5,672 COMMENTS :

  1. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

    This has been nagging me for a while, I miscounted the number of planes their 5 carriers would have at full compliment when I did the blockade strategy, 450-470, I forgot to count Big Sals’ assembled aircraft.

    Taylor, any hints at when we should expect an excerpt for WoW? Hints at how many Repub CAPs will be in the squadron? Or what they would consider a squadron?

    How hard/easy could it be for them to start making cars/jeeps and half-tracks, or should they make something like the kangaroo?

    How long would it take for them to consider making helicopters?

    For after they have hopefully defeated the grik and doms and the league has withdrawn to the Med, around 1948ish would it be realistic to convert obsolete walker copies into a kind of AA escort destroyer? Give them a 4.7 or 5″ DP for the #1 and 4 guns depending on which is deemed more efficiet, replace the #2,3 and the Nancy, possibley the torpedoes, and put as many 25 gun tubs there as possible. Keep it close to the capital ships to act as a personal AA platform, and as an area denial ship for league planes, pretty much a poor man’s Cleveland class cl. Could they do something similar with the Gray class as well, or is this a terrible idea? I figured since they are Walker copies, and in a way symbolic of Walker, they would want to keep them running for a while.

    What did they use for fuel for WWII rockets? What do they use for modern missiles?

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    1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

      “What did they use for fuel for WWII rockets? What do they use for modern missiles?”

      WW2 rockets usually used sticks of smokeless powder; cordite, ballistite, or analogues. It have a good thrust, but burned very quickly and wasn’t exactly very stable.

      Modern rockets usually used perchlorate-based solid fuel. It is capable of much longer & steadier burning, thus providing long, continuous thrust.

      Also, a great advance was made in the solid fuel block shapes. While WW2 rocket engines were essentially sticks of powder in the rocket chamber, the modern rocket engines are large slab of solid fuel, with complex-shape channels (star-shaped, for example) drilled through them, so the fuel would burn continuously and exactly at same rate.

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    2. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

      There was a design study done to modify the 4-pipers for better battery arrangement. They could do something like that. Replacing the aft torpedo tubes with 25mm mounts, the 3′ for another 25mm & all the guns for either a 4.7″ or 5″ battery. The 4″ works quite well though, so, in the interests of conserving time & resources, they may just rearrange the 4″ DPs.

      https://ptdockyardat.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/us-1919-wickes-modification002.jpg

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  2. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

    Random thought, could USNRS Salissa be considered honorary BB-1 and Maky-Kat honorary BB-2 or would it be BBCV-1 and 2?

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      1. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

        Walk sea acted like a battleship during the Indiaa campaign,she also had a 10″ and managed to sink one of two grik battleships. Then Maky-kat acted like one during the malpelo battle, hence the honorary BB, then they are also carriers so BBCV battleship carrier.

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        1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

          With all respect, but the USN classification are defining what the ship is, not what it done. It’s intended function, not what he was forced to perform. Otherwise battleships would have CV designation because they carry spotter planes, and destroyers would be motor torpedo boats, because, well, they have motors and torpedoes.

          Classification exist to make designation of the ships simpler, to reduce the possibility of misidentification and communication mistakes. There no such thing as “honorable battleship”.

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  3. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

    P.S. One early guidance technology that worked surprisingly well was the flare-seeker. Essentially it was a photoelectric cell seeker, rigged to track the bright flare on the blackened surface in nighttime. The idea was, that the agent on a ground or low-flying fast plane would mark the target at night by igniting flares nearby – and the incoming bombers would drop the flare-seeking bomb, that would home on bright flares on the dark background. Thus the accuracy of the nighttime bombing could be improved greatly.

    The USAAF tested such seeker by installing it on the GB-4 type glide bomb. It worked not just well; it worked much better than anticipated, with some bombs scoring direct hits (!) on a flares. Turns out that 1940s tech was pretty good in discriminating the bright light source on the dark background. Unfortunately, the war was closing, and the program was abandoned.

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  4. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

    When the GA defeat the Grik (hopefully) and manage one way or another to recreate/make from scratch themselves/capture the plans of the Yanone could they make an unmanned version then put it on something that could carry it like a torpedo, and manage to launch it? Because of wood and fabric construction, also with what happened to that one PB-5 in PoF, they might need to either reinforce that area or have some kind of delayed start ignition system for it. If they can get it to work it should help them with the league,and as in a previous discussion,they could fill the cockpit area with some kind of guidance system maybe?

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    1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

      The guided weapon for Alliance is withing their capabilities. Primitive forms of remote radio control (like stepping switch encoding) were known even before World War I. Destroyermen from “Walker” and “Mahan” clearly must knew about remote-controlled systems: the USN used radio-controlled target ships and planes long before the war.

      The Alliance could with relatively small efforts develop the radio-controlled glide- or vertical bomb. Some AZON analogue would probably be most efficient: a vertical bomb, controlled by operator in azimuth only (AZimuth ONly – AZON). It would require essentially just one control channel and just two commands – “Left” and “Right” – but this would increase the bombing accuracy by an order of magnitude. You would still need a gyro, though, to stabilize the bomb roll (it’s essential for the radio-controlled bomb that both bomb and operator were in agreement where exactly is “right” and where “left”, i.e. bomb should not be allowed to rotate along the longitudinal axis in flight).

      More complex systems, like homing (self-guided) bombs are also actually possible. The Alliance level of technology theoretically allow them to produce selenium photoelectric cell (they were used on the photo cameras of this era to measure the illumination). Which could be used as a part of automatic seeker, capable of homing on the contrast point on monotonous background – like a ship in the sea. It would took some time to develop all the automatic required, though.

      Infrared homing are also possible. The primitive heat-sensitive devices (bolometers) were known since late XIX century. The Republic tech level clearly allow them to build such things, which then may be used as part of bomb seekers to hit heat-emanating targets (like ships or industrial plants). Essentially it would be the primitive analogues of VB-6 “Felix” and ASM-N-4 “Dove” infrared-homing bombs, developed by USAAF and USN at the end of World War 2.

      (sorry for a long post, but early guided weaponry is my personal sphere of interests. Without much boasting, I could honestly state that there are very few peoples in the world that know more than me about it)

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      1. AvatarBy Doug White on

        Alexey I have to say I’ve always enjoyed your posts begin I know I am bound to learn a few things. Pretty cool reading the latest enthusiastic newbie postings and the equally knowledgeable postings explaining the reasons for and against. Good job to one and all!

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        1. AvatarBy Taylor Anderson on

          Indeed. I’m enjoying this conversation a lot. You know, as the guy who writes the yarn you guys are talking about, and the only one who already knows for sure what is going to happen, I get a huge kick out of your speculation. It’s fun to watch you guess things right, and fun to watch you guess wrong, because everyone here always has well reasoned perspectives for their views. Of course, the most fun for me is when nobody’s guesses are even close:).
          Oh, and I freely admit I learn stuff here too. Always great, informative posts no matter what the subject.

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    2. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

      Could they take a down sized Yanone, with steel warhead, use gas fuel instead of gunpowder, and improved parts, and fill the entire font section with explosives, then put it in a PB-5 Clipper with the bottom of the fuselage removed and landing gear put on, and wing floats taken off, or carry 2 the size of torpedoes, like torpedoes if possible with less modification. They might need to make a special rig for it to increase accuracy consistency, then have one of those friction thingies they use on the cannons with, say 5 yards of length, so you can drop it and let it get to a safe distance from the bomber, then it snaps taught and starts it like a lawn mower, igniting the fuel, before snapping of, sending it at the target. I say they use this as an intermediate before developing guided systems because they can start almost immediately with their acquisition of the grik industry, then when things cool down they could start on a guided version. This would give them a ship killer missile quickly and that is easy to produce.
      A possible attack formation could be for the bombers to come at the targeted ship in a staggered column at high altitude, go into a shallow dive to aim it at the target, then using lemurian bombardiers fire the rocket. Considering they are in bombers I would suggest it be at a safe distance, firing when the enemy AA does. If the rocket still has fuel in it when it hits it could become a kind of Armour piercing fire bomb. I would use it to attack the superstructure of the ship (preferably used against big, slow targets) as a way to damage and destroy their AA systems, while also having a chance of doing significant internal and fire damage, hopefully making it a less deadly target for the next wave of planes to attack.

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      1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

        “use gas fuel instead of gunpowder, ”

        Of course not. Liquid-fuel rockets are much more complex than solid-fuel. It would took them years just to develop a theory of rocket engines, much more to make anything of practical use.

        “so you can drop it and let it get to a safe distance from the bomber, then it snaps taught and starts it like a lawn mower, igniting the fuel, before snapping of, sending it at the target”

        One problem: how exactly you would persuade such projectile to fly to target? As you described it, it is basically a rocket-propelled glide bomb, and without guidance it would not even have enough accuracy to hit a big city. Most probably, it would start to zig-zag and fell into uncontrolled dive immediately after ignition.

        “This would give them a ship killer missile quickly and that is easy to produce.”

        How could you suppose to hit the ship without actually guiding this thing? Seriously, this just did not work at all. With the weapon as you described – essentially just bomb with wings and rocket booster – you could not even be sure that it would fly into the rough direction of the enemy. It could easily spin around and fly into opposite.

        Even with gyro autopilot, the accuracy would barely be enough to hit cities, not ships. USAAF in Europe used Aeronca GB-1 glide bombs; essentially it was a very crude wooden glider (just a wing and twin-boom tail of most primitive form) with 2000-pdr bomb underneath. It was equipped with azimuth gyro, so it was supposed to maintain the heading after release. The accuracy still was just barely enough to achieve hits on a city, not on a specific target.

        “A possible attack formation could be for the bombers to come at the targeted ship in a staggered column at high altitude, go into a shallow dive to aim it at the target, then using lemurian bombardiers fire the rocket. ”

        Seriously, it would be much more practical to just ask Lemurian to volunteer on kamikaze mission. Less losses, more effect.

        Sorry, but your idea is completely unworkable.

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        1. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

          I was thinking they would have act like a giant Tiny Tim rocket, just with modifications on the bomber so the back blast does not damage or destroy the bomber, guess I over thought that part, and didn’t know about the gas part as well. But could they make some kind of giant Tiny Tim ship killer or just a Tiny Tim?

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          1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            It would not work. The aerodynamic of such large rocket would be extremely problematic, and the imbalance of its engine burning would essentially made its course completely unpredictable.

        2. AvatarBy Steve Moore on

          Damn, Alexey, maybe you should start writing books.

          Taylor, it just struck me that there is one thing the DM world seems to be lacking. Cheese. Sitting here with a nice slice of pizza, and… damn, are going to find the LOT has cornered the world’s supply?

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          1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            Well, I’m… trying) Some short fiction stories, and a bit of historical articles into some web magazines. Also, I’m doing a big series of articles about World War 2 guided weapon on my LiveJournal blog: I already finished with Japanese, Italian, British and French ones, and currently write about Americans. My big ambition is to eventually put all this articles together, redact them, and put into a book.

          2. AvatarBy Taylor Anderson on

            He should. And good God, man! You’re right! How have they ever survived so long without cheese???

          3. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

            You mean they didn’t!?!? But they were making sandwiches! I thought that would mean they had cheese! Could they use rhino pig milk to make it?

          4. AvatarBy Justin on

            It’s entirely possible to have sandwiches without cheese. Pizza OTOH is going to turn out horrible.

            That said, the odds are pretty good that the Republic has cattle.

  5. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

    What would be likelihood of waiting for the league’s forces to get old, or would by then they have indoctrinated the population?

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    1. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

      Any estimates on league troop numbers?
      How likely would it be for the German forces to revolt against the league?

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      1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

        Not much. Germans might grumble about their position in League hierarchy, but League is much more familiar for them than any other nation or power block. Most likely, Germans would try to use Alliance as a leverage to gain themselves more power within the League (and frankly, I would not advise it. Germans of 1930s were bad even without Nazi; their ideas of racial superiority were much more deeply-rooted).

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    2. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

      They would clearly both indoctrinate the locals, and multiply by natural way. Fascism supported population growth, viewing it as “making nation(s) stronger”.

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      1. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

        So the GA’s only chance of beating them would be for them to come to them, or they get some NATO shipments for the Korean or Vietnam war. I’ll leave it to you with how the Russian’s would respond to the situation.

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        1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

          What I meant to explain, is that there are no magic recipe that Alliance could use to quickly defeat the League. Short of receiving some really game-changing things, they would be forced to fight another war of attrition. And I really doubt that Alliance members would eagerly support such measure – especially immediately after long and bloody Grik war.

          There may be local conflicts about the specific parts of each spheres of influence. This is perfectly possible. But it would most likely be the local struggles, not the “death or victory” kind.

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          1. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

            So they will be stuck in a stalemate kind of like how the Doms and NUS were. GA can’t attack the league’s territory without being slaughtered, and the league can’t venture out for fear of being attacked by carrier aircraft. Of course the league could start their own carries but will all experience.

          2. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

            The league carriers will lack experience. (Sorry for the spelling and grammar errors I use a combination of tablet and computer depending on convenience.) Though sadly the league could probably still batter through to defeat the GA especially if given time to indoctrinate and reproduce with the locals. Hopefully taking heavy casualties.
            That brings to mind, what will they do with the non-humans? Use them as a slave labor class?

          3. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            Essentially, League have better potential in mid-therms (next ten years), when their engineering advantage kick in. They could create better weapon than Alliance & much faster.

            But in long-therms (a few decades(, the Alliance would start to surpass the League due to more open internal policy and greater manpower potential.

  6. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

    Speaking of tanks – I just realized that heavy sloped sides like on T-34 (which helped greatly to improve protection but also limited the internal volume, making tank quite cramped), would not present that much problems for Lemurian crews than to humans. Lemurians are small; they would not mind too much a tank, extremely cramped by human standards. The T-34 three-man turret, considered as confined by human crews, would be rather spacey for Lemurians, probably allowing them to even fit the additional crew member inside.

    And, of course, T-34 have the advantages of being relatively simple to produce, having good cross-country ability. While it’s aluminum-made engine may be problematic, there were successful experiments & small series with cast-iron engines.

    Now, the main problem is how Alliance may obtain the T-34-76 tank?…

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    1. AvatarBy Justin on

      No reason they can’t make their own, or at least a cheap knockoff. In theory, a 1.5″ frontal plate at 45° should bounce anything at standard ranges (short of an 88, at least). Bolt on a 254hp Fleashooter engine and an adequate suspension, and that’s a solid light/medium tank for ’39 standards.

      Assuming the Allies find a decent AT gun somewhere, of course – the Derby might not cut it, and apparently the 3″/23 is even worse than that.

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      1. AvatarBy Paul Smith on

        The Alliance maybe able to reproduce something like the 3″ m3 the sherman used. with a 40 caliber barrel(120 in.) and maybe a stretched case to go from 500 meters/sec to 600+. Using a down-sized 4″/50 AP shell, since the 3″ only had common, AA & illumination.

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      2. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

        Actually, the 3″/23 would make a pretty decent tank gun & is far better than the Derby gun. The USN often used it as a “Landing Gun” by putting it on a wheeled carriage, so it’s light enough to use as artillery or as an anti-tank gun & easily light enough for a tank gun. All they need to do is make an AP round for it & it would be able to handle any armor the LOT might be able to field from the late 1930s.
        http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_3-23_mk13.php

        The suspension & transmission will be the hard part to work out on any “modern” tank design. They have a gun. They have an engine. They can make a turret. Transmission & suspension design & geometry will take a while to work out the bugs, to keep it semi-reliable.

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        1. AvatarBy Justin on

          I hear you. Gearboxes are hard – and it doesn’t matter how much cool stuff you’ve got if the chassis can’t take it.

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    2. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

      They came through in ’42 so they might know about it because it showed up in 1940. They might know the general shape of it, and they are already doing similar things with their tanks if my interpretation of “turtle shell shaped” hull is correct. And don’t forget about the lemurians’ tails, last thing they need is for the turret ring to snatch their tail in the middle of combat.

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      1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

        Well, I doubt that US sailors of Philippines have much knowledge about Soviet land warfare equipment. Just not exactly their sphere of interest.

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        1. AvatarBy Michael Clitheroe on

          I would have to agree that it would be fairly unlikely that the crew would know much. I assumed the tanks built so far would have looked like the interwar types. Not much like a T34. Of course something like My Boy Willie, the mark one British tank from the great war would do the job

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    3. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

      They have aluminum from various planes they have come across and scrapped Seahawks and the PBY.

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      1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

        They have, but its only a very limited supply. It probably more valuable for them as chemical material, then as raw material for planes. I think Alliance should better start working with steel alloys: they are easier to produce, and not much heavier.

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  7. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

    With the League getting more involved, would it be feasable to arm Walker copies with larger guns? Like a 4.7 for that extra bit of punch, or would it be better to have the normal 4″ armament for its faster rate of fire?
    Are any of Amagi’s 10″ left? If so are they augmenting Fort Atkinsons battery, and maybe some given to Manilaa, or sent to arm the New Britain’s heavier ships?

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    1. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

      They put 5″ guns on a couple of Clemsons & all were designed to be able to carry them, but it never happened, so a 4.7″ copy would work fine & the rate of fire wouldn’t drop by much. They can only run so many projects at a time though & I guess they went for the 5.5″ guns for the cruiser first.

      There should be a few 10″ guns running around somewhere. Amagi had ten of them after all. One was on the Santa Catalina, but was breached & cut down to use. IIRC a couple more had the same treatment & were installed on Homes, but were later removed for some reason. I think they made shore batteries out of those & maybe the rest of them as well. They may also be studying on how to make more, using one or two for templates.

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      1. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

        Thanks! Another question. What are they going to do with Savoie’s damaged gun? Will they take her to the Republic to have it replaced, or get a replacement from Balkpaan, or just leave it?

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        1. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

          That’s up to Taylor. If I was them, I’d take it to the Republic, as you said & see if they could fix it or examine it to see how it’s made, or both. They’re building their own navy & heavy ships, so would be interested in seeing semi-modern ordnance. However, them being in the middle of a war & the LOT escalating, they may make what repairs they can & send her to the America’s with seven guns. We’ll see in June.

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          1. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

            Think they will remove some of U112s 5″ battery? Replace one of or both with 4″ DP guns for faster rate of fire, more ammunition, and better streamlining without the turrets or smaller ones (maybe). Then they can try to put the guns on a Walker copy or a new cruiser. Of course you might want to let it keep the forward turret for emergency defence purposes.
            They said it could fit an arado floatplane, but got rid of it to add more range to its already great range. Could they fit a Nancy in its place or is a Nancy to big?

          2. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

            Probably not. They’ll probably leave her as is & just make up a batch of 5″ ammo for her. They’re already making 5.5s for the cruiser & with them in production, can put them on any new build cruisers or as a secondary battery for any heavier ships to be built. They may be working on 4.7s for any new DDs, since they’ve had Amagi’s for examples.
            As far as carrying an airplane, the tube the Arado fit into was about 6.5′ in diameter. It was apparently a very unsatisfactory plane & was never built in numbers. A torn down Nancy would never fit, way too big. They could fit a hard side fold up landing boat for raiding/scouting purposes though. Something tough enough to hold out flashies & carry a squad of soldiers might work. Put a heavily muffled Nancy engine on it & you’re moving along.

          3. AvatarBy Justin on

            Doesn’t seem like a good idea to have a brand new production line for just one cruiser sub. If they can refit her with 5.5s or 4.7s without messing up her integrity or handling, that might work better.

            Liking the Raider Battalion idea; let’s hope there’s a good target for it.

          4. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

            True. They may go with Mason’s idea of replacing them with 4″/50 DP mounts, or better yet, twin 4″/50 DP mounts. It’s what they have now & we don’t even know if the 4.7s are even going to be built.

          5. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

            Speaking of raiding, if they let U112 keep her 5.5″ think they could have her sneak up to an enemy port at night a fire a couple salvos then slip away?
            Unrelated question but do you think they could have the old Zanzibar tank guard the entrance to the Celestial Palace since it will have trouble keeping up and has less guns and older equipment?

          6. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            “Speaking of raiding, if they let U112 keep her 5.5″ think they could have her sneak up to an enemy port at night a fire a couple salvos then slip away?”

            Sneaking into enemy port on submarine is always… problematic. There were examples, of course – such as sinking of the HMS “Royal Oak” – but the general agreement is, that it is not what large subs are good for. Considering U112 – nah, she is not able to do it with any effect. She is slow to dive (as essentially all cruiser submarines were), noisy, ect. And her 5-inch guns aren’t exactly very long-range or have significant power.

            Underwater monitor, like “Surcouf”, could probably attempt to shell enemy port from safe distance by silently sneaking into range.

          7. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

            Any chance of having U112 blockade the straits of Gibraltar when she gets repaired and crewed? I would think with water levels lower it would be something like at most 8 or 7, at least 2 or 3 miles wide at the narrowest. Should be fairly easy to blockade if they have some carriers stationed near it with Lou’s STD-1 and P-2 designs Then some Republic Legate class cruiser, RRPS Amerika and Savoie if she survives long enough. This will of course be much latter when they have the numbers and tech to do this.
            Think the Republic will name one of their CAPs Santa Catalina but in German in Santy Cats honour?

          8. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            Hardly. Submarines are generally… not well-suited for operating on predictable positions. As soon as element of surprise wear off (let’s not forget, League would not just dismiss the idea of Alliance obtaining submarines, either by new transfer, or by building them), League destroyers and aviation would start to hunt the sub. And in League-controlled battlespace, she would not survive for long.

          9. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            ” Should be fairly easy to blockade if they have some carriers stationed near it”

            And how long those carriers would survive in the range of League aviation? The carrier main advantage is it’s mobility; it is also it’s greatest problem, because carriers have no standing power due to it. Let’s not forget; League have both German-type dive bombers and Italian trimotors, and they are very dangerous opponents. Current Alliance air defenses are completely inadequate for dealing with modern planes.

            What exactly Alliance ships have against air attacks? 4-inch DP guns with primitive fire control and probably not very reliable time fuses. And heavy machineguns. Their crews aren’t exactly well-trained in fighting modern planes also. Under League air attacks, they could provide only token resistance.

          10. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

            The 4″ DP guns did well against Jap-Grik planes, though they were probably smaller, the 2 engine one I would think would be around the size of the Stuka, stukas were also slow, the Italian torpedo bomber (I’m guessing it is the SM-79) is a big target, though I don’t know how fast it is. The MMes could pose a threat but that’s why I suggested the use of the P-2s, I was thinking this would be after they defeat the grik and doms and (hopefully) win the big naval battle in winds of wrath then after like a 3 year cold war between them. The P-2 was designed by Loupy as a plane they can make that could beat the MMe (Love your planes and ship designs on deviant art Lou!) and the STD-1 would fill the gap of torpedo/dive bomber/fighter bomber role well. The Legate class cruiser is also supposed to be a counter to the Leagues cruisers and was said to be able to deal with anything that could catch it due to league’s lack of maintenance on ships. Of course things could change by the time this would take place but then they would have improved on it by then as well. The Republic Amerika BB design was commented on looking like the HMS dreadnought but with only 3 turrets, but again, by the time they face each other they would have made improvements on it. They would also most likely have many, many Walker copies and Gray class cl’s (improved as well). Not to mention whatever the Brits cook up. Somewhere around at least 5 carriers as well (seeing as the league being the only threat left as of PoF they can now focus almost all their naval might in a small area) should be expected with 60-80 planes on each. They could only have P-1Cs and still shred the first couple of waves of enemy fighter with those odds, albeit with heavy casualties on their part. But with all the ships, and planes would the league wish to endanger their irreplaceable modern planes? They could repair them for a long while probably, but they have no way of getting new pilots, the chance of letting their conquered peoples fly in them are almost 0, and they need the troops to maintain order around the med. If they did have U112 patrol around the straits then any flights they send would have to be in force for fear of being jumped by Grand Alliance planes.
            Examples being:
            Ignore watching for their planes, focus on looking for the submarine and get boom and zoomed by P-2s
            Or: Watch out for planes and miss the sub.
            They could build airfields for the planes to take off from, but those could be bombed by masses PB-5s, also most likely improved, and escorted by P-2s. The leagues navy might still be able to batter its way through but would be under attack the whole way, and once away from air cover be mercilessly attacked by planes. Then, how much material could they spare? They still need to keep their presence over their “subjects” If it escalates to war the Grand Alliance could do something like operation Whipsaw 2, the majority of league naval and air might focused on the blockade would open up an opportunity to attack from the south on land.

          11. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

            Continuing my last comment: They could attack form the south on land if feasible, if so, their infantry will be better armed, and trained. If they have any bolt action allin silvas it will be especially unpleasant for the league troops dealing .50-80 bullets whizzing by and blowing big holes in their fellows. Then Chack’s raiders could have been practicing parachute drops with the maroons, have the raiders parachute somewhere that would cause havoc, but still close enough to be relieved by the main force, while the Maroons get dropped far behind enemy lines and start guerrilla campaigns, hopefully with local help. This will draw league planes away to help their army, further spreading their forces. Then while they focus on fighting the G.A. their subjugated peoples will most likely revolt, causing further problems for their forces. So while the league army looses men, the G.A. army will grow with fresh recruits and locals joining their ranks. This depletion of their forces would make them less likely to want to commit to face to face fights. Then about the AA for GA ships, they will know that they will be facing league planes at some point and would train accordingly to improve proficiency. Did some calculation and if all the current aircraft carriers were to have full compliments and sent there for this proposed blockade, they would have 400-420 aircraft in all with the current PB-1B, F and P-1B and C.

          12. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

            Mason, my Legate class cruiser is a follow on to whatever type the Republic is currently working on & not necessarily what they’ll build. I based it on the SMS Scharnhorst, which the German contingent should have some knowledge of. The Amerika design was just a quick imagining of what the Republic is building, based on some hints & vague restrictions from Taylor. We’re three books past those hints & it looks like whatever they’re building, it won’t be anything like the Amerika. It’s currently supposed to be a “kind” of protected cruiser, which makes little sense, as those were considered obsolete well before the Germans showed up & they would know it. We’ll have to wait & see what Taylor’s fevered imagination comes up with.

          13. AvatarBy Justin on

            Yeah, this is a whole lot of guesswork. As it is, they’ve got a handful of DDs, one DL/CL, one sub, one under-the-weather BB, and wooden CVs carrying interwar-era planes. Let’s table any “blockade the Med” plans at least until next book.

          14. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            ” the Italian torpedo bomber (I’m guessing it is the SM-79) is a big target, though I don’t know how fast it is. ”

            SM.79 could reach 460 km/h top speed, i.e. more than 2 times faster than any Grik-piloted bombers. They are extremely capable opponents.

            *The Legate class cruiser is also supposed to be a counter to the Leagues cruisers*

            I doubt really serious that Legate-class cruiser would be able to “counter” even League destroyer. It is the ship, build on the technology more than 20 years behind the League’s, and by nation (Republic) that have virtually zero experience in large ocean-capable warship design.

            *They would also most likely have many, many Walker copies and Gray class cl’s (improved as well). *

            It would took YEARS to build a significant number of them. Not to mention that “Wickes”-class destroyer are very obsolete design by itself.

          15. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            *Continuing my last comment: They could attack form the south on land if feasible, if so, their infantry will be better armed, and trained. If they have any bolt action allin silvas it will be especially unpleasant for the league troops dealing .50-80 bullets whizzing by and blowing big holes in their fellows. *

            Sigh. And now try to imagine how “unpleasant” it would be for Alliance to see their troops being butchered on spot by avalanche of artillery shells without even being able to shot their laughable Allin-Silva’s.

            League have MODERN army. Modern by 1939 standards, at least. They have well-trained troops, equipped with large number of heavy weaponry, coordinated, supported by armor and heavy artillery. While Alliance army until very recently was still fighting in tight formations with shields and spears!

            If Alliance make any landing on League territory – any at all – it would be crushed with enormous ease. You just did not realize, how enormous is the League advantage. There would be no tight battle; the Alliance army would be devastated by League superior artillery (French artillery in 1939 was essentially the best), and then finished by League armor & infantry attacks, supported by mobile forces punching through Alliance rear. It is not possible for Alliance army to survive such attack; they have neither training no right weaponry.

            *while the Maroons get dropped far behind enemy lines and start guerrilla campaigns,*

            …Are you seriously suggesting starting the guerilla campaign on unknown territory, without any local support? It would end rather quickly with both Chack troops & Maroons completely lost in wilderness, shouting “Help!!! Somebody, PLEASE, get us out of here!”

          16. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

            I thought of it taking place around 1950, if every thing goes right, and the doms are defeated by 1947, then a kind of cold war arms race for 3 or so years building up their might and improving weapons, not immediately attacking them with what they have, which would be suicide. THEN, they should have better weapons after having 3 years to improve without needing to just get out good stuff and can focus on better stuff, like bolt action rifles, Springfield and Allin-Silva variants, and better artillery as well. It was supposed to be a “If everything goes right they could PROBABLY do this” scenario.

          17. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            And why do you assume that League would spend those years doing nothing? They have the largest supply of well-trained engineers and technicians in the whole world. They could easily outpace Alliance technologically. By 1950, they would already have their own aircraft industry – and considering that their cadre base is MUCH better, they would build mid-1930s aircraft.

            Yes, they would probably be forcesd to switch on wood from aluminum. No matter: they could switch to CANT Z.1007 Alcione. For Alliance planes and air defenses it still would be overwhelming opponent. And League obviously understood the role of Gibraltar. They probably put all their efforts to turn it into impenetrable fortress. Multi-layered land defense with minefields and artillery bunkers, numerous airfields with concrete runways (and maybe even aircraft shelters for planes), heavy guns from ships, that were beached during transfer.

        1. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

          I know they might not use either, but I liked them and needed an example of something powerful they could build that would intimidate the league. Plus you said that they could modify the Legate over time, which also fit with the scenario.

          Reply
          1. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

            Oh, it’s all buildable with their tech, it’s just what Taylor’s actually going to have them build, bounced against time & resource limitations.

  8. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

    This was probably discussed way back when the series first came out, but thought I’d ask anyway.

    How does anything survive in the oceans with essentially, sea going piranha (flashies) infesting it? I can see Mountain Fish as they may have adequate armor to fend them off & being possibly alien, may not taste good, but anything else should be vulnerable. Grikkaa for instance, while able to eat a few flashies, would be in-turn shredded by the rest of the swarm. Smaller food fish may be fast or maneuverable enough to avoid them for the most part, but anything larger would be prey for the flashies. Just curious.

    Reply
    1. AvatarBy Justin on

      Surprisingly, the feeding frenzy behaviour depicted in mass media is limited to the red-bellied piranha, and usually because of provocation or starvation. Otherwise, they’re a bunch of scavengers… wimps, too.

      Theory A) Flashies hunt individually – easy pickings for anything bigger than them. They’re drawn by noise and disturbance (like sharks are), because they know there’s probably table scraps.

      Theory B) Flashies are shoaling fish, but they lack the instincts or brains to attack in groups. So gri-kakka and other large predators trigger the “avoid” response, but small targets splashing around a lot are definite prey. Maybe some schools follow ships, thinking they’re predators.

      Reply
      1. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

        Think there could be a “you stay in your area and he in ours” thing going on? Grikakaa try to go into shallow water and are picked apart by large swarms of flashies, while if flashies go out into deep water they can get separated and picked of by larger things like Grikakaa, or gulped down by mountain fish.

        Reply
        1. AvatarBy Taylor Anderson on

          Actually a good subject for naturalists to speculate upon and I long intended to have Courtney do so in an appropriate passage, but his interests have become more martial of late and such an episode seemed like an inappropriate inclusion. There HAVE been numerous, perhaps sufficient, hints for readers to come to their own conclusions however, given various descriptions of their behavior, where they are encountered (and pursued by fishing fleets) and just as important, when. Recall also that the largest concentrations seem to be in shallow ( but not rough) water, and all the waters within the Malay barrier are relatively shallow. Personally, I’ve always kind of imagined them as a more voracious cross between tuna and stripers, with appearance and behavioral attributes of both, plus some other adaptations. Interaction with other species can be deduced from textual descriptions as well. For example, they and grikakka only gather together when there is sufficient prey to draw them both. It may therefore be assumed one or both otherwise avoids the other.

          Reply
          1. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

            They also seem to avoid the Deathbird Island, Donaghey visited & lost the boat crew.

  9. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

    Taylor, I was looking at your PB-1F Nancy drawing again today. Did you mean to draw it with a single row radial? I may be blind (getting old), but it looks like a single row of cylinders.
    It actually makes better sense to use the 5-cylinder engine on such a light airframe. Being air cooled, it would not weigh much, if any, more than the 4-cylinder water cooled W/G, the aircraft’s balance would be better & there wouldn’t be as much stress on the air frame with a 105 hp increase.

    Reply
  10. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

    Taylor, any hints on what kind of tanks we should expect from the LoT? Considering the time they came through, the best the Germans would have would possibly be an early pz iv. But at the 1939 time period it would have a short 75mm gun, but not the best AT gun. Pz III would be armed with a 50, or a 37. There is the pz II and the pz 38. They might have stug IIIs. The French tanks would be B1s Somua’s, H35s, and ft17. Italy I’m not so sure, tankettes, and that about all they had by ’39. No idea about spanish. Of course they could have completely different vehicles from their world. How thick is the grik smushers armour? I would think with it being sloped it should easily stand up to everything except the 75 on the pzIV and the B1.
    Have you considered making a kind of flak truck out of some of the Grand Alliance tanks? Take out the top middle, make the sides be able to fold down, then put a Republican 75 or a 3inch maybe a 4inch in the space provided? Might need a raise platform so it can fire strait ahead and backwards. Of course you will want to have better suspension, but otherwise viola! You have an SPG that can double as AA.

    Reply
    1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

      ” I would think with it being sloped it should easily stand up to everything except the 75 on the pzIV and the B1.”

      Essentially it very thin. Bullet-proof at most. They MAYBE able to resist AP bullets by heavy MG’s, but not any kind of anti-tank guns.

      Reply
      1. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

        But they are bouncing 9 and 16 pounder cannon shots at point blank range. Do they not have much penetration and/or power behind it then. This is why I need amour specifications. If it is a weak as you say, then any AT gun the league has will probably go strait through.

        Reply
        1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

          Round shot from 9-pdr blackpowder cannon have very low penetration. It’s muzzle velocity is about 400-450 m/s, and considering shape, brittle material and deflection angles, it would not penetrate even anti-splinter armor.

          Reply
  11. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

    Also deviantart artists, are we going to get any leo, and Savoie pictures soon? And new tank pictures as well?

    Reply
    1. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

      In LoT it says the Republic was sending a squadron of their new CAPs to help the NUS, how many would you say are in the squadron? Lou put it as submitted in April 1944 so they should have had the time to start on facilities, then Savoir shows up. That should have kicked them in the butt to start working on it. Should we also expect any new SPDs, carriers, or Manilaa DDs? Will the Brit ships make an appearance as well in Winds of Wrath?

      Reply
      1. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

        If the wiki forum vote is true than it appears that USS Indianapolis will be the next to arrive. If so when should we expect it? 15,16,17, or 18? I would guess at 16-17 if he follows his 3 3 month long books, then 3 2 month long books sequence? He might have to skip the rest of March, then go for three months. If Amazon is to be believed Winds is 544 pages, give or take 20 or so, it said RoB was 479, so he could have March in and go for a four month long book. All I ask is please do not put is in the epilogue Taylor, it’s bad enough waiting for Winds to come out, but if I get left in a cliffhanger without a first contact, conversation, and a who/what goes where scene I will go crazy!!

        Reply
        1. AvatarBy Michael Clitheroe on

          As Taylor has always avoided using real world active ships that fought and were lost during the War except for Exeter and her consorts in the fist book it is unlikely USS Indianapolis would cross. Some unnamed sister ship who never was could cross but not one who lost real people as Taylor has too much respect for who were killed in action to use them for the books. Something I think is right.

          Reply
          1. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

            What about from a different earth like the league? But yes I guess a sister ship would do.

          2. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

            Indy gets sunk on July 30th and most of the crew die, have it as a second chance? Or for some reason the old crew gets transferred to another ship, then a green crew gets it?

          3. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

            While on the topic of using ships and crews that were never used, what about USS Montana, or USS Ohio? They were of the same class (I think) and look quite formidable, but we’re only ever on blueprints.

          4. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            Well, while “Portland”-class consisted of only two ships – “Portland” and “Indianapolis” – initially it was supposed to build as many as eight. The Navy decided to re-order the already ordered “Portland”-class cruisers (“New Orleans”, “Astoria”, and “Minneapolis”) as more capable class, which essentially became the “New Orleans”-class.

            But it is perfectly possible, that in other timeline Navy decided not to re-order units, and go with five “Portland”‘s and four “New Orleans”‘s. So, one of three first “New Orleans”-class cruisers may be alternative universe sistership to “Indianapolis”.

    2. AvatarBy Taylor Anderson on

      Welcome aboard Mason. You really do have a lot to say! I’ll jump in on the lever action discussion. Vulnerability of levers was stated as an objection, as well as reliability in rough conditions—but levers had been used (and probably failed at least as often) on Sharps rifles and carbines. When those get gummed up or seized, you can snap the lever or break the toggle connecting it to the breechblock fairly easily. I can go into other historic torture tests they put 1873-76 rifles through (and a modern mud test that left a 76 functioning fine after an AK gave up) but historical adoption was more influenced by cost than by anything else.

      Reply
      1. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

        Plus it’s a bit more complex to make than a bolt action & without an example to work from, would take time to get right.

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        1. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

          Would Silva and/or Pete Alden know about the M1 Garand? How hard would it be to produce it?

          Reply
          1. AvatarBy Michael Clitheroe on

            The M1 came in in 1935-36 I think so would not be unknown although the Marines tended to still be using the 1903 Springfield at the start of the war and there was some opposition to taking on the new rifle after the 1903 was seen as a very useful and effective weapon. Then there would be the need to know the spec. of construction sufficiently to make a prototype. Many of the modern weapons were either copies of arms they had or could be reverse engineered from known tech. so depending on overall knowledge they could create something along the lines of an M1 in time

    3. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

      Hello from Mother Russia!

      Well, both “Leopardo” and “Savoie” are supposed to look exactly like the historical units of the same class – “Leone”-class esploratori and “Bretagne”-class superdreadnought (to be exact, “Lorraine”-type refit).

      Reply
      1. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

        I know but all the pictures are in black and white, and at an angle. It would be nice to have a professional side and top view. Also the specifications show Leo has 8 120 guns, but in the picture for PoF it shows only single mounts. Is it a typing error or is the picture off? Historical pictures show it with single mounts as well. I can understand if it is a quick of the LoTs world.

        Reply
        1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

          No, her mounts were a pair of guns on a single carriage. So, they were rather compact.

          Reply
  12. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

    Have you considered making a carbine m1911 coltcarbine? They did something similar in the civil war with the revolver, but it tended to fire all its bullets at once. Just take a copy and elongate the barrel to carbine length, maybe redo the ejection action for spent shells so that you can put a buttstock? Will it be comparable with blistering clips? Also you could give it 45 rifle size rounds instead of the pistol ones.

    Reply
    1. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

      Do you think they could make observation all in silver as well? If so would they be able to convert them like before, or start over? Their future infantry for when they take on the league might be armed something like: standard grunt with allin Silva leveraction, while the markscats or snipers get 03 and krag coppies?.

      Reply
      1. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

        Lever action allin silva. Curse tablets!!! And their spell check!!

        Reply
        1. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

          Tank variants: MK 1 map-from smusher, MK 2 grik smusher, MK 3 dom smusher, MK 3 league smusher?

          Reply
        2. AvatarBy Michael Clitheroe on

          Lever action rifles always had issues which is one reason the US army never took them on. In combat the lever can get bent turning it into a costly club which with Grik is not good

          Reply
          1. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

            Well you could have the lever part turned into a kind of brass knuckles thing or do something like an Indian buttstock axe or whatever it is. Guess I have been watching to many westerns lately…

          2. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

            I considered they would use it for the league, they might not want to get so close. Also Cats have amazing upper body strength, a further deterrent to LoT troops, as proved by a Aleutian in iron gray sea when dom sympathizers attacked Rebacca.

          3. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

            Native American genetic club, saw it in a Forged in Fire episode.

          4. AvatarBy Michael Clitheroe on

            I can see your thinking over a lever action rifle but bolt action magazine or single shot have many general advantages. The Martini-Henry as a single shot lever action was an effective weapon and saw active service for some 40yrs from 1871 onwards if I recall but not being a repeater was an effective work horse weapon across numerous battlefields without some of the dangers of the repeater. And as Taylor rightly said cost was also a factor and always tends to be when taking on new firearms

          5. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

            What about my 1911 foot copy carbine idea? Is it feasible, or not possible?

          6. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

            Colt coppy, I swear where does spell check get these corections?

      1. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

        Ignore above comment I meant to correct a previous error, blistering is to be blitzerbug.

        Reply
        1. AvatarBy Mason McCormick on

          Is it obvious I have been waiting a while to say all of this?😅 I will try not to add any more today.🤐

          Reply
          1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            Not a problem) Just try to put your questions and ideas into several big posts instead of numerous small ones. Forum architecture is not exactly well-suited for numerous small posts.

  13. AvatarBy DONALD JOHNSON on

    I placed a video on blowing tubes. you must see it then think about the guys on the submarine when the whole island exploded about 100 times larger an explosion.

    Reply
  14. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

    This would be several years down the line, but I’d LOVE to see this come stumbling trough a squall! I have to save Alexey, you Russians don’t think small! A very ambitious design & modular also (sections could be changed in different builds for various missions). I might have gone with just the V-1s & added a radio guidance capability. The V-2s were very dangerous & even more so on a sub.
    http://www.hisutton.com/images/P2_annotated4000.jpg

    Reply
    1. AvatarBy Steve Moore on

      Well, something V-1 sized, or maybe a Calliope launcher, would fit in the U-112’s hanger

      Reply
    2. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

      Well, must point out, that it was a purely theoretical research: mostly to investigate different approaches of placing missile weapon on submarine. Nobody ever thought about building such monster. But I admit, big Soviet submarine, armed with V-1 derivatives (we actually build several, including twin-engine 16XA “Priboy” – russian for “tide” – capable of up to 900 km/h) would be a very useful addition.

      P.S. As I mentioned before, the pulsejet itself would be extremely useful for the Alliance; it is cheap, easy to reproduce, and could gave Alliance 700-800 km/h capable fighters without the need to build high-tech piston engines.

      Reply
      1. AvatarBy Steve Moore on

        Combination of the two, pistons to get off the ground and pulse jet for attack speed?

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        1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

          Considering that most of Allies aircraft are designed to be carrier-based, catapult would probably be enough for fighters.

          Mixed-power is more suitable for long-range aircraft, that needed a power boost – like bombers or escort fighters.

          Reply
      2. AvatarBy Justin on

        Strapping them to a prop fighter would work too. The I-153DM got 30-50 extra km/h from its ramjet boosters – and if you can put jets on a biplane, you can definitely put them on a Fleashooter.

        Reply
        1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

          Well, for short-range interceptor yes. Problem with I-153DM was, that when ramjets were not engaged – during cruising – they seriously increased frontal drag.

          Reply
          1. AvatarBy Justin on

            Fair point about cruising range, though to my understanding monoplanes have inherently less drag than biplanes.

            And for now, wouldn’t short-range interception be the only role, especially given the low number of hypothetical ramjets? They need to shoot down League bombers and match the fighters before they’re in range; bomber escort and CAS can come later.

          2. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            You see, subsonic ramjest are inefficient by definition. The air is not compressed enough without supersonic shock wave. There were successful subsonic ramjets, of course (France pioneered this area and made quite good cruise missiles with subsonic ramjet engines), but even they are generally not practical for a speed below 800-900 km/h.

            So, frankly, I do not see much use for ramjets in Union. Yes, there were attempts – partially successful – to give power boost to piston-engine fighter by putting ramjets under wings or on wingtips. But this was suitable arrangement only for a short-time speed burst, because subsonic ramjets are not fuel-efficient. And with ramjets off, the whole arrangement slowed fighter down quite a lot, because ramjets have great frontal drag basically by definition (their working principle is that they slow down air, after all!)

            So frankly, I do not see much use of ramjets for alliance.

            Pulsejets and motorjets, thought, are much more promising. They work fine with less velocities – around 700-800 km/h.

            So I’ll suggest:

            * Pulsejets – for short-range interceptors, designed to blast off from the launch ramp, climb & make an attack run as fast as possible.

            * Motorjets – for long-range fighters & twin-engine bombers. To give them speed boost in combat.

          3. AvatarBy Justin on

            Agreed on the motorjets, but I think the board’s already had the pulsejet argument several times. Too much vibration – enough to cause structural failure in the Me 328.

          4. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            Well, I think that single pulsejet would not cause so much problems as double on Me-328 (if I’m not mistaken, its problem was that twin pulsejet arrangement caused the airframe to resonate), but ok, let’s stuck with motorjets.

            There are three possible arrangements for them:

            * “Pure” motorjet, in which the single piston engine is used only to power the motorjet as a sole propulsion method. Advantages – low weight & simplicity. Disadvantages – relatively fuel-consuming design.

            * “Separated” motorjet, in which there are two different piston engines, one to rotate the propeller, one to power the compressor of motorjet. Advantages – relatively simplicity, the ability to cruise on propeller and boost on motorjet. Disadvantages – excessive weight of two engines.

            * “Combined” motorjet, in which a single piston engine used both for propeller and (through some kind of gear) to power the compressor of motorjet. Advantages – relatively low weight, the ability to cruise on propeller and boost on motorjet. Disadvantages – great complexity, the need for a connecting shaft & gears.

          5. AvatarBy Justin on

            It’s not just the twin jets though. The He 162 and even the V1 were reported to have problems, which IIRC is why they pulled the plug on manned pulsejet planes altogether – and this is from the people who came up with the Ba 349!

            Thanks for the information. Logistically, the Union and Republic are probably best off with a pure or separated MJ – they only need to outfly the equivalent of a 109Es, not a K.

          6. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

            Hadn’t thought about a “pure” motorjet before, but there’s a way to make it semi-feasible.
            Make the “jet” portion a low bypass turbofan. The first blades would be the fan, followed by two sets of stators & rotors in the enclosed compressor section. Then comes the burner section which discharges into a short convergent exhaust tube to increase the exhaust velocity. This then opens into a larger tube where the bypass air joins the flow & is accelerated by the jet exhaust. They could add a simple single stage afterburner (or re-heat as some called it back then) for when they need additional thrust for takeoff & combat.
            Put four .50 cals in the nose & it might make quite the lethal little hotrod.

          7. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            ” Logistically, the Union and Republic are probably best off with a pure or separated MJ – they only need to outfly the equivalent of a 109Es, not a K.”

            Agreed. A two-engine fighter with piston-propeller in front and powered compressor at rear would probably be the most realistic configuration in reasonable time.

            “Hadn’t thought about a “pure” motorjet before, but there’s a way to make it semi-feasible.”

            Well, Caproni Campini N.1 was the “pure” motorjet, and at least in some flights it was able to reach 500+ km/h.

          8. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

            I’d forgotten about the Campini Caproni N1. As a test bed it was fine, but as a possible fighter, a very flawed design. It was too heavy for the powerplant, lost power rapidly at altitude (the engine may not have been supercharged), the compressor didn’t do much compressing, the very long exhaust duct had a tendency to cook the pilots, it had poor fuel economy & was slower than front line fighters of the time.
            With 20/20 hindsight we should be able to come up with something better for our guys & gals.

          9. AvatarBy Justin on

            The Ca.183bis by the same manufacturer, perhaps? 700hp engine, 460+ mph; that setup with a 500+ hp engine should get the Allies into some kind of parity with an M&M.

          10. AvatarBy Justin on

            Question: is it possible to put two MJs on a conventional airframe (BF 110, Mosquito, etc), or would it have to be twin-boom/twin-fuselage?

          11. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

            For a single fuselage, it would have to be two pure motorjets. The Germans tried running one prop with two engine & had major problems with heat, vibration & gearing complexity.
            If you want props, a twin boom layout would probably be the way to go. Think a P-38 with bigger booms & the tail raised to clear the exhausts.
            One of our guys problems with a fuselage mounted design is the radial engine. There’s a lot of frontal area there. They’d have to play with different layouts to get it to be worthwhile. If they start building V-12s derived from the P-40s Allisons, it would work better.

          12. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

            Justin, sorry I read your question wrong.

            Two on the wings like a Mosquito or Bf 110 is technically doable, but it would depend on how long the jet tubes were. They might be long enough to flex in flight, giving various off center thrust vectors. A twin boom setup would stabilize the tubes & prevent them waving the thrust around like a fire hose.
            If they could make the jet tubes short, it would stiffen them enough that you wouldn’t need the booms.

          13. AvatarBy Matt White on

            I may be wrong here but I feel like an inherent problem with a multi-pulsejet setup would be symmetric thrust. Since pulsejets don’t give perfectly continuous thrust, having them out of timing with each other could induce some serious vibrations and if bad enough, and they were spaced wide enough, could induce yaw and a sort of asymmetric thrust.

            This could be solved somewhat by placing the engines close together, which is a good idea for any twin engined jet. I think you would have to place them inside the airframe in a similar arrangement to a MiG-19. You would probably also want to work in some good dampening on the mounts and link the throttle linkages as well.

            Also happy new years everybody.

        2. AvatarBy Steve Moore on

          Alexey, Lou and Justin, if I could pick your brains. What about a missle similar to the V1, but with the pulse jet on the bottom like the Regulus? That way, you could drop it off each wing of a Clipper (or the belly of a twin-engine bomber), and with a large enough formation salvoing them into an anchorage, you’d do a number on ships and land targets. As well as have the speed to outlast Grikbirds. Maybe even add a couple of RATO units to the missles to get up to speed fast.

          My other thought, and yeah, I’m back to rockets, is to somehow deliver a salvo of Grik rockets. Attacking a DD from dead ahead, there’s only a few guns that can defend, and if they turn away, they expose their beam to the oncoming rocket salvo. Both would serve as the stopgap standoff weapon the Union needs.

          And to prove I’m not fixated on rockets and missiles… gyrocopters made with Grik Zep engines for Halik.

          Reply
          1. AvatarBy Justin on

            Not the V1 itself – it weighs 4,000 lbs, so you’d need two Clippers tied together to make it work!

            If the Union can finally pull off a Beaufort, radio/wire-guided 1,000+ lbers might be a solid idea against sea targets, bypassing the need for torpedo and dive bombers. Most ground targets might as well be bombed conventionally, though.

          2. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            “Alexey, Lou and Justin, if I could pick your brains. ”

            Sorry for a delay, was a bit busy those days.

            “What about a missle similar to the V1, but with the pulse jet on the bottom like the Regulus?”

            Technically – why not? There isn’t much difference where exactly engine is placed (V-1 have on the top mostly because it was initially ground-launched missile). It’s even possible to have axial pulsejet at the rear; Sweden post-war made several pulsejet-powered missiles (by investigating the wrecked German V-1’s) with axial placed engine.

            “and with a large enough formation salvoing them into an anchorage, you’d do a number on ships and land targets.”

            Frankly, for that role you do not even need engine… just the glide bomb would suffice.

            The problem, of course, is guidance. The gyroscope-guided glide bombs were tested by USAF in 1944 (the Aeronca GB-1) and found not satisfactory, only useful for area bombardment of a large targets, like cities. The gyros of 1940s just weren’t good enough to compensate the wind drift.

            Britain tested their Toraplane in 1942-1943; essentially, it was a torpedo-carrying glider, which was supposed to be launched against enemy ships from standoff distance. Again, the tests were unsatisfactory. Autopilot could not hold the glider on course steady enough, so it was essentially impossible to predict how exactly it would enter water.

          3. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            “If the Union can finally pull off a Beaufort, radio/wire-guided 1,000+ lbers might be a solid idea against sea targets, bypassing the need for torpedo and dive bombers. Most ground targets might as well be bombed conventionally, though.”

            Well, quite a lot of important targets – like bridges – actually are quite hard to bomb conventionally. USAF spend thousands tons of bombs over Burma in 1944, trying to take over bridges, to no avail. Then they received the VB-1 AZON bomb (quite simple design, a tail radio guidance kit for 1000-pdr bomb, that allowed operator to command it just “left” and “right”) – and with just a few dozens of them, the problem was solved.

          4. AvatarBy Justin on

            Right, but you don’t really need an ASM for an airfield or factory or tank column – GP bombs should do the job just fine.

          5. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            Well, this boil down to cost-effective. While GP bombs are cheaper, you need more of them to do the same job as guided bomb. Which also means, that you need more planes, to deliver that bomb. Also, it may generally means that you would be risking your aircrews more, because they may need to get closer to target to secure a hit.

            This was a long-standing problem until the XXI century – when it became obvious that there is no practical reason to even consider using a lot of unguided bombs anymore…

          6. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            Actually, I found that photoelectric technology during World War 2 was surprisingly accurate. In 1945, USAF tested a GB-13 light-seeking bomb. It was equipped with the contrast seeker, that used a selenium photocell (like in old film camera exposure meters) to discriminate between source of light and dark background.

            This weapon was designed to use at night, against black-outed targets, illuminated by flares. For example, a fast, agile “Mosquito” bomber could rush to the target, drop a flares on it – and then armada of heavy bombers would release their GB-13 from standoff distance. The bombs would went on flare like a explosive moth on a flame.

            When they tested it, they were astonished by how actually accurate it was. In one test, two GB-13 were released against a single flare. One bomb missed the flare by no more than 10 feet (!). The other just hit the flare (!!!). I repeat: it was a 1940s glide bomb, made from plywood and steel tubes and fitted with a vacuum tube-based seeker head.

      3. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

        The problem with pulse jets as an airplane powerplant are primarily: noise, vibration & the valves needing to be replaced almost every flight.
        Noise: At 140 decibels+ the things are deafeningly loud (rock concerts are 115-120bd & you know how loud they are). The pilots & ground crews would need substantial hearing protection. Even then sound pulses hitting the body over a sustained period of time could induce dizziness or nausea.
        Vibration: The explosive cycling of the jet leads to heavy vibration. Enough for accelerated metal fatigue & in some cases fasteners to come loose. A wing fell off in-flight during testing of the German manned V-1s. Also the heat & vibration in the jet pipe coming from the combustion pulses will lead to fatigue, cracks & eventual failures. They’re having problems with the steam pipes on the DDs cracking & the metal of the jet tube is a lot thinner & subject to higher stresses than those.
        Valve replacement: The intake valve grids would need to be changed every mission. The grids themselves are durable, the delicate flapper valves being rapidly slammed open & closed tend to come apart with sustained use. This is actually doable, if designed correctly. The intake grids replaced could be rebuilt with new valves in the carriers machine shops.
        Given all the problems, I’d go with a motorjet manned design & save the pulsejets for radio controlled bombs. They could use them as cruise missiles against the LOT BBs & cruisers.

        Reply
        1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

          Agreed. But, on the other hands:

          *Noise: At 140 decibels+ the things are deafeningly loud *

          Frankly, the high-powerful piston engines aren’t good else in that matter…

          *Vibration: The explosive cycling of the jet leads to heavy vibration. *
          *Valve replacement: The intake valve grids would need to be changed every mission. *

          Well, those are problems, I agree. The best thing seems to just swap the engine unit after several flights, replacing it with a new one & sending the old one to the factory. Not very economical, of course, but suitable for a point-defense interceptor – when performance is more valuable.

          *Given all the problems, I’d go with a motorjet manned design*

          Agree with that, too. Motorjets generally have worse mass-to-thrust ratio (because they are limited by the weight of compressor and the need to either took a power from main engine or have a separate engine just to power the compressor), but they could work longer without wearing themselves out that fast.

          Reply
  15. AvatarBy Paul Smith on

    Steve Moore’s idea about the Buzzards is a good one, also would suggest scouting areas around lake Superior for iron mines. If the conflict with LOT goes on for any length they will need reliable and defendable iron supplies. Also need to find alloying metals for high strength steels, nickel, molybdenum, tungsten & the like.

    Reply
    1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

      We currently do not know who exactly is living inside North American continent. Those “pending problems”, who obviously bothered NUS, and seems to be the reason for Dom’s retreating from Mexico Valley.

      Reply
      1. AvatarBy Steve Moore on

        Remember, Taylor’s still a young guy. Plenty of books left in him.

        Reply
    2. AvatarBy Steve Moore on

      Paul, I’d be guessing that the Mississippi may be flowing at a lower level, and heavily silted to boot. If DW truly is nearer to an Ice Age, more water may be locked up in glaciers and snow. But you’re right, the Mississippi is probably the only route, the St Lawrence is probably full of ice. Heres where they could be using some diesel electric locomotives from the RRP, pretty flat from Texas north… (OK, cue up ‘Ridin’ on the City of New Orleans, Joe)

      Speaking of alloying metals, aren’t a lot of them found in the East Indies? Waiting for the next in the Bradford book, now that we’ve read the Grik section a few times.

      Reply
      1. AvatarBy Justin on

        It’s a receding Ice Age though; the glaciers are still there, but they’re melting, so I’m guessing there’s a lot of runoff in-between. Dry Falls and Lake Agassiz, for example, would put today’s water features to shame.

        Reply
  16. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

    Just a though… but could Destroyermen build an iconoscope? They are thinking about radars, as it was stated in “Rive of Bones”. And the iconoscope is a quite important part of radar system: the screen to visualize the radar output.

    Without it – and the specific knowledge to build a video camera tube – what could be used instead? Some kind of mechanic plotter, using a continuous roll of paper?

    Reply
    1. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

      Oscilloscopes were among the first radar display system & were invented in 1897, so the display is possible. They may have had some on Walker as test equipment for their radios & reproduced them for the new build DDs. If so, they have a ready made display system to adapt to whatever type of radar they’re working on.

      Reply
      1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

        Yes, but those first devices used roll of paper, not screen, to make graphic representation. Only after vacuum cathode tubes appeared in early 1930s, it became possible to use oscilloscope screens to represent radar information.

        I strongly suspect that Alliance would be forced to stuck with continuous paper rolls and mechanical oscilloscopes for a while. Building a workable cathode tube may took time & efforts.

        Reply
        1. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

          Maybe, maybe not, but cathode ray tube O-scopes had been used in experimental labs in the 1920s & were not uncommon in the late 1930s. I just don’t know if USS Walker would have had any to copy. They could do it, but time & resources are still the limiting factors. Two & a half years from the bronze age to steam turbines & aircraft is pushing the envelope already.

          Reply
  17. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

    Some interesting data about Italian fire control & shell dispersion problems during World War 2:

    https://www.socionauki.ru/book/files/history_and_mathematics_4/300-313.pdf

    Seems that their guns were too influenced by ship’s roll; this was the major component of their inaccuracy. On calm sea, they could fire with deadly precision, but their accuracy dropped a lot in other conditions.

    P.S. Anyway, nobody would like to go into a clash with “Littorio”-class battleships. Those gals were REALLY strong, with quite effective armor protection and (as soon as they remedied all initial problems) one of the best torpedo protection systems ever (Pugliese system, when installed correctly, was considered to be on the same level as USN triple volume system. The main disadvantage of Pugliese was that it was very complex to repair & costly to build)

    Reply
    1. AvatarBy Justin on

      IIRC the cruisers were even more inaccurate – the turrets have the guns almost literally touching each other!

      Reply
      1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

        Well, this was remedied quite easily – they just installed a delay coil, which made a millisecond gap between firing the first and second gun in the same turret. By 1943, Italians even have blind-fire capability with their Gufo radars (Japanese, for example, never actually mastered the blind-fire).

        Reply
  18. AvatarBy Steve Moore on

    Odd thought for the day… cropdusters and skywriters. And Orrin’s in the land of hot, hot peppers. It’d be nice if he could think of a way to give a tailing dragon a nice dose of dried Habanero powder from a sprayer. Personally, I’d lean more towards the mustard gas, but that might be tough to handle.

    Smoke worked for Walker a few times, and if they could wipe out the only air power the Doms and LOT have in theater now, it might buy them some time.

    And the odd thought to leave you with… Imagine an IJN ship or two coming through, but from a slightly different time line… where the Emperor threw back a coup attempt by Tojo, came to an agreement with FDR, and never attacked Pearl Harbor, instead satisfying the people with the Dutch East Indies (to keep them out of Hitler’s hands). Wouldn’t that mess up a few heads.

    Yeah, I know, crazy. Maybe I should have stuck with the UFO guys, Heck and Butt, who came back to see what they’d caught with their meteorological mousetraps… “Crap, you dumbass, you were supposed to set the metal scanner for GOLD! Not IRON! Don’t you know which end of a transatomic analyzer goes into the machine?”

    Reply
    1. AvatarBy Donald j johnson on

      Are you sure that jalapeno dust will affect the dragons. I know that verge love jalapenos and it doesn’t bother them a bit verge of reptiles are closely related because birds used to be dinosaurs and the dragons are dinosaurs.

      Reply
      1. AvatarBy Steve Moore on

        Don: OK, Scotch Bonnets AND Habaneros. I’ll leave the hot pepper genus to Professor Anderson. Still waiting for the next clue to where the Vikings settled the East Coast.

        Still not too late to get the Nussies building MTB’s with RRP engines. Since the upcoming campaign is going to be dramatically tilted towards the LOT, work with what you have. Their repair yards are 5000 miles away. Station two Clippers in Mobile, and start an AEW patrol away from trained dragons and M&M fighters.

        Reply
        1. AvatarBy Doug White on

          Steve, That’s a good idea. Give the NUS the feeling that they can contribute to the cause and drag them into the 20th century at the same time. AND a Clipper or two and a few Peashooters or similar might be a morale booster too.

          Reply
        2. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

          One problem: the spotter planes on Italian and French battleships & cruisers were usually armed. Not to mention that both sides have actual seaplane fighters to launch from catapults.

          Reply
          1. AvatarBy Steve Moore on

            True, although I think Fiedler made the comment that they only had scouts deployed from cruisers and battleships. And if they’re like SOC’s, they’re probably armed with only a couple of 7.7mm machine guns. PB-5s have what, 4-6 air-cooled Brownings?

            Doug’s got a good idea about dragging the NUS into the 20th century, though. Maybe crate up a few Buzzards (they don’t seem to be used much anymore) and use them for exploring up the Mississippi, just to get them used to flying, and to take advantage of their ability to land on rivers and lakes.

          2. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            Well, let’s not forget, that Fiedler may not be completely right; he was submariner, after all, and may not exactly knew what are in capital ship’s hangars.

            French battleships before war were provided with Loire 210 seaplane fighter. Not exactly impressive – 300 km/h, four 7.5-mm machine guns – but enough to kill a slow, lumbering flying boat.

            P.S. And, let’s not forget, that Italians might modify their Macchi-Messerschmidt fighters, by providing them with floats. Of course, this would be clumsy, jury-rigged solution, but it would gave them instant aerial cover with little efforts. They could be catapulted from standard ship catapult & used to destroy Alliance patrol planes.

          3. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            “Doug’s got a good idea about dragging the NUS into the 20th century, though. Maybe crate up a few Buzzards (they don’t seem to be used much anymore) and use them for exploring up the Mississippi, just to get them used to flying, and to take advantage of their ability to land on rivers and lakes.”

            I’m not sure NUS worth investing much. Even in optimal situation for the Alliance, League would probably insist that North Atlantic are THEIR sphere of influence, and NUS must stay neutral. Or else.

          4. AvatarBy Steve Moore on

            Fiedler flew Gravois and the other LOT guys into Zanzibar, only ended up on the U-112 when Gravois decided he was surplus to requirements.

            And the Nussies may be a little wierd, but they’ve got good positions, a common ancestry and government with the DM, you can’t say they lack gumption. The last few chapters of POF bore that out.

            U-112’s going to have to become a big part of the Eastern Sea fleet, whether Hoffman likes it or not. She’s got heavy caliber modern guns, and with Lemurian lookouts and spotters, would be able to score a few hits on Leopardo. Not to mention torpedoes, but I’m hoping that Reddy is bringing Hardee and all his MTB’s along.

            They’re going to have to come up with at least one more stand-off weapons system to negate the LOT’s daylight gun superiority. We’d discussed acoustic torpedoes before, but wonder if the ‘new’ Germans could help out there. Delivered by plane or sub from astern. Maybe even acoustic mines if the LOT finds a harbor.

          5. AvatarBy Justin on

            Remember the last time a cruiser sub opened fire on a DD? Probably not advisable.

          6. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            “Remember the last time a cruiser sub opened fire on a DD? Probably not advisable.”

            …Well, the last time when it was an Italian sub (the “Torricelli”), the British DD went to the bottom too…

          7. AvatarBy Justin on

            I mean Walker and the Surcouf-class. Technically, Khartoum was sunk by her own torp exploding over five hours after the action.

          8. AvatarBy Steve Moore on

            Alexey, I like the thought that you’re always thinking. The Zero made an excellent seaplane fighter, being lightweight also helped. I don’t know enough about the comparative weights of a float-equipped MM and a dedicated short-range scout plane. But replace the cruiser with a dedicated tender (Ramb V for instance) operating from a sheltered harbor, and you’ve got instant air cover with decent legs and performance, to secure a FOB.

            Sitting in traffic this morning looking at endless loads of plywood from Quebec pass by, it struck me that some comment was made the the Cantets were made of .. plywood? If that’s so, maybe they could take some of the Japanese engines, mount them in a monoplane airframe made of plywood (scaled to fit Lemurians like Shirley, give them two M2’s, and you might end up with something able to turn inside a MM, just like lighter Zeros could outturn Allied fighters. Might be a way to increase the learning curve to the… Mosquito!

            I’ll leave it to the aeronautical engineers to figure out if a wing strong enought for a twin-engine plane to carry a Mark 3 torpedo could be built.

          9. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

            The current P-1Cs can turn inside the MMs, but I get your point. A slightly modified design using the current 10 cylinder radial & a sturdier airframe with plywood skins would be able to handle a pair of M-2s. Give it an enclosed cockpit & the new variable pitch prop (maybe with 3 blades or two larger chord blades to use the HP better) & it should be a bit faster than the current P-1C. Not a lot faster, since it’ll be a heavier plane, maybe 10-15 mph faster. They still need a supercharger of some sort & an O2 system though for high altitude ops. Being restricted to below 10k feet allows the MMs to attack & disengage at will.

          10. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            Frankly, I think that they should start to design a new fighter from scratch, not to adapt ageing P-1 airframe to new functions. To put it simply – while open-cabin machinegun-armed wooden monoplane could put some decent fight against modern 1939 fighter, it would always be at serious disadvantage.

          11. AvatarBy Justin on

            Yo, Lou’s suggesting a closed cabin. True though, with all the new features they need, the Allies should be looking at a Hawk v0.1 airframe instead of a Peashooter 3.0.

            Should probably be measuring and remeasuring their Junkers, if they aren’t already; no use coming up with something new if they’re still stuck with the old <400hp engines.

          12. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

            It might turn out looking something like a P-36, but with a wooden frame & plywood skins, it’d be considerably lighter with the same sized engine. The current radials are rated at 410 hp or so & IIRC we worked out that with the low octane fuel & primitive design, it would have to be a large engine to put out the rated HP (about 1,820 cu. in.). With modest improvements to the materials, cylinder heads, bearings, springs, cam & fuel, it should be able to eventually push up to 500-550 hp. For comparison the Catalina engines are about the same displacement, but with better materials, more development & experience & better fuel started at 800 hp & eventually topped out with superchargers at over 1,200 hp. In a light airframe the current radial wouldn’t be a bad combo at all. To supercharge the current engine, you’d have to regulate the boost to moderate levels, to keep the engine from rapid unplanned disassembly events. They could set up the boost regulator to keep the engine at sea level power ratings to higher altitudes without stressing it too much, but may run into detonation issues at altitude unless they get better fuel or a water/alcohol system going. One way or another, they need better materials & fuel to get much more out of any engine design.

          13. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            I think, they need something more radical. Why not try to put the available engines in tandem configuration? Or push-pull one (one in front of pilot, one at rear)? It would gave the power of two engines while keeping airframe relatively narrow & avoiding the drag problems with nacelle design.

            Secondly, the armament must be increased. Probably its time to start trying to put a cannon on Alliance fighter? Two 12,7 MG are hardly suitable anymore.

            Thirdly, I was thinking about the pilot depletion problem. The Alliance pilots, shot down over sea, are goners. They could not rely on usual means of escape. So, what about the escape pods? Granted, it would add weight, but since Lemurians are quite small…

          14. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

            Gee whiz Alexey, that sounds something like my P-2A design.
            https://www.deviantart.com/loupy59/art/P-2B-Study-Side-Plan-View-681532399

            An escape pod sounds like a bit much, but how about an ejection system, with an inflatable life raft integral with the seat? An ejection seat might be needed with a tandem engine layout anyway. The raft would inflate automatically after a few seconds in case the pilot was knocked out by either wounds or the ejection itself. Have the raft bottom & sides covered in thick, oiled leather to make it a bit more durable against flashies. Not much against larger predators like Grikkaa(?), but enough to hold against flashies until a Nancy can pick them up.

          15. AvatarBy Donald j johnson on

            The ejection seat idea with automatic inflating raft sounds good. just what they need to keep them above the water so the grick birds can grab them. :-)

          16. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            Frankly, I would not rely on inflatable raft in the sea, full of flasher fishes. They are more active in “let’s taste it just in case” than average Earth sharks. A fully-detachable cockpit seems more promising.

          17. AvatarBy Justin on

            I dunno, a self-contained watertight cockpit sounds like something that would drastically reduce flight performance.

          18. AvatarBy Steve Moore on

            Doesn’t take much to get Lou and Alexey turnin’ and burnin’ on 10 cylinders.

            Coming down in the sea, I don’t think there’s anything that would save aircrew. Flashies sank Doneghey’s whaleboat, remember.

            There are about 60 MM’s left, plus a few slow Stukas (easy meat for a P1?)and a few SM 79’s and Ju52’s.

            Alexey, didn’t the Italians have a fighter (Centaur?o?) that could carry a torpedo? Could the P40, even the little bitty Muriname ones?

            Steel tube frame, plywood skin.. maybe a spare MM engine… possible to build a Spitfire or Hurribomber? Maybe even an Hs 129 or IL-2? Doesn’t really sound like there was much left of the Beaufort.

            Lou, if they could build turbines, they could build superchargers, right? Don’t superchargers have lobed impellers, though? Superchargers would boost MTB speeds too, and any diesels that come along.

            How about converting some of the remaining Impie and Nussie ships to carry 4″50’s, to give them an advantage against armored Doms

          19. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            “Lou, if they could build turbines, they could build superchargers, right? Don’t superchargers have lobed impellers, though? Superchargers would boost MTB speeds too, and any diesels that come along.”

            I’m not sure. Ship turbine tech did not have as big tolerances as aircraft’s. As far as I knew, supercharger engines were not easy tech even for late 1930s; Union is roughly at late-1920s.

          20. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

            Yeah, I don’t really see rafts doing much good & a detachable cockpit pod would probably be to heavy & complex. Might not be all that reliable either, what with all the bolts & clamps holding it in place. If one or two of them was damaged in combat or just rusted & seized, your pilot is screwed.

            Steve, Roots type blowers have lobes & need pretty fine tolerances, there’s also axial flow, screw (both needing fine tolerances), centrifugal blowers (think turbochargers in cars, but belt or gear driven) or A/C Heater blowers (very simple, but low pressure). If it’s gear driven, that’s where the complexity comes in, since the centrifugal types rotate at up to 100k rpm. Walkers steam turbines are axial flow units with multiple rotor & stator stages (think jet engine) which would be too large & complex for an aircraft supercharger. They also have the Walker blower that pressurizes it’s boiler rooms as an example. It’s probably either a centrifugal or maybe A/C Heater blower type (vanes on the perimeter of an open plenum wheel). Most aircraft superchargers are gear or exhaust driven centrifugal types & you can get into single or two stage & single or two speed types. Two stage, two speed being the most efficient but also the most complex.

            The best our guys might be able to do right now would be a single stage, single speed system, optimized for whatever altitude they want full power at. To remove the gearing complexity issue, they could go to an exhaust driven system. That has heat issues for the drive turbine, but those can be dealt with by distancing the turbo from the exhaust manifold with ducting, like the P-47 system. For example, if you put your hand into the open flow from an exhaust manifold at the engine, you’d have a charred lump of flesh, but if you put it into the flow from the exhaust pipe five feet away, it’s just warm air. The down side being, turbo lag & at lower altitudes the pilots would have to be careful to maintain low throttle settings or install a high pressure bypass vent. If they went to full power at low altitude without one, they would over pressurize & blow the engine up.

            The idea about shipping some 4″/50s to the NUS could work. They could do something like my Scott class conversion for the ships they have left & be able to handle the Leopardo & any other DDs & DOMs, but would still be vulnerable to the LOT cruisers & BBs.
            https://www.deviantart.com/loupy59/art/Scott-Class-Conversion-709144864

          21. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            “The idea about shipping some 4″/50s to the NUS could work. They could do something like my Scott class conversion for the ships they have left & be able to handle the Leopardo & any other DDs & DOMs, but would still be vulnerable to the LOT cruisers & BBs.”

            Far too optimistuc to think that the wooden sloop with a pair of modern guns would be able to handle the modern heavy destroyer… It’s not just the guns, but handling system, fire control, stability of the hull (and even hull size – Leopardo is much lower than any wooden warship). Not to mention that wooden hulls are VERY bad in taking HE damage.

            “The best our guys might be able to do right now would be a single stage, single speed system, optimized for whatever altitude they want full power at. To remove the gearing complexity issue, they could go to an exhaust driven system”

            Interesting idea… because its one step from motorjet. As soon as they realize that compressor heated exaust produce thrust, the idea of heating the exaust more with the fuel injection would be the logical next step.

          22. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

            The weight saved by reducing the sail rig & exchanging a large battery of heavy iron cannon for a few 4″/50s would be applied to plating the hull, so not quite as vulnerable as a straight wooden hull. If they got rid of the Derby guns, my modification has & reduced the sail rig further to say top sails only, they could increase the area covered by plating considerably.
            I agree, not an ideal solution, but it gives their ships a chance, especially traveling with one or more similarly modified ships. Of course, any LOT DD is a lot(heh) faster & can engage & disengage at will & could use torpedoes if the situation got rough.

          23. AvatarBy Justin on

            2 guns/broadside/ship x 10+ ships = 20+ gun broadside; that’s enough four inchers to make even Leopardo think twice.

          24. AvatarBy Steve Moore on

            At this point, I’m thinking about dealing with the ingenuity of the Doms in up-armoring their steamers. If the NUS and Impies can stand off at 1000 yards and plonk the Doms, that solves one part of the problem. And Alexey’s right, they’d be no match for the Leopardo, not even as a multi-ship attack. Even Gray might have a tough time; the Union needs a swarming offense, just as the Japanese did to Exeter and the others.

            And I do agree with Alexey on the motorjet idea; it’s one step up from a ducted fan which they’re capable of now, just a question if they can deal with the weight and temperature issues to step up. This is where the alloys need to come in.

          25. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            ” guns/broadside/ship x 10+ ships = 20+ gun broadside; that’s enough four inchers to make even Leopardo think twice.”

            No, it wouldn’t. Because Leopardo guns are installed in MUCH more stable hull, and linked in MUCH better fire control system. Italians fire control calculators were, by the way, excellent. And her guns are not dispersed among several ships (which always hamper fire control, forcing to discriminate the splashes), and she have absolute speed advantage.

            Short of some short-range trap – and Leopardo have torpedoes for that cases – a dozen of wooden sloops with barely trained NUS crews and most primitive fire control would NOT do any good against Leopardo. Against Dom’s – yes. But Leopardo would eat them all for breakfast.

            P.S. Guys, do NOT underestimate Italian light units. Their crews & commands were utter badasses even by RN and USN measures. Recall torpedo boat Lupo – which crossed the British squadron (cruisers & destroyers) TWICE. And survived.

          26. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

            I’ll grant you much better fire control, speed & torpedoes (which I mentioned earlier), but DDs are not a more stable firing platform. Sails can work to reduce roll considerably when not directly astern. They will still pitch as much as normal ships, but wind pressure against the sails tend to stabilize the ships roll. Also DDs at full speed (like they will be in combat) tend to ship heavy water over the bows even in normal sea conditions, which reduces their gunnery accuracy. I’m not saying putting 4″/50s on the NUS ships will solve their problems, but it gives them a more of a fighting chance.

      2. AvatarBy Donald j johnson on

        Dang but sometimes I hate audio input. I read it as birds all 3 times and cell changed it 2 of the 3 times to verge.

        Reply
    2. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

      Seriously… Just use mustard gas. It’s more effective, and not harder to handle (all you need is the rear-facing gas tank on the plane with dispersing device – basically a shower head – on the vent). Even a very dispersed gas would affect dragons greatly, due to their large exposed skin and intense breathing in flight.

      P.S. And since the dragons are neither soldiers nor even fully sentient beings, using poison gas against them would not be a violation of any possible treaty.

      Reply
      1. AvatarBy Steve Moore on

        Thanks, Alexey. I was thinking about how airflow would affect dispersion, especially some attaching itself to the tail surfaces. And since Geneva is probably occupied in this world by yodeling skiing Grik, probably no international repercussions as you noted. However, even though they’re not fully sentient, I don’t think the Union can afford to stoop to the concept of ‘untermensch’. Kill combatants, yes, but resist the temptation to wipe out a species just because you can. Sounds like the CES Germans were already headed there, and I would hazard a guess that the other members accepted the same, according to Fiedler. Unfortunately, we’ve already seen that in the casual extermination of the Grik-like inhabitants of Borno, which happily, has come to an end. Don’t know if Taylor was trying to draw a parallel to America’s treatment of Native Americans (who were no slouches themselves at attacking their own cousins), but you can always sense the undercurrent of our history in the series.

        Reply
        1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

          Er, there are difference between “untermensch” and “military animals”. Grikbirds seems to fall in the later category.

          And I wasn’t exactly talking about their extermination – merely to use poison gas screens as a plane defensive measures.

          Reply
          1. AvatarBy Steve Moore on

            Oh, I agree with you, Alexey, but it’s a slippery slope. A friend of mine had a grandfather who flew Typhoons in Northern France, and he hated shooting up the horse-drawn wagons of the Germans.

            Animals can be trained to do a lot of things; imagine dragons being used in a post-Dom society for ASR or mail delivery… OK, so I was watching “Pet and his Dragon” with my grand-niece….

  19. AvatarBy Henry Breinig on

    Lately I’ve been reading a few books on Theodore Roosevelt and the Spanish American war, and it got me thinking. The Walker crew crossed over into the new world so to speak with Kraigs, and and .30-40 cartridges. The cavalry, if it is to continue to function will need more modern weaponry, and a controllable lever gun might be a good solution. Perhaps something along a Winchester 1895 in .30-40 or .30-06 would do the trick?

    Reply
    1. AvatarBy Justin on

      Lever-action discussions (technical-discussions/comment-page-6/#comment-8704, technical-discussions/comment-page-7/#comment-11786, technical-discussions/technical-discussions/comment-page-8/#comment-12948).

      Reply
      1. AvatarBy Henry Breinig on

        Ah, yes, now I’m remembering that discussion. That was from quite a while back as I recall it.

        In any case, yeah, lever guns are over-complex in some regards but they are far more ideal for use on horseback than a bolt action. In many cases they can be faster to cycle as well, and there can be an argument made for the idea that lever action rifles are better for trench work and so on. Still, the difference in difficulty of production certainly makes the Alliance’s current production the right choice for general purpose use.

        Reply
        1. AvatarBy Justin on

          It’s true that it’s probably harder to ride and shoot with a bolt rifle, but rate of fire depends on the rifle’s action and the user; for example, an SMLE’s ergonomics enable it to (arguably) outperform a lever rifle.

          Reply
          1. AvatarBy Henry Breinig on

            That’s certainly the case. Rifles with turned bolts or straight-pull actions can approach and even surpass the speeds of most lever guns. As you said, the SMLE is a good example of such a rifle, though other examples from the times of the Destroyermen would be the Ross rifle and the Mannlicher M95.

            That being said, I reckon in the case where one may be firing from horseback or other situations along those lines- firing from a vehicle even- a lever gun is likely to be faster there just due to ergonomics.

          2. AvatarBy Justin on

            That’s true – don’t want your reloading arm to get caught on the backrest!

            Question is, what kind of battlefield will we be looking at once the “M1” rifle/carbine is finally ready for mass production?
            By autumn ’45 to ’46, Esshk and the Dommies should be dead or irrelevant; against League MG34s, the regular cavalry’s best bet is probably to fight dismounted, like bicycle infantry. Lever-actions would be useful for riding shotgun, yes, but I doubt Baalkpan or Alex-aandra would want to design a brand new reloading system for such a situational role; might as well give them SMGs.

            … Speaking of which, I wonder how the Blitzers’d fair against contemporary SMGs. Perhaps the Allies should get around to a proper M3?

          3. AvatarBy Steve Moore on

            Cavalry on the attack would probably get better use from a Bliter with a three-round burst setting. When you’re off the horse and scouting (or sniping), a nice ’03 or Krag with an Imperial telescopic sight fills the bill.

            And of course, if you’re scouting or sniping, having a couple of B40’s to drop in on the enemy’s camp to cause confusion would be nice. Now there’s a good weapon for Halik’s ‘SAS’ patrols. Shoot and scoot.

      2. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

        Did we ever talk about pump action rifles? They can feed from a box or a tube magazine depending on design & it’s about as simple as it gets.

        Reply
        1. AvatarBy Taylor Anderson on

          Something like a large frame Colt Lightning would be doable, but the originals were kind of cantankerous. Even model n manufacturers have had a hard time making the medium frame varieties reliable. I think, doubtless with some experience with Lightning’s, Silva would be against them and would probably put his weight behind a lever gun—something like an ‘86, for the .50-80 (that or a ‘76 would work fine with that cartridge, though for the ‘76 the ctg would need to be a tad shorter with a slight bottleneck). For a more modern ctg, I bet he’d like an 1895. Problem is, all the above are top eject and only the ‘95 is suited to the application of a stripper clip guide.

          Reply
          1. AvatarBy Henry Breinig on

            Smidge off topic but I’m actually considering acquiring a Winchester 94 or 95, partly because Krags in original configuration can be rather expensive from what I’ve seen

          2. AvatarBy Paul Smith on

            Didn’t Colt chamber the lightning in .50-95 Express? Are there any pump action shotguns that were recovered from the Santa Catalina, for instance a Winchester 12 or Remington 31? could they serve as a base for rifles, with better engineering than the Colt?

          3. AvatarBy Matt White on

            IIRC the ’95 also proved to be more expensive to make and more prone to mud than contemporary bolt guns.

  20. AvatarBy Justin on

    Might as well kick off the one we’ll be talking about for the next year or so:

    FOUR capital ships? TEN destroyers? SIX months?! More on the way after that?!? Allied R&D better come up with something real fast!

    Reply
    1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

      Well, it is interesting to speculate what exactly those capital ships could be…

      For Italians, I could bet that at least one of their BB is “Leonardo da Vinci”, refitted in late 1930s along the “Conte di Cavour”-class lines.

      The other one is, probably, a heavily refitted “Francesco Caracciolo”. It was stated, that Italian battleships are the most modern & powerful in League’s arsenal.

      Of French ships, I assume that one is probably old “France” (of “Courbet”-class), and the second is, probably, “Normandie”-class, slightly refitted.

      Reply
      1. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

        For the Italians I’ll agree with Alexey on the Francesco Caracciolo class, but make it both ships of the class, or possibly one of them plus an early build Littorio (a different timeline could commission one earlier than ours). I have my doubts about the Leonardo da Vinci, since she mounted 12″ guns, unless they are sending their less powerful ships first.

        For the French I’ll have to disagree on the Courbet class also. If they threw away the Savoie, a newer, more powerful ship, considering it to be of little value, wouldn’t they have sent the Courbet class or Italian Cavour class BB instead? A Normadie or Lyon class BB would be newer & more powerful than the Savoie, so they’re possibilities, although both classes were cancelled in our timeline. I’d go with both of the Dunkerque class ships or a Dunkerque & a Richelieu for the French contingent of the coming LOT fleet.

        The CES fleet was going to be engaging the British Royal Navy in the invasion attempt. They would build the capital ship contingent to fight Queen Elizabeth & Revenge class BBs, armed with 15″ guns, as a minimum, with possibly one or both Nelson class ships, depending on the British Mediterranean fleet’s composition at the time. Any 12″ gun armed BB would be a liability, unless used for secondary duties like convoys or shore bombardment. All the European economies were essentially bankrupt after WW1. They couldn’t physically or fiscally build huge fleets. In the world the LOT came from, the CES probably lost the war with such a huge chunk of their fleets & armies disapperaing like that. I don’t see how they could have too many more capital ships to send any where, especially if they have their own local issues.

        Reply
        1. AvatarBy Justin on

          I’m going with Lou on this one; two Caracciolos and a Littorio would be a much better Yamato-class equivalent for a “death of the battleship” final fight.
          As a Mediterranean-only fleet though, the Italians would’ve thrown almost all the Regia Marina into the invasion, QEs or not… perhaps they scrapped the Contes and Caios?

          WRT the French, they’d’ve had to hold down the North Atlantic too, so the Dunkerques and Richilieus are probably still uptime.

          Don’t forget cruisers, those are going to be a problem. That’s why they need a ship that packs Amagi’s 10″ers: they don’t have any 7-9″ers, and the 140mm’s only got 2″ worth of penetration… at ten kiloyards. Anything larger than a Guissano/Cadorna or a contre-torpilleur is practically immune to a Gray or Walker unless the Allies somehow get into MG range.

          Reply
        2. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

          ” I have my doubts about the Leonardo da Vinci, since she mounted 12″ guns, unless they are sending their less powerful ships first.”

          Er, as I mentioned above – she was probably refitted according to the lines of other ships of her class, i.e. her guns were re-bored to 12,6-inch.

          “For the French I’ll have to disagree on the Courbet class also. If they threw away the Savoie, a newer, more powerful ship, considering it to be of little value,”

          Do you read the last book yet? It is mentioned, that “Savoie” was NOT meant to be sacrificed, it was basically personal initiative of Gravios.

          ” I’d go with both of the Dunkerque class ships or a Dunkerque & a Richelieu for the French contingent of the coming LOT fleet.”

          No, no, and no. Because it was clearly stated, that League’s most modern battleships are Italian ones. Which means, that French are less modern ones.

          Reply
          1. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

            If the Italians don’t have a Littorio, then yes the Richelieu & Dunkerque’s are out, which leaves the French with maybe a Normandie class or two of BBs & the Italians with maybe a Caracciolo class ship or two as the “most powerful & modern” ships they have. If we are going with that assumption, there’s no way the CES invasion fleet would have any chance against the what RN had available, unless the Italians pulled off a Taranto at Malta or Alexandria beforehand.

            And yes I read the book. We already knew Savoie wasn’t supposed to be given away, but she was still regarded as one of the least capable & modern of their capital ships. The only ships more powerful or modern (assuming no Littorio’s or French Equivalent) might be the Normadies & the Caracciolo’s (if even constructed) unless the ship construction constraints in the CES after WW1 were considerably different than ours.

          2. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            ” If we are going with that assumption, there’s no way the CES invasion fleet would have any chance against the what RN had available, unless the Italians pulled off a Taranto at Malta or Alexandria beforehand.”

            I think, you overestimate the Royal Navy quite a bit. If they were forced to fight the whole CES AND Japan as early as 1939-1940, they would be very overstretched. France with her colonial empire & bases all around the world would be much more dangerous opponent than just Germany & Italy.

            It is possible, that French most modern units were partly in Atlantic (tearing apart British convoys), and partly in Western Mediterranean. After all, the link between France and Alger is vital for France. So, they probably have most of French most capable ships here to beat any British attempt to sortie from Gibraltar, while only a limited force was send to support combined invasion in Egypt.

          3. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

            I’d forgotten about Japan. Are we sure she’s at war with Britain? It’s possible it was a three way war, since much of what the Japanese took in East Asia were Dutch & French possessions, seeking to secure oil fields. The Dutch owned the prime oil fields in Indonesia, are they part of the CES as well? In our world the British colonies were attacked mostly because they were allies with the French & Dutch.
            It’ll be interesting to see what Taylor eventually comes up with.

          4. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

            Did some double checking & yes Japan was allied with the CES against Britain, Russia, China & the USA. The French, while having colonies in many places didn’t usually have any large naval or military presence with them. If the Dutch are part of the CES, that helps the Japanese tremendously. With the Japanese in the Pacific, they would probably take the British colonies the way they did in our world & the British would concentrate on the Atlantic & Mediterranean theaters, while the US would be largely in the Pacific to start, until war production geared up.
            Still the French industrial capacity & naval infrastructure would have had to explode in the 20s & 30s to have any hope of being a real threat to the RN. They did have better port access to the Atlantic than the Germans had, which helps considerably. It’d be damned hard to blockade France like they did Germany. If I were them, I’d have concentrated on fast raiders like the Dunkerques & a large submarine fleet. Meanwhile trying to generate some sort of naval aviation. They had the Bearne, but she was a rebuilt BB & too slow to be useful for anything but training.
            A map of the various colonies in our world of 1939: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8d/Pacific_Area_-_The_Imperial_Powers_1939_-_Map.svg/980px-Pacific_Area_-_The_Imperial_Powers_1939_-_Map.svg.png

  21. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

    I’ve been thinking about Taylor’s post of the “official” PB-1F & had an idea to throw out for opinions/comments.

    The picture shows the PB-1F having a single row radial instead of the stacked radial described in POF. I think it’s actually a better design with the single row 254-hp engine like the picture shows. 
    1.  Not as much stress (weight & torque) on the airframe as the 10-cylinder would be (maybe 45% less weight) & being air cooled, about the same weight as the water cooled 4 cylinder. 
    2.  With a 104 hp power boost, the performance increase would be about the same without over powering the plane.
    3.  With less weight & a smaller engine, the range would be increased significantly.
    4.  The balance would be better, making it a far safer plane to fly.
    5. As an added bonus the observer should be able to hand prop the 5-cylinder. The 10-cylinder needed to be inertially started with a hand crank. Which then leaves the observer wondering how the hell he’s going to get past the fan to his or her seat.

    We could call the design info in the book a “mistake” & “correct” it for the Kindle editions, second & later printings & paperback when it comes out.
    Pg. 126, change the engine to the “proven 5-cylinder 254-hp radial”
    Pg. 456 Specs change to “5-cylinder 254-hp faired in radial”
    Done!  It matches the picture, is a better design & only needs two changes.
    All in favor? No? Oh well.

    Reply
  22. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

    Well, since the spoiler ban seems to be off… The Alliance would clearly need to seriously consider anti-aircraft missiles soon. The World War 2 experience clearly demonstrated, that even with best fire control available and proximity fuses, the gun-based defenses are simply not effective enough to stop the rocket-powered suicide glider…

    Reply
    1. AvatarBy Justin on

      Problem is that all the Allies’ve got are Grik Congreves. And since they aren’t very close to RC guidance either, then unfortunately their best bet is learning how to dodge.

      Reply
      1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

        “And since they aren’t very close to RC guidance either, ”

        Actually, they are quite close. The first RC-controlled aircraft were created during WWI, and Allies are quite a bit above that level in electronics (they have vacuum tubes). And, they also have much better rocketry (potentially) due to access to smokeless slow-burning powders.

        Reply
    2. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

      They may need to, but they don’t know that yet, since Esshk got talked out of using them in POF. They may come as a nasty surprise in the next book though.
      Also, as Justin says, they don’t have the tech for a reliable guided missile or proximity fuses.
      Are you considering an unguided rocket system, like a Katyusha or Panzerwerfer? A ship mounted box launcher with say 16 4″-5″ rockets & time fuses might work. Their fighters are slow to engage except for head-on or angled intercepts as they go by & a pair of .30 cal MGs might not even hit them or do enough damage to knock one down. Maybe their next gen fighters (if/when they arrive) could carry 2.5″ rocket pods on wing hard points. Still crap for accuracy, but better than nothing, since they’ll still be to slow to catch a rocket.

      Reply
      1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

        “Also, as Justin says, they don’t have the tech for a reliable guided missile or proximity fuses.”

        Actually, they have. The simplest proximity fuse that I could describe would be an electrical chain of oscillator-bolometer-amplifier-fuse

        * The oscillator would produce the periodic wave, which would be sent to amplifier through the bolometer.

        * In normal – “cold” – condition, the bolometer resistance would be to big for signal from oscillator to come through.

        * But if bolometer receive IR radiation from the nearby target, the resistance of bolometer would drop, and signal would get to amplifier.

        * The amplified signal closed the relay to the fuse, and detonate the warhead.

        The rotation of the rocket would provide the scanning for the bolometer. Basically, if rocket rotates 60 rpm, we would have 1 scan of 360 degrees per second, pretty enough to hit the advancing rocket plane. To avoid our IR-fuse reacting on targets too far away (like Sun), we could install the delay coil into the system, so the fuse would be activated only if the heat source have an angular size of, say, 10 degrees or more.

        Of course, it is not the perfect solution, but it would work. Even on Allies available level.

        Do not underestimate the wonderful capabilities of 1920s electronics. 😉

        Reply
        1. AvatarBy Justin on

          Assuming the Allies can do that, then they should be able to use those on conventional AA (Type 96s and naval guns are rifled) and shoot down the rockets, or have fighters do it. Even the V1 got shot down – and we’re not talking about a V1, but about an oversized two-stage firework. The carrier group itself is vulnerable too.

          Seems like a moot point, since the one carrier Esshk has might be gone before the Allies even come up with the need for a fuse.

          Reply
          1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            Er, no. To make workable proximity fuse is one thing. To make shock-resistant miniature electronics, capable of surviving the gun-launch – is a completely different thing. Sorry, only rockets and guided missiles could be equipped with abovementioned device, not AA shells.

            P.S. Considering that Alliance would be forced to face the modern planes of League (and let’s not forget, while League currently have no aircraft industry, they have MUCH more engineers and aviators than Alliance – and could establish their own aircraft production rather fast), I think that proximity fuses and surface-to-air RC missiles should be considered. The AA artillery is essentially a technological dead end; it was realized even before WW2, that AA guns are just not cost-effective.

          2. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

            While AAA is eventually a dead end against rockets & missiles, it will serve until they get something better, which will take a while. Planes were getting shot down in numbers well before VT proximity fuses came out, it just usually needed a saturation type barrage. So it will still be effective against the early WW2 type aircraft the LOT will have & definitely effective against the more primitive planes Esshk’s got. They do need an intermediate size auto cannon fairly soon though, MGs just aren’t going to cut it.
            For that matter, most modern ships have some sort of AAA DP light artillery, usually in the 25-40mm range. Granted, it’s radar controlled & mostly automatic, but that’s to handle the higher speeds of incoming ordnance. They’re also useful against small craft, when the heavy weapons aren’t cost effective.

          3. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            “They do need an intermediate size auto cannon fairly soon though, MGs just aren’t going to cut it.”

            Well… they might try electrically-powered large-caliber Gatling for that role. Or electrically-powered Hotchkiss revolving gun. Threw as much shells as possible on the trajectory of incoming suicide plane, in hope of exploding the warhead.

            But must point out, that both USA and Britain concluded that SAM would be much better solution, and pushed hard for their development. The USN worked out “Little Joe” (basically a JATO booster with added guidance system & warhead), the RN tested Fairey “Stooge” (plane-like missile).

            P.S. According to some rumors, Japanese have some ideas about adapting their promising solid-fuel surface-to-air missile – Funryu-2 – to the ships as well, but they managed to perform only one fully complete test before capitulation.

          4. AvatarBy Justin on

            But they’re effective now. Otherwise all the Allies’d need against the League would be Buzzards and Clippers.

            Even if the Americans or Germans got the idea for an IR-tracking fuse, it wouldn’t arrive before the Stukas and Sparvieros did, and for those, conventional (albeit upgraded) AA would be fine. As for the League’s industrial capabilities, it’s implied that they’re several steps behind the Allies; that, and the lack of aluminum means that they’re stuck with wooden/steel aircraft of their own, at best.

            Electronic weaponry is a good idea… for a couple decades after the books, when the Allies have the time, resources and a need. It was the turbojet that really killed triple-A, and I think we both know that the DD-verse isn’t even close to that.

          5. AvatarBy Justin on

            As for the autocannon argument, I’d like to point out that the USN still uses Bushmasters and Vulcans.

          6. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            “As for the autocannon argument, I’d like to point out that the USN still uses Bushmasters and Vulcans.”

            Yes, but they are… quite a lot more effective than 1940s autocannons.

          7. AvatarBy Matt White on

            The British fielded a CLOS point defence missile during the cold war called Seacat. It was a compact and reliable system but it was subsonic and its manual guidance made it useless against more modern threats. I don’t think it ever achieve a kill.

        2. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

          A proximity fused rocket might work, but it would have to be fairly large. Maybe a Panzerwerfer type box could replace one of the main battery mounts. Our heroes know radios & presumably can do rockets, it’s whether any of them will come up with the idea & whether it gets shot down (heh!) or approved for development. Assuming no one has thought of it yet, & the next book has Esshk using suicide rockets, demonstrating the need for something better, it will still be at least a year in design, testing & getting into production. So we MAY see something 3-4 books down the road. Until then, they’re going to have to use what they have & hope they can smash Esshk before he blows half the fleet away.

          Reply
          1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            Well, yes. It would be relatively large, to fit the electronics.

            “So we MAY see something 3-4 books down the road. ”

            Agreed. But they clearly should start to look for something as soon as they realize what happens.

        3. AvatarBy Matt White on

          If it were that easy then the allies would have been able to develop a counter to the V2 quickly.

          Your system may work in theory but until very recently infrared seekers were really finicky things that had low reliability.

          Case in point in Vietnam the US forces had a nightmare with getting their Falcon and sidewinder missiles to track. Their electronics, which were far more advanced than anything our heros can make, were not sensitive enough to discrimante the heat signature of a jet exhaust from the sun, reflections of sunlight off bodies of water or even the ambient heat of the jungle. Keep in mind that to work at all the seeker heads had to be precooled with liquid nitrogen from tanks stored on the fighters and if they couldn’t get a lock before the coolant ran out, usually measured in tens of seconds, then they couldn’t get a lock at all.

          This was the state of the art after 20 years of development by the Air Force into infrared seekers including incorporating captured German research which was more advanced than what the allies had in WW2.

          Infrared seekers became reliable in the 1970s with the advent of CCD cameras and even more so with modern CMOS sensors which aren’t all that different from the camera in your smartphone.

          The first SAM systems that were capable of shooting down other missiles were radar guided not infrared. And we’ve been down the radar rabbit hole a few times now. For that they would need new allies with radar to cross over.

          I think the best they can hope for is a ship armed with late war radar and VT fused AA shells to arrive. That would be a massive improvement in their AA capabilities and apart from a deus ex machina about the most advanced technology they could possibly receive.

          Reply
          1. AvatarBy David Edwards on

            Taylor needs the send over a ship full of P-51D’s to deal with the suicide bombs

          2. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            …We are talking about rocket-powered gliders, NOT ballistic missiles.

            Also:

            “Your system may work in theory but until very recently infrared seekers were really finicky things that had low reliability.”

            Where exactly was I talking about seeker? I was talking about the IR PROXIMITY FUSE.

            “The first SAM systems that were capable of shooting down other missiles were radar guided not infrared.”

            Not exactly. They were command-guided, with target and missile tracked by radars. They have no homing capabilities of their own, the control station just held them on course by radio commands.

          3. AvatarBy Matt White on

            In practice that won’t make much of a difference. If a more advanced infrared seeker isn’t capable of telling the difference between engine exhaust, the sun and the jungle then how is the alliance to make an infrared fuze sensitive enough to be set off by engine exhaust on a head on aspect (I assume we don’t want to try tail chase when shooting these down) and not be dangerously easy to set off?

            “…We are talking about rocket-powered gliders, NOT ballistic missiles.”

            But in all practical terms we are talking about a cruise missile, which is capable of evasive maneuvers which is something only modern cruise missiles are capable of. When you are willing to use sentient beings as your guidance systems a lot can be done.

          4. AvatarBy Justin on

            Come to think of it Matt, that might be the only thing protecting the League from getting wiped by reverse-engineered AShMs in Book 18: no matter how effective the missile is, Reddy would probably rather swallow kudzu than recruit volunteers for a one-way flight.

          5. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            “Reddy would probably rather swallow kudzu than recruit volunteers for a one-way flight.”

            Actually, I suspect, Reddy is more… pragmatical. If the situation would ve dire enough, and losses of pilots would became unacceptably high, he MAY consider asking for volunteers (IMHO). After all, Japanese kamikadze were developed as attempt to save lives – when the US air defense became too effective for traditional attacks.

          6. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            “In practice that won’t make much of a difference.”

            Actually, there are very big difference. The fuze is supposed to work on distances of about several dozen meters, no more. The seeker is supposed to work on distances of hundred-to-thousand meters. The difference us about two orders of magnitude.

            “and not be dangerously easy to set off?”

            Angular size of the object is the key. The relay system of the fuze would activate only if heat-emitting object have a sufficient angular size (which is determined by the duration of its detection during each rotation cycle)

          7. AvatarBy Matt White on

            I feel like if it were that easy then militaries would have used bolometer based fuzes a long time ago. But they didn’t and still don’t.

            This seems to me like a similar case to magnetic detonators in torpedoes. On paper a good idea and in the lab even quite successful but unreliable in the real world. The core issue at play is setting a suitable threshold of resistance to set off the detonator. Temperature varies wildly from season to season, day to day and time of day. To guarantee a stable temperature for the resivoir side you will need some kind of cooling system. For our heroes the best option is freon based refrigeration. They’ve been able to repair and recharge the coke machine enough times to tell me this is well understood tech. But thats also bulky.

            You could perhaps cool the rocket while it is on the launcher and the lines are on quick disconnects allowing the crew to make ready quickly. But this is raising cost and complexity. The more complicated a system the more likely it is to fail.

            And I still fail to see how it will be able to properly work in the tropics. Northene latitudes would be far easier because the ambient temp is cooler and hot engines stick out more.

            This also doesn’t get in to how this will be controlled. A simple bang bang control scheme will offer some authority but it won’t be agile. You also need high torque light weight electric motors that’s another area that needs R&D.

            And all of these electronics will need power. This is going to be a solid fueled rocket, for many reasons and that means we can’t connect an alternator to it and I doubt a little generator connected to a prop in the nose will deliver the juice needed. So batteries. But the batteries we have available are prone to cracking their cases from shock and are also heavy and low capacity.

            I agree that rockets and eventually guided missiles are a worthwhile path to research but having working SAMs in theater as a viable weapon any time soon is a bridge too far.

            Ultimately the best counter to these kamikaze V-1s is to do what the allies did in the real world; seek out and destroy their launch sites.

          8. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            …Matt, we are talking about the fuse. Not the missile seeker.

          9. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            “I feel like if it were that easy then militaries would have used bolometer based fuzes a long time ago. But they didn’t and still don’t.”

            …Ok, I explain it more. The bolometers are known since XIX century. The reason why they weren’t used in AA fuses is because when they were the best infrared devices available – there were no AA rockets to talk about. The interest – real interest – to AA rockets & missiles grew only in late 1930s, when the limitations of AA artillery became apparent. But by this time, more effective infrared devices became available, so infrared fuses, developed in 1940-1950s did not use bolometers.

            I stuck with bolometers, because they are WITHING the Alliance technological capabilities, and COULD be produced. While more effective thermoelectric systems are more problematic.

            Hope this answer your question…

      2. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

        “Maybe their next gen fighters (if/when they arrive) could carry 2.5″ rocket pods on wing hard points. Still crap for accuracy, but better than nothing, since they’ll still be to slow to catch a rocket.”

        Hmmmm. You know, it just might work, if they would have automatic rangefinding system for rocket launch on optimal distance. The real world systems (like installed on Sabre-D rocket-armed interceptor), used radar, but we could try to achieve the satisfying results with optics & infrared.

        Reply
        1. AvatarBy Steve Moore on

          Rockets. Calliope mounts on the new tanks. HVAR pods on the remaining P40’s. Maybe even a couple of launching racks on MTB’se-And the piece-de-resistace… a 12″ guided rocket dropped from the remaining Japanese torpedo planes (or Clippers, to get more range with altitude). B40’s for light troops.

          And you could probably shoot tanks with them as well, given better warheads.

          Reply
          1. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

            I was wondering when you’d jump in on the rocket debate!

          2. AvatarBy Steve Moore on

            figured you guys had set me up.. it’s now official, less than 30 days after POF worked its way through the lending library, I’m already being asked “When’s the next one coming out?” Taylor, please don’t ever get the thought to condominiumize your work like many other authors have. Even Jack Reacher has clones now..

        2. AvatarBy Steve Moore on

          didn’t the Sturmoviks, Typhoons and P47’s depend oo optical sights, based on ballistics math? Supposedly the Navy had real problems with accuracy on the Tiny Tim and other rockets used late in the Pacific.

          Reply
          1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            They weren’t using their rockets to achieve air-to-air hits on head-on interception courses.

          2. AvatarBy donald johnson on

            another type of proximity detector is a simple oscillator detector where the oscillator detects its own signal and the Doppler of the returned signal is detected causing the fuse to explode if a frequency shift of over a certain amount is detected. think of the old police radar gun type detector and I know that this type detector is within their capability (no not using gunn device detectors). by the way we used this type as shell proximity detectors ourselves in WWII

        3. AvatarBy donald johnson on

          An A4 skyhawk shot down a MIG in vetnam with a ZUNI when the mig overshot him after ha hit his airbrakes. Mig Pilot was gonna use guns and not waste a missile and the A4 survived. Mig did not. unguided rockets work

          Reply
  23. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

    Taylor just posted the new Nancy version on his FB page.

    Reply
  24. AvatarBy John Lyle on

    Would it be possible to have the recognition silhouettes of all ships in the series shown in the art section? I am wondering about Mahan silhouette. I know she is now different from Walker (shorter ) but I forget what she looks like from silhouettes shown in previous books.

    Reply
  25. AvatarBy Justin on

    Would U-112 have been carrying G7a torps or G7e/T2s?

    Because the former was noisy and left a bubble trail, but was pretty reliable otherwise. Might be worth studying.
    OTOH the latter was almost undetectable, but was slow and short ranged.. and had the same magnetic detonator problems as the Mark 14s in the first few books. Not much to learn from those.

    Reply
    1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

      I doubt that Alliance have much need for a completely new torpedo type. They aren’t that resource-rich.

      “OTOH the latter was almost undetectable, but was slow and short ranged.. and had the same magnetic detonator problems as the Mark 14s in the first few books. Not much to learn from those.”

      Well… considering that France and Italy played a larger role in CES than Germany, they could actually have ITALIAN magnetic detonator. Which, if I recall correctly, was considered by German engineers as more reliable and robust than German design.

      Reply
      1. AvatarBy Matt White on

        The problem with magnetic detonators is they have to be calibrated. The earth’s magnetic field is not consistent everywhere and locally it can be effected by many things. This is the big issue everyone who developed them, the Americans, Germans, British etc, found out during the war.

        The Italians probably had better luck because they tended to use their torpedoes where they tested them, the Mediterranean. This wasn’t the case for everyone else who’s submarines fought in many different theaters.

        For our heroes I think they don’t have to worry about any magnetic detonators the league may have as this earth almost certainly has a different magnetic field than our own.

        Reply
  26. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

    Are our guys using the Star Shell mechanical fuses for the 4″ DP AA work?

    Reply
    1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

      I really doubt that. Mechanical fuses are… complex. They probably have only pyrotechnical fuses of poor quality (justified, since they did not actually expect to meet either Kurokawa’s bombers, or League modern aircraft).

      Reply
      1. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

        While I agree they probably hadn’t even considered the need for them prior to Kurokawa’s surprise air show, I think reproductions of the star shell’s time fuses are within their capabilities. Mechanical time fuses were in general use in WW1 & they are about at a 1925 time period technology wise. It may take them some time to produce & test them however. They may or may not be available yet.

        Reply
        1. AvatarBy Justin on

          Sounds reasonable. A star shell’s basically a larger lum round, and IIRC the Allies already have those… though if they need VT fuses to work against aircraft, that might be a problem.

          Reply
          1. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

            The 4″/50’s had star shell ammo, hopefully Walker or Mahan had some to work with. Mechanical timed fuses were used up until the VT radio proximity fuses came out. They weren’t real effective but that’s all that was available. They definitely don’t have the tech for VT fuses, but should be able to come up with mechanical fuses. It’s a question of how long they’ve been working on them using star shell fuses as templates. They still won’t be real great against modern LOT aircraft designs though, but better than chemical fuses.

          2. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            VT fuses are impossible for Alliance. Don’t forget, it was technology, that eat almost as much resources as atom bomb, and in became possible only because of a great progress in centimeter-long wave radars & great experience of US industry in electronics.

            Some other kind of proximity fuse – infrared, or photoelectric one, for example – are within Alliance capabilities. But not for gun shells. It would took them decades to be able to make acceleration-resistant electronic, capable of gun-launch acceleration (thousands of “g”!)

            Rocket or missile fuses are perfectly possible. The photoelectric cells were rather common in pre-war photo cameras to measure the lighting, so (if Courtney, or someone other, could figure out how to produce selenium from products of copper refining, they could actually make them. And, bolometers (infrared-sensitive devices) are 1870s technology.

        2. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

          “Mechanical time fuses were in general use in WW1 & they are about at a 1925 time period technology wise.”

          The problem is not exactly the technology; the problem is the industry. To produce mechanical fuses in large number – not hand-made each one – you need highly trained workforce, precise equipment and good materials. Alliance currently have exactly nothing of this. Most of their workforce are out-of-bronze age, their industry is hastily build, and their materials are “as good as they could be”.

          I just knew how long & painful was the way for reliable AA fuses in 1930s USSR. It took YEARS to actually perfect the technology. Just too demanding. On small scale yes, it could be done. But made THOUSANDS of reliable fuses required far more efforts than crude build machining tools, operated by Lemurians who are mostly trained on level “put this thing here, rotate it around, pull it out, and don’t ask stupid questions”.

          Reply
          1. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

            Quite right, they’re probably using chemical fuses, but are probably trying to get a practical mechanical fuse tested & into production. Especially since they now know of the LOT’s modern aircraft. Reverse engineering the 4″ star shells would be the quickest way to go.

          2. AvatarBy Matt White on

            If they have the ability to manufacture the gunnery computer of Walker for her sister ships then they should be able to make mechanical time fuzes. The catch is that we have no idea how resource intensive that production is so it’s entirely possible that while mechanical fuzes are within their capability they aren’t practical for mass production. Which is likely the case. The machine tools taken from Walker should be high enough precision to fabricate most parts the crew could be reasonably expected to replace in the field. And they started working on trying to replicate those tools early on. The question is how many of those lathes and drills have they managed to produce, how widespread are they and are the tool bits anywhere near the quality of the originals. Tool steel is a different formulation from carbon steel which is different from spring steel and structural steel. They all require separate development.

          3. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            “the gunnery computer of Walker for her sister ships then they should be able to make mechanical time fuzes”

            No, that’s the problem. The gunnery calculator is a relatively rare piece of equipment, produced in very small numbers. They could allow to threw disproportional resources on it. But fuses must be produced in tens of thousands, to have any value. And you could not hand-craft each fuse as you could do with computer.

          4. AvatarBy Matt White on

            Agreed. It is within their capability but not economically feasible.

  27. AvatarBy Justin on

    Any guesses as to the Empire’s new steel hulls?

    Not really a spoiler, since RoB mentions them too: lightest are on par with the Walkers, and the heavier ones might be able to square off with the League’s. So DDs and something heavier….. but what?

    Reply
    1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

      ” and the heavier ones might be able to square off with the League’s. ”

      Considering the Republic lack of shipbuilding experience, probably a bit… overoptimistic.

      Reply
      1. AvatarBy Justin on

        Well the Empire does have a few centuries of experience with steam-propelled wooden hulls. From the description, it sounds like they’re on an A/B-class and Emerald/Hawkins level; nothing revolutionary, but still impressive.

        Reply
        1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

          Er, I seriously doubt that “a few centuries”. They didn’t have them when they were transferred, so it must be later invention. Probably no earlier than 1850-1880s.

          Reply
        2. AvatarBy Matt White on

          More likely a few decades of experience with steam power. If it wasn’t SS Amerika that brought that technology then it wasn’t that much before her arrival.

          They certainly have experience with armored steam powered warships however given the constant maelstrom around the cape it seems they have focused on coastal ships like their harbor monitors. They don’t seem to have much experiencing in building oceangoing ships.

          I think it depends on how much help they request from the Union. If they do ask for help in designing ships then we may very well see something that roughly shares some kind of lineage with hullforms the Union is familiar with. If they don’t then it will probably be what they are most familiar with. Perhaps a hullform similar to Amerika or depending on how good the memory of the WW1 sailors is, reminiscent of warships from their era.

          Reply
        3. AvatarBy Justin on

          Empire – the British/Indian blokes in Hawaii.

          Though it’s more than likely the Republic figured out steam before Amerika showed up.

          Reply
  28. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

    A bit of relevant technical data that I found in “Guided missiles and techniques”. Summary technical reports of Division 5, NDRC (Vol.1), published in 1946. Quite a good source about old USA guided weapons, but it is not the point here.

    The point is, that in April, 1945, the Dahlgren Naval Ordnance Station tested the effect of shaped-charge aerial bomb against the model of battleship’s hull. They used a standard 1000-pdr GP bomb casting, equipped with shaped charge of about 18 inches diameter. It was placed on the test rig, composed of several metal plates, separated from each other with 8-ft spaces.

    The plates were, from up to down:

    * 11-inch (28 cm) hardened cemented plate or armor steel.

    * 4-inch (10 cm) hardened cemented plate or armor steel.

    * 0,75-inch mild steel plate

    * 0,75-inch mild steel plate

    * 0,75-inch mild steel plate

    Between fourth and fifth plates, several 100-pdr bombs (without fuses) were placed. The whole test rig imitated the horizontal protection of battleship’s main turret magazines. Navy wanted to knew: would shaped charge be able to penetrate into ship’s magazines & would it have enough power to detonate ammunition in case of such hit?

    As it happens, it would.

    When the charge was detonated, the metal jet penetrated the whole test rig, from the first to the last plate, and caused detonation of 100-pdr bombs inside.

    This was one of the reasons, why armored fleets disappeared shortly after World War 2 and never returned.

    Reply
    1. AvatarBy Justin on

      Cripes, that’s a definite mission kill for even a Yamato. The battlewagons were already becoming too expensive to justify themselves – I suppose this was the last straw.

      Reply
      1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

        Yep. Incidentally (I think, it was just a coincidence, but…) the design of target rig was quite similar to the “Yamato” main turret protection.

        Reply
    2. AvatarBy Paul Smith on

      what if they used reactive applique armor to break up the jet? Armor still has a purpose in ships.

      Reply
      1. AvatarBy Justin on

        My guess, not worth the cost. The opposition would just create a better missile, so to keep the Iowas you’d have to sink more and more money into an arms race for four already-expensive capital ships that’ve mostly been made redundant.

        These days, the only thing a BB can do that a CV or DD can’t is shore bombardment, and that’s what the arsenal cruiser is for.

        Reply
      2. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

        To put it simply – the reactive armor needed to break such jet would probably cause nearly as much damage as the jet itself. Let’s not forget, that 1000-pdr shaped charge warhead is also a VERY powerful HE bomb. Adding more explosives to its detonation… this may just cause the armor to be destroyed by simple shock of surface explosion.

        Reply
        1. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

          Not to mention the massive weight it would add to the ship. It would slow them down & likely make them a bit unstable & that’s just belt armor. You want to put reactive armor on the deck also, since we’re talking bombs & guided missiles. You’re liable to blow your own superstructure overboard with one hit. It’s OK on tanks & APCs, since they don’t tend to sink or capsize & can be covered fairly well, but it still slows them down.

          Reply
          1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            Exactly, Lou. Basically that’s why naval armor went out almost immediately after World War 2: it was simply impractical to put it on anymore. Too many new methods of attack – shaped charges, supersonic guided bombs, nuclear weapons – for the armor to be worth putting on a warships.

          2. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

            It might be an interesting experiment to build a ship using Chobham armor instead of the usual steel plate. The latest Chobham type composites are supposed to be 10 times better than regular armor steel at defeating HEAT & kinetic rounds.

          3. AvatarBy Matt White on

            NERA composites like Chobham are more effective but tanks still only have to deal with HEAT projectiles of a certain size. Be it fired from a cannon or an atgm there is a limit to how big you can make the round before its impractical and the effectiveness of shaped charges is in large part related to their diameter.

            With an aircraft or ship launched missile you don’t have that limitation. You can make a much larger diameter warhead so I think it’s still a losing proposition. Weight will still increase very quickly and composite armor is much more expensive than steel.

      1. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

        Thanks for the pointer! Every time I do a new one I’m back to hunting through MS Paint’s fonts, trying to find something semi-close. I’ll try it out & see if Paint accepts it.

        Reply
        1. AvatarBy Nestor on

          No prob! You can use it for lettering on most of your allied plane and ship drawings. I can forward you my copy if you have issues with downloading and installing.

          Reply
        2. AvatarBy Taylor Anderson on

          Hey Lou. I’ve been working on a Cantet drawing and thought I’d send it to you for your input (as a fellow Aviation enthusiast and reasoned critic of my previous designs). Trouble is, I seem to have misplaced your e-mail address. I’d just post it here for all to see and comment on but I don’t have a discreet way of doing that by which the “rough draft” would not “get out there” as widely as the finished version.

          Reply
          1. AvatarBy Nestor on

            Taylor, I think I’ve got Lou’s email, I’ll send it to you. Maybe in return you can reply with your Cantet drawing? You’ve picked the curiosity of this other aviation enthusiast… 😉

          2. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

            He has mine already! You’ll have to bribe him with something else! :)

          3. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

            Plus, he already posted it on the DDmen Fan Club FB page.

          4. AvatarBy Taylor Anderson on

            If it’s on the fan association page, I didn’t put it there. That’s fine, I put it on my author facebook page, figuring if you guys like it, it’s good to go–and anything there is fair game for re-post–but I didn’t do it. Everybody have a look, and if it meets broad approval, I’ll post it here.

          5. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

            My bad! It’s on Taylor’s page, sorry.

          6. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

            Just out of curiosity Taylor, do you hand draw your stuff & then scan it & touch it up, or do you do it totally digitally?

          7. AvatarBy Taylor Anderson on

            Well, I basically hand draw it with a mouse in paint. I know, Nestor has already explained how limited and archaic that that is. I used to do a lot of pen and ink stuff and got passable at it but gunmaking for so many years (carving, lock filing, etc.) pretty much wore my hands out. If I try to hold a pen or pencil more than a few minutes my hand hurts-then goes numb! Ha!

          8. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

            Sounds like Carpal Tunnel Syndrome. My hands tend to start shaking when I try to do fine work… like holding a spoon of soup steady while I blow on it to cool it down. Getting a screw driver into the slots is a biatch also. Old age sucks.

          9. AvatarBy Taylor Anderson on

            Yeah, carpal tunnel and bone on bone. It ain’t the years, it’s the off road miles. The worst joint is the left thumb to wrist because that was the “pushing” thumb for the carving knife. Compression with tight gloves helps, and since I have such big hands, all gloves are tight. See? Always look on the bright side of things.
            Back the original discussion though, I’ve done all my own maps etc ever since the second book. I worked with somebody the publisher recommended on the first one, but though he was a pro and did a good job, that presented several problems. First, since he hadn’t read the book, it was a nightmare getting what I wanted across to him. Also, I often need at least rough sketches of the maps before I write what happens there. Might as well just do the whole thing myself so, professional or not, they show what I want them to.

          10. AvatarBy Nestor on

            On long drawing sessions I put on a wrist brace with a stiff back while on my drawing tablet. The stylus is fat with a rubber grip, which is another plus except when I inadvertently squeeze it too hard and tire my fingers out. I’m still learning to wean myself off that bad habit.

            As far as having someone else draw a map for a yet to be published story I concur it will be a challenge unless the artist has spent time reading the relevant parts of the script. Otherwise you can commission fancier artwork after the fact, say on a reissue or second printing.

  29. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

    Guys, seems that we have a problem. I found definite proofs, that French military designed sub-caliber armor-piercing rounds as early as in 1937 (for 20-mm gun initially). In fact, it seems that German sub-caliber rounds – which very suspiciously appeared around 1940-1941 – were stolen from French designs.

    What it means for “Destroyermen”, is that League quite possibly have MUCH more capable anti-tank guns than France or Germany have in our world. And basically, the Alliance would be totally incapable of making light tanks of any military value. They would just be too vulnerable. They would not provide any real protection.

    So it seems, that the Alliance armor development must be seriously re-thought. To be effective, they need tanks with at least 2-3 inch armor. Or more. With their technology, it means more and more weight (albeit the small size of Lemurians would probably allow to make tanks more compact.

    Frankly, but I started to think about something like the Alliance variant of Char B1. Heavy frontal armor, 3-inch hull-mounted gun/howitzer, light gun/autocannon/double MG’s in turret. Due to Lemurian small size, they would probably be able to actually put two-man turret in the place, where human could fit only single-man one.

    Reply
    1. AvatarBy Justin on

      (https://panzerworld.com/armor-penetration-table)

      Before launching into full panic mode, let’s keep in mind that A) most tank fights are at 500m or longer, B) most ’39 AT guns were 50mm or less, and C) APC or APCBC of that era yielded around 38-53 of penetration.

      So in theory, 1.5-2 inch plate at a 45-degree angle should bounce anything up to an 75 or 88, and those will likely kill an Allied tank no matter what. Let’s not sacrifice too much mobility for a little armour.

      Reply
      1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

        Considering that the “mobility” of Allied tanks would be very limited either way – they simply could not refine engines, gears and tracks fast enough – I think, they we could safely sacrifice it for better cross-terrain ability (i.e. rhomboid hull with overlapping track) and better protection.

        After all, the main goal for Allied tanks would be – for quite a long – the support of landing operations & near-sea campaigns. Basically it wouldn’t matter, that they are slow and have limited range; they would be moved by sea & would fought using the sea supply routes. So, there aren’t may reasons to even try to make them fast. And slow tanks are much simpler to produce.

        Reply
        1. AvatarBy Justin on

          We don’t really know what a war with the League would look like. What we do know is that tanks with minimal mobility can be defeated by even infantry or rough terrain; Char B1s would make horrible amphibious tanks.

          Without spoiling anything, a 150hp engine should be able to do 30 to 40kph on flat ground, and Baalkpan seems to be slowly getting closer to achieving that end. A semi-armoured SPG might work fine as an infantry tank in tandem with a light-medium, but the Chars are a dead end.

          Reply
          1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            ” What we do know is that tanks with minimal mobility can be defeated by even infantry or rough terrain; ”

            Er, the Char B1 have excellent cross-terrain mobility. Rhomboid tanks were specifically designed for that.

          2. AvatarBy Justin on

            By that definition of “rhomboid,” Churchills qualify too – methinks that they’d also be more useful to the Allies.

          3. AvatarBy Steve White on

            A 150 hp engine? That’s a Nancy F radial. I recall that American light tanks of the late 30s used aircraft engines; they were lightweight (comparatively) and had great power, even when detuned a bit to run on regular octane rather than av-gas. So Nancy engines would be plenty good for the type of armor the Alliance can build.

      2. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

        The current Union tanks are designed to do the job tanks were initially called for, breaking trench lines for the foot soldier to exploit. Light tanks, by definition are all vulnerable to anti-tank guns to various degrees. The Union’s current tank is probably vulnerable to .50 cal BMG fire. The Finns made a nice AT gun called the Lahti-39 in 20mm. Silva’s Doom Whomper might do well against light armor (maybe necked down to 15mm or so to increase velocity).
        Currently the allies can do decent enough armor & have good enough engine to carry it, but need experience with suspensions & transmissions to haul it. If/when they mix it up with the LOT on land a few years from now, they should be able to field something at least closely comparable to what the LOT currently might have. A tank with a 25mm gun variant & sloped armor would make an excellent light tank, using their 6-cylinder engine. The 3″/23 might make a good self propelled howitzer/Tank killer.

        The point is mute, however, since tanks have restricted mobility in forests & jungles. The Lot would be insane (OK, more insane) to bring heavy tanks into a Central African or South American campaign & I don’t see the Alliance invading North Africa any time soon.

        Reply
        1. AvatarBy Justin on

          The German 37mm off U-112 might be helpful as well, if they can get it reverse-engineered in time.

          Maybe the League’ll just straight-up invade the Republic? From what little we know, the west coast is mostly lowlands and it’s doubtful that Colonia would have adequate defences.

          Reply
          1. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

            The 37mm would make a decent gun. They’d have to shorten it some to make it handier.

            I seem to recall the LOT does have designs on the Republic & South African terrain is better for tank warfare than Central African jungles. They’d have to invade from the western coasts though, since the perpetual storm off Cape Horn would destroy any small craft being deployed from transports there.

  30. AvatarBy Justin on

    Given the existing level of tech and expertise, how much HP could the Allies cram into an engine within a six-month period?

    There, no spoilers!

    Reply
    1. AvatarBy Matt White on

      Hard to say because there are a lot of variables. However the next step in engine development they need is forced induction. The only union engines with boost at the moment are the P-40s. Fuel that is high enough grade will be a logistics problem. They can make it but they’ve only had to make enough for the P-40s so far. A simple positive displacement supercharger would be inefficient but also the easiest to implement. A centrifugal supercharger or turbocharger would be better but harder to do. The only possible examples of turbos they may have would be from wrecked Machi-Messerschmits although I’m sure Ben is familiar with the concept.

      But yeah there are a lot of variables at play that we don’t know so actual horsepower figures are hard to estimate. What octane fuel can they provide in quantities large enough to support large scale air operations? How tight are union manufacturing tolerances? What grades of high temperature steel are available? Also are they ready for fuel injection? You can do forced induction on carbs but it’s not as reliable and makes for less power. Fuel injection is much more complicated though.

      Reply
  31. AvatarBy Steve White on

    By any chance, is there a drawing / plan of the Cantet, the biplane used by the Republic? I know it’s based on the Albatros C-I of WWI Imperial Germany, and I’ve seen the photo of it at Wiki. But I’d like to see the drawing (much like the drawings we have of the Nancy) in Republic colors. If such a drawing exists I’d appreciate the pointer.

    Reply
    1. AvatarBy Taylor Anderson on

      I haven’t done one yet but I’ve been meaning to—if someone doesn’t beat me to it. Glad you liked Pass of Fire. It was a tough one to write for a lot of reasons and pretty emotional from time to time, even for me.

      Reply
      1. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

        I did an extremely small seaplane version of the Cantet for my Republic Quick Build Cruiser version 2.

        Reply
          1. AvatarBy Steve White on

            Lou, that’s an excellent starting point for the artists around here!

  32. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

    Someone on Facebook asked for a deck plan of the Gray a while back. It took me some time to do, because I kept finding mistakes to correct. The worst were the 4″/50 guns, which bore NO resemblance to the real thing. Plus matching deck arrangements with side view can get finicky to say the least. I also finally tracked down what that Rube Goldberg anchor crane thing was actually supposed to look like. Anyway, here she is. Finally!
    https://www.deviantart.com/loupy59/art/Revised-Alliance-CL-USS-Gray-by-Lou-Schirmer-aka-L-767012018

    Reply
    1. AvatarBy Taylor Anderson on

      Very nice! And that anchor crane was dopey looking. I suspect if Spanky had been involved more closely in final construction he would’ve done away with the whole hoist it on a billboard setup. A few Clemson’s did if I recall.

      Reply
      1. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

        Thanks! It looks like that crane thing was to get the old style anchors onto their recessed beds aft of the chain hawse, instead of letting them dangle. Later ships had the newer anchors they could just bring up tight against the hawse shaft.

        Reply
        1. AvatarBy Taylor Anderson on

          Yeah. That recessed bed was called the “billboard.” I sure would’ve hated to secure one of those anchors with that dopey crane while rolling or pitching in a choppy anchorage.

          Reply
          1. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

            I have to redo her again! I did the 4″ “wet” (submarine) mount, instead of the standard “dry” mount, because I’m a dumbass. The major difference being the sights on the wet mount are on top of the sight frame & the dry mount has them under it

  33. AvatarBy Drew on

    One thing I’ve wondered about small arms in universe. I’m guessing the UH is going to copy the Springfield as its next generation rifle to replace the Allin-Silvas, but will they still be chambered in 30 caliber? Though maybe with a heavyweight 200-220 grain bullet to help with dealing with the wildlife rather than the service standard 150gr. Or would they keep the 50-80 cartridge of the AS since its already in production and proven?

    Reply
    1. AvatarBy Generalstarwars333 on

      I would imagine they’d go with the normal. 30-06 round since it’s already in production for their .30 cal MGs.

      Reply
      1. AvatarBy donald j johnson on

        Hey starwars what you doing here arn’t you supposed to be shut down without access the entire summer 😉

        Reply
        1. AvatarBy Generalstarwars on

          Oh no, they’re onto me! *distant sirens are heard in the distance) LOL
          The reason I’m here is because I still have my school computer. I’m in a specialty center where we get an associate’s degree in the social sciences before our high school diploma, so I got to keep my school computer over the summer this year because I need it for the online college elective I’m taking. I also have other means of getting on here(the message about the .30-06 round was typed on my phone, for example), but generally the only time I lack a more enticing option(e.g. videogames or a book) is when I’m doing homework on my school computer. That’s when I procrastinate and go on this site and a few others.

          Reply
  34. AvatarBy Justin on

    Human/mi-anaaka ingenuity and Galla trees aside, how practical would a 800-foot ironclad actually be? Longest documented wooden ships in OTL were 400-500′ and even then many would flex in heavy weather.

    I’m guessing the Imperators are probably coppered like the Homes, and that would partially offset structural problems, but wouldn’t the Aratas have had some trouble? Or does the casemate absorb most of the wave action?

    Reply
    1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

      Well, they probably used a lot of metal to strengthen the structure.

      Reply
    2. AvatarBy Drew on

      I’d suspect the only thing that makes them or the Homes possible is the Galla trees being so strong. Diagonal bracing and 6 foot thick sides only go so far.

      It would be a neat engineering exercise to see what exactly you’d need to make one happen though.

      Reply
      1. Taylor AndersonBy Taylor Anderson (Post author) on

        Hi Drew! Actually, except for ships built for the initial “evacuation” of Madagascar, (probably actually considerably smaller), Galla trees weren’t available for their construction. On the other hand, without going back over some of the numerous examples, (sometimes in passing, I grant), of durable woods their descendants might use, design remained more critical to the structural integrity of Homes than the materials they were made of. They weren’t just diagonally braced, their timbers were diagonally cross-laminated in multiple layers.

        Reply
        1. AvatarBy Drew on

          Ok, I’m with you now.

          The image I had in my head was they were built like the Constitution, with diagonal bracing and extra thick bulwarks. What they actually sound like is the polar explorer ships on a massive scale, with multiple layers of diagonal and normal planking and bracing.

          Reply
          1. AvatarBy donald j johnson on

            And due to the cross lamentations they would be extreemly strong and if even 3 feet thick then would be nearly unsinkable as they would flex with the worst weather.

  35. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

    Another couple of nit picky questions:

    1. On the Clemson & Wickes DDs decks, between the #4 stack & the aft deck house, there are two groupings of what could be hatches, skylights, ICBM launch tubes for all I know. Does anyone with access to better/more detailed blueprints know what these are? I’m doing a deck plan for the Gray & since she’s based off the Walker, she might have something similar. Does she Taylor?

    2. Walker has one blower to pressurize two boiler rooms. Grey has eight boilers. Does she have one, two or more blowers? I’d assume at least two, possibly as many as four. This is also for the deck plan I’m doing.

    Reply
    1. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

      Also, does she have directors for the 4″/50s, or are they in local control? I put the 5.5″ director where the old 4″ one was on the bridge. If you’re agreeable, I’ll put one on each side of the midships deck house.

      I noticed some mistakes on my original drawing & will be correcting them in this version. The most egregious was my 4″ guns bearing little resemblance to the actual guns on the Walker.

      Reply
    2. AvatarBy Taylor Anderson on

      You may be referring to the deck access hatches to the engine rooms. They’re there for the firerooms, too. I think, during hard-earned lessons in redundancy, Spanky would’ve insisted on redundant blowers. The question remains, which I honestly haven’t even considered, is how many firerooms does Gray have? Two or four? I think, for similar reasons, she’d have four–but the fireroom/engineroom layout would remain the same, for her class. Later efforts would probably attempt to stagger them for further redundancy.

      Reply
      1. AvatarBy Taylor Anderson on

        And yes, Gray has directors for the 4″-50s. Those were copied as early as USS James Ellis. Each side of the amidships gun platform might work, or a single raised position between the stacks. Not the best for fore and aft work… I’ll consider that. There are not yet any anti-air directors and even the DP guns must go to local control for that. I think the question has been raised about rangefinders? The Impies have the optics to make them, but they’d probably be just as useless at speed on the new Wickes/Walker Class as they were on Walker and Mahan, unless they were buffered in some way. Vibration was always the issue that made them useless, so spotting ladders were employed from the start. Gray might actually be able to make use of an available rangefinder, but her crew would probably still use spotting ladders. The good thing, with their superior eyesight, a well-trained Lemurian fire control team might actually be better at range estimations than Greg Garrett was.

        Reply
        1. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

          If they went with simple copies, she probably has four boiler rooms. From your silhouette’s stack spacing, they appear to be eight in-line taking up a hull length of about 150′ (double Walker’s). This gives them more protection with compartments & fuel tanks outboard of the boiler rooms, but makes for very long steam lines from the forward boiler rooms. I’m going to give her four blowers (one for each boiler room) unless you say otherwise.

          There appears to be a range finder on the spotting top in the silhouette. That may be where the 4″ range finder was relocated to, to make room for the 5.5″ director? You’re right about the vibration though, especially up in a spotting top, waving around in the breeze, where every bit of a ship’s motion is amplified. If Amagi’s 4.7″ DP directors have been adapted to control the Gray’s 5.5″ DP’s, they could also be adapted to control the 4″/50 DPs using different ballistics tables. That’d be a quick way to get a DP secondary director & if it worked well enough, retrofit it to the DDs.

          Spotting Ladders? Is that similar to the Ladder Method of ranging salvos? Or is it an actual device?

          Reply
        2. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

          I’d go with two 4″ directors, one on each side of the mid-ships deck house. It gives them the ability to engage two targets at once with directed fire & the directors would have an increased action arc by being placed closer to the ship’s side.

          As far as fore & aft fire goes, only the stern 4″ has a direct line aft. The other mounts would be damaging the ship & concussing the crew if they fired directly forward or aft. They may have combined the Walker’s range finder & director in one unit to simplify things by the time Gray commissioned.

          Reply
      2. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

        ” I think, for similar reasons, she’d have four–”

        Well, considering that she is a product of more primitive tech than “Walker”, I would bet on four. Maybe even more, because her equipment would probably be bulky, underpowered and unreliable. IMHO, of course)

        Reply
        1. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

          Probably another reason he went with eight boilers for three turbines, instead of six. They weren’t sure of their boiler tech when designing & building Gray, so they gave her a little something extra to make up for any deficiencies.

          Reply
    3. AvatarBy donald johnson on

      I was wondering if any of the ships have any kind of medium rapid fire weapons. A 1 inch he could do wonders against any kind of wooden ship that the doms use. or phosphor incendiary’s. I suspect a one inch rifle would out range anything the doms have or at least be considerably more accurate at range. Set them on fire and they won’t be shooting at you.

      Reply
      1. AvatarBy Justin on

        Closest they’ve got is the Type 96s, and they’re still in R&D. That might change in a book or two.

        Reply
        1. AvatarBy Matt White on

          I also have a feeling that wooden ships are going to stop being a problem very soon. At least for the union their era has ended.

          Reply
          1. AvatarBy Justin on

            Yeah, from now on it’s ironclads or better.

  36. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

    Just out of curiosity & for future nit picking purposes, are the twin .50 cal MGs on the Gray air or water cooled. I think they’ve got the air cooled in production, but don’t know about the water cooled variant.

    Reply
        1. AvatarBy donald j johnson on

          Lou, you are so vehement about no spoilers then you go and try and trick taylor into giving one

          Reply
          1. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

            The Gray was already out there from ROB, but I see your point.
            On the other claw, I could care less about spoilers. I just bow to the will of the swarm.

    1. AvatarBy Taylor Anderson on

      Water cooled. All land, ship, and tank-borne MGs are water cooled. Some air-cooled versions are being installed on SOME aircraft.

      Reply
  37. AvatarBy Paul Smith on

    Just some random thoughts. To get ANY high altitude aircraft, they’ll have to develop an oxygen system the Lemurians can use. Just compressing the air would be a wasted effort. They should have a few spares for the P-40’s left, hopefully the demand regulators & masks for the O2 system would be some of them. Could they use something like vaseline to help seal a mask to their faces? With rubber becoming available, reproducing at least a modified mask should be possible. Next gen hulls should also be in the design pipeline. The Walker/ Mahan hull design is pretty dated. Maybe Spanky could get some smart ‘cats at BuShip to look at the goldplater designs he drew from memory. Plus they have Hidoiame’s carcass to look at.
    The next ship I’d like to see come through would be something like the Medusa (AR-1). Imagine the possibilities, with the knowledge and information the crew would have at their fingers!

    Reply
    1. AvatarBy Justin on

      If you’re willing to wade through the previous pages, there’s talk of regulators or even full-body flight suits.

      Book 7 mentioned the Farraguts as an inspiration; IMO they’d be best served by merging the Walker-class and the Gray-class into one 2000t DD hull and going from there.

      Reply
    2. AvatarBy Steve Moore on

      Funny, was thinking about my college football mouthguard when you mentioned rubber masks. Why not a ‘mask’ that goes inside the mouth, with an oxygen tube running up into it. Sort of like a scuba regulator. Think sub escape lungs had rubber mouthpieces too, but will leave that to the research experts here.

      See, Taylor, I can think about other things besides rockets.

      Reply
      1. AvatarBy Paul Smith on

        Didn’t the escape lungs also have clips for the nose?

        Reply
        1. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

          Lemurian noses may be too sensitive for clips, like a dog’s or cat’s nose.

          Reply
  38. AvatarBy Charles Simpson on

    We are currently having a discussion on this on the Destroyermen Fan Association page on Facebook. Current American Navy Clan carrier aircraft are probably unarmored or lightly armored. The crew of the Hidoiame might know of the “Kido Buti” or “Attack Force” with two or more carriers task groups opposed to the American single carrier taskforce of the early war known to Walker and Mahan’s crews. This may have some unfamiliar buzz words for future carrier tactics of the union. Sorry the video is by a German so the accent is a might thick at times: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8U3rkTXAlM&t=536s&fbclid=IwAR2gv2LiDd7x9Xh-mH3v0Y0lZ35kfz22bJ5bQ89bBFZ0oe2PnKQrgmhnm6k

    Reply
  39. AvatarBy Joseph R Thorsky on

    For all of you suits and skirts wannabees:

    Just a friendly “Lemmy Caution” and reminder that just
    as the LOT’s insertion hasn’t strictly followed historical norms
    it can justifiably be rightly assumed with a high degree of confidence
    that GB and the Commonwealth has also undergone a similar type of Taylor-
    made transformation.
    For Example: Suppose the Easter Rebellion had
    succeeded with a United Ireland dominating over a diminished British Monarchy.
    It would put the military powers/forces facing each other in the Atlantic and the Med in very similar circumstances/positions.
    Uncertainty, caution and paralysis in decision-making would be the predominant order of the day!

    Reply
    1. AvatarBy Joseph R. Thorsky on

      As Corrected
      For you suits and skirts and all youse “PC Correct” don’t ever wannabees:

      Just a friendly “Lemmy Caution” and reminder that just
      as the LOT’s insertion hasn’t strictly followed historical norms
      it can justifiably be rightly assumed with a high degree of confidence
      that GB and the Commonwealth has also undergone a similar type of Taylor-
      made transformation.
      For Example: Suppose the Easter Rebellion had
      succeeded with a United Ireland dominating over a politically diminished
      British Monarchy.
      It would put the military powers/forces facing each other in the Atlantic and
      the Med in very similar untenable circumstances/positions.
      Uncertainty, of the unknown automatically dictates caution and paralysis in decision-making
      which would likely be the predominant order of the day!
      Atrophy and discretion would be the end result.

      Happy Birth Day NUS!1

      Reply
  40. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

    One thing I would like to get clarified is regarding Savoie’s main battery. Is it 13.5″ (343mm) or 13.4″ (340mm)? In our world the Bretagne class ships had the 13.4″ (the French never did make a 13.5″). The French used the metric system & went with an even metric number, while the British using Imperial measurements of inches wind up with odd numbers in metric. Are we going with the thought that they armed the Bretagne class with 13.5″ guns in the AU the LOT came from?

    Reply
    1. AvatarBy Justin on

      That’s true, the other Bretagnes had 340mms. So either Mr. Anderson missed a decimal point somewhere, or the PFF Navy came to terms with numbers that weren’t multiples of five or ten.

      Reply
      1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

        …Sometimes I wonder: how long it would take for Americans to finally get rid of those “imperial” system? Seriously, there isn’t even any British Empire anymore)

        Reply
        1. AvatarBy Justin on

          In fairness, there’s a lot of stuff that’d need changing, and it’s a big country. Imagine needing to swap out almost every road sign in Moscow… or Siberia.

          Reply
          1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            Well, we done exactly that in 1917 (Russia used more traditional system before). And also modernized our grammar quite a bit)

        2. AvatarBy Charles Simpson on

          My guess is that screws will be the first crack in the dam of our stubbornness. Authoritarian countries find it easier to make sweeping changes too, even against popular will 😉

          Reply
          1. AvatarBy Alexey Shiro on

            Well, one of the (frankly, very limited) advantages of authoritarian rule, is that it sometimes allow government to pursue right decisions, not the ones that public loved)

        3. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

          Automotive & machinery wise, as far as nuts & bolts go, we’re already metric. When you see speed limit signs in kilometers per hour is when we’ve come fully over to the dark side.

          Reply
          1. AvatarBy Justin on

            Yeah, but then you’ve got satellites crashing into Mars because NASA’s engineers use metric and Lockheed Martin’s don’t.

          2. AvatarBy Taylor Anderson on

            The irony is, we started out “metric” as far as machine screws were concerned, copying French muskets. And US military arms stayed metric until the ‘03–when we finally said the hell with it and went “standard” probably because we were making so many P-14s for the Brits. Then everybody went metric and left us by ourselves again!! I think Bekiaa is right. .50 caliber just sounds better than 12…whatever mm. Oh, look forward to more of her griping about stuff like that.

          3. AvatarBy Paul Smith on

            you haven’t driven by Tucson, AZ have you?

          4. AvatarBy donald j johnson on

            Were the French already into metric during the revolutionary war? I had thought that they didn’t go metric until after their own revolution.

    2. AvatarBy Taylor Anderson on

      It is 240 mm. The 13.5 came from characters rounding off to “13 and a half’s” in dialogue. Like usual, CEs are sometimes too literal.

      Reply
    1. AvatarBy Steve Moore on

      My guess is that as designs and manufacturing become more complex, the harder it is to scratch up the capital to invest in a plant. Just a thought.

      Reply
    2. AvatarBy Joseph R. Thorsky on

      Lou:
      With little more than 5 weeks until Pass of Fire is published.
      The Prewar WWI and WWII development of Aviation resulted not just from an unrestricted form of free-market capitalism as epitomized by The Calvin Coolidge Era. Development only resulted from some vitally important series of events which were remarkably adaptive, innovative and transformative. We’re even now still being effected and affected by, and are living in the shadow of the decisionmakers and leaders of that era.
      Suggest for further study review and reference the following British periodicals (FYI-no relation to
      pteradactal or the pteranodon is either implied or intended.)
      1 Modern Wonders-Modern World
      2 Fantasy Collector
      3 Pulpdom and Argosy
      No Trip for Biscuits Here!

      Reply
  41. AvatarBy Justin on

    Finally got around to scanning my motorjet Fleashooter. No idea how much of it’s aluminum or wood or steel – or if it can even fly – just wanted to see what it looked like.

    https://imgur.com/8S3Hh2O

    Reply
  42. AvatarBy Generalstarwars on

    So we’ve established that the single shot 37mm AA gun on the U-boat would probably make an excellent tank and anti-tank gun for the union. I guess this leaves the question of how that should be carried out. How quickly can they start producing copies of this weapon? Should they try mounting some in their current tank designs, or design a purpose based carrier for it? Heck, could they maybe mount one in the nose of a Nancy or whatever strike aircraft will be replacing it to use in tank busting? How practical would it be to try and make an automatic version of this weapon for possible AA use?

    Reply
    1. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

      I think their current tanks are a bit small to handle the 37mm gun. A slightly larger tank with either a casemate or turret would be the way to go.
      The single shot version of the 37mm (if that’s what the U-boat has) would be fairly easy to reverse engineer.
      They’ll need a bigger plane to put it in than a Nancy. The gun itself weighs over 500 lbs. & the recoil would rip it right out of the fuselage.
      They could make an auto version of it, but it would take a while (1-3 years) to get it engineered, tested & the bugs worked out, but would be a good long term investment.

      Reply
      1. AvatarBy Justin on

        Baalkpan’s already busy on the Type 96, though. Pretty sure that logistically speaking it’s either one AA gun or the other.

        Reply
      2. AvatarBy Matt White on

        Given that the 37mm we are talking about is a single shot gun I don’t think it would be modified to automatic so as much as you would develop an entirely new gun that uses the same cartridge.

        Reply
      3. AvatarBy Steve Moore on

        Too heavy to put on a PT? Although a twin M2 mount would probably be more effective and already developed. Something sticks in my mind about this being a common modification to South Pacific USN PT’s, adding 37mm AT guns to use on Japanese barges.

        Reply
        1. AvatarBy Matt White on

          IRL 37mms were put on PTs by their crews. I think they got them from P-39s and the like.

          Reply
          1. AvatarBy Lou Schirmer on

            They were put on the 80′ boats as well as the occasional 40mm Bofors. The 37mm would be about as large as you could go on one of the DDmen MTBs, but it would fit…somewhere.

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