            Now why would anyone want to carry a rifle when wearing power armor unless it’s not a rifle firing bullets but instead is a power rifle firing a gigawatt laser or something

          2. By Clifton Sutherland on

            Rail or coil-based rifle, perhaps?

          3. By Justin on

            Better yet, exactly why would a Fleet Admiral be armed, armoured, AND standing on the front line?

          4. By Alexey Shiro on

            “Lost Fleet” by Jack Campbell. The main character never left his flagship for the first few books, but the cover art always deplicted him on some planet, in armor and with some badass gun (he never participated in ANY firefights at all)

    2. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

      I have had input into covers in the past (thank God, since the first cover of Into the Storm had a generic DD and I threw an absolute fit–when I was theoretically in a much worse position to do so). Oddly, I actually seem to have less clout now after all the mergers, etc. Several covers were pretty much exactly what I wanted (with little exceptions). Iron Gray Sea, Deadly Shores, Blood in the Water, are examples. I made suggestions for all, but Straits–and now Devil’s Due basically ignored them. Problem seems to be that the Art Dept does a cover before they really know what is going on and then it is incredibly hard to get them to change anything. On DD, they DID include the big battle flag, like I requested, but it was a 50 star flag! You would NOT believe how hard it was for me to get them to change THAT in the face of objections like “who will notice?” Really??? Since there is almost no publicity for established authors anymore, (they consider them on auto pilot and rely on word of mouth and social media–that’s why your reviews on Amazon, etc. are so important. (OF COURSE something as glaring as an anachronistic flag is a big deal because THEIR cover reflects on MY intelligence!) Anyway, generally (except for the resigned acceptance that they flat WON’T put people on the covers) I’ve been relatively pleased with them. They get attention and are at least more reflective of the story than most covers out there, so I shouldn’t really gripe. And at least Walker is depicted as a semblance of a 4-stacker!

      Reply
      1. By Steve Moore on

        Hope they don’t find the Taylor Andersons (the hot blondes) that keep popping up on search every now and then. The covers might start looking less like The Lost World and more like a Mickey Spillane thriller.

        Reply
    3. By Lou Schirmer on

      The guy’s name was John “Black Jack” Geary.

      So no old guys out there remember Bean Day? Interesting factoid:
      “Navy beans get their name because of the frequency they were served to sailors at sea. Navy beans are small in size and compatible in flavor and texture. Often used by commercial baked bean manufacturers, the Navy Bean is flexible. It could easily show up in your next batch of baked beans, soups, salads, casseroles, or ethnic dishes.”

      Reply
  17. By Matthieu on

    Understanding psychology….

    Given what the alliance knows about griks (if they are not completely stupid they are going to launch a major intelligence gathering among their griks city ones, the japaneses ones), they can use … hormones!

    Just imagine that they release one or two female griks right in the path of the swarm just before a battle. Discipline would fail immediately and they would jump at each other with modern weapons.

    Reply
    1. By Justin on

      I don’t think any Alliance members are callous enough to put any female in that frigging mosh pit. Both Grikesses would likely be dead, crippled, or at least physically and emotionally scarred.

      Dropping a stink bomb full of female Grik pheromones, on the other hand…

      Reply
      1. By Frank on

        How about just having a Nancy or flea-shooter crop dust a Grik hoard with female hormones. The resulting confusion and conflicted “messages” could have the effect of freezing the Grik in thier tracks.

        Reply
        1. By Steve Moore on

          Sort of like dropping a few delayed-action bombs along with the incendiaries just to keep Grik firemen on their toes.

          What would really mess things up is just dropping the pheromones on Old Soffessk, where the enlightened Hij hang out. Imagine what the blue-collar Uul are going to think when they see the mucky-mucks going sex-mad.

          Reply
          1. By donald j johnson on

            The common ull are not just going to watch the others go crazy the hormones will make them all go crazy. The whole place going to turn into a big mosh pit

    2. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

      That would be a wicked scheme (leave it to our Frenchman to counterattack with sex!) Ha! Justin’s refinement is a good notion.

      Reply
      1. By Clifton Sutherland on

        Not to mention it must be much easier to transport a stinky love bomb than an irritated She-Grik.

        Reply
      2. By Steve White on

        Harry Turtledove used that in his colonization series. The reptiles there went absolutely nuts with the scent of a woman, or alternatively, with a taste of ginger (it was cocaine/heroin to them). So maybe we need to find a different way to beat the Grik 😉

        Reply
      3. By Steve Moore on

        Wonder when the Union will get around to starting a USO. Makes you think how you find a Hope-like host who can entertain multiple species…

        Reply
    1. By Justin on

      Or spinosaurids (Suchomimus, Baryonyx, Spinosaurus) in the Zambezi and the Congo… even Gustav-sized crocs would be a regular occurence.

      Reply
      1. Taylor AndersonsBy Taylor Andersons on

        One might imagine so. The Mangoro R. Lizard Silva torpedoed in BITW had a little Spinosaurid vibe–and crocs are established.

        Reply
  18. By Steve Moore on

    This is probably a question for Taylor to answer. The rule is, no actual ships from Reddy’s WW2 world. We’ve seen an Amerika from a slightly different time line arrive, even though the Destroyerman world’s version did not leave the US after the war started in time to make it to the South Atlantic.

    That being said, logic would follow that ANYTHING without a double in the Destroyerman WW2 world is valid for transfer, since the ‘builders’ of the Squall see to have the ability to clone the Squall to different time lines. We know the LOT has been subjugating both human and non-human species; how about giving up on Hetzers and T-34s and come up with something REALLY to transfer in. How about a cruise ship full of Neanderthal-type hominids?

    Reply
    1. By Justin on

      I’ll let Gray and Sandra do the talking (Deadly Shores, Ch12):

      “…Now Bradford comes up with this new brainstorm that there ain’t just two ‘universes,’ but maybe gobs of ’em! That’s creepy as hell. It can’t be true, can it, Skipper? I mean, with swarms of screwy places folks could’ve come from, what else are we liable to run into? What if there’s some earth where Martians took over, an’ they’ve wound up here?”

      Sandra covered a smile by rubbing her chin. “I don’t think you need to worry about Martians, Mr. Gray. If Mr. Bradford’s ‘radio metaphor’ is right, such a historically distinctive ‘frequency’ should not be received . . . here.”

      In other words, Neanderthals, aliens and others would probably have another world to get dumped into – they’re on 96.9 FM, we’re on 101.1.

      Reply
    2. By Justin on

      That said, the rules seem a bit unclear when it comes to Lemurian, Gentaa or Grik transfers. Perhaps a pre-dreadnought full of Victorian monocle-wearing Grik could show up…

      “Well, this is a spot of luck! Good to find another bunch of civilized folk in these parts… dearie me, look at them go! What say you that we lend a hand against these dreadful savages?”

      Reply
      1. By Steve Moore on

        And we haven’t even brought up the subject of a group of Americans from a world where the South won the Civil War…. that subject’s been beaten to death by a number of authors.

        Reply
        1. By Matt on

          Probably about as much as the old Germans won WW2 trope. Maybe it’s been abused even more? Turtledove as much as I love his work has had more than one story involving the south winning. One involved time traveling south Africans and the other ended up with a southern Hitler.

          Reply
          1. By Clifton Sutherland on

            Jake Featherston was quite the son of a gun.

      2. By Alexey Shiro on

        //That said, the rules seem a bit unclear when it comes to Lemurian, Gentaa or Grik transfers. //

        Or M’fishes. They clearly are from some VERY different world.

        So, I think, that Bradford would change his theory after a while.

        P.S. It would be really interesting to know, what League scientist thought about the multiverse… They have more scientifically-trained personnel, and more time to work it out.

        Maybe in some attempt to defuse the relations a bit League would agree to participate in a scientific conference, say, in Alexaandra?

        Reply
      3. By Clifton Sutherland on

        Yeah, I cant remember if we ever discussed this, but this receiver world, so to speak, must have a native species. It is likely either the Grik or Lemurians, although both are seemingly limited geographically. Maybe it was those who built “the Palace of Forgotten Gods”? For all we know, those original native species could have been displaced in Africa and the Pacific by Grik, Humans, and Lemurians. Perhaps the originals are still out there, somewhere?

        Reply
  19. By Justin on

    Assuming it’s the League against Greeks/Romans/Phoenicians/Byzantines, remember that dreadnoughts have ram bows – I suspect that even cruising speed would be fatal to a galley.

    Reply
    1. By Matt on

      And while I’m sure a trireme ramming a destroyer would hurt it, it would be far from fatal and it would only scuff the paint on an armored battleship.

      Reply
      1. By donald j johnson on

        The galleys would only Ram a Destroyer if the five hundred or so grick’s onboard were trying to capture the Destroyer and at that point they wouldn’t care what happened to their Galley as long as they captured the Destroyer. They wouldn’t know how to run it but they would have it. The smart new gricks would have the understanding to keep alive as many of the crew members as possible so they would run the ship for the Griks. However the odds of this happening would be very low because even the 50 caliber is on board would be sufficient to sync the galley at close ramming range.

        Reply
  20. By Matthieu on

    Galley galley and galleys

    I don’t know why but we’re going to discuss a lot about galleys. Galleys have numerous advantages and drawbacks
    – limited range (for lack of water)
    – not really seaworthy (that’s why they were limited to the med and baltic sea)
    – limited sustained speed. The shortest distance between Africa and Madagascar is 400 km. If we assume that their speed is 8 knots (it’s very optimistic for them and assumes that they can use the wind and row at the same time), they need 28 hours to cross the channel.
    – On each of them (assuming that they are using blueprints captured from Greeks or Romans or something like that), the most efficient shape (a trireme) stacks close to 200 people on a single ship.
    – if you want to move 100.000, you need close to 500 ships but it assumes that they come “light” (with only hand weapons, no ammunition nor artillery).

    Now just assume that you want to sink many of them. What should you do? In 1940 the British navy was planning to run at high speed just on front of German barges to swamp them.

    Reply
    1. By steve moore on

      Well, if they get held back by stormy weather, just assign more Griks to the galley to keep the stewpots full.

      Reply
  21. By Jeff on

    Liked Devil’s Due very much. These books always take two passes; one to see what happens right away and the other to absorb detail. Waiting on June 2018 now …

    To revive a topic that no one other than me seems to care about much: who would play who in a theoretical movie?

    I only recently found HBO’s Deadwood and binge watched it. Indeed, I easily see Leon Rippy as Chief Gray as Taylor mentioned several months ago. Timothy Olyphant would make a pretty good Captain Reddy too.

    That said, I’m grabbing a ’03 and headed to the range. I’ll be the only one there imagining bipedal lizards.

    Reply

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